  TK Junk Mail Go ahead, make my day Premium join:2002-03-03 Margate City, NJ clubs:
·Comcast
edit: May 21st, @01:24PM
| reply to bigjimc Re: WOW 7-2
said by bigjimc :Who was a plaintiff attorney? Mickey Mouse? or Was it that cut and dry? (But not unanimous) It was that cut and dry. The only justices dissenting were Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Paul Stevens. These are the two leftist anti-corporate justices on the court who vote against corporate interests on every single vote.
Basically, the plaintiffs said that because the Baby Bells didn't go in to competitors neighborhoods and lay parallel wiring to each home that that was proof of collusion. The claim was ridiculous on its face. Doing that would never return a profit. No wonder the Bells came to that conclusion independently. And that is how the court decided. -- -- Internet News My BLOG My Web Page |
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  John Galt Premium join:2004-09-30 Oceanside, OR
| said by TK Junk Mail :Basically, the plaintiffs said that because the Baby Bells didn't go in to competitors neighborhoods and lay parallel wiring to each home that that was proof of collusion. Lack of proof that a conspiracy exists is, in fact, PROOF that the conspiracy exists.
This is one of the first fundamental concepts that they teach on the first day of Conspiracy 101.
 -- A is A |
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 nasadude
join:2001-10-05 Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TK Junk Mail said by TK Junk Mail :... These are the two leftist anti-corporate justices on the court who vote against corporate interests on every single vote... you mean the pro-consumer justices?
said by TK Junk Mail :...Basically, the plaintiffs said that because the Baby Bells didn't go in to competitors neighborhoods and lay parallel wiring to each home that that was proof of collusion. The claim was ridiculous on its face. Doing that would never return a profit. No wonder the Bells came to that conclusion independently. And that is how the court decided. Wow. So laying parallel wiring to each home "would never return a profit"? Is that why the ILECs want any competitors to do that and not have to share the existing lines? So the FCC pushing "facilities based competition" is really just a sham, because it "would never return a profit" for competitors?
You didn't think very hard before you wrote that did you? Because that one statement completely shows the fallacy of the current FCC policy of pushing facilities based competition and allowing the ILECs to get away with not sharing their lines. |
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  T1 Rocky
join:2002-11-15 Dallas, TX
·tw telecom
·ygnitionnet
| reply to TK Junk Mail said by TK Junk Mail :said by bigjimc :Basically, the plaintiffs said that because the Baby Bells didn't go in to competitors neighborhoods and lay parallel wiring to each home that that was proof of collusion. The claim was ridiculous on its face. Doing that would never return a profit. No wonder the Bells came to that conclusion independently. And that is how the court decided.  I have to agree with you. I can't believe it but I have to agree. Why would the Bells build into homes that already lines? But what stupifies me is that of all the unethical monopolisitic things that the telcos have done over the last 10 years, this is the case that made it to the Supreme Court? Here's the cases I can think of bringing them to court for: 1 Creating fake "astro turf campaigns" to influence public opinion. 2 Not building out the fiber networks they were paid to build. 3 Not opening their networks to competition as dictated in the telecom Act of 96. 4 Restoring a monopoly. 5 Failing to honor concessions such as lowering dsl rates in Texas to retail ISP's because their lawyers didn't approve of the language in the contract, when they were the ones who authored the contract. 6 Failing to honor the concession of the SBC/AT&T merger to offer naked dsl. 7 Failing to honor the concessions of the AT&T/Bellsouth merger to offer naked dsl (2 freekin yrs later!) 8 Underminding local municipalities who try and build out their own netwoks after the telcos failed to build what they already agreed (and were paid) to build. 9 Wiping out the ISP and CLEC indistries by suffocating competition (wholesale dsl is more expensive than retail dsl.) 10 Forcing bundled solutions on customers. 11 Excessive lobbying and inciting corruption (although this is not illegal in itself, when your passing out $1.39 BILLION I'd be willing to bet there's more than enough illegal activity.)» www.publicintegrity.org/lobby/to···ompanies12 False advertising ($15 dsl does not exist without bundling and T1 rates have another 30% mark up over what your quoted when you order the service.) Of all of those legitimate arguments, the one that makes it to the Supreme Court is that they were scratching each other's backs? Hell, if they would have given it another 2 years then AT&T, Verizon and Qwest might be merged by then and then the Supreme Court wouldn't have had to waste time on this. Then they can get back to important decisions like should Maurice Clarett be allowed to enter the NFL early and who get's Anna Nicole's ex husband's money.  |
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  RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to nasadude Actually, it shows the fallacy of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which started this "competition" farce.
While the FCC often has its head up its ass, in this case Congress shoved it up there. You might also remember it as the first attempt by Congress to regulate "obscenity" on cable TV pay channels.
Anyone who has even a slight grasp of economics knows this would never work under any kind of "free market" arrangement. Either it's heavily subsidized or outright built by tax money. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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  ieolus Support The Clecs
join:2001-06-19 Duluth, GA | Then they should just nationalize the last mile to each home and let any service company that wants to provide service. There, free market competition at its finest. -- "Speak for yourself "Chadmaster" - lesopp |
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  RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL | Hardly. Why should someone who doesn't want to use it have to pay taxes to support that? -- Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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 Zoder
join:2002-04-16 Miami, FL
| reply to TK Junk Mail said by TK Junk Mail :Basically, the plaintiffs said that because the Baby Bells didn't go in to competitors neighborhoods and lay parallel wiring to each home that that was proof of collusion. The claim was ridiculous on its face. Doing that would never return a profit. No wonder the Bells came to that conclusion independently. And that is how the court decided. I seem to recall that the mergers which created Verizon and SBC pre-MCI/AT&T required the new companies to compete out-of-market. SBC sold local service as a CLEC in Miami for awhile because of this. But the FCC never really pushed the issue, so the companies never made a real effort to compete aggressively. |
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 bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus | reply to RadioDoc You collect fess from the network services providers... Subscriber funded. -- Prove it... |
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  RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Which does that address, the chicken or the egg? The infrastructure has to be there before there are subscribers.
I don't disagree something needs to be done, but nationalizing utilities rarely works. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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  SRFireside
join:2001-01-19 Houston, TX | Maybe a form of regulation that states whoever owns the line only provisions the line. They can't offer content. That way all the line owner can do (and hope for) is to get as many competing companies to lease their lines as possible. |
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  RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL | As long as it applies to everyone, including cable and wireless, I see nothing wrong with that.
Of course, we both know the probability of that happening is -1. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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 bmn ? ? ? Premium,ExMod 2003-06 join:2001-03-15 hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| reply to RadioDoc said by RadioDoc :Which does that address, the chicken or the egg? The infrastructure has to be there before there are subscribers. A forced divestiture of the existing infrastructure... Sounds nasty, but really, its the only way to make the telecom arena truly competitive. It is nearly impossible to build out an entirely new work to compete against the existing giants. And of course, it is asinine to spend resources when the existing network could just be shared instead of having fifty different networks dangling from telephone poles.
I don't disagree something needs to be done, but nationalizing utilities rarely works. The only other option is a not-for-profit operating corporation. -- Prove it... |
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  RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| If we are really serious about it we'd just give tax credits to those who own private networks, and shift it all over to some benevolent public-controlled overseer? Really?
Where has that ever really worked for anything? Maybe if you have central control and no private ownership there might be a chance you'd get close to the goal, but then what? Where does the money come from? Do you lease it all back to the original companies? How do you keep the government from fucking it up like they do everything else they control? We'll end up with another Amtrak.
The horse has been out of the barn so long it's died and its corpse been eaten by jackals. The time to do this was in 1981...I'm afraid there is no going back now. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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  supergirl
join:2007-03-20 Pensacola, FL
·Cox VOIP
·Skype
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southeast
·magicjack.com
| reply to RadioDoc said by RadioDoc :Actually, it shows the fallacy of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which started this "competition" farce. While the FCC often has its head up its ass, in this case Congress shoved it up there. You might also remember it as the first attempt by Congress to regulate "obscenity" on cable TV pay channels. Anyone who has even a slight grasp of economics knows this would never work under any kind of "free market" arrangement. Either it's heavily subsidized or outright built by tax money. Funny, Playboy took the FCC to court over that "obscenity" law and won. Since then, the Congress doesn't touch "erotic" entertainment. It shouldn't have in the first place ala the 1st Ammendment.
The Bells competing is as stupid as those CLECs offering phone service. |
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 Skippy25
join:2000-09-13 Hazelwood, MO
| reply to RadioDoc At the drop of a hat our country can spend hundreds of billions of dollars on a war in a country that has no real benefit to us and yet you would object to them using that kind of money in building a nationwide network?
I say build the damn network with our tax money as they have it to spend already and then lease the lines. |
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  RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| Try again, that made no sense. The tired "they can spend $$$ on war so why can't they spend $$$ on ______" is trite and intellectually lazy.
We already have a nationwide network. Several, in fact.
You say you're 35 years old. Do you pay taxes? Are you ready to pay enough extra to foot the bill for your shiny new network that has little actual benefit to anyone? -- Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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  RadioDoc Sortofadog Premium,ExMod 2000-03 join:2000-05-11 Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to supergirl said by supergirl :Funny, Playboy took the FCC to court over that "obscenity" law and won. Since then, the Congress doesn't touch "erotic" entertainment. It shouldn't have in the first place ala the 1st Ammendment. The Bells competing is as stupid as those CLECs offering phone service. Yep. Stupid is as stupid does. There's a lot of stupid inside the Beltway. -- Toolmaster of La Grange. |
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 FIOS
join:2007-03-10 Netcong, NJ
| reply to nasadude said by nasadude :You didn't think very hard before you wrote that did you? Because that one statement completely shows the fallacy of the current FCC policy of pushing facilities based competition and allowing the ILECs to get away with not sharing their lines. When are you cable people going to open up your coax to CLEC. You get to leech off the poles. You people never placed one pole. |
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 wentlanc You Can't Fix Dumb..
join:2003-07-30 Maineville, OH
| reply to RadioDoc For the same reason that you pay taxes to fix a neighbors road that you probably never drive on. 
People ni this country used to do things to help each other. now they only do things to help make money. It's a horrible shame really. |
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