CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO | reply to jester121
Re: Scientific fact > hysteria
BZZZZZT!
Oh, I'm sorry, but thank you for playing.
We have some lovely parting gifts for you.
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
|
jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
 ·ViaTalk
| Ummm.. there ARE options out there besides gargling the Kool-Aid of the Week you know...
»www.stuff.co.nz/timaruherald/406···571.html
»epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?···ssue_id=
There's plenty more out there -- are you willing to read and analyze both sides of the story, or just accept what's splashed around the headlines? |
|
CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO
| Oh my god, you've shown me the light!
The veil has been lifted, and now I see!
Look what else I found on the internets:
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/holohoax.htm
Thank you so much for showing me that The Truth is Out There, because I Want to Believe!
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
|
karthwyne
join:2003-04-27
Atlanta, GA
 ·AT&T Southeast
edit:
May 21st, @10:56AM
| reply to jester121
i bet that there are plenty more "articles" like that out there: NEITHER one of them gives any facts nor debunks any facts, they are total propaganda.
will there be climatic Armageddon in 5 years, of course not; will the skeptics have any more proof one way or the other in five years, also no.
and a list of people who believe a certain thing does not make it so, however much you might wish it did. just look at religion, millions and millions of people believe completely contradictory things. i am sure we could compile lists of scientists that are christian, muslim, pagan, Buddhist, agnostic, and atheist, but that doesn't prove anything. |
|
jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk
| reply to CrazyFingers
It's truly amazing that otherwise rational people are afflicted with brain freeze when anyone questions their views on climate change.
Isn't this all about science? Isn't questioning things the very basis of science? Why are people so willing to believe that there is only one possibility, and it's theirs? Sounds more like religious fanaticism than science to me.
Environmentalist bigotry is perfectly acceptable these days, but that still doesn't make it sane. |
|
jester121
join:2003-08-09
Lake Zurich, IL
·ViaTalk
| reply to karthwyne
said by karthwyne  :...and a list of people who believe a certain thing does not make it so, however much you might wish it did. Sorry, I have to get the buzzer out now. Aren't we told over and over that climate change is a fact, because "all the world's top scientists believe it"?
You've illustrated my point perfectly, thanks.  |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| said by jester121 :Aren't we told over and over that climate change is a fact, because "all the world's top scientists believe it"? Heh... wasn't it only 500 years ago that all of the world's top scientists were telling us that the world was flat too?
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
|
CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO
| reply to jester121
said by jester121 :It's truly amazing that otherwise rational people are afflicted with brain freeze when anyone questions their views on climate change Intelligent Design. Isn't this all about science? Isn't questioning things the very basis of science? Why are people so willing to believe that there is only one possibility, and it's theirs? Sounds more like religious atheist fanaticism than science to me. Environmentalist Darwinian bigotry is perfectly acceptable these days, but that still doesn't make it sane. I mean...as long as you're cooking up lists of people that claim to believe crackpot drivel supported by a couple of websites, we might as well toss IDers into the soup.
I'd love to hear your theories on the constitutionality of Federal income taxes.
And what about chupacabras?
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
|
CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO
| reply to pnh102
Sorry, but 500 years ago, there was nobody that could even remotely be considered a "scientist" by modern standards. Those who tried were typically threatened with a nice dry stack of kindling until they "remembered" that the sun orbited the Earth and witches floated because they were made of wood.
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
|
karthwyne
join:2003-04-27
Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
edit:
May 21st, @07:36PM
| reply to jester121
actually, i have never heard that as a reason to believe in global warming, only the bush administration, ie your .gov website, has used that tactic to say why we shouldn't.
personally i like to follow the scientific method and base ideas on logic and fact.
like the ice core samples that show we should be on a cooling cycle in global temperature based on historical record and instead are warming.
like the fact that the polar ice caps are forming 2+ weeks later than they used to, and melting 2+ weeks sooner killing numerous polar bears by starvation.
or in response to the volcano argument, yes, there have been volcano eruptions, and eruptions that caused massive global warming and mass extinction, but we also had 2x the amount of rain forest, and probably a good 100x the amount of temperate forest. just compare the temperatures in a city with the country and you will see the affects man has made on a smaller scale. when europeans first made it to north america, it is said a squirrel could traverse from the atlantic to the pacific without touching the ground as the continent was covered in forests.
and to the guy in black mountain, NC, i'm sure you can smell the paper factory in canton some days, you think that is natural? would you rather drink the water upstream or downstream from them? |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| reply to CrazyFingers
said by CrazyFingers :Sorry, but 500 years ago, there was nobody that could even remotely be considered a "scientist" by modern standards. And how can you say that someone who is a scientist today by modern standards will be looked upon as such 500 years from now?
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
|
CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO | Now now pnh106, we both know that is an absurd statement.
We'll all be dead in 500 years after the arctic icecaps melt and the polar bears descend on us in a feeding frenzy.
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| said by CrazyFingers :Now now pnh106 (sic), we both know that is an absurd statement. Why? You just said the same thing about the "scientists" of old. I am extending your statement to the scientists of new. Science certainly isn't dead as an academic discipline, and for us to assume that we "know everything" is silly and dangerous. To quote one such scientist, "we do not know, what we don't know."
My main problem with simply "going with the consensus" on any subject is that it discourages academic review. It is just as bad as answering every scientific question with the response "God did it." Without review and challenging of accepted scientific principles, how will we know that they are valid or not?
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
|
CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO | *sigh*...
I had hoped that the sarcasm in the second sentence would have made the same in the first sentence obvious.
I over-estimated you. I'm sorry, I promise it won't happen again.
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
|
pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| said by CrazyFingers :I over-estimated you. You misunderestimated me
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
|
DufiefData
join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD
| reply to CrazyFingers
That's an interesting question actually, since income taxes were unconstitutional until the Sixteenth Amendment. It certainly doesn't seem that the Founders of the country could have ever imagined an income tax, so it really does raise some thorny issues of original intent. |
|
CrazyFingers
join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO | reply to pnh102
Well, as long as you don't take the nukular option...
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl... |
|
DufiefData
join:2006-06-13
Gaithersburg, MD
| reply to karthwyne
Maybe global warming is happening. Maybe it's not. Here's a perspective from a climate scientist in New Zealand:
Global warming debunked
By ANDREW SWALLOW - The Timaru Herald | Saturday, 19 May 2007
Climate change will be considered a joke in five years time, meteorologist Augie Auer told the annual meeting of Mid Canterbury Federated Farmers in Ashburton this week.
Man's contribution to the greenhouse gases was so small we couldn't change the climate if we tried, he maintained.
"It is time to attack the myth of global warming," he said.
Water vapour was responsible for 95 per cent of the greenhouse effect, an effect which was vital to keep the world warm, he explained.
.....
The other greenhouse gases: carbon dioxide, methane, nitrogen dioxide, and various others including CFCs, contributed only five per cent of the effect, carbon dioxide being by far the greatest contributor at 3.6 per cent.
However, carbon dioxide as a result of man's activities was only 3.2 per cent of that, hence only 0.12 per cent of the greenhouse gases in total. Human-related methane, nitrogen dioxide and CFCs etc made similarly minuscule contributions to the effect: 0.066, 0.047 and 0.046 per cent respectively.
.....
"We couldn't do it (change the climate) even if we wanted to because water vapour dominates."
......
"It's become a witch-hunt; a Salem witch-hunt," he said. |
|
karthwyne
join:2003-04-27
Atlanta, GA
·AT&T Southeast
| i don't know if you realize that is the first article that was posted for the "no such thing as global warming" earlier, but it does not reference any actual studies.
but regardless, his argument is flawed. yes, without greenhouse gases the planet would be just like outer space, scorching on the sun facing side, and almost absolute zero on the dark side (that's -459.67°F), so if we take a temperature range of 500°, that means that even his admitted numbers add up to a change of +1.395°. that kind of temperature change in the ocean means 10x the number and violence of storms. I don't believe that his numbers are realistic though.
besides, his argument is like saying that adding adding a drop of ricin to a glass of pure water is harmless because it is still 99.999% water. |
|
Anubis Prime
join:2001-06-01
Indianola, PA
 ·Comcast
| reply to CrazyFingers
AND...I suppose we with our combustion engines, etc. are causing the temperature on Mars and the rest of the solar system to rise in unison.
Most people have no doubt that global warming is happening. We just disagree with the largely unproven notion that mankind is the major contributor to the problem. I would more believe that the great ball of burning gas in the sky has a great bit of culpability. Really, IMHO (and that's all it is) the population is starting to grow wise to this scam being perpetrated upon us. This is why there is such a big media push behind the global warming movement. (One last hurrah before global cooling begins. AND that would be a disaster because then many of these radical far-left leaning organizations would not be able to control CO2 production--thus not be able to control the means of production. For in an industrialized nation, there are very few economic activities that do not produce CO2. Poor Al Gore wouldn't be able to sell any carbon credits.)
Time's almost up... and time will tell.
I also love those graphs depicting rising CO2 levels and their effect on temperature (PSST...what they don't tell you is they are backwards on cause and effect. With higher temperatures come higher CO2 measurements, not the other way around--a bit "Inconvenient" for some people.)
Wow--another thought: Water vapor is a major greenhouse gas. How do we stop water from evaporating?
For some it is a way to make us, as a civilization, feel important somehow when really we are just specks of dust along for the ride. OR is there a bigger more sinister reason that is oblivious to even those who are followers to the cause? There is a true Lord of the Sith--and it's not the bumbling dolt known as George Bush. He is the financier of all things left. His first name though, is also George. 
AND for the last time: CO2 is not a pollutant--it's plant food!
--
The most dangerous place in America to be is a "Gun-Free Zone". We protect our money with armed guards...How about our schoolchildren? |
|
