 TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | reply to forrestin
Re: Average U.S. Broadband Speed: 1.9Mbps said by forrestin:I believe that the US includes a large number of Rural users. Taking this into consideration 1.5 Mbps may be close to the actual speed. I know of very few markets that 3-6 Mbps is average. The truth is that even Canada where 90% of the population is within 100 miles of the U.S. border only gets 7mbps average.
You can't compare us to other countries... It's as simple as that, they are densely populated, we are really spread out. I also find it amazing we're "1.9mbps" and the others are round numbers, almost like they pulled the numbers out of their asses.
What is the point in comparing these numbers? All that I know is that I can get 30mbps down / 5 mbps up and I'm happy, and FIOS is rolling out across the country. It's frigging internet service, not 911.. Don't get so upset if you are in the sticks and you can't get quality bandwidth.
-Tzale |
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Reviews:
 ·WildBlue
| said by Tzale:said by forrestin:I believe that the US includes a large number of Rural users. Taking this into consideration 1.5 Mbps may be close to the actual speed. I know of very few markets that 3-6 Mbps is average. Don't get so upset if you are in the sticks and you can't get quality bandwidth. -Tzale Go use dial-up or satellite for a few months and then come back and say that. It is easy to say suck it up and live with it whenever you already have the best.
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 |
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TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | said by Sircolby45:said by Tzale:said by forrestin:I believe that the US includes a large number of Rural users. Taking this into consideration 1.5 Mbps may be close to the actual speed. I know of very few markets that 3-6 Mbps is average. Don't get so upset if you are in the sticks and you can't get quality bandwidth. -Tzale Go use dial-up or satellite for a few months and then come back and say that. It is easy to say suck it up and live with it whenever you already have the best. We live in a Capitalistic FREE society... It's your problem if you're living somewhere where broadband service is unavailable or sucks. Want better service? Move or wait.
No single person or organization is responsible for this, we are all equally responsible for services that are profitable/unprofitable in this country. If it's unprofitable, don't expect a corporation to waste their time on you.
-Tzale
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"I'm a Geek, Are You?" |
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 maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·DIRECTV
| reply to Tzale
said by Tzale:You can't compare us to other countries... It's as simple as that, they are densely populated, we are really spread out. First off, although 90% of Canada lives near the U.S. border, they also have only about 30 million inhabitants. Southern Ontario (the 100 miles closest to the US and Toronto Area) is pretty much the same as Pennsylvania or Ohio if you are looking at population density.
Second, it doesn't explain why there are so many large metropolitan areas in the U.S. that still have lousy broadband. In the Greater Los Angeles Area, about 0.3% of the population can actually get FIOS, although about 50% of the population are connected to Verizon, (the other half is AT&T/former SBC). If you want to go fast, Time Warner is your only option. There are no DSL2 and hardly any FIOS rollouts in the Los Angeles area.
And to compare once again to a foreign country: There are several European countries who started offering DSL2 as early as 2004 with 12 to 20 Mbps downstream and 1 Mbps upstream. Three years later, you cannot get 20 Mbps ANYWHERE in the United States using DSL2 technology. Not even in dense populated cities.
Why is it that a 50 million people city like Tokyo can be fibered up for more then 50% already, and the United States can't even fiber up Manhattan?
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -
Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father. |
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TzaleProud Libertarian ConservativePremium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro | said by maartena:said by Tzale:You can't compare us to other countries... It's as simple as that, they are densely populated, we are really spread out. First off, although 90% of Canada lives near the U.S. border, they also have only about 30 million inhabitants. Southern Ontario (the 100 miles closest to the US and Toronto Area) is pretty much the same as Pennsylvania or Ohio if you are looking at population density. Second, it doesn't explain why there are so many large metropolitan areas in the U.S. that still have lousy broadband. In the Greater Los Angeles Area, about 0.3% of the population can actually get FIOS, although about 50% of the population are connected to Verizon, (the other half is AT&T/former SBC). If you want to go fast, Time Warner is your only option. There are no DSL2 and hardly any FIOS rollouts in the Los Angeles area. And to compare once again to a foreign country: There are several European countries who started offering DSL2 as early as 2004 with 12 to 20 Mbps downstream and 1 Mbps upstream. Three years later, you cannot get 20 Mbps ANYWHERE in the United States using DSL2 technology. Not even in dense populated cities. Why is it that a 50 million people city like Tokyo can be fibered up for more then 50% already, and the United States can't even fiber up Manhattan? I am fully aware of the population of Canada. They are still a much smaller area to cover than here in the States. LA doesn't have "lousy" broadband... FIOS is being rolled out as fast as it can be, what do you want them to do???? It's a service, not frigging life support.
And just so you know Verizon IS wiring up Manhattan and the surround tri-state area... My town is being wired as we speak... I wouldn't say NY doesn't have broadband options, it is the telecommunications capitol of the world and they DO have a variety of services. Europe is much more dense than the United States. There is a lot of work that needs to be done in the United States, but we aren't as bad as you guys make it out to be.
FIOS/FTTH is the future, Verizon is working hard on getting it rolled out. They just started a few years ago, give them time. It's not easy replacing all the copper with fiber, it will take 10-15 years for 99% of their customers to receive service, but they are quickly making progress in urban areas as we speak.
-Tzale
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"I'm a Geek, Are You?" |
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Reviews:
·WildBlue
| reply to Tzale
said by Tzale:We live in a Capitalistic FREE society... It's your problem if you're living somewhere where broadband service is unavailable or sucks. Want better service? Move or wait. No single person or organization is responsible for this, we are all equally responsible for services that are profitable/unprofitable in this country. If it's unprofitable, don't expect a corporation to waste their time on you. -Tzale Use dial-up or satellite for a few months, heck even for a day, and then come back and say that.
The fact of the matter is city folk need us and we need them. If the city folk stop scratching the country folks back then the country folk are going to stop scratching theirs. The fact of the matter is most people including country people use the internet today and are not willing to live without. If you run the majority of the country people to the city then where is our food going to come from? I for one live in the country not by choice, but because I am 17 and this is where my parents live so I don't get a choice. Because there is no decent internet out here I will not be staying in the country and I am going to move to where there is some decent internet whenever I graduate and go to college. The world is shifting to be highly dependent on the internet. I seriously doubt I am not the only one that is not willing to "suck it up and deal with it." So if everyone starts moving to the city who is going to grow/raise our nations food? While the older people may not move, the nations youth that will be growing/raising our food in the future will be a different story.
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 |
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maartenaElmoPremium
join:2002-05-10
Orange, CA
kudos:1 Reviews:
·AT&T U-Verse
·DIRECTV
| reply to Tzale
said by Tzale:FIOS/FTTH is the future, Verizon is working hard on getting it rolled out. They just started a few years ago, give them time. It's not easy replacing all the copper with fiber, it will take 10-15 years for 99% of their customers to receive service, but they are quickly making progress in urban areas as we speak. Unfortunately, Verizon only controls about 33% of the US market, and their main competitors like AT&T aren't bringing fiber to the home.
Verizon is also serving a lot of areas that are in the middle of nowhere, and eventually, in the next 10 years or so, maybe 20% of the US population will have access to fiber to the home, while those who live in AT&T, QWest, or other territories will probably have to wait till they realize that DSL really isn't going to cut it.....
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -
Benjamin Franklin, Founding Father. |
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KUppianoKarl Uppiano
join:2003-02-02
Ferndale, WA | reply to Sircolby45
Whether you like dial-up or satellite or not, rural internetification costs lots of money. In the city, you can run a few miles of FIOS or even get DSL to run down existing copper pairs, and get hundreds of customers.
In the sticks, you run several miles of FIOS (forget DSL) and you get maybe four or five customers. No provider in their right mind would invest in such a thing. It is very unlikely that they would break even.
It was the same with rural electrification and telephone service. It will happen eventually, but it will take longer. |
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Reviews:
·WildBlue
| said by KUppiano:Whether you like dial-up or satellite or not, rural internetification costs lots of money. In the city, you can run a few miles of FIOS or even get DSL to run down existing copper pairs, and get hundreds of customers. In the sticks, you run several miles of FIOS (forget DSL) and you get maybe four or five customers. No provider in their right mind would invest in such a thing. It is very unlikely that they would break even. It was the same with rural electrification and telephone service. It will happen eventually, but it will take longer. Yes, but most people don't think it should ever happen. My same argument above would have applied to electricity and telephone if they wouldn't have made a bill making it mandatory. We would not have any people to raise our food if they didn't force the electric and telephone companies to provide for us, because everyone would have moved to the city. Electricity and telephone is not required to get by, but who in their right mind would go without it. Internet is becoming the same way.
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 |
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| reply to maartena
Your wrong about DSL2! I can get it in Maine!
»www.gwi.net/residential/highspeed/index.html
said by maartena:said by Tzale: Three years later, you cannot get 20 Mbps ANYWHERE in the United States using DSL2 technology. Not even in dense populated cities. |
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 SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | reply to Tzale
said by Tzale:The truth is that even Canada where 90% of the population is within 100 miles of the U.S. border only gets 7mbps average. You can't compare us to other countries Canada is slightly more urban than the USA, but not by much. Simply put, the USA has absolutely zero excuse when a country just as spread out like Canada can get 7Mbit/s to someone in the middle of nowhere.
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Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca |
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 JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10 | I've asked people before to give me a few cities in BC or AB and I'll check to see if adsl services are available there... Unless it's really, really rural chances are they can get it.
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I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications. |
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SnickerdoPremium
join:2001-02-28
Niagara Falls, ON | said by JammerMan79:I've asked people before to give me a few cities in BC or AB and I'll check to see if adsl services are available there... Unless it's really, really rural chances are they can get it. ... and if they can't get DSL, they can get cable or 3Mbit/s wireless or something. 1.9Mbit/s for a country with a similar population density and urban population as Canada is pathetic and of no excuse. The USA is becoming what Australia was a few years ago - crap when it comes to broadband.
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Bigot - Someone that has won an argument with a Liberal.
Yes, I CanChat. Can You? www.fiberal.ca |
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JammerMan79Premium,VIP
join:2004-05-13
Prince George, BC
kudos:10
1 edit | exactly... so 90% lives within 100 miles of the US..
what about the other 10% (3 million people) who are further away... MOST of them can get broadband as well.
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I may work for, but do not necessarily represent the views and beliefs of TELUS Communications. |
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 PortmonkeyMy watch stoppedPremium
join:2004-04-09
Southern IL | reply to KUppiano
Average would be nice, but I don't think it is something people will ever see in this little one horse town here in Southern IL. $45 per month for 1Mbit/128 (DSL) and that's only if you also subscribe to their long distance phone service, otherwise it's $55 per month. I'd happily move for no other reason than to have more bandwidth at a better price, but it's just not in the budget at the moment among other reasons for needing to stay here. New technology to overcome this problem would be welcome, but I guess there's not enough people in this area to make it worth consideration. About the only good part of DSL in this area is that it is very reliable for what it is considering I don't remember the last time service was down. |
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KUppianoKarl Uppiano
join:2003-02-02
Ferndale, WA | reply to Sircolby45
said by Sircolby45:said by KUppiano:Whether you like dial-up or satellite or not, rural internetification costs lots of money. In the city, you can run a few miles of FIOS or even get DSL to run down existing copper pairs, and get hundreds of customers. In the sticks, you run several miles of FIOS (forget DSL) and you get maybe four or five customers. No provider in their right mind would invest in such a thing. It is very unlikely that they would break even. It was the same with rural electrification and telephone service. It will happen eventually, but it will take longer. Yes, but most people don't think it should ever happen. My same argument above would have applied to electricity and telephone if they wouldn't have made a bill making it mandatory. We would not have any people to raise our food if they didn't force the electric and telephone companies to provide for us, because everyone would have moved to the city. Electricity and telephone is not required to get by, but who in their right mind would go without it. Internet is becoming the same way. Wages and prices are nature's communication channel telling people the true value of goods and services. Currently, it is simply too expensive to wire the countryside with these high-tech amenities.
Many people would live in the country because they prefer the lifestyle. Without high-speed internet. Or phones. Or even electricity for that matter. Face it, we humans spent the vast bulk of our time on this planet without those things, and we flourished quite handily, thank you very much.
Even if farmers started moving to the city, it wouldn't happen overnight. The gradual reduction of the food supply would cause a gradual increase in farm prices, and we would reach a new equilibrium. Maybe farmers would make enough money that they could afford to bring high-speed internet to the country for the true cost of doing it, instead of the government forcing the city folk to pay for it whether anyone really wanted it enough to pay for it of their own free will. |
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 batterupI Can Not Tell A Lie.Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to tamovies
said by tamovies:Your wrong about DSL2! I can get it in Maine! » www.gwi.net/residential/highspeed/index.htmlsaid by maartena:said by Tzale: Three years later, you cannot get 20 Mbps ANYWHERE in the United States using DSL2 technology. Not even in dense populated cities. Don't worry, FairPoint will gladly maintain a 20 Mbps copper loop for CLECs. Heck @ $55 a month there is plenty of money to pay the coolies FairPoint will bring in. |
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bohn
join:2006-05-30
Scarborough, ON | reply to Tzale
7 my arse. I doubt it's anything over 2.5. If it matters the future of canadian internet is satellite internet from America because it will be much cheaper in price as our prices rise and your prices fall. |
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Reviews:
·WildBlue
| reply to KUppiano
said by KUppiano:said by Sircolby45:said by KUppiano:Whether you like dial-up or satellite or not, rural internetification costs lots of money. In the city, you can run a few miles of FIOS or even get DSL to run down existing copper pairs, and get hundreds of customers. In the sticks, you run several miles of FIOS (forget DSL) and you get maybe four or five customers. No provider in their right mind would invest in such a thing. It is very unlikely that they would break even. It was the same with rural electrification and telephone service. It will happen eventually, but it will take longer. Yes, but most people don't think it should ever happen. My same argument above would have applied to electricity and telephone if they wouldn't have made a bill making it mandatory. We would not have any people to raise our food if they didn't force the electric and telephone companies to provide for us, because everyone would have moved to the city. Electricity and telephone is not required to get by, but who in their right mind would go without it. Internet is becoming the same way. Wages and prices are nature's communication channel telling people the true value of goods and services. Currently, it is simply too expensive to wire the countryside with these high-tech amenities. Many people would live in the country because they prefer the lifestyle. Without high-speed internet. Or phones. Or even electricity for that matter. Face it, we humans spent the vast bulk of our time on this planet without those things, and we flourished quite handily, thank you very much. Even if farmers started moving to the city, it wouldn't happen overnight. The gradual reduction of the food supply would cause a gradual increase in farm prices, and we would reach a new equilibrium. Maybe farmers would make enough money that they could afford to bring high-speed internet to the country for the true cost of doing it, instead of the government forcing the city folk to pay for it whether anyone really wanted it enough to pay for it of their own free will. So you would rather let food prices rise than pay a small tax on your internet bill? To each his own I guess.
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Wildblue Pro Pack / Beam 40 / Laredo NOC / Windows MCE SP2 |
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KUppianoKarl Uppiano
join:2003-02-02
Ferndale, WA | said by Sircolby45:So you would rather let food prices rise than pay a small tax on your internet bill? To each his own I guess. Don't be ridiculous. It's the same thing -- except with the free market you keep government coercion out of it, and people make their own choices. |
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