biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI
|  Used Car Buying Etiquette
Here's the Story First:
First of all let me say that I absolutely despise buying or owning used cars, or cars that are more than 4-5 years old. For me personally, I have just leased new cars since 2000 because I got fed up with the ridiculously high costs of getting stuff fixed and I prefer having everything fixed under manufacturer’s warranty.
Well I recently helped a friend purchase a 1992 Honda Accord EX automatic. She just needed something “reliable” at an affordable price (she’s college). I figured her best bet would be a 1992 or 1993 Camry or Accord. Reliable and known to go for hundreds of thousands of miles. Many people must know this as well, because the resale on these cars is around $2,000 for a clean one with 200K.
Finally, I got an alert on Auto Trader. A ’92 Accord w/ 177K miles for $1600. Problem was that it was like 50 minutes away in Boston. No way I could get the car to my mechanic. We drove up, I drove the car. Checked the oil. Checked the tranny oil. Looked for exhaust smoke. Listened for any noises. The car ran smooth and clean, and the body had no rust at all. Couple selling was young working on their Master’s degrees. They even gave me a stack of regular maintenance. The car had basically one owner lol. The only odd sound was a sound from passenger rear brake in reverse. I figured it would need pads and maybe even a rotors back there.
I felt sort of uncomfortable because I usually like to have a mechanic do a thorough look, but for $1600 perhaps that was overkill. I negotiated the price to $1400 and the deal was done.
Well, in RI when you buy a car out-of-state it must be inspected here. Took it to an acquaintance of mine who has a shop. He’s not a friend like we have beers together, but we worked out together at the gym and I’ve had work done before. He’s pricier than a hack in a greasy garage, but he’s pretty meticulous.
He went through the car and here’s what he found that the rear pads, rotors, and passenger-side caliper needed replacing. He also said that the two front boots are torn on the front axle, and it looked like they’d been that way for a while, so the CV joints are shot. I told him I haven’t heard any clicking but he insists they need to be replaced. He said front axle, which will bring the new boots and joints. Car won’t pass inspection without ‘em. All this plus $50 for state inspection and oil change/filter, and replacing a worn tire. Grand total of $935.
Lol… I almost dropped the phone. I understand a lot of it’s routine because the car does have 177,000 miles, but daaaammmnnn. That brings me back to the original point.
Etiquette
When buying a used car, what is the etiquette for getting a car to a mechanic of your choice? Must mechanics charge around $75-$100 for a thorough inspection don’t they? So you have to commit to paying that before you even get to negotiate the price. Then if the seller refuses to budge much, you’re out the mechanic fee. This can get expensive after looking at a few cars…
For my future reference, how do you guys usually arrange to get a used car checked out before purchase or do you? Is a $1,400 car pretty much a “write-off” if it you don’t get a mechanic to look at it and it goes bad? Maybe if I would have known about the boots I would have negotaied down further, but that was my goof as I could have checked that visually.
Oh, and does $935 sound “reasonable” for the above work?
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"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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MEDIAN2k3
THIS IS A 91 HONDA HOW DARE YOU
Premium
join:2002-12-04
Bronx, NY
clubs: 
 ·Verizon Online DSL
 ·Optimum Online
| As far as the price goes for the work most of that price is labor, let me tell you what can be a $200 job turns out to be $600 due to labor at little mom and pop jobs. I recommend having a Honda Dealer do an inspection at least they guarantee all their work.
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Please Note I Have No Computer Right Now, I Do Check My Email Daily At Work, Thank You |
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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
·Speakeasy
| reply to biggbrother
The $935 sounds reasonable... The boots may only need to be replaced and not the axles for the CV joints.
I get a mechanic when I am VERY serious about buying a car. A local shop does that here - I think it was $99 and they give the car a real good look and have a list of recommendations along with a list of the options the vehicle has then it states a good retail price for the car. I did this even with a used car from a dealer (I only buy used cars).
You should see if there are mechanics that do mobile inspections of cars where they do the same thing as a regular shop but they will go to the dealer or owner/seller and do the same inspections and detail breakdown with a recommended retail price. I have a friend that does this locally...
If you want to make sure the price was ok then I would go to Edmunds or KBB and work up a retail price and see how close the cost of the car and repairs comes close.
Chances are that after the fixes the car will run for another 100K relatively trouble free if it is taken care of.
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Brian
"Some people are like Slinkies...
Not really good for anything......
But they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." |
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Glenn
I'D Rather Be Skiing
Premium
join:2000-10-05
Wallingford, CT
| reply to biggbrother
The joints may be fine now, but if they've been ripped for a bit, had any grease leak out and maybe went through a little rain, it would probably best to replace them. They my by fine now, but I have a feeling they'll be failing down the road. So you'll be out the $ for the boots and the $ for the new CV's. IMHO do it right now and pay less.
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Legal ATVing in Connecticut? |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA
| reply to MEDIAN2k3
said by MEDIAN2k3  :As far as the price goes for the work most of that price is labor, let me tell you what can be a $200 job turns out to be $600 due to labor at little mom and pop jobs. Because only little mom and pop shops are the ones that charge labor. 
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RIP Dimebag- August 20, 1966 to December 8th, 2004. |
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saber11
Check Six
Premium
join:2000-06-09
Clayton, OH | reply to biggbrother
Also always get a carfax report on any used car you are intersted in. Many times the sellers have already had one done and will provide it to you.
But even if they do it's always good to run it yourself. |
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biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI
| said by saber11 :Also always get a carfax report on any used car you are intersted in. Many times the sellers have already had one done and will provide it to you. But even if they do it's always good to run it yourself. Actually, the owner supplied me with the Carfax report. He actually e-mailed it to me in PDF with the link to the Carfax site as well. The car was originally from Idaho, then was in Oregon and then California, then Boston. One accident, a fender-bender.
I got the work done and the mechanic said the car is clean underneath and the body that he was amazed, and it was worth putting some money into because it will last.
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"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to biggbrother
It's called buyer beware.
Face it, most people are not mechanics nor do they play one on TV. These people you bought the car from either did not know how bad their car was OR they took it to a mechanic and knew they had a big repair bill. Either way, I would have doubted they would have let you take it to a mechanic to check it out. You would have walked BUT there would be another buyer right behind you who might have paid full price.
Chalk this up to a lesson learned. |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
May 23rd, @08:02PM
| reply to biggbrother
Here's my idea of what would happen if both parties were trying to be fair. The seller would state to the best of his knowledge what the car needs and give a "ballpark" estimate of how much it might cost. Then if the actual mechanic's report says it needs much more than that, the seller would pay for the inspection, and offer the buyer a discount. But if the seller's estimate was low or about right, the prospective purchaser buys the car and pays for the inspection.
This way, in the worst case for the seller (pays for inspection and no sale this time), he at least has a written report to show to future prospective buyers and can tell them with confidence about the condition and fixup costs. As for the buyer, he wouldn't have asked for the inspection unless he basically wanted the car and the question of condition was the only obstacle to purchase, so he is no worse off than if the seller had not made the conditional offer to pay for the inspection. And he gets a car in a condition that he deemed acceptable in the first place (i.e. what the seller represented). In either case the buyer avoids some of the expense of checking out cars (either saving on this one or avoiding more shopping around); and the price is economically reasonable.
Of course this is theoretical and does not necessarily represent what you could expect in real life. I just like to do something with the economics and philosopy I studied  |
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72276539
Premium
join:2001-01-19
Atlanta, GA | reply to biggbrother
Carfax is not reliable. |
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fixrman
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA | reply to 72276539
That's right. Labor at my dealership is free.  |
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fixrman
join:2003-02-10
Hatboro, PA
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Vonage
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to biggbrother
The amount you were charged - all things being equal - was very fair for all of that work.
I paid 2800.00 for a '91 Accord back in 1998. It had been hit, but was fixed "OK". Basic transportation these days is $1000.00, assuming 2 wheel drive.
I had a guy working with me who worked for Honda for a number of years so I paid him to do the timing belt. Sure, I could have done it, but he was faster than I would have been. He also gave me a set of Honda front pads free because mine were about 5/32. Can't beat that for $250.00, and he complained that I gave him a tip.
A boot reseal at the Honda dealer where I worked was $324.00 plus parts, so you can judge your deal from that. Be advised that Honda automatics were problematic from about 1990 to current models. You will find failures occurring during weather extremes - hot or cold spells. Keep the fluid clean. |
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beck
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-29
On The Road
·Qwest.net
 ·Verizon BroadbandA..
| reply to biggbrother
IMHO, you got a good deal. any car with over 100K and/or 10+ years is going to need stuff. If not today, then next week.
So you spent less than $1000 more and now have a good car. How can you do better? I don't think they priced it badly since you said that cars with over 200K on them were $2000 or more. Think of it as buying the car at $2600 and it's good to go. Since it didn't click, how do you know that they knew it needed the boots etc replaced?
A friend of mine bought a car for $2200 about 5 years ago. It has over 200k on it now. She's only ever put breaks, tires, oil change into it. And she bitched about the alternator going out. Sheesh!
I'll trade you my 2001 Ranger that I've put over $7000 into in the last 2 years since I bought it. And I won't tell you the things that still need to be done and aren't going to be done by me, ever.
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Some days it seems like ALL my brain cells have died. |
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biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI
| reply to biggbrother
Couple thoughts though...
Why would both calipers need to be replaced if one had a problem? Do they only sell them in pairs?
Secondly, Is the work to change just the boots just as much to change the axles?
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"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Probably because if the passenger side was broken it would put more stress on the drivers side. I've always heard that if you need brakes (front of back) that you should get both sides done at the same time.
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Bush bashing is old. How about more solutions instead? |
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iEvolution
join:2006-06-24
Ogden, UT
| reply to biggbrother
said by biggbrother :Couple thoughts though... Why would both calipers need to be replaced if one had a problem? Do they only sell them in pairs? Secondly, Is the work to change just the boots just as much to change the axles? They should charge about the same amount to replace the boots and the axles since they will be down there to do the axles anyway.
For example, many shops recommend changing out the waterpump while doing the timing belt because they are "already down there" as opposed to doing the waterpump at a later time because the time it takes to get down there is where the high labor costs come in.
Labor costs are usually a "PER HOUR" charge. |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to biggbrother
said by biggbrother :Couple thoughts though... Why would both calipers need to be replaced if one had a problem? Do they only sell them in pairs? Secondly, Is the work to change just the boots just as much to change the axles? jsouth was right about the brakes. If one side is failing, you should replace both because your brakes would still be uneven and during hard braking, you could pull one way or the other.
As for the rebooting of the axles, you still need to remove the CV axle to reboot it properly. Since the boots look like they were torn for a while (per the OP), I would just replace them and turn in the cores. |
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biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI
| reply to biggbrother
Now for something interesting....
How should "new" calipers look? I took a quick look at the calipers this morning and they look like a rusty-colored brown. The rotors are obviously new (unless he resurfaced them and told me they were "new".
The car is running great. But after looking at those calipers, I'm starting to get suspicious. I'm considering bringing it to another shop to verify all the work.....
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"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." -- George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four.
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iEvolution
join:2006-06-24
Ogden, UT | reply to biggbrother
Calipers are usually a graphite color or black..I guess its possible to be brown..but they shouldn't look like rust. |
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biggbrother
Premium
join:2001-11-07
Providence, RI | I'm gonna try to snap a pic of them and the axle/boots today. I'll post them here. |
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