wifi4milez
In Need Of Garbage Pail Kids 1st Series
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| Getting rid of the unions would be a good thing!
If anyone seriously wants better service, lower prices, and an overall better experience the first thing they should do is give the union contracts the boot. Unions generally screw everything up, raise prices, and force everyone to submit to their "schedules and policies". Fairpoint should set a precedent by simply contracting with whoever offers the best price for a given job. This way the corrupt union can bid on projects just like everyone else. If they do well on a project good for them, if they bog an install down in weeks of red tape then they simply wont get the business the next time. Let them earn their money like the rest of us!
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я люблю Денди! |
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compnurd
Premium
join:2001-08-16
Concord, NC
clubs: | I agree with you on unions but fairpoint would suck up here |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| reply to wifi4milez
Never worked in a union, have you? Didn't think so. I have. Friend of mine just finished a union job, taking down a big chunk of a refinery in Philly. Worked all winter. 12 hours a day. Outside. 7 days a week. In all kinds of weather.
While you were inside, warm and comfy, listening to whatever squawking head you listen to, he was working. Hard. Harder than you probably have ever worked in your life.
Jeebus, some of you guys don't know nuthin' about nuthin'... |
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satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY | not to mention those cozy 40 hour workweeks. oh, and not having seven year olds dig coal. yeah, it's a bitch. |
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primeomega
join:2004-03-11
De Pere, WI
| reply to TScheisskopf
said by TScheisskopf  :Never worked in a union, have you? Didn't think so. I have. Friend of mine just finished a union job, taking down a big chunk of a refinery in Philly. Worked all winter. 12 hours a day. Outside. 7 days a week. In all kinds of weather. While you were inside, warm and comfy, listening to whatever squawking head you listen to, he was working. Hard. Harder than you probably have ever worked in your life. Jeebus, some of you guys don't know nuthin' about nuthin'... What does that have to do with a union? Unions where created to give power to the “little guy” so that “big business” would not walk all over them. In the past, unions where a great thing. But, with all the laws out now, they truly server no purpose. My father worked under one for years and each month paid his union dues. As he told me, the money he spent to be in one, never equaled what he got back. |
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AnnaS8
join:2005-05-26
Annapolis, MD
| reply to compnurd
I don't know...I wouldn't say I am for unions but generally union workers do better work. I have seen the difference between union and non union workers. My cousin had a union electrician come out and take a look at his breaker box and the guy yelled at him for having a rats nest. When the guy was done everything was tied off and looked 100 times better. He didn't charge him anything it was one of those friend of a friend type deals. You know one of those..."I will take a look at it for a case of beer" type deals. |
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JackBauer
join:2006-08-24
Schenectady, NY | Not to union bash here...
But aren't you getting at what is special about "licensed contractors" versus someone who happens to be in a union? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 20th, @01:03PM
| reply to TScheisskopf
Or brother. My violin plays for him. I have a friend in the elevator union and he brags about his triple OT, 6 hour days getting paid for 8-12, huge on call bonuses plus benefits.
My guess is your buddy was very WELL PAID to wear a coat this Winter.
Hard working union worker is a contradiction in terms. And it's not bashing...more power to 'em. Everyone should have it so easy but then we would be like France...an irrelevant economic mess.
As for doing better work...my local DMV office and public school system seem to prove unions don't equal better work. All it means is overpaid workers with little to no accountability for any crappy work they do.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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swintec
Premium
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME | reply to AnnaS8
Do better work huh? At what price does it come at? What kind of quality? Have you SEEN or read about the Big Dig in Boston? I'm sure GM doesnt share your same thoughts about Unions either. |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to TScheisskopf
Get a clue. Unions are powerless nowdays. You have allowed yourselves to fracture to the point that you can not even run a effective strike.
Look at the airlines. They get their concessions from the Unions and then a month later declare bankruptcy anyways and lay you guys off.
If the Airline unions had any balls they'd strike at all airlines and facilities. Then maybe someone would listen to you guys.
My dad was Union until an extended strike forced our family into bankruptcy and we had to move away from that job to make ends meet. I think I was probably 4 at the time and I still remember at least moving. Never found out why until my 20's.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
| If airline unions were stupid, they'd strike at all airlines and facilities.
A good parasite should know not to kill it's host.
When union greed kills their host (like the steel and auto industry) they're left with nothing. Unions are finally wising up and are starting to understand that if they let their greed get the better of themselves they croak along with their host.
The only unions that can get away with endless greed anymore is gov't unions because gov't has an unlimited supply of money (although they're having to borrow to get it).
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to NOCMan
said by NOCMan :Get a clue. Unions are powerless nowdays. You have allowed yourselves to fracture to the point that you can not even run a effective strike. Look at the airlines. They get their concessions from the Unions and then a month later declare bankruptcy anyways and lay you guys off. If the Airline unions had any balls they'd strike at all airlines and facilities. Then maybe someone would listen to you guys. The National Guard will force them to work, or be jail/shot, because of "national security". |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 20th, @02:51PM
| No they wouldn't. Air traffic controllers weren't. They were simply fired. The aerospace unions having learned their lesson from the steel and auto industry understand that there is simply no money to be had. The US airlines are just now posting profits again since 2001 and any union action now would mean the death of their host. In that event, everyone loses.
The unions should start buying up failing airlines and run them like credit unions. Take the profits made and divide it up between the workers. 2 things would happen...it works and everyone is happy. It doesn't and they realize running an airline ain't easy. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| reply to ColorBASIC
said by ColorBASIC :As for doing better work...my local DMV office and public school system seem to prove unions don't equal better work. All it means is overpaid workers with little to no accountability for any crappy work they do. With respect to the local school system, perhaps you should be looking at the quality of the children and the lack of parental involvement for why the teachers appear to be performing so poorly...
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Prove it... |
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VerizonCynic
join:2006-10-25
Lakewood, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to primeomega
People should not be allowed to be in unions once they hit a certain pay grade for the industry. Period.
Seondly public employees should never have been allowed to unionize. Due to this we now have huge pension deficits and all us taxpayers are going to get hosed on our retirement just to pay for these lazy ass pub. employees to get 90% of their salary and health bennies when they retire at 50-55 |
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PDXPLT
join:2003-12-04
Banks, OR
| reply to wifi4milez
said by wifi4milez :Fairpoint should set a precedent by simply contracting with whoever offers the best price for a given job. This way the corrupt union can bid on projects just like everyone else. If they do well on a project good for them, if they bog an install down in weeks of red tape then they simply wont get the business the next time. Let them earn their money like the rest of us! Yea, 'sounds great except for that pesky National Labor Relations Act. Once the employees vote for a union, the union gains monopoly power in supplying labor to Fairpoint, and Fairpoint just has to eat it. No more firing lousy performers, or paying high performers more. Everyone gets seniority-based pay, as the unions carry out hteir #1 mission - protecting mediocracy. |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to ColorBASIC
There's a difference. We do not allow cheap foreign airlines to fly our commuter routes.
The Auto industry failed because they paid their employees way too much. 65 dollars an hour to affix doors on a car?
Foreign autoplants are going all robotic and their employees are getting good pay (They fix the robots) and require fewer of them.
American cars are plain by any standard, lack features that people clearly want at a price point that Americans are able to afford.
Another clue why they're doomed to failure.
Look at these new E85 stickers on the back of cars. Oh yea what cars. Nope you only see them on the backs of those huge SUVs and Trucks and not the cheap ones. They clearly want to protect their high margin vehicles rather than help with the oil problem. That and look at Toyota and some Indian company who will be introducing sub 3000.00 cars into the US auto market.
I'll buy American, I remember when wal-mart was big on that. However when American means I'm buying high priced crap I'll pass and give my money to some company that actually gives a damn.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 20th, @10:52PM
| A lot of GM's and Ford's cars and light trucks are available with flexfuel (E85) engines. Problem is you can't get E85 anywhere other than the plain-states so they aren't going to put them in their smaller vehicles. So for now FFV is marketed primarily to fleet owners (who don't buy or use small cars). They both make tons of CNG vehicles for fleet use as well. For the masses Ford was first to market with a hybrid SUV and Chevrolet the first to market with a hybrid full size truck and hybrid full size SUV. Saturn will be first to market with a hybrid cross-over SUV. But you'll never see media coverage of this stuff. The oil argument doesn't fly as GM puts out more models that get better than 30 MPG than ANY other car maker. However people still see GM as the gas guzzler maker.
As far as vehicles people don't want, this is contradicted by sales numbers. US small truck sales alone are about the same as the next 7 top cars combined. In 2006 Ford sold more F-Series trucks than Toyota sold Camrys, Solaras and Corolla's combined. So it's not volume that is hurting the industry and it's not the product they make.
I do agree it's the labor costs that are hurting these companies, moreover it's legacy labor costs. It's the money being spent on laborers who no longer produce anything.
If you think American cars suck, that's a different argument. I'm just looking at the numbers which clearly say American vehicles are selling well, there's just no margin in them because of these legacy costs.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to bmn
said by bmn :said by ColorBASIC :As for doing better work...my local DMV office and public school system seem to prove unions don't equal better work. All it means is overpaid workers with little to no accountability for any crappy work they do. With respect to the local school system, perhaps you should be looking at the quality of the children and the lack of parental involvement for why the teachers appear to be performing so poorly... Then why don't the teachers say that instead of saying they need more money for pay? All I hear in Baltimore City Public Schools is the need for higher pay for teachers. If they would say publicly the problem is parents, then I could see asking for more money. |
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27
Levittown, PA
| reply to swintec
Whoa. I'm not a fan of bad unions, but most CWA folks I've met (and worked with) are smarter lot. Think about the guy (gal) that has to be out on a pole, during a rain storm to keep your service running, at 4am. You'll balk that they get OT. And why not? The sub-contractors that are NOT union are doing a poor job, and the higher payed (and thinned out) union techs fix their mess.
OP- you missed the POINT of the subject: Verizon's Bean Counters have found a tax loophole and would jeopardize workers, customers and service just for a taxbreak! Nothing like screwing an economy (in the long term) for a short-term profit under the name of the shareholder.
Yeah. Blame the worker, not the boss. Troll troll troll your boatt... |
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