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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to Selenia

Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User

Hmmm...so it is not just Hawaii seeing a disappearance of ATDN. I wonder what is going on...

I do believe ATDN is dead or almost so. Site has a copywrite date of 2003. The Server certificate is outdated as June 28, 2007. One page on the site has a more recent date of Feb 2006. Looking at the map there, there are (were) FOUR connections from Hawaii to two locations in Los Angeles, one in San Jose and one in Sunnyvale. No wonder that I had perfect speed to everywhere on the Mainland from summer 2003-Jan 2005 (with a few trouble times that fixed). My speed then, when the cap was 3000kbps was 3100-3200 even on nac.net speed test.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason
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ututman4

@rr.com
reply to Dampier

Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User

Will this explain the internet cutting off every 10 minutes? Often times websites won't load and AIM cuts off. Could this explain it all? Plus, online gaming is sucking it up.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11
said by ututman4 :

Will this explain the internet cutting off every 10 minutes? Often times websites won't load and AIM cuts off. Could this explain it all? Plus, online gaming is sucking it up.
No its nothing to do with it.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson


ututman4

@rr.com
reply to Dampier
So the whole thing will just end up slowing down our internet to a speed much less than we pay for?


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11
said by ututman4 :

So the whole thing will just end up slowing down our internet to a speed much less than we pay for?
No...Read the thread.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson


ututman4

@rr.com
reply to Dampier
I read the first three pages, and that's what I got out of it. There's not way I'm reading all 28 pages.


djrobx
Premium
join:2000-05-31
Valencia, CA
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·VOIPO

1 edit
If traffic shaping is implemented at all, and if it's implemented properly, it's supposed to only affect certain types of "chronically high consumption" services like usenet and torrents during high traffic periods. In theory, it would protect other types of traffic (web, gaming, etc) from slowing down due to the former types of activities when their network is peaked out.

--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.
Expand your moderator at work

Tom_S

join:2007-11-24
Malone, NY
reply to Dampier

Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User

For several months I have been a customer of Time Warner Cable. I had a standard RR account. Around the middle of June this year, I began having problems using Bit Comet. I would start downloading several torrents, and when coming back to check on them, would notice both the DL and UL rates had degenerated to 0. Also, when I tried to access any other other Internet facet (Http/Instant Messengers/etc) it appeared as though I had no connection, although the on-line light was still on. I originally thought it was because I had recently upgraded my version of Bit Comet, but it was also happening, if not nearly so often, to my roommate. Unfortunately, I had no knowledge of any sort of traffic maintenance technology. I could still get max DL/UL speed for several hours at a time, so I just considered it a minor inconvenience and dealt with it. Earlier this month, I moved to another location, and had RR installed there. Several days of the same, then suddenly, I was getting disconnected in a matter of minutes. I downloaded Azureus, thinking maybe it was just a problem with Bit Comet. For about a day, it seemed to work. Then I came home after staying at a friend's house one night, and again, my internet was still connected, I could access nothing. I reset my modem, and the torrents started downloading again, but went down to 0K/s in a matter of minutes. It was at this time that I started looking for answers on help forums. I soon found out about traffic shaping, and used all the prescribed fixes to try and bypass it (encryption,port forwarding,etc), and notice little improvement. I happened upon an obscure page on the TW website showing that there was a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. Finally, I called TW and cancelled my account.

I returned the equipment immediately and requested a refund as I was within the 30 day period. The desk secretary said she would have to leave a memo for her supervisor, as she did not know as to whether or not I was entitled to a refund. I went home, called tech support, and explained my situation. Amazingly, the technician knew what I was talking about, and told me that "virtually every ISP now uses traffic shaping.' After trying to con me into upgrading to the Turbo account, he realised I was not changing my mind, and informed me that I would be receiving a check in the mail for a full refund. That was yesterday, so it may be a while before I receive it.

My friend, who also has RR, was not as badly affected as me. Though she still suffers low speeds, her connection is not completely frozen like mine. This might be attributable to the fact that she has a different modem than me.

So to all the skeptics. Time Warner IS and HAS BEEN using traffic shaping. Some people may not be affected as strongly, or, at all by it, if they are lucky, but if you get a knowledgeable enough technician, they will tell you it is FACT, not speculation.


45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
said by Tom_S:

For several months I have been a customer of Time Warner Cable. I had a standard RR account. Around the middle of June this year, I began having problems using Bit Comet.
Problem found. At this point the post should end.


GTaylor95
Premium
join:2002-12-14
Frisco, TX
reply to Dampier
My only other option here is AT&T and they're just as bad, but at the pace RR is going they're looking better every day.


Stem Bolt
Aka Smiling Bob
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2

2 edits
reply to Dampier
I posted this info over in the filesharing forum but looks like it could be of use here. For those who are considering looking for an alternative to bittorrents or new usenet providers. The providers offer unlimited accounts, have at least 100 days retention, and charge less then $15. Several offer free SSL.

»www.megabitz.net/

110 days retention, free SSL, $13.95 a month- unlimited, 8 connections with quarterly plan, 5 connections on the month to month plan.

»www.newsrazor.net/

100+ days retention, $10.95 for the first 3 months - then $14.95 there after, 10 connections

»www.blocknews.net/

100+ days retention, free SSL, $14.89 a month- unlimited, 12 connections

»eweka.nl/en/home//

Located in The Netherlands.
120 days retention, 7.50 Euro a month- which converts to $11.12 U.S.- unlimited, 8 connections,

»www.hitnews.eu/english/

Also located in The Netherlands.
100 days retention, free SSL, 6.50 Euro a month- which converts to $9.65 U.S. - unlimited, 8 connections


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
reply to 45612019
said by 45612019:

said by Tom_S:

For several months I have been a customer of Time Warner Cable. I had a standard RR account. Around the middle of June this year, I began having problems using Bit Comet.
Problem found. At this point the post should end.
lol well Bitcomet is not the problem in respect to this, though that client is a problem for the sharing community at large. Neither is TWC. I have experienced TWC shaping and while it really sucks, it does not cut your connection. It's likely one of a few things. A) Your modem cannot handle lots of connections gracefully and lags or crashes. B) Your router cannot gracefully handle lots of connection, then lags or crashes. C) You have the max half open and/or max connections set way too high for your client and either the hardware can't handle it or you're getting snubbed for spreading your upload too thin. The solution to those 3 is turning down your max connections and max half-open in the client. It could also be D) You run Service Pack 2 and have not patched tcp.sys to handle the half open connections, causing Windows not to allow any new connections. As old ones die and are not detected right away, you may have no room for useful connections, D) Part 2 is you run Vista and have the client's max set too high.

Anyways, the Windows network stack sucks and so do alot of cheap modems and routers. If you want to be hardcore, use a Linux box, buy a good modem, and use an old pc running smoothwall through a hub as your router(you can even build a little underclocked box that uses little power and needs no fans). Otherwise, just chill on the number of connections you make. They are useless beyond a certain number anyways,

SB7785

join:2007-08-15
South Richmond Hill, NY
Selenia, I use Utorrent. What are some suggested settings for max half open connections etc?


45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
You people also seem to be forgetting about Cox and Comcast.

Both of these ISPs employ Sandvine, and I have personally experienced problems trying to download from a torrent with solely Comcast and Cox users seeding. I could usually download for about 15 seconds and then the connection would drop. I had to keep stopping and starting the torrent to inch my way along to completion.

This might not even be a problem on Time Warner's end, it could be a problem like I have described.

OB Kenobi

join:2005-05-29
Brooklyn, NY
reply to ututman4
said by ututman4 :

Will this explain the internet cutting off every 10 minutes?
No, that is just standard TWC service.


xNBKxZ3r0

join:2007-09-08
Glendale, AZ
reply to 45612019
I was a former Cox customer in Las Vegas before I moved to Moreno Valley, CA. Not once did I ever experience any issues with my connection. I would have to say that Cox had the most stable connection in Vegas than anyone else. I did use utorrent and never had problems with my downloads. But with TWC I've had nothing but problems from install date till present.


45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY
said by xNBKxZ3r0:

I was a former Cox customer in Las Vegas before I moved to Moreno Valley, CA. Not once did I ever experience any issues with my connection. I would have to say that Cox had the most stable connection in Vegas than anyone else. I did use utorrent and never had problems with my downloads. But with TWC I've had nothing but problems from install date till present.
I was once a Cox customer as well. Things have changed in the past few months. Did you miss the notice that was posted in the news section a few weeks ago about them employing Sandvine?


xNBKxZ3r0

join:2007-09-08
Glendale, AZ
I've been a TWC customer since October. I had Cox back in Sept. and never got any notice providing any of that info. Of course Las Vegas has totally different rules and regulations than most other states. I'm not sure if Sandvine was aloud in Vegas but at this point anything is possible now.


Selenia
Gentoo Convert
Premium
join:2006-09-22
Fort Smith, AR
kudos:2
reply to Dampier
Well I think my node is oversold these days, but this shaping seems to be fairly transparent now. Everything works fine but for ping spikes in the evening(they could be much worse, I used to have Rogers before I moved to the US). Everything works fine but for when BT is running. Encryption seems to beat that, as long as it's set to only initiate and accept such connections. If there is a lack of peers supporting it, a tunnel seems to do the trick.

derk0

join:2000-08-31
Cleveland, OH
I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing. I can run a speedtest and get great speeds and latency. BUT when I try and download a big file (non p2p) from msdn.microsoft.com or from ftp.redhat.com it's dialup speeds.

I could be wrong maybe it's that my area (NEO) is oversold via cable modem service, but the download speeds are atrocious during the day. I definitely think the culprit is packet shaping.

sovere1gnty

join:2006-04-05
Buffalo, NY
said by derk0:

I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing. I can run a speedtest and get great speeds and latency. BUT when I try and download a big file (non p2p) from msdn.microsoft.com or from ftp.redhat.com it's dialup speeds.

I could be wrong maybe it's that my area (NEO) is oversold via cable modem service, but the download speeds are atrocious during the day. I definitely think the culprit is packet shaping.
You probably have some underlying problem. Start a thread, ask for help and post the requested info. Packetshaping is transparent and will not affect normal downloads such as updates from Microsoft.

derk0

join:2000-08-31
Cleveland, OH
said by sovere1gnty:

said by derk0:

I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing. I can run a speedtest and get great speeds and latency. BUT when I try and download a big file (non p2p) from msdn.microsoft.com or from ftp.redhat.com it's dialup speeds.

I could be wrong maybe it's that my area (NEO) is oversold via cable modem service, but the download speeds are atrocious during the day. I definitely think the culprit is packet shaping.
You probably have some underlying problem. Start a thread, ask for help and post the requested info. Packetshaping is transparent and will not affect normal downloads such as updates from Microsoft.
Well, it's probably a widespread issue in my area (NEO). I have read other folks complaining of the same thing. Good web surfing speeds but downloading during off peak or peak hours is down to dial up speeds.

Anyhow, I am back to ATT DSL with a cheaper price than TWC-RR and at the advertised speeds. The only way TWC-RR would lower my price is if I chose another cable tv package (which I didn't want to do).


NiceGuyNY21

join:2000-10-15
Buffalo, NY
said by derk0:

said by sovere1gnty:

said by derk0:

I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing.
its kind of funny i was only aware of one area officially using packetshaping, and its not in ohio period... anyhow neo is a sucky market to sub to cable internet as well as pretty much anywhere in ohio...i feel your pain...good luck with dsl.

derk0

join:2000-08-31
Cleveland, OH
said by NiceGuyNY21:

its kind of funny i was only aware of one area officially using packetshaping, and its not in ohio period... anyhow neo is a sucky market to sub to cable internet as well as pretty much anywhere in ohio...i feel your pain...good luck with dsl.
You are probably right that it's a NEO overall problem and not packetshaping. When I moved to Cleveland in 2000, the cable service was Cablevision. Soon it was Adelphia and just last year, it became TWC-RR. The infrastructure I am betting in this area is a mess.

I guess there has been an equally crazy transition for Ohio bell to Ameritech to SBC to ATT. But really I have only witnessed the Ohio bell to Ameritech/SBC/ATT transition.

In July 2006, after a great year flawless ATT Yahoo DSL service, I had major problems. It took a lot of calls to fix an inside wiring problem, a problem with the line from NID to outside pole and ultimately getting a brand new circuit. They solved it.

At least with all the TWC-RR Neo support folks, I have complained to as long as my line is up and running, NO ONE has offered to help. They treat me like I just want to download P2P (which isn't the case).


pL86

@rr.com
reply to Dampier

Packeting shaping has arrived in NYC

I've had some problems recently with simple websites stalling, internet connection cutting off completely. I thought it was a problem with DNS servers. I ran ping tests with Road Runner support and one second, it would be fine, no packet loss, then literally a second later, complete 100% packet loss. Maybe it was my line so I scheduled a Level 3 tech to come out and investigate. Before the appointment, I decided to swap out my modem. Voila, problems fixed! So I thought it was a bad modem.

Over the weekend, I did some heavy bit torrent downloading. And the problems that I experienced before returned. I just started downloading a regular update to a program and in the middle of the download, the transfer rate simple zeroed out. I've never seen that before until very, very recently. The first time I started experiencing this problem, it also coincided with heavy bit torrent use. I believe these internet disruptions and the torrent downloading are not coincidences but causal.

I know there are people here who say the traffic shaping shouldn't affect regular surfing but I believe they're simply wrong, clinging to theory (should work) and refusing to listen to real world user reports (does work). I'm sure the shaping isn't SUPPOSED to affect regular traffic but I bet the software isn't perfect and it is overzealous. I'm never completely cut off for long, 30-60 seconds, but I am definitely cut off and regular surfing to sites like CNN or Microsoft stall, even during off-peak times like 3 a.m.

The good "news" is that the shaping appears to be applied to a specific modem, not your entire account, so exchanging your blocked modem for a new one removes the shaping, at least until you start downloading heavily again. I plan to exchange my modem and now that I've figured out what's going on, will be more careful about spacing out my downloads.


MacLeech
The one and only
Premium
join:2001-07-14
SoCal
kudos:3
said by pL86 :

I've had some problems recently with simple websites stalling, internet connection cutting off completely. I thought it was a problem with DNS servers. I ran ping tests with Road Runner support and one second, it would be fine, no packet loss, then literally a second later, complete 100% packet loss. Maybe it was my line so I scheduled a Level 3 tech to come out and investigate. Before the appointment, I decided to swap out my modem. Voila, problems fixed! So I thought it was a bad modem.

Over the weekend, I did some heavy bit torrent downloading. And the problems that I experienced before returned. I just started downloading a regular update to a program and in the middle of the download, the transfer rate simple zeroed out. I've never seen that before until very, very recently. The first time I started experiencing this problem, it also coincided with heavy bit torrent use. I believe these internet disruptions and the torrent downloading are not coincidences but causal.

I know there are people here who say the traffic shaping shouldn't affect regular surfing but I believe they're simply wrong, clinging to theory (should work) and refusing to listen to real world user reports (does work). I'm sure the shaping isn't SUPPOSED to affect regular traffic but I bet the software isn't perfect and it is overzealous. I'm never completely cut off for long, 30-60 seconds, but I am definitely cut off and regular surfing to sites like CNN or Microsoft stall, even during off-peak times like 3 a.m.

The good "news" is that the shaping appears to be applied to a specific modem, not your entire account, so exchanging your blocked modem for a new one removes the shaping, at least until you start downloading heavily again. I plan to exchange my modem and now that I've figured out what's going on, will be more careful about spacing out my downloads.
Shaping isn't applied to modems directly and swapping modems would have no effect on the shaping itself.

You really sound like you have a signal (likely) or local bandwidth issue (a little less likely)...