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K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH
·RoadRunner Cable

reply to Apollo729
Re: Notice of Claim of Copyright Infrigement letter

said by Apollo729 See Profile :

This isn't as bad as it sounds I think, w/o knowing what he downloaded we can't say it is the RIAA who would sue him, I think what is likely here is that someone ran a hacked client and gathered IP addresses and sent out mass Copyright Infringement letters.

This is almost certainly what happened.

said by Apollo729 See Profile :

Little if anything will come from this as there is no real tangible evidence to take to court, just a few bytes that said yes that file is here; this was /. awhile back under Your Rights Online.
And they did this for their own amusement or thinking that notifying the infringer would stop the infringement?

The evidence they likely have is a copy of the infringer's shared directory, and copies of files they downloaded from it containing material for which they or their clients own the license.

Plenty of evidence to obtain a judgement, except that they don't really need to go that far in most cases. Once the infringer obtains counsel and learns what it will cost to defend they pay up.

Apollo729

join:2006-08-28
Avis, PA

said by K Patterson See Profile :

And they did this for their own amusement or thinking that notifying the infringer would stop the infringement?
Yes, that is what they think, that is why they fish for IPs and send letters, to scare people into not doing it. Notice how many people post here and else where that they got those letters and nothing came of it?

They don't have proof of anything, if they did, they would sue, but the manner in which we are describing, does not get them any evidence of anything, just a reply from an IP that yes that file is here and they then send a letter off to the ISP to scare people.

They contract this out, a real company does this, as I said, it was posted to /. and digg before, it may have been an Ars Technica article.

If you look at the public documents from trials it becomes clear that they are just printing off the list of files that the file sharing app displays as being in your share folder, we are just guessing here, but it doesn't seem likely they have such a list, the OP is most likely a victim of IP farming.
--
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

K Patterson
Premium,MVM
join:2006-03-12
Columbus, OH
·RoadRunner Cable

I'm not sure what you mean by IP farming, that's a new term to me.

If it is RIAA, they use a firm called Media Sentry, and that firm not only looks at the shared directory, they also look at the contents of the files to see if they contain infringing material.

Apollo729

join:2006-08-28
Avis, PA


edit:
May 30th, @05:37PM

I thought I did thoroughly explain it.

What they do is use a hacked client that sends fake packets out, it acts as a real client, but, all it does is farm for IP addresses, then they send letters, lots and lots of letters, as the OP said, some people get 25 of them and nothing happens.

They do get false hits with this method though.

Farm or Farming of course comes from MMO farming, to gather endlessly one item(gold, ore, etc...) to sell it for real world gain. The way I used it was to say that they farm or harvest IP addresses.
--
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

eric87m

join:2003-12-07
Princeton, NJ
^Ok, should I tell them I deleted it, never downloaded it, or just ignore it completely?

It was a HD-DVD Rip, Patterson. (I figured they went for the Xvid downloaders first :P )

Apollo729

join:2006-08-28
Avis, PA
Just ignore it, unless it ask for action, does it ask you to do anything?

eric87m

join:2003-12-07
Princeton, NJ

No, apollo, same message that's all over the internet. Just says a copyright holder has notified Comcast of infringement, and states the file name and protocol.

Jbob, I usually use newsgroups too, I just didn't feel like paying for it this month, and look where it got me!


Rob916

@sbcglobal.net
I received one of those 3 years ago. I ignored it and kept on doing what I was going and never heard anything again. I've changed ISP's recently but never again heard from Comcast again.


exocet_cm
Signal 26's Rock
Premium
join:2003-03-23
New Orleans, LA
clubs:
·Cox HSI
·Network Telephone ..
·Suddenlink
·Cingular Wireless

said by Rob916 :

I received one of those 3 years ago. I ignored it and kept on doing what I was going and never heard anything again. I've changed ISP's recently but never again heard from Comcast again.
I've heard of people using their neighbor's connection for downloading copyrighted material...
--
"I have measured out my life with coffee spoons..." - T.S Eliot
Ma Blog »www.johndball.com


Toadman
How do you like these Apples

join:2001-11-28
Medina, OH

reply to Rob916
said by Rob916 :

I received one of those 3 years ago. I ignored it and kept on doing what I was going and never heard anything again. I've changed ISP's recently but never again heard from Comcast again.
Changing ISP's is the best thing you can do. I would of contacted comcrap already and told them where they could shove the letter, it isn't there business to police and if it is a "scare tactic" then they obviously don't consider you the customer 1, but someone else. Go with an ISP that won't report you or has a record of usually not reporting people. A small ISP would be perfect.


BillRoland
Premium
join:2001-01-21
Ocala, FL
clubs:
·Cox HSI

said by Toadman See Profile :

said by Rob916 :

I received one of those 3 years ago. I ignored it and kept on doing what I was going and never heard anything again. I've changed ISP's recently but never again heard from Comcast again.
Changing ISP's is the best thing you can do. I would of contacted comcrap already and told them where they could shove the letter, it isn't there business to police and if it is a "scare tactic" then they obviously don't consider you the customer 1, but someone else. Go with an ISP that won't report you or has a record of usually not reporting people. A small ISP would be perfect.
I could be mistaken but I believe they are required by the DMCA act to do something once they've been notified that one of their users is distributing copyrighted material.
--
"Don't steal. The government hates competition."


tshirt
Premium
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA

reply to exocet_cm
said by exocet_cm See Profile :

said by Rob916 :

I received one of those 3 years ago. I ignored it and kept on doing what I was going and never heard anything again. I've changed ISP's recently but never again heard from Comcast again.
I've heard of people using their neighbor's connection for downloading copyrighted material...
and if you sneak over at night, you can siphon gas from their cars, maybe slip your other bills in with theirs and they'll unknowingly pay them too.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
clubs:

reply to Toadman
"Changing ISP's is the best thing you can do. I would of contacted comcrap already and told them where they could shove the letter, it isn't there business to police and if it is a "scare tactic" then they obviously don't consider you the customer 1, but someone else. Go with an ISP that won't report you or has a record of usually not reporting people. A small ISP would be perfect."

Please go get a clue. The OP was NOT reported by Comcast, in fact no ISP reports people. Every ISP has to respond to an infringement reported by a copyright holder.

Geez

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson


Morty
Premium
join:2004-09-18

Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, ISPs must notify their customers if a copyright owner has claimed a customer with that ISPs IP address has downloaded portions of a copyright owned material, or they can be held legally liable. All ISPs will comply with this, because they do not want to get into lawsuits, and it is know that for the most part the RIAA etc, will not individually press most cases.


kados
Hail Odin
Premium
join:2003-03-14
Watertown, SD
·Midcontinent Commu..
·Qwest.net

reply to exocet_cm
I've heard of people using their neighbor's connection for downloading copyrighted material...
wow...I wonder who does that???????
--
09-F9-11-02-9D-74-E3-5B-D8-41-56-C5-63-56-88-C0 What is it? Is IT? What is it?


roztaylor

join:2000-10-21
Arlington, TX
·AT&T Yahoo

reply to Morty
said by Morty See Profile :

Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, ISPs must notify their customers if a copyright owner has claimed a customer with that ISPs IP address has downloaded portions of a copyright owned material, or they can be held legally liable. All ISPs will comply with this, because they do not want to get into lawsuits, and it is know that for the most part the RIAA etc, will not individually press most cases.
Related question: My AT&T (SBC Yahoo) DSL account is setup as DHCP (i.e. I don't own/have a fixed IP address). When I do an IPCONFIG, it shows 10 minutes as the lifetime of the IP address. I typically reboot my PC a couple times per week. Each time I reboot, I receive a new IP address.

So, does my ISP maintain a log that shows which customer has which IP address at which time & date? Does this mean that I probably won't ever get this kind of letter, if I were to do that kind of activity--or am I going to get someone else's letter because I have the IP address that they used to have when they did the downloading. (Similar to the telephone calls we receive, asking for the people who had our telephone number before we did.)
--
Choose to make it a good day... don't wait for something good to happen!

Apollo729

join:2006-08-28
Avis, PA

They should have a log for 14 days I think, maybe longer, there is always logs on a server for troubleshooting issues, so far they aren't required by law to keep anything, but there is a push to store 2 years of logs, but, that won't happen.
--
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast


edit:
May 31st, @09:36AM

reply to roztaylor
said by roztaylor See Profile :

said by Morty See Profile :

Under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, ISPs must notify their customers if a copyright owner has claimed a customer with that ISPs IP address has downloaded portions of a copyright owned material, or they can be held legally liable. All ISPs will comply with this, because they do not want to get into lawsuits, and it is know that for the most part the RIAA etc, will not individually press most cases.
Related question: My AT&T (SBC Yahoo) DSL account is setup as DHCP (i.e. I don't own/have a fixed IP address). When I do an IPCONFIG, it shows 10 minutes as the lifetime of the IP address. I typically reboot my PC a couple times per week. Each time I reboot, I receive a new IP address.

So, does my ISP maintain a log that shows which customer has which IP address at which time & date? Does this mean that I probably won't ever get this kind of letter, if I were to do that kind of activity--or am I going to get someone else's letter because I have the IP address that they used to have when they did the downloading. (Similar to the telephone calls we receive, asking for the people who had our telephone number before we did.)
I used to do contract work for an ISP and I can tell you they keep years of data on who gets what IP address. They aren't required by law to do so, but almost all major ISPs do it. In short, this won't work.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal

Apollo729

join:2006-08-28
Avis, PA

 
said by Nightfall See Profile :

I used to do contract work for an ISP and I can tell you they keep years of data on who gets what IP address. They aren't required by law to do so, but almost all major ISPs do it. In short, this won't work.
Ditto, but, I've seen the flip side too, more then a few times I've found no logs at all because they used too much disk space or some other misguided reason.

Not just on servers mind you, on desktops as well, hundreds of computers, newer models with large hard drives, nothing installed but XP and Office; one or two hundred GB free and they turn off windows built in logs to save space.

There's always two sides to a coin, no one can say for sure that any given ISP or even part of an ISP goes by the book, either the law or their own rules, so his ISP may keep logs or they may not; at the end of the day these networks are run by people and people don't always do things the right way, or even the logical way.
--
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
clubs:
·Site5.com
·AT&T Midwest
·Comcast

said by Apollo729 See Profile :

said by Nightfall See Profile :

I used to do contract work for an ISP and I can tell you they keep years of data on who gets what IP address. They aren't required by law to do so, but almost all major ISPs do it. In short, this won't work.
Ditto, but, I've seen the flip side too, more then a few times I've found no logs at all because they used too much disk space or some other misguided reason.

Not just on servers mind you, on desktops as well, hundreds of computers, newer models with large hard drives, nothing installed but XP and Office; one or two hundred GB free and they turn off windows built in logs to save space.

There's always two sides to a coin, no one can say for sure that any given ISP or even part of an ISP goes by the book, either the law or their own rules, so his ISP may keep logs or they may not; at the end of the day these networks are run by people and people don't always do things the right way, or even the logical way.
Very true as well. I guess the question is, do you feel lucky? I know, if I was downloading illegal files, I wouldn't want to bank on the fact that my ISP wasn't keeping records like that. Its a gamble that, knowing your luck, wouldn't pay off. Its best to assume that they do things the right way to cover their asses.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal
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