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Forums » New Bill: Broadband Is 2Mbps » Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't
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TKJunkMail
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Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

A law that would mandate better data collection of broadband penetration makes sense. But changing the law to label anything below 2/1 mbps speeds as not broadband is not productive. What would that accomplish? Will it make 3g/4g wireless providers suddenly up their upload speeds to something their infrastructure can't currently support. And all the locations, especially rural, where distance make 768 kbps DSL a good deal would no longer be broadband?

Obviously the cable companies are backing this because they feel they get an advantage over the telcos and wireless companies in the advertising game, if they can say that their service is broadband and the others aren't.

Anyway, the 2/1 part of the bill will never make it in to law.
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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

Or they would simply call their service "high speed internet" instead of broadband.

nixen
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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

A law that would mandate better data collection of broadband penetration makes sense. But changing the law to label anything below 2/1 mbps speeds as not broadband is not productive. What would that accomplish? Will it make 3g/4g wireless providers suddenly up their upload speeds to something their infrastructure can't currently support. And all the locations, especially rural, where distance make 768 kbps DSL a good deal would no longer be broadband?
It's a reflection of he relative nature of broadband. Given that the carriage capacity of the Internet has not remained static (e.g., when I first started using it, "the backbone" - NSFNet - was operating at sub-T1 speeds), it makes little sense for the definition of broadband to remain static.
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openbox9

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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

You can define the service however you'd like (you don't need a law to do this) so long as providers aren't mandated to provide said service.

nixen
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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

said by openbox9 See Profile :

You can define the service however you'd like (you don't need a law to do this) so long as providers aren't mandated to provide said service.
Providers are not mandated to provide the service. All it does is limits them on what they can legally call something that they sell.
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openbox9

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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

Then defining "broadband" is unneeded legislation. Less government is the way we be moving towards, not more bureaucracy.

nixen
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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

said by openbox9 See Profile :

Then defining "broadband" is unneeded legislation. Less government is the way we be moving towards, not more bureaucracy.
You're right. There should be no reason for the government to define standards for what a given product may be advertised as. A "beef" hotdog should be allowed to be comprised of goat rather than cow muscle.
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lesopp

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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

I'd feel more comfortable if the IETF or some such technical group defined broadband.

Given their track records over the past 30 years any congressional definition, of how fast something should be or how efficient something should be, lacks creditability.

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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

said by lesopp See Profile :

I'd feel more comfortable if the IETF or some such technical group defined broadband.

Given their track records over the past 30 years any congressional definition, of how fast something should be or how efficient something should be, lacks creditability.
Ok... So, you would turn over rule-making for domestic commerce to an international body that neither has that in their charter nor would likely want such responsibility.

At any rate, what would you consider to be a "fair" measurement of what broadband is? Would "1% of prevailing long-haul network technologies" be fair?
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lesopp

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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

I'm skeptical of anything defined by politicians, however, if the definition were authored by the scientific and engineering community I would feel differently.

It is not that I think 2/1 is unfair, rather I think it is arbitrary. Is there a engineering basis for 2/1, I would like a to know why not more or why not less.

It has nothing to do with commerce, which existed before there was a definition, it continued to exist with the current lame definition and it will continue to exist regardless of any congressional definition. Once they set the definition it will likely never change and 20 years from now there will be more political battles. Moving this into the realm of the IETF would depoliticize it.

I disagree that it not in their charter. Here's their mission statement:
The mission of the IETF is to produce high quality, relevant technical and engineering documents that influence the way people design, use, and manage the Internet in such a way as to make the Internet work better. These documents include protocol standards, best current practices, and informational documents of various kinds.

nixen
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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

said by lesopp See Profile :

It has nothing to do with commerce, which existed before there was a definition, it continued to exist with the current lame definition and it will continue to exist regardless of any congressional definition. Once they set the definition it will likely never change and 20 years from now there will be more political battles. Moving this into the realm of the IETF would depoliticize it.
Which is why I gave a formula-based definition as an example.

I disagree that it not in their charter. Here's their mission statement:
said by lesopp See Profile :

The mission of the IETF is to produce high quality, relevant technical and engineering documents that influence the way people design, use, and manage the Internet in such a way as to make the Internet work better. These documents include protocol standards, best current practices, and informational documents of various kinds.
However, nowhere in the above-quoted charter do they mention policy. They attempt to keep things as tech-oriented and neutral as any standards body is likely to succeed in doing. Taking on policy automatically invalidates neutrality.
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said by openbox9 See Profile :

Then defining "broadband" is unneeded legislation. Less government is the way we be moving towards, not more bureaucracy.
Yes they do need to define it and do it properly because the government gives out loans and grants for broadband deployment and guess what? they don't have to buy faster equipment so they don't and offer the super fast 512 package that is TEN TIMES faster than dialup.
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Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

I personally think it's time to stop comparing "broadband" or "High-speed internet" to dial up anyway...

The people behind the marketing have gotten stale. Since every commercial talks about how much faster their connection is to dial up, you'd think their biggest competition IS dial up.. now a days, phone goes after cable, and cable after phone. Very slooooowsky are they starting to compare themselves to each other.
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said by firephoto See Profile :

Yes they do need to define it and do it properly because the government gives out loans and grants for broadband deployment and guess what
That's another issue that should be addressed...the government shouldn't be handing out loans/grants for broadband deployment.
bolivian

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well verizon fios is 5/2 so this will be consider broadband too bad i don't have it

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said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

Obviously the cable companies are backing this because they feel they get an advantage over the telcos and wireless companies in the advertising game, if they can say that their service is broadband and the others aren't.
I've got no problem with that. Survival of the fittest. It is possible to run 1mb up on DSL to all but the extreme fringe. I don't give a rat's behind whether a cableco, a telco or a powerco gets it here.
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

But now all of the whiners out there complaining about telcos manipulating and purchasing legislation to gain the upper-hand will have to change their tune towards the cablecos if a law of this nature passes.
Ahrenl

join:2004-10-26
North Andover, MA

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

It sounds like you're saying telco's don't manipulate and purchase legislation? Do you seriously think that?
openbox9

join:2004-01-26
Alexandria, VA

Re: Data collection rules need upgrading; but 2/1 for BB doesn't

No, I said that all of the people whining about telcos will be able to do the same for cablecos without prejudice.
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