Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18370131 en Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:56:34 EDT Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:56:34 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18372078 calvoiper :
said by decadent See Profile :

I am not sure how it helps an investor or former employee of Enron, that they were prosecuted. Most people care about lost money or jobs and do not care much about getting even.
OK, the investors (stockholders) are the ones who elect corporate management? WHO ELSE would you have shoulder the risk of bad acts? You want the government to guarantee that your stock investments will not lose value?

Far more money was "lost" than was recoverable as "stolen", but this is common in any crime--you may find the guy that got $35 for the CD player he stole from your car, but you can't extract the $850 to repair the damage he did in stealing it because he doesn't have it. Likewise with Enron, etc., tons more money was lost covering the crimes than was "stolen" and recoverable from the crooks.

Who should bear the risk of this? If not the owners (stockholders), then who? I sure don't want government to be the insurer of your stocks any more than I want them to insure your dashboard.

calvoiper
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VoIP--the death knell of remaining voice monopolies!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18372078 Mon, 21 May 2007 16:15:34 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371394 PhoenixDown : Yes but my compensation and pay package includes a 401k match. In previous years that match was for any fund within our 401k portfolio but its now only for our company stock as mentioned.

Talk to my CEO and see if he is willing to either increase my pay by the missing match or is willing to to have our 401k invested in a broader range of funds.
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Mass Transit Sucks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371394 Mon, 21 May 2007 14:11:44 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371201 pnh102 :
said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

Compelled? No - but its one of the few retirement vehicles left after the death of pensions.
How so? There are plenty of funds outside of work into which people can invest for retirement.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371201 Mon, 21 May 2007 13:38:11 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371192 PhoenixDown :
said by pnh102 See Profile
You still have to sign up for the program. We have had such 401ks at my old jobs and I was never compelled to enroll in those plans.
[/BQUOTE :

Compelled? No - but its one of the few retirement vehicles left after the death of pensions.
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Mass Transit Sucks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371192 Mon, 21 May 2007 13:36:38 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371115 pnh102 :
said by emptywig See Profile :

The number of non-employee investors in Enron was MUCH MUCH higher than the number of employees who were invested.
But again, doesn't this prove that people who invest should keep an eye into which companies their funds invest?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371115 Mon, 21 May 2007 13:22:27 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371108 pnh102 :
said by soccerguy See Profile :

You are fairly ignorant on the issues concerning investors, employees, and trading counterparties of Enron if that is what you believe.
So why don't you enlighten us as to what really happened?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371108 Mon, 21 May 2007 13:21:28 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371104 pnh102 :
said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

Not every one is given a choice with their 401k... many companies force you to invest in the company stock until the shares mature.
You still have to sign up for the program. We have had such 401ks at my old jobs and I was never compelled to enroll in those plans.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18371104 Mon, 21 May 2007 13:20:54 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370729 emptywig : As a raging moderate who despises the extremes of the left and the right, I would agree that Sarbox has had unintended consequences and needs to be revisited. Like so many other really important and far-reaching laws that have been passed in the last eight years, it was written and rushed through much much too quickly and without the careful and deliberate consideration it warranted.

There needs to be some accountability, but the law as written is going to bite us on the ass.

wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370729 Mon, 21 May 2007 12:21:54 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370695 emptywig : The number of non-employee investors in Enron was MUCH MUCH higher than the number of employees who were invested.

I wasn't an employee of Enron, and I didn't have my entire stock investment in Enron, but that doesn't change the fact that I lost all the money that I did have committed to it. And I lost it, not because of capricious market circumstances, but because of wrongdoing on the part of the corporate leadership.

If the captain runs the ship into an iceberg and everyone drowns, you don't blame the passengers because they didn't bring their own survival suit.

wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370695 Mon, 21 May 2007 12:14:58 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370659 emptywig : In the absence of their money, I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find me an Enron employee who didn't take SOME comfort, and perhaps no small amount of glee, from seeing the people who stole that money go to jail.

wig
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Sometimes a paradox is just a paradox]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370659 Mon, 21 May 2007 12:04:24 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370641 soccerguy : You are fairly ignorant on the issues concerning investors, employees, and trading counterparties of Enron if that is what you believe.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370641 Mon, 21 May 2007 12:00:52 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370591 viperlmw : Beating up on Sarbanes-Oxley is a typical Right Wing attack on consumers, and doesn't have any significant impact on a company like Alltel. There are those that are just unhappy that the free ride on the backs of the consumer is over.

Flame away!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370591 Mon, 21 May 2007 11:50:29 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370583 PhoenixDown : Not every one is given a choice with their 401k... many companies force you to invest in the company stock until the shares mature.
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Mass Transit Sucks!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370583 Mon, 21 May 2007 11:48:31 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370206 Jim Gurd : SOX sux. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370206 Mon, 21 May 2007 10:27:30 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370175 pnh102 :
said by decadent See Profile :

Most people care about lost money or jobs and do not care much about getting even.
What happened to the investors was simply a bad case of not following common-sense investment advice. No one in their right mind should have their entire retirement portfolio invested in a single stock. If that means having to skip using your own company's 401k plan, then you do it.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370175 Mon, 21 May 2007 10:20:18 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370166 decadent : I am not sure how it helps an investor or former employee of Enron, that they were prosecuted. Most people care about lost money or jobs and do not care much about getting even. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370166 Mon, 21 May 2007 10:17:47 EDT Re: Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370131 pnh102 :
said by TKJunkMail See Profile :

The passing of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarbanes-Oxley_Act after the Enron fiasco has been part of the reason for all these companies going private. The requirements of that act has made it more cost effective for a company to get off the stock market and go private.
Sarbox has to rank among the most useless of legislation ever signed into law. There was simply no need for it. All of the people involved in the Enron fiasco, as well as in other corporate accounting scandals, were prosecuted just fine under existing laws. At best, Sarbox will simply move the fraud outside of the scope of the regulating authorities.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370131 Mon, 21 May 2007 10:10:38 EDT Yet one more company going private; out of reach of SEC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18370087 TKJunkMail : There has been a spate of companies going private recently, taking them out of the realm of public scrutiny of their finances.

This is good if the company uses that deemphasis from Wall St on quarterly results to make better long term decisions for the business.

But it could also be negative if the private equity owners use the lack of oversight to loot the assets and sell off pieces of the company. In that case the companies customers will be getting poorer service for their money.

The passing of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act after the Enron fiasco has been part of the reason for all these companies going private. The requirements of that act has made it more cost effective for a company to get off the stock market and go private.
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