TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| reply to wifi4milez
Re: Getting rid of the unions would be a good thing!
Never worked in a union, have you? Didn't think so. I have. Friend of mine just finished a union job, taking down a big chunk of a refinery in Philly. Worked all winter. 12 hours a day. Outside. 7 days a week. In all kinds of weather.
While you were inside, warm and comfy, listening to whatever squawking head you listen to, he was working. Hard. Harder than you probably have ever worked in your life.
Jeebus, some of you guys don't know nuthin' about nuthin'... |
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satellite68
join:2007-04-11
Louisville, KY | not to mention those cozy 40 hour workweeks. oh, and not having seven year olds dig coal. yeah, it's a bitch. |
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primeomega
join:2004-03-11
De Pere, WI
| reply to TScheisskopf
said by TScheisskopf  :Never worked in a union, have you? Didn't think so. I have. Friend of mine just finished a union job, taking down a big chunk of a refinery in Philly. Worked all winter. 12 hours a day. Outside. 7 days a week. In all kinds of weather. While you were inside, warm and comfy, listening to whatever squawking head you listen to, he was working. Hard. Harder than you probably have ever worked in your life. Jeebus, some of you guys don't know nuthin' about nuthin'... What does that have to do with a union? Unions where created to give power to the “little guy” so that “big business” would not walk all over them. In the past, unions where a great thing. But, with all the laws out now, they truly server no purpose. My father worked under one for years and each month paid his union dues. As he told me, the money he spent to be in one, never equaled what he got back. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 20th, @01:03PM
| reply to TScheisskopf
Or brother. My violin plays for him. I have a friend in the elevator union and he brags about his triple OT, 6 hour days getting paid for 8-12, huge on call bonuses plus benefits.
My guess is your buddy was very WELL PAID to wear a coat this Winter.
Hard working union worker is a contradiction in terms. And it's not bashing...more power to 'em. Everyone should have it so easy but then we would be like France...an irrelevant economic mess.
As for doing better work...my local DMV office and public school system seem to prove unions don't equal better work. All it means is overpaid workers with little to no accountability for any crappy work they do.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to TScheisskopf
Get a clue. Unions are powerless nowdays. You have allowed yourselves to fracture to the point that you can not even run a effective strike.
Look at the airlines. They get their concessions from the Unions and then a month later declare bankruptcy anyways and lay you guys off.
If the Airline unions had any balls they'd strike at all airlines and facilities. Then maybe someone would listen to you guys.
My dad was Union until an extended strike forced our family into bankruptcy and we had to move away from that job to make ends meet. I think I was probably 4 at the time and I still remember at least moving. Never found out why until my 20's.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
| If airline unions were stupid, they'd strike at all airlines and facilities.
A good parasite should know not to kill it's host.
When union greed kills their host (like the steel and auto industry) they're left with nothing. Unions are finally wising up and are starting to understand that if they let their greed get the better of themselves they croak along with their host.
The only unions that can get away with endless greed anymore is gov't unions because gov't has an unlimited supply of money (although they're having to borrow to get it).
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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patcat88
join:2002-04-05
Jamaica, NY
| reply to NOCMan
said by NOCMan :Get a clue. Unions are powerless nowdays. You have allowed yourselves to fracture to the point that you can not even run a effective strike. Look at the airlines. They get their concessions from the Unions and then a month later declare bankruptcy anyways and lay you guys off. If the Airline unions had any balls they'd strike at all airlines and facilities. Then maybe someone would listen to you guys. The National Guard will force them to work, or be jail/shot, because of "national security". |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 20th, @02:51PM
| No they wouldn't. Air traffic controllers weren't. They were simply fired. The aerospace unions having learned their lesson from the steel and auto industry understand that there is simply no money to be had. The US airlines are just now posting profits again since 2001 and any union action now would mean the death of their host. In that event, everyone loses.
The unions should start buying up failing airlines and run them like credit unions. Take the profits made and divide it up between the workers. 2 things would happen...it works and everyone is happy. It doesn't and they realize running an airline ain't easy. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
 ·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| reply to ColorBASIC
said by ColorBASIC :As for doing better work...my local DMV office and public school system seem to prove unions don't equal better work. All it means is overpaid workers with little to no accountability for any crappy work they do. With respect to the local school system, perhaps you should be looking at the quality of the children and the lack of parental involvement for why the teachers appear to be performing so poorly...
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Prove it... |
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VerizonCynic
join:2006-10-25
Lakewood, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to primeomega
People should not be allowed to be in unions once they hit a certain pay grade for the industry. Period.
Seondly public employees should never have been allowed to unionize. Due to this we now have huge pension deficits and all us taxpayers are going to get hosed on our retirement just to pay for these lazy ass pub. employees to get 90% of their salary and health bennies when they retire at 50-55 |
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NOCMan
Verizon Fios User
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Flower Mound, TX
| reply to ColorBASIC
There's a difference. We do not allow cheap foreign airlines to fly our commuter routes.
The Auto industry failed because they paid their employees way too much. 65 dollars an hour to affix doors on a car?
Foreign autoplants are going all robotic and their employees are getting good pay (They fix the robots) and require fewer of them.
American cars are plain by any standard, lack features that people clearly want at a price point that Americans are able to afford.
Another clue why they're doomed to failure.
Look at these new E85 stickers on the back of cars. Oh yea what cars. Nope you only see them on the backs of those huge SUVs and Trucks and not the cheap ones. They clearly want to protect their high margin vehicles rather than help with the oil problem. That and look at Toyota and some Indian company who will be introducing sub 3000.00 cars into the US auto market.
I'll buy American, I remember when wal-mart was big on that. However when American means I'm buying high priced crap I'll pass and give my money to some company that actually gives a damn.
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Mac Chatter
»www.macchatter.net |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
May 20th, @10:52PM
| A lot of GM's and Ford's cars and light trucks are available with flexfuel (E85) engines. Problem is you can't get E85 anywhere other than the plain-states so they aren't going to put them in their smaller vehicles. So for now FFV is marketed primarily to fleet owners (who don't buy or use small cars). They both make tons of CNG vehicles for fleet use as well. For the masses Ford was first to market with a hybrid SUV and Chevrolet the first to market with a hybrid full size truck and hybrid full size SUV. Saturn will be first to market with a hybrid cross-over SUV. But you'll never see media coverage of this stuff. The oil argument doesn't fly as GM puts out more models that get better than 30 MPG than ANY other car maker. However people still see GM as the gas guzzler maker.
As far as vehicles people don't want, this is contradicted by sales numbers. US small truck sales alone are about the same as the next 7 top cars combined. In 2006 Ford sold more F-Series trucks than Toyota sold Camrys, Solaras and Corolla's combined. So it's not volume that is hurting the industry and it's not the product they make.
I do agree it's the labor costs that are hurting these companies, moreover it's legacy labor costs. It's the money being spent on laborers who no longer produce anything.
If you think American cars suck, that's a different argument. I'm just looking at the numbers which clearly say American vehicles are selling well, there's just no margin in them because of these legacy costs.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to bmn
said by bmn :said by ColorBASIC :As for doing better work...my local DMV office and public school system seem to prove unions don't equal better work. All it means is overpaid workers with little to no accountability for any crappy work they do. With respect to the local school system, perhaps you should be looking at the quality of the children and the lack of parental involvement for why the teachers appear to be performing so poorly... Then why don't the teachers say that instead of saying they need more money for pay? All I hear in Baltimore City Public Schools is the need for higher pay for teachers. If they would say publicly the problem is parents, then I could see asking for more money. |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | reply to NOCMan
Speaking of Wal-Mart, I would be suprised if 10% of the stuff they sell is made anywhere but China.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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emptywig
Huh? What?
Premium
join:2002-08-05
Pasadena, TX | True, but there was a time - honestly, there really was - when Walmart's biggest selling point was that they sold stuff that was actually made in the USA.
wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox |
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ieolus
Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19
Duluth, GA | I believe you, but that isn't the last 10 years. If you want to look at what really is wrong with America, look first to Wal-Mart.
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"Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| reply to moonpuppy
said by moonpuppy :said by bmn :said by ColorBASIC :As for doing better work...my local DMV office and public school system seem to prove unions don't equal better work. All it means is overpaid workers with little to no accountability for any crappy work they do. With respect to the local school system, perhaps you should be looking at the quality of the children and the lack of parental involvement for why the teachers appear to be performing so poorly... Then why don't the teachers say that instead of saying they need more money for pay? All I hear in Baltimore City Public Schools is the need for higher pay for teachers. If they would say publicly the problem is parents, then I could see asking for more money. Well, if I was working as hard as they do, as much out of the workplace as they have to, I'd be jumping up and down for more money, especially when you factor in how crappy their pay is in the grand scheme. They perform one of the most important jobs, far more important than that of CEOs and athletes (where do you think those people get their education, hmm ?), and get paid a pittance.
And you probably don't hear them saying it is the parents and children that are a part of the problem because it doesn't work for them and it doesn't make for good press. If they go out and say that the parents are one of the biggest reasons their kids of doing so poorly, it looks like they are deflecting blame. Problem is that I know a couple of teachers and they will tell you that schools have basically become day cares and that parents don't instill any discipline in their children anymore, which disrupts the learning process for all children.
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Prove it... |
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krayzie bone
join:2006-09-03
Marietta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to ColorBASIC
"GM puts out more models that get better than 30 MPG than ANY other car maker. However people still see GM as the gas guzzler maker."
lmao that's the same stuff that they say on their commercials ahahahahhaah...are you sure you don't work for GM?
Even IF GM does have more models that get 30 mpg, how many models do they have that don't? And GM owns several companies, including: chevy, saturn, pontiac, buick, GMC, cadillac, hummer, opel, saab, vauxhall, and daewoo. Of course they are going to have more MODELS that have 30 mpg, when they own 11 different branches! They put the same engine in different lineups of cars to sell them as luxury, affordable, economy etc. American car manufacturers have ALWAYS been inferior compared to their Japenese brethren. 30 years ago american car manufacturers only competed with other american car manufacturers. The short, sweet success that they experienced, they thought would last forever. Hence the broken promises of today. They simply can't compete on cost, value, mileage, etc. |
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