Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User in Road Runner http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18468524 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:12:12 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 11:12:12 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19940217 anon : It's been about a week and my speeds remain high and stable. It looks like in my case, Road Runner fixed a problem with my building's tap and restored my speeds.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19940217 Tue, 05 Feb 2008 16:51:24 EDT Re: Is there something wrong with the NYC server for speedtest.n http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19911509 MacLeech :
said by pL86 :

So is something up with the NY server on speedtest?
Yes, the speedtest.net NY server has had issues with slow speeds for months.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19911509 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:54:44 EDT Is there something wrong with the NYC server for speedtest.n http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19911416 anon : So I decided to run some more speed tests just now since this was witching hour, when the speeds would typically drop dead. I remembered previously, I had run speed tests only using Road Runner's test at speedtest.nyc.rr.com so I decided to head over to speedtest.net (incidentally, there was other evidence that my speeds were fine like getting torrent downloads in the 700 kB/s range, which is fantastic). I used the New York server and pings were low but my downloads were only showing in the 3000-5000 range. Uh oh. Problem not fixed?

I went to speakeasy.net and it said I was getting 9000+, same as the Road Runner test. I returned to speedtest.net and ran a test using the Clifton, NJ server. It also reported 9000+ download. I even tried the San Francisco server and, although ping times were above 100ms, download transfers were in the 9000 kbps range. So is something up with the NY server on speedtest?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19911416 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:39:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19909968 jig : well, consistently, solidly bad over a long period of time replaced with at least some good usually means something has been fixed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19909968 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:36:01 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19908932 wkpower : you've only tested this for one night? try testing it for a week or more and see what happens. my problems seem to fix themselves on its own sometimes and that lasts for about a day or two. usually a day. last week my entire cable service went out, tv and internet, for over 24 hours. this affected my entire block. when service was restored, i found my speeds to be in tip-top shape, even during peak hours. then the next day, it went back to crap. seems like the node gets congested after heavy use and it needs a reset every once in a while. either that or its just broken.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19908932 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:05:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19908596 anon : Knock on wood but my problems appear to have been fixed. Last time I posted over a week ago, the L3 techs who came to look at my apartment ended up booking a follow up to check my building's tap. They said the crew would probably be out by the end of last week. It appears the crew did come out and fix whatever problem has been killing my speeds. Last night I noticed that during the peak hours when my speed would degrade like clockwork, everything was fine. I ran some speedtests and they was maxing out. I hope I'm not jinxing this but Time Warner appears to have come through. My speculation that my connection was being throttled appears to have been wrong.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19908596 Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:03:52 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895583 sovere1gnty :
said by spissed off user :

I only demand what I was offered, and am paying for 4 mega bytes PER second down and 756 kilo bytes up. If they want to traffic shape my connection I feel I should be able to sue for fraud and false advertisement. That or I'll start money shaping my monthly payments. :P
Correct limits for upload and download are 4Mbps (Megabits) download and 384 Kbps upload (Kilobits). Never heard of a 756 Kbps plan so you may want to look into that to see if you have the correct numbers.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19895583 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 11:36:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894273 Pizz : very interesting events. please keep us posted. i have a feeling you got flagged, and the old cablevision throttling kicked in.

just my opinion :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894273 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:00:52 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894182 anon : I only demand what I was offered, and am paying for 4 mega bytes PER second down and 756 kilo bytes up. If they want to traffic shape my connection I feel I should be able to sue for fraud and false advertisement. That or I'll start money shaping my monthly payments. :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19894182 Tue, 29 Jan 2008 06:17:18 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19875251 jig : keep us updated]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19875251 Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:35:35 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19873969 anon : Here's an update on my situation if you're interested:

Two Level 3 techs came to my apartment on Wednesday night. At first, they seemed stumped by my problem. They definitely saw the download speed problems I'm having - they ran speed tests from a number of sites, including the speedtest on DSL Reports - and I was getting 3000 kbits/sec downloads, a third of where it should be. But apparently, my signals tested fine. They ran a continuous ping test and saw some packet loss but not apparently at an excessive level. They speculated that maybe another user on my node was running a server during the evening hours. One tech said that happened with a case downtown, which took months to track down. The other tech was very frustrated and said they had many meetings about bandwidth usage but that management was sticking with its policy that Road Runner doesn't cap. He mentioned with approval that Cablevision did cap and seemed to wish Road Runner did as well. They seemed to be leaning to saying that while I had intermittent speed problems and some packet loss, it wasn't severe enough to trigger additional followup.

Eventually, they left my apartment to test the node in my building that I'm hooked up to. They weren't the most talkative pair but when they got back, it seems that they found something because they said they would book a ticket and another crew would come out to check the building's tap. One of them said that there was definitely a problem. So maybe my conviction that Road Runner was throttling was premature. Hopefully, the next crew will figure out exactly what's going on and fix it. I won't get a personal followup from the next crew but I will report if my problem clears up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19873969 Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:00:16 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19835551 anon :
said by Trinary :

And of course it could just be that the modem couldn't handle the amount of connection.

My router originally couldn't deal with high number of connection due to it's setting. After I flashed it with a new firmware and changed some settings (like to not keep remembering old connections), it becomes much more stable.
I just don't think that's it. I've had Road Runner at my present location for 2 1/2 years now. I had Road Runner before at other locations for another 2 1/2 years meaning I've been a Road Runner user for five years now. I've been using torrents for around 3 years now, using the same settings with the same RCA modem brand and I've never had the systemic problems that I'm having now. Sure, there have been days when the connection was slow or it went out because of a service problem. But it's only been recently, maybe the last two months or so, that I've started having the kind of problem that I described.

Plus, as I said in my original post, the throttling seems to be triggered by bittorrent use but it is applied to ALL internet traffic, including traffic that doesn't use multiple connections like bittorrent does. For example, last night at 3 o'clock in the morning, after I got connection errors in bittorrent and I suspected the traffic management had kicked in, I killed my torrents and tried to load the Google home page. My browser timed out! On Google, one of the simplest web pages out there! And it timed out on other very simple web sites. If the problem was the modem being overloaded by multiple connections, then stopping the torrents, rebooting the modem and loading up a simple web page shouldn't be affected. Yet, it was.

And yes, I've just returned from swapping out my modem again and my connection is perfect again. I do have a Level 3 tech coming next week to check out my line but I really don't think he's going to find anything. I'll post after he comes. Maybe I'm wrong, I sure hope I am. I'd rather it be a line issue than a policy change but I'm not so optimistic.

peter]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19835551 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:00:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19835457 anon : by that idiotic logic, 90% of users should be offered a lower package based on their needs.

Meanwhile, those who want faster speeds should pay for premium.

Oops! They already had that in place and are now just trying to put the screws to everyone.

Get over it, RR sucks. I used to have them in socal and the moment fios was available I left. I suggest everyone to do the same, you'll never look back. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19835457 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:40:13 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19833978 NiceGuyNY21 :
said by derk See Profile :

said by NiceGuyNY21 See Profile :

At least with all the TWC-RR Neo support folks, I have complained to as long as my line is up and running, NO ONE has offered to help. They treat me like I just want to download P2P (which isn't the case).
im sorry that you've been treated that way...its understandable why they would think that, most people that do just normal browsing/internet, downloads periodically will never really be effected by packetshaping...so 90% of the people that have the service will never likely even notice, the way it's designed is to only effect the top 5-10% of the users that cost 10x more than what they're paying for...i wish you luck with dsl...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19833978 Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:39:28 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19829832 anon : And of course it could just be that the modem couldn't handle the amount of connection.

My router originally couldn't deal with high number of connection due to it's setting. After I flashed it with a new firmware and changed some settings (like to not keep remembering old connections), it becomes much more stable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19829832 Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:22:35 EDT Re: Packeting shaping has arrived in NYC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810979 MacLeech :
said by pL86 :

I've had some problems recently with simple websites stalling, internet connection cutting off completely. I thought it was a problem with DNS servers. I ran ping tests with Road Runner support and one second, it would be fine, no packet loss, then literally a second later, complete 100% packet loss. Maybe it was my line so I scheduled a Level 3 tech to come out and investigate. Before the appointment, I decided to swap out my modem. Voila, problems fixed! So I thought it was a bad modem.

Over the weekend, I did some heavy bit torrent downloading. And the problems that I experienced before returned. I just started downloading a regular update to a program and in the middle of the download, the transfer rate simple zeroed out. I've never seen that before until very, very recently. The first time I started experiencing this problem, it also coincided with heavy bit torrent use. I believe these internet disruptions and the torrent downloading are not coincidences but causal.

I know there are people here who say the traffic shaping shouldn't affect regular surfing but I believe they're simply wrong, clinging to theory (should work) and refusing to listen to real world user reports (does work). I'm sure the shaping isn't SUPPOSED to affect regular traffic but I bet the software isn't perfect and it is overzealous. I'm never completely cut off for long, 30-60 seconds, but I am definitely cut off and regular surfing to sites like CNN or Microsoft stall, even during off-peak times like 3 a.m.

The good "news" is that the shaping appears to be applied to a specific modem, not your entire account, so exchanging your blocked modem for a new one removes the shaping, at least until you start downloading heavily again. I plan to exchange my modem and now that I've figured out what's going on, will be more careful about spacing out my downloads.
Shaping isn't applied to modems directly and swapping modems would have no effect on the shaping itself.

You really sound like you have a signal (likely) or local bandwidth issue (a little less likely)...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810979 Wed, 16 Jan 2008 02:48:39 EDT Packeting shaping has arrived in NYC http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810088 anon : I've had some problems recently with simple websites stalling, internet connection cutting off completely. I thought it was a problem with DNS servers. I ran ping tests with Road Runner support and one second, it would be fine, no packet loss, then literally a second later, complete 100% packet loss. Maybe it was my line so I scheduled a Level 3 tech to come out and investigate. Before the appointment, I decided to swap out my modem. Voila, problems fixed! So I thought it was a bad modem.

Over the weekend, I did some heavy bit torrent downloading. And the problems that I experienced before returned. I just started downloading a regular update to a program and in the middle of the download, the transfer rate simple zeroed out. I've never seen that before until very, very recently. The first time I started experiencing this problem, it also coincided with heavy bit torrent use. I believe these internet disruptions and the torrent downloading are not coincidences but causal.

I know there are people here who say the traffic shaping shouldn't affect regular surfing but I believe they're simply wrong, clinging to theory (should work) and refusing to listen to real world user reports (does work). I'm sure the shaping isn't SUPPOSED to affect regular traffic but I bet the software isn't perfect and it is overzealous. I'm never completely cut off for long, 30-60 seconds, but I am definitely cut off and regular surfing to sites like CNN or Microsoft stall, even during off-peak times like 3 a.m.

The good "news" is that the shaping appears to be applied to a specific modem, not your entire account, so exchanging your blocked modem for a new one removes the shaping, at least until you start downloading heavily again. I plan to exchange my modem and now that I've figured out what's going on, will be more careful about spacing out my downloads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19810088 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:08:22 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19728361 derk :
said by NiceGuyNY21 See Profile :

its kind of funny i was only aware of one area officially using packetshaping, and its not in ohio period... anyhow neo is a sucky market to sub to cable internet as well as pretty much anywhere in ohio...i feel your pain...good luck with dsl.
You are probably right that it's a NEO overall problem and not packetshaping. When I moved to Cleveland in 2000, the cable service was Cablevision. Soon it was Adelphia and just last year, it became TWC-RR. The infrastructure I am betting in this area is a mess.

I guess there has been an equally crazy transition for Ohio bell to Ameritech to SBC to ATT. But really I have only witnessed the Ohio bell to Ameritech/SBC/ATT transition.

In July 2006, after a great year flawless ATT Yahoo DSL service, I had major problems. It took a lot of calls to fix an inside wiring problem, a problem with the line from NID to outside pole and ultimately getting a brand new circuit. They solved it.

At least with all the TWC-RR Neo support folks, I have complained to as long as my line is up and running, NO ONE has offered to help. They treat me like I just want to download P2P (which isn't the case).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19728361 Wed, 02 Jan 2008 23:17:07 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19714667 NiceGuyNY21 :
said by derk See Profile :

said by sovere1gnty See Profile :

said by derk See Profile :

I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing.
its kind of funny i was only aware of one area officially using packetshaping, and its not in ohio period... anyhow neo is a sucky market to sub to cable internet as well as pretty much anywhere in ohio...i feel your pain...good luck with dsl.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19714667 Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:09:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19691336 derk :
said by sovere1gnty See Profile :

said by derk See Profile :

I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing. I can run a speedtest and get great speeds and latency. BUT when I try and download a big file (non p2p) from msdn.microsoft.com or from ftp.redhat.com it's dialup speeds.

I could be wrong maybe it's that my area (NEO) is oversold via cable modem service, but the download speeds are atrocious during the day. I definitely think the culprit is packet shaping.
You probably have some underlying problem. Start a thread, ask for help and post the requested info. Packetshaping is transparent and will not affect normal downloads such as updates from Microsoft.
Well, it's probably a widespread issue in my area (NEO). I have read other folks complaining of the same thing. Good web surfing speeds but downloading during off peak or peak hours is down to dial up speeds.

Anyhow, I am back to ATT DSL with a cheaper price than TWC-RR and at the advertised speeds. The only way TWC-RR would lower my price is if I chose another cable tv package (which I didn't want to do). ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19691336 Thu, 27 Dec 2007 08:23:55 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19688307 sovere1gnty :
said by derk See Profile :

I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing. I can run a speedtest and get great speeds and latency. BUT when I try and download a big file (non p2p) from msdn.microsoft.com or from ftp.redhat.com it's dialup speeds.

I could be wrong maybe it's that my area (NEO) is oversold via cable modem service, but the download speeds are atrocious during the day. I definitely think the culprit is packet shaping.
You probably have some underlying problem. Start a thread, ask for help and post the requested info. Packetshaping is transparent and will not affect normal downloads such as updates from Microsoft.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19688307 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:57:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19688191 derk : I am cancelling TWC-RR NEO after having it for 18 months. This packet shaping is disturbing. I can run a speedtest and get great speeds and latency. BUT when I try and download a big file (non p2p) from msdn.microsoft.com or from ftp.redhat.com it's dialup speeds.

I could be wrong maybe it's that my area (NEO) is oversold via cable modem service, but the download speeds are atrocious during the day. I definitely think the culprit is packet shaping. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19688191 Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:32:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19637651 Selenia : Well I think my node is oversold these days, but this shaping seems to be fairly transparent now. Everything works fine but for ping spikes in the evening(they could be much worse, I used to have Rogers before I moved to the US). Everything works fine but for when BT is running. Encryption seems to beat that, as long as it's set to only initiate and accept such connections. If there is a lack of peers supporting it, a tunnel seems to do the trick.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19637651 Mon, 17 Dec 2007 11:44:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19582608 xNBKxZ3r0 : I've been a TWC customer since October. I had Cox back in Sept. and never got any notice providing any of that info. Of course Las Vegas has totally different rules and regulations than most other states. I'm not sure if Sandvine was aloud in Vegas but at this point anything is possible now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19582608 Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:10:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19575238 Xizer :
said by xNBKxZ3r0 See Profile :

I was a former Cox customer in Las Vegas before I moved to Moreno Valley, CA. Not once did I ever experience any issues with my connection. I would have to say that Cox had the most stable connection in Vegas than anyone else. I did use utorrent and never had problems with my downloads. But with TWC I've had nothing but problems from install date till present.
I was once a Cox customer as well. Things have changed in the past few months. Did you miss the notice that was posted in the news section a few weeks ago about them employing Sandvine?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19575238 Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:18:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19574018 xNBKxZ3r0 : I was a former Cox customer in Las Vegas before I moved to Moreno Valley, CA. Not once did I ever experience any issues with my connection. I would have to say that Cox had the most stable connection in Vegas than anyone else. I did use utorrent and never had problems with my downloads. But with TWC I've had nothing but problems from install date till present. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19574018 Thu, 06 Dec 2007 10:51:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19573009 OB Kenobi :
said by ututman4 :

Will this explain the internet cutting off every 10 minutes?
No, that is just standard TWC service.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19573009 Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:33:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19571412 Xizer : You people also seem to be forgetting about Cox and Comcast.

Both of these ISPs employ Sandvine, and I have personally experienced problems trying to download from a torrent with solely Comcast and Cox users seeding. I could usually download for about 15 seconds and then the connection would drop. I had to keep stopping and starting the torrent to inch my way along to completion.

This might not even be a problem on Time Warner's end, it could be a problem like I have described.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19571412 Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:57:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19554922 SB7785 : Selenia, I use Utorrent. What are some suggested settings for max half open connections etc?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19554922 Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:36:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19554390 Selenia :
said by Xizer See Profile :

said by Tom_S See Profile :

For several months I have been a customer of Time Warner Cable. I had a standard RR account. Around the middle of June this year, I began having problems using Bit Comet.
Problem found. At this point the post should end.
lol well Bitcomet is not the problem in respect to this, though that client is a problem for the sharing community at large. Neither is TWC. I have experienced TWC shaping and while it really sucks, it does not cut your connection. It's likely one of a few things. A) Your modem cannot handle lots of connections gracefully and lags or crashes. B) Your router cannot gracefully handle lots of connection, then lags or crashes. C) You have the max half open and/or max connections set way too high for your client and either the hardware can't handle it or you're getting snubbed for spreading your upload too thin. The solution to those 3 is turning down your max connections and max half-open in the client. It could also be D) You run Service Pack 2 and have not patched tcp.sys to handle the half open connections, causing Windows not to allow any new connections. As old ones die and are not detected right away, you may have no room for useful connections, D) Part 2 is you run Vista and have the client's max set too high.

Anyways, the Windows network stack sucks and so do alot of cheap modems and routers. If you want to be hardcore, use a Linux box, buy a good modem, and use an old pc running smoothwall through a hub as your router(you can even build a little underclocked box that uses little power and needs no fans). Otherwise, just chill on the number of connections you make. They are useless beyond a certain number anyways,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19554390 Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:08:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19505146 Stem Bolt : I posted this info over in the filesharing forum but looks like it could be of use here. For those who are considering looking for an alternative to bittorrents or new usenet providers. The providers offer unlimited accounts, have at least 100 days retention, and charge less then $15. Several offer free SSL.

»www.megabitz.net/

110 days retention, free SSL, $13.95 a month- unlimited, 8 connections with quarterly plan, 5 connections on the month to month plan.

»www.newsrazor.net/

100+ days retention, $10.95 for the first 3 months - then $14.95 there after, 10 connections

»www.blocknews.net/

100+ days retention, free SSL, $14.89 a month- unlimited, 12 connections

»eweka.nl/en/home//

Located in The Netherlands.
120 days retention, 7.50 Euro a month- which converts to $11.12 U.S.- unlimited, 8 connections,

»www.hitnews.eu/english/

Also located in The Netherlands.
100 days retention, free SSL, 6.50 Euro a month- which converts to $9.65 U.S. - unlimited, 8 connections]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19505146 Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:13:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19505053 GTaylor : My only other option here is AT&T and they're just as bad, but at the pace RR is going they're looking better every day.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19505053 Sun, 25 Nov 2007 11:56:48 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19503521 Xizer :
said by Tom_S See Profile :

For several months I have been a customer of Time Warner Cable. I had a standard RR account. Around the middle of June this year, I began having problems using Bit Comet.
Problem found. At this point the post should end.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19503521 Sun, 25 Nov 2007 00:21:57 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19503507 Tom_S : For several months I have been a customer of Time Warner Cable. I had a standard RR account. Around the middle of June this year, I began having problems using Bit Comet. I would start downloading several torrents, and when coming back to check on them, would notice both the DL and UL rates had degenerated to 0. Also, when I tried to access any other other Internet facet (Http/Instant Messengers/etc) it appeared as though I had no connection, although the on-line light was still on. I originally thought it was because I had recently upgraded my version of Bit Comet, but it was also happening, if not nearly so often, to my roommate. Unfortunately, I had no knowledge of any sort of traffic maintenance technology. I could still get max DL/UL speed for several hours at a time, so I just considered it a minor inconvenience and dealt with it. Earlier this month, I moved to another location, and had RR installed there. Several days of the same, then suddenly, I was getting disconnected in a matter of minutes. I downloaded Azureus, thinking maybe it was just a problem with Bit Comet. For about a day, it seemed to work. Then I came home after staying at a friend's house one night, and again, my internet was still connected, I could access nothing. I reset my modem, and the torrents started downloading again, but went down to 0K/s in a matter of minutes. It was at this time that I started looking for answers on help forums. I soon found out about traffic shaping, and used all the prescribed fixes to try and bypass it (encryption,port forwarding,etc), and notice little improvement. I happened upon an obscure page on the TW website showing that there was a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. Finally, I called TW and cancelled my account.

I returned the equipment immediately and requested a refund as I was within the 30 day period. The desk secretary said she would have to leave a memo for her supervisor, as she did not know as to whether or not I was entitled to a refund. I went home, called tech support, and explained my situation. Amazingly, the technician knew what I was talking about, and told me that "virtually every ISP now uses traffic shaping.' After trying to con me into upgrading to the Turbo account, he realised I was not changing my mind, and informed me that I would be receiving a check in the mail for a full refund. That was yesterday, so it may be a while before I receive it.

My friend, who also has RR, was not as badly affected as me. Though she still suffers low speeds, her connection is not completely frozen like mine. This might be attributable to the fact that she has a different modem than me.

So to all the skeptics. Time Warner IS and HAS BEEN using traffic shaping. Some people may not be affected as strongly, or, at all by it, if they are lucky, but if you get a knowledgeable enough technician, they will tell you it is FACT, not speculation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19503507 Sun, 25 Nov 2007 00:18:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19121842 djrobx : If traffic shaping is implemented at all, and if it's implemented properly, it's supposed to only affect certain types of "chronically high consumption" services like usenet and torrents during high traffic periods. In theory, it would protect other types of traffic (web, gaming, etc) from slowing down due to the former types of activities when their network is peaked out.

--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19121842 Fri, 21 Sep 2007 21:48:22 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19116176 anon : I read the first three pages, and that's what I got out of it. There's not way I'm reading all 28 pages.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19116176 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:39:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19116150 hobgoblin :
said by ututman4 :

So the whole thing will just end up slowing down our internet to a speed much less than we pay for?
No...Read the thread.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19116150 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:33:55 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19116129 anon : So the whole thing will just end up slowing down our internet to a speed much less than we pay for?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19116129 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:28:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19115884 hobgoblin :
said by ututman4 :

Will this explain the internet cutting off every 10 minutes? Often times websites won't load and AIM cuts off. Could this explain it all? Plus, online gaming is sucking it up.
No its nothing to do with it.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19115884 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:46:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19115819 anon : Will this explain the internet cutting off every 10 minutes? Often times websites won't load and AIM cuts off. Could this explain it all? Plus, online gaming is sucking it up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19115819 Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:35:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19071896 Mele20 : Hmmm...so it is not just Hawaii seeing a disappearance of ATDN. I wonder what is going on...

I do believe ATDN is dead or almost so. Site has a copywrite date of 2003. The Server certificate is outdated as June 28, 2007. One page on the site has a more recent date of Feb 2006. Looking at the map there, there are (were) FOUR connections from Hawaii to two locations in Los Angeles, one in San Jose and one in Sunnyvale. No wonder that I had perfect speed to everywhere on the Mainland from summer 2003-Jan 2005 (with a few trouble times that fixed). My speed then, when the cap was 3000kbps was 3100-3200 even on nac.net speed test.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19071896 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 02:18:18 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19070386 Selenia :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

So are you seeing a lot of traffic on L3 rather than on ATDN? ATDN is so much better than L3 and I can't figure out why ATDN has been almost dropped from any usage here in Hawaii. I far preferred it to L3...especially the mess with L3 in Los Angeles that all routing is forced through now from Hawaii.
Almost all my traffic is on level3 these days and only very rare sites use ATDN. This used to be the opposite. Even this site used to route through ATDN but now it routes through level3 for me. Even all servers internationally handoff through level3 to the foreign backbone, though in the case of Europe, it usually hands off to level3 over there then hands over to a direct peer of X host. In the case of my torrent server I told you about, it goes RR->level3 USA, level3 Europe-> Tiscali(a direct peer of theirs)-> my host. Almost all in Europe follow the same kind of path, except a few don't leave level3 at all before reaching the host, which probably means level3 peers directly with them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19070386 Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:23:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19068034 dbmaven : "PINGS" and "LATENCY" have nothing whatsoever to do with packet shaping.

From this point forward, any posts that are not diretly related to packet shaping and the original topic will be deleted.

If you're having a "problem" with latency/pings/line quality, look for a recent thread that's dealing with your geographic area, or start a new thread.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19068034 Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:43:30 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19067981 anon : WEll, I have been getting really high pings lateley. My latency for NYC gaming servers is usually between 20-40. Around 7:30EST, my ping gradually increases. By 9:00 i have over 200ms. I am so fed up, and FIoS is not in my neighborhood yet. They are sending someone out to take a look at this. They denied that it had anything to do with the packet shaping, and said it is most likely caused by a weak signal. I have been living in the same place for 4 years, and have never had this problem before the last 3 weeks. Hmmm ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19067981 Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:33:55 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19062376 Mele20 : So are you seeing a lot of traffic on L3 rather than on ATDN? ATDN is so much better than L3 and I can't figure out why ATDN has been almost dropped from any usage here in Hawaii. I far preferred it to L3...especially the mess with L3 in Los Angeles that all routing is forced through now from Hawaii.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19062376 Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:54:12 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19061293 Selenia : Hob is trying to say to redo it on another server because the one in NY is not operating correctly, which could also make it measure a bad ping falsely. btw @ Matt123, was this taken on Monday? I was having a crap time on almost anything Monday, which seems to be becoming a trend. Tuesday it was fine, today fine as well. It seems very local servers are fine on Monday as well, but nothing else is, even just several states away, nevermind international. I am beginning to possibly blame level3 and not Time Warner as I look at latency at different hops, mainly the variance being greater than normal highs and lows.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19061293 Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:23:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19059540 alienstout : Well it may not affect speed tests but look at his ping! Good luck trying to game for long with that lag.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19059540 Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:55:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19056748 hobgoblin :
said by Matt123 :

Hi its peak time right now and this is what i am getting.



So much for my 10mbps down
Two points:

Packet shaping does not affect speed tests
the speedtest server in NY has been forked for weeks.
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19056748 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:48:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19056611 Anonymous_ : i would have an bad ass Ratio with that 10Gig/

is that up or down]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19056611 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:31:28 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19056124 anon : Hi its peak time right now and this is what i am getting.



So much for my 10mbps down]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19056124 Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:23:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19040666 MacLeech :
said by Xizer See Profile :

Where does Time Warner offer 80 Mbps service?!!
Check here:
»twcbc.com/corporate/products/dat···?menu=85
said by Time Warner Business Class website :
Bandwidth available from 1 Mbps to 10 Gbps.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19040666 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 13:19:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19040544 Xizer :
said by FTW :

I pay for 10MB I should get 10MB period!
Holy shit! Where does Time Warner offer 80 Mbps service?!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19040544 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 12:50:55 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039373 Anonymous_ : :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

That would be useful. Thank you.

Having made the comment I did about Linux downloads always being slow, I just downloaded Ubuntu from »www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloa···Download
at 550KB/sec. I was quite surprised as about six months ago, ubuntu was very slow downloading.
i am only getting 500KByte/s

Nice Try..... :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039373 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 05:23:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039371 Anonymous_ :
said by FTW :

I pay for 10MBit/s I should get 10MBit/s period!

fixed it for you]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039371 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 05:21:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039011 anon : I pay for 10MB I should get 10MB period!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039011 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 01:33:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19037145 anon : TWC has no reason to upgrade... In 90%+ of the cities TWC operates in, there is not competition that offers anything higher than what they do... So wheres the reasoning?

I would think that the real answer is for more competition of reliable HSD connections be established before we see anything new from TWC.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19037145 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:09:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19036792 anon : I pay almost $200 a month for 10/1 with a static and TV I should be able to do what I want, they make enough money to upgrade!

Look at FIOS from Verizon 35/5 for $180 and 15/2 for $50

TW needs to F'N wake the h*ll up!

The internet is growing not slowing!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19036792 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:07:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18973113 anon : if you wish to defeat the packet shaping on news servers using port 119, just enable SSL encryption and move to a non standard nntp port. this way you will go back up to full speed ahead ;-)

they wont be able to prove what the data is your moving across their lines... so your safe ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18973113 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:55:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18963979 Mele20 : That would be useful. Thank you.

Having made the comment I did about Linux downloads always being slow, I just downloaded Ubuntu from »www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/downloa···Download
at 550KB/sec. I was quite surprised as about six months ago, ubuntu was very slow downloading.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18963979 Tue, 28 Aug 2007 02:44:17 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18947503 Selenia : It's not where the site is, it's where the peers are. I have a seedbox for torrents in EU and could pass you a .torrent of legal content so you can see how your speed is. This box is optimally tuned to the point that I max out from it here on the East Coast when I'm not being shaped. I still get about 600 KB/sec off it when I am.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18947503 Sat, 25 Aug 2007 11:26:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18946787 Mele20 : The node is not congested. I get excellent speed and pings on Ping Plotter to the "mini" Hawaii RR RDC at Mililani, Oahu. The problem I suspect is from the main RDC at Orange Road Runner in California. Hawaii has taken a beating from all that mess there in Los Angeles.

U. Hawaii Web100 based Network Diagnostic Tool (NDT)
TCP/Web100 Network Diagnostic Tool v5.3.3a
click START to begin
Checking for Middleboxes . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Done
running 10s outbound test (client to server) . . . . . 368.94Kb/s
running 10s inbound test (server to client) . . . . . . 4.90Mb/s
Your PC is connected to a Cable/DSL modem

Oceanic: using Sun Java on XP Pro SP1 on a VMWare virtual machine:
4.92/410
QOS 97%, RTT 21ms, max pause 115ms

Oceanic: using MSJVM on XP Pro SP2 on my host machine:
4.86/420
QOS 99%, RTT 17ms, max pause 16ms

"Maximum pause" says VisualWare's MySpeed Help should ALWAYS be below 100ms.
I think that 115ms is falsely inflated because it was on a virtual machine.
On the host machine it is usually about 16ms doing the Oceanic test. When
Oceanic is having problems it shoots way up to maybe 600-1000ms.

I'm using the Java version of the tests:
Megapath SanFranciso:
3714 / 140 (Kbps)

Speakeasy, Palo Alto:
4625 / 331 (Kbps)

Linkline, Los Angeles:
4625 / 350 (Kbps)

NetAccess New Jersey:
2411 / 342

Speakeasy New York:
3391 / 343

DSL Extreme: (chose Southern California)
4223 / 360 (Kbps)

UC Santa Cruz Web100 based Network Diagnostic Tool (NDT)
4.57ms/358kbps

:::.. testmy.net test results ..:::
Download Connection is:: 5076 Kbps about 5.08 Mbps (tested with 5983 kB)
Download Speed is:: 620 kB/s
Upload Connection is:: 343 Kbps about 0.3 Mbps (tested with 579 kB)
Upload Speed is:: 42 kB/s
Tested From:: »testmy.net (Main)
Test Time:: 2007/08/12 - 2:34am
D-Validation Link:: »testmy.net/stats/id-XFB471YOE
U-Validation Link:: »testmy.net/stats/id-UOHQ0LC53
User Agent:: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; ; rv:1.8.1)
Gecko/20061010 Firefox/1.9.0.1 [!]

ANL Web100 based Network Diagnostic Tester (NDT)
National Science Foundation - VA
4.32ms/361kbps

Those are mostly good speeds (except for East Coast) but I don't see the equivalent when I download from websites or from BitTorrent. Except I get good download speed sometimes from Pirate's Bay. Why I don't know since that is in Europe. I have only downloaded a few times from there and once was extremely slow but the last time was fast. I almost never get above 300KB/sec from website downloads no matter where the website is located. Most downloads are at around 150-200KB/sec. When we had a 3ms cap (before Jan 2005), I got 365-370KB/sec on almost any download anywhere in the USA at any time of day or night. That changed drastically and immediately upon upgrade to 5ms down and while speed tests generally look ok (especially late at night when I did those above), actual download speeds are lousy from most every site (or via BitTorrent). Ironic that I had better download speed when the cap was 3ms than I do with it at 5ms.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18946787 Sat, 25 Aug 2007 07:12:13 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18946466 Selenia : @Mele20, your speeds are much worse than the shaping here, how congested is your node? Try off people from japan, it's probably the closest routing for you, given how my traceroutes from servers I run go and it's almost the only Asian country with a few ISPs that do not throttle.

@vick04 Not really true. Hawaii usually bounces straight to California on RR due to their network setup. This has been proven by people here in the past who submitted traceroutes. So actually downloading from CA peers might be ok for mele20 as well but Japan has fatter pipes(I download some Japanese content myself). EU would likely be horrible going over the stretch from HI to CA then likely over level 3 to above.net before hitting Global Crossing(glbx) or ATDN, depending seemingly on the server's peering on the other end.(RR generally prefers ATDN if something can be routed directly, but this is in the hands of its peers to an extent).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18946466 Sat, 25 Aug 2007 03:33:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18940182 vick04 : Mele20 your problem is not packet shapping. Your problem is simply your location. You are getting slow speeds downloading linux distros because most of the seeds are people in the us. You got better speeds on pirate bay because most seeds on there are from european countrys. The way time warner routeing is setup you would be better off downloading from sites outside of the us.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18940182 Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:27:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18939879 Mele20 : I turned off the router, unplugged the modem, rebooted and plogged the modem directly to the computer. No difference in download speed of that Linux distro. The problem is NOT the router and it not because I won't use that patch because both Bit Torrent and the link you provided state that the patch is totally unnecessary. I already proved it isn't ICF.

Linux distros are the very slowest of anything to get on BitTorrent. Anything Linux is going to be extremely slow. I have gotten with the router running, and ICF on, and no tcpip patch, 350KB/sec from Pirate's Bay so I think the problem is that you told me to try a very slow download...Linux stuff is always slow...I never want to get Linux on BitTorrent.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18939879 Fri, 24 Aug 2007 08:19:56 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18938436 Mele20 : That's not my router. :) I enabled UPnP in the router some time ago for Microsoft live folders and my reward was to get locked out of the router interface. (I later learned here that this has happened to most everyone using this particular Linksy router due to a bug Linksy never bothered fixing and the only solution is to reset it to factory defaults which is a hassle because I use beta firmware). At any rate, UpnP is enabled in the router.

BitTorrent does not list my router as problematic for a large number of connections (it lists ver 4 only of my router).

According to those links you gave me it is unnecessary to apply that tcpip patch if using utorrent and I would assume the same for BitTorrent and there are dangers in using it plus my AV alerts on it and excluding in Avira is the pits (I just complained again about that in their forum).

ICF has BitTorrent in the exceptions list so it should not causing any problems.

I'll install BitTorrent on my virtual XP Pro SP1 machine and see if it is the 10 connection attempt limit in Service Pack 2 that is causing a problem on the host machine.

EDIT: I installed BitTorrent on my virtual machine on XP Pro SP1 with no connection attempt limits and that made no difference. I was getting no higher than 125KB/sec on that Linux download after an hour. Most of the time it was around 50KB/sec.

--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18938436 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 23:33:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937834 war59312 : They where not, it was a bug with the packet shaping. That's all. Not everyone was effected, in fact I was told only a handful of people in my area where.
--
GOD BLESS THE U.S.A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937834 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:09:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937513 Anonymous_ : well

your running an firewall

a router that is not port forwarded -----see this Guide »www.portforward.com/english/rout···rent.htm

and your using xp sp2 with out tcpip patch (EventID 4226)
got to fix these if you want it to work

»utorrent.com/faq.php#I_get_a_soc···nt_halts

»utorrent.com/faq.php#Why_are_my_···_slow.3F]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937513 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:30:17 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937481 Mele20 :
said by Anonymous_ See Profile :

Well your in HI maybe that is why?
maybe too many Peers ?
slow seeds?

try that linux iso
Yeah...I got 7KB today for the linux iso. Last night, for about two minutes it went as high as 560KB then dropped to 120KB and down again to 84KB until I paused it. I have never gotten decent download on any BitTorrent. BitTorrent is MUCH slower download always than downloading from a website or FTP.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937481 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:25:47 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18935034 Selenia :
said by djrobx See Profile :

Why would they start shaping XBox 360 traffic then stop later?

This thread is making it abundantly clear to me why ISPs are so secretive about policy changes. At this rate someone's going claim Traffic Shaping gave them gonorrhea! :)
But it did I tell you! No but seriously, it could have been a mistake at their end. Many might recall the traffic shaping case in the UK with Talk Talk where World of Warcraft was accidentally all but blocked. My friend had pings from 2000-5000 ms until they finally fixed that(since then he's dumped that ISP). I can give some indisputables. I never had issues with peak time speeds but now the most I can get off Usenet during peak(and it's a sharp dropoff) is about 600-650 KB/sec unsteady. During the day, I get what I used to get which is my full 10 mbps or about 1.2 MB/sec steady. This has been repeated and consistent, unlike torrents where seeders could simply be blamed unless you know a particular seeder's normal line performance. TWC isn't shutting off torrents as my speeds are sometimes comparable to Usenet on well seeded torrents with seedboxes. I tested off my box to determine torrent speed results and it seems no more shaped than Usenet, though encryption gives me full speed back.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18935034 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:22:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18933806 djrobx : Why would they start shaping XBox 360 traffic then stop later?

This thread is making it abundantly clear to me why ISPs are so secretive about policy changes. At this rate someone's going claim Traffic Shaping gave them gonorrhea! :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18933806 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 12:15:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932209 Anonymous_ : Well your in HI maybe that is why?
maybe too many Peers ?
slow seeds?

try that linux iso]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932209 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 05:03:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932166 Mele20 : Hmph...I can't download more than one torrent at a time and never get above 250KB/sec and usually more like 40KB/sec. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932166 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 04:25:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18931860 Anonymous_ : were talking about upload
(Seeding)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18931860 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 01:34:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18931532 Xizer : Meh, I think the problem is being exaggerated. I haven't experienced any problems with torrents.
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18931532 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:19:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18930626 Selenia : Slow down guys, the problem only lasted a few days as I thought my post implied. As I said, packet shaping even in the worst implementations is not meant to affect that kind of traffic, but I think there was an aberration around here they fixed. I was on Rogers when they just started doing this heavily(yes, I'm from Canada) and my XBL pings were fine on them. Seemed to be some kind of control, if not the shaping itself, as my pings and speeds on some other things were fine during the evenings I was having an issue,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18930626 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:49:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18930604 Baseline : They're shaping XBlive traffic now?

Geez. 360 users just can't get a break. It's bad enough the vast majority are gonna get a RROD and have to go into the vicious service cycle if they haven't already.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18930604 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 21:47:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18924491 war59312 : They where! It has been fixed. Was a "bug". Yeah right, but either way working fine now...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18924491 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 04:20:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18917338 kshymkiw : How do you know they are packet shaping your XBL connection? My PS3 connection works just fine. OH NOES THAT MEANS TWC HATES MICROSOFT BUT LOOOOOOOOVES SONY.

seriously now.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18917338 Tue, 21 Aug 2007 08:29:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916607 Anonymous_ : »Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User

Packet Shaping

is a myth

and is Busted

Terayon TJ715x Would not break 125KByte/s
Moto SB5100 would not go any faster then 500KByte/s
Ambit SpeedStrem u10C018 900KByte/s to 1.1MByte/s

Upload At 85KByte/s

using 10/1 on RoadRunner]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916607 Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:47:11 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916471 hayabusa3303 :
said by Selenia See Profile :

It was but now it doesn't seem to. Maybe TWC got the shaper properly allowing XBox Live traffic. It wasn't meant to slow down XBL at all, but unfortunately it did. Hopefully things stay good now and a few other things improve.
Not here in Sc live is running with no lag or and 54 ms ping time. Wife is on live no as i type this out and she is seeing no lag anywhere. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916471 Tue, 21 Aug 2007 01:01:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916329 hobgoblin :
said by war59312 See Profile :

Indeed, but they still should have read it and would have realized that users hate packet shaping for good reasons and that its just going to piss their users off and that their are better options out there...
Ok go get them.......]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916329 Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:23:35 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916186 war59312 : Indeed, but they still should have read it and would have realized that users hate packet shaping for good reasons and that its just going to piss their users off and that their are better options out there...
--
GOD BLESS THE U.S.A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916186 Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:55:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916180 war59312 : No because they are still packet shaping my xbox 360. :(

Cant even host a game of Gears of War. I called today and they said its a known issue and they are working on it... Whatever that means... Tech guy was not willing to give details...
--
GOD BLESS THE U.S.A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18916180 Mon, 20 Aug 2007 23:53:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18915720 hobgoblin :
said by Selenia See Profile :

It was but now it doesn't seem to. Maybe TWC got the shaper properly allowing XBox Live traffic. It wasn't meant to slow down XBL at all, but unfortunately it did. Hopefully things stay good now and a few other things improve.
Or maybe it was another issue.

:)
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18915720 Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:38:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18915676 Selenia : It was but now it doesn't seem to. Maybe TWC got the shaper properly allowing XBox Live traffic. It wasn't meant to slow down XBL at all, but unfortunately it did. Hopefully things stay good now and a few other things improve.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18915676 Mon, 20 Aug 2007 22:33:05 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18911590 anon : does anybody know if this affects xbox live?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18911590 Mon, 20 Aug 2007 11:51:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18910840 swhx7 : The Sandvine technique that Comcast is using (see that thread) is not just throttling (limiting amount of transfer). It's selective sabotage using forged packets to prevent seeding on bittorrent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18910840 Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:33:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18907602 fsmartin1 : I don't understand where packet shaping is going to improve a thing either for the consumer or RR.
full throttle = 20 minutes of use.
half throttle = 40 minutes of use.
The more the throttle the more time spent for the download.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18907602 Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:46:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18900259 war59312 : But your not in SC... Anyone out there?

Interesting read:

»www.sandvine.com/general/getfile···ILEID=16

TWC should have read this before they took action...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18900259 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:25:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18900250 Selenia : I noticed I had a typo. I can download at full speed at *off-peak* times. Anyways, I pretty well know the time warner system in this area as 2 relatives that work for them(unfortunately they have no power over this, I already asked lol). The node I'm on is very small.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18900250 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:23:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18900246 war59312 : OK after all night torrent download the average is 26.5 kB/s. :( Pretty darn sad...

By the way the node is siting in my front yard. And only two people on my street have RR. I am the only heavy user. It took them 5+ years to bring RR to me. I had to beg basically.

Oh and OMG I still cant get DSL for some reason. Even though a family friend right down the street can. And he is further away from the hub than I am. According to the bell south home page DSL is not available for my phone number. :( I could have sworn it was just months ago.

Update: oh wait perhaps its because I have RR Digital phone?

See that is the problem I have cable, phone, and internet all from TMC. There is no other cable or VOIP provider in my area either. So really I am shit out of luck. TWC is the only option.

And no I can not get satellite either. We tried!
--
GOD BLESS THE U.S.A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18900246 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 11:22:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899809 plat2on1 :
said by Selenia See Profile :

Must be according to load as they say. I am throttled bad at peak times, but not quite that bad. I know my node has no people who are heavy users though, which is what makes me sick. I live in an area where neighbors know neighbors well. In fact, few of them have RR period. Most have Verizon dsl now that they have extended to this area. I might have to look into it(most of them upgraded from dial up because they held off on getting RR since Time Warner is so hated here). At least I can download full speed at peak times. I seldom use RR for torrents except Linux distros. I am more concerned with their throttling impacting games, sftp, and Usenet.
unless you know everyone in the entire area your headend covers that means nothing. multiple nodes can be combined on to the same port.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899809 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:29:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899807 anon : After experiencing the same issues as everyone else, I've started a blog on the very issue. I think it's going to take a petition or a huge number of customers/press shaking the tree to get back our "High Speed Internet" rather than high speed web browsing and email. =)

If you'd like to help with the blog by making posts, email me.

»slow-roadrunner-timewarner.blogspot.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899807 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 09:28:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899452 Anonymous_ : useable rates for me @ 8mbps or 1megabyte/s]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899452 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 06:16:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899081 Selenia : Must be according to load as they say. I am throttled bad at peak times, but not quite that bad. I know my node has no people who are heavy users though, which is what makes me sick. I live in an area where neighbors know neighbors well. In fact, few of them have RR period. Most have Verizon dsl now that they have extended to this area. I might have to look into it(most of them upgraded from dial up because they held off on getting RR since Time Warner is so hated here). At least I can download full speed at peak times. I seldom use RR for torrents except Linux distros. I am more concerned with their throttling impacting games, sftp, and Usenet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18899081 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:24:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18898687 war59312 : Downloading a torrent:

3.4 kB/s (avg. 5.5 kB/s)

Oh my God. This sucks big time. This is downloading a linux distro with over 2000 seeds.

Connected to over 84 seeds and 60 other people atm and going this slow. :(

Tried many different torrents and same thing.

Using uTorrent and encryption is enabled... Port is successfully forwarded. Running Windows XP SP2. Yes tried different client and without encryption and same result.

Yes tried on different computer and same thing.

Stupid RR is 100% throttling torrents to basically unusable rates. God I really hate RR!!!!!!!!
--
GOD BLESS THE U.S.A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18898687 Sat, 18 Aug 2007 00:12:40 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18890831 Baseline :
said by Nocturnal01 See Profile :

said by Baseline See Profile :

said by Nocturnal01 See Profile :

You have to wonder how all the newsgroup companies like Giganews and the like are feeling. I wonder if they'll take a significant hit? I know I'm cancelling my Giganews account as soon as I find out for certain that RR shapes my traffic and can no longer download at max speeds. I will give up on my account and I'm sure many others will to. There's no point in using Usenet if they cap it at 30KBps. That would be stupid. I wonder though how the newsgroup companies are going to take this. I hope they say something and not just take it up the ass.
Might be a little quick OT, but, don't you have access to the RR free newsgroup access included with your service? If so, why do you continue to pay for giganews? Is it just for the extra retention time?
Personally it's the speed I get (20 connections) and also the retention.
Ah I see. I get my full speed with 15 connections here on the RR newsgroups, which is typically around 1750 KB/s. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18890831 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 22:31:44 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18889252 war59312 : Well, my connection is now back to where it is suppose to be after talking to a RR rep for over an hour. Idiots! Damn hub down the street completely overloaded.

But now I am capped at 50 KB/s for newsgroups. Still sucks! Always got over 900 KB/s. :(

Very lame!
--
GOD BLESS THE U.S.A]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18889252 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 18:32:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18888962 Selenia : I will say that Giganews has the best retention, which is a big benefit for the big downloaders or those who don't check regularly. There is no reason not to recommend it and I wasn't saying anything bad about it myself(not sure about this guy though),
More on topic, I can get my full 10 mbps on RR's server when not shaped, which was only recently, I still get about 600 KB/sec when the peak time traffic shaping kicks in, but still full speed during the day. I'm not sure where your speed problems may lie. Have you tried pinging the server when the traffic shaper is off? How about a traceroute? I have a feeling you might have a latency spike somewhere, which can be worked around to a decent extent. I don't think it's your line if you're doing well on Giganews,]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18888962 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:45:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18888801 Nocturnal01 :
said by Baseline See Profile :

said by Nocturnal01 See Profile :

You have to wonder how all the newsgroup companies like Giganews and the like are feeling. I wonder if they'll take a significant hit? I know I'm cancelling my Giganews account as soon as I find out for certain that RR shapes my traffic and can no longer download at max speeds. I will give up on my account and I'm sure many others will to. There's no point in using Usenet if they cap it at 30KBps. That would be stupid. I wonder though how the newsgroup companies are going to take this. I hope they say something and not just take it up the ass.
Might be a little quick OT, but, don't you have access to the RR free newsgroup access included with your service? If so, why do you continue to pay for giganews? Is it just for the extra retention time?
Personally it's the speed I get (20 connections) and also the retention.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18888801 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:20:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18887783 Selenia : All I can say is RR sucks even more now, This goes with their general way of thinking though.

said by The Roadrunner wigs' thoughts :
Let's see...we'll speed up page loads with traffic shaping by 10 ms because people get broadband to show off how fast they can load pages! Duh! It don't matter we trash not only LEGAL torrents because that's the only method of piracy. It don't matter we also trash Usenet speeds and ping times in various MMORPG and other games because people shouldn't be using their broadband connections for that. They don't pay enough.


Now to the facts. It's just TWC cheaping out on upgrading. In fact, they don't even hurt piracy that much for those who know about things other than torrents. What they are mainly hurting is 2 of the biggest broadband consumers outside pirates, whom actually use relatively little bandwidth-Linux users and online gamers.

They even shape their own Usenet server during the evening hours. Why Time Warner? I see no real purpose in this, After all, it is your own server that you don't have to pay alot in peering for. Also, Usenet connections are far fewer than torrents and other services. I would at least think you would be encouraging its use to bring down network strain from downloaders, especially considering they don't have to upload anywhere, including people on your own network. No, it's not my computer. I get full speed off TWC's great free Usenet server(I have no problem giving them credit for what they do right, I even dropped Giganews since I'm not a huge downloader and this Usenet meets my needs) all hours of the morning until evening hours if I want it, but it drops to about half speed during "peak" hours. It's workable, unlike some other things, but why?

ISPs need to view BitTorrent in a better light perhaps, since it's not the final frontier of pirates and is quite useful. Much of bigger free Linux content, including distros, are distributed using this method. They are even working on an updater for apt to relieve strain on their servers and financial resources, which can be limited. Yes, torrents can stick it to the man, but not because of piracy. They allow small developers to distribute things as widely as Microsoft could at a fraction of the cost. I am not arguing that this doesn't put on a decent amount of network strain. It just calls for infrastructure. I don't agree with shaping not just because I see it as a soft form of censorship. Time Warner has even touched on the subject in the past that it's not the bandwidth, but the amount of connections. Well, keeping people on a torrent 3x as long will cause a rise in the amount of sustained network connections as people wait 3x as long for their downloads due to the slow pool of uploaders this creates and the shaping on the end user as well. It's common sense. A better system might be to only shape when X number of concurrent connections are reached, perhaps more aggressively. This will attack the issue at hand without people feeling they are being too restricted because it will encourage allowing less connections to avoid the shaping.

OK gaming. This is where it gets tricky as some resemble BT protocols(see above solution) and some are just very dynamic as to source and destination ports with a combination of TCP and UDP packets. I will admit my ping times improved on maybe 2 games in the evening, but not too significantly. The rest plainly stink. This is too complicated of issue for general shaping but fact is this uses very little bandwidth and maybe a max of 10 connections. If the shaping were triggered by say 100+ concurrent connections, this would be no issue at all. This is something TWC must fix or they may lose 50% of their subscriber base to alternatives once considered lesser ones in the past. I did hook my pc to my friend's wireless dsl just to see and my ping times are fine on the wireless. Also, [ping times were fine during the day on Roadrunner, just horrendous during peak hours, which I'm not sure if peak is really until 2-3 AM.

Bottom line RR is you need to look at not infringing your customers' activities. You'll need upgrades from time to time, but as you saw by my examples, there are much less invasive but effective methods of shaping traffic. Please consider your customers' individuality and don't assume we all get a high speed connection for e-mail. Other things seemed shaped to, like sftp, which causes almost no network load and is almost never used by pirates. I use it for downloading off the servers at work, if you must know, so I can take some home with me, burn it, and continue with it the next day at work. You can see, however, why I'd use an encrypted protocol for that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18887783 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:02:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18886272 Baseline :
said by Nocturnal01 See Profile :

You have to wonder how all the newsgroup companies like Giganews and the like are feeling. I wonder if they'll take a significant hit? I know I'm cancelling my Giganews account as soon as I find out for certain that RR shapes my traffic and can no longer download at max speeds. I will give up on my account and I'm sure many others will to. There's no point in using Usenet if they cap it at 30KBps. That would be stupid. I wonder though how the newsgroup companies are going to take this. I hope they say something and not just take it up the ass.
Might be a little quick OT, but, don't you have access to the RR free newsgroup access included with your service? If so, why do you continue to pay for giganews? Is it just for the extra retention time?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18886272 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 11:23:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18884563 Rook008 : That's odd. When I use RR's news servers I get around 900 during peak times and 1100 during non-peak times. And I've never used a whole lot of upload to download at my connection's max speed.
--
You've crossed the finish line. Won the race but lost your mind. Was it worth it, after all?
"Superman" -Lazlo Bane]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18884563 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:44:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18884442 Nocturnal01 : You have to wonder how all the newsgroup companies like Giganews and the like are feeling. I wonder if they'll take a significant hit? I know I'm cancelling my Giganews account as soon as I find out for certain that RR shapes my traffic and can no longer download at max speeds. I will give up on my account and I'm sure many others will to. There's no point in using Usenet if they cap it at 30KBps. That would be stupid. I wonder though how the newsgroup companies are going to take this. I hope they say something and not just take it up the ass.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18884442 Thu, 16 Aug 2007 01:17:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18883272 swhx7 :
said by hobgoblin See Profile :

said by swhx7 See Profile :

"There's a big controversy about network neutrality. Traffic discrimination has a bad reputation among a large and influential sector of the public. This provides a natural incentive for big ISPs to conceal or play down any such policies they may have going on."
Actually packet shaping has nothing to do with network Neutrality.

If you are serious, read from the beginning. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18883272 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:10:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18882709 Anonymous_ : yea you need 200Kbit/s upload to get 10.0 mbps down

i get over 800KByte/s on download (torrent) with upload at 90Kbyte/s
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Note to MOD: that file is a Linux iso
Click for full size
Torrent FTW
Click for full size
800Kbyte/s
Click for full size
Linux torrent FTW
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18882709 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:51:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18882625 sovere1gnty :
said by jamesarm97 :

I have had a problem for the last week and just came across this. I noticed that one night when I was trying to download one file (torrent), page loads took forever. DNS lookups took forever. I thought it was my firewall / server so I rebooted it repeatedly and restarted the modem.

I have the small business tier and should not be limited like this. Once I stopped the torrent my speed magically jumped up. Same thing happened tonight and I guy at work complained about the same thing.

While torrenting 1 file which was only downloading at 27k/sec I did a speed test:

170kbps down, 17kbps up.

It would take near a minute to load one website. I stoped the torrent and did a speed test again:

4338kbps down, 187kbps up.

I can understand limiting the download, but what happens when I want to download a new Fedora Core or something? I can understand the torrent limit, but it seems to limit everything once that kicks in.
You were downloading at 27KBps. At what rate were you uploading with the torrent? Cable is not symmetrical. Uploading at too high a rate can take away from your downloads and cause surfing and most on-line tasks to be sluggish. Limit your upload speed and then try it again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18882625 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:37:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18882457 anon : I have had a problem for the last week and just came across this. I noticed that one night when I was trying to download one file (torrent), page loads took forever. DNS lookups took forever. I thought it was my firewall / server so I rebooted it repeatedly and restarted the modem.

I have the small business tier and should not be limited like this. Once I stopped the torrent my speed magically jumped up. Same thing happened tonight and I guy at work complained about the same thing.

While torrenting 1 file which was only downloading at 27k/sec I did a speed test:

170kbps down, 17kbps up.

It would take near a minute to load one website. I stoped the torrent and did a speed test again:

4338kbps down, 187kbps up.

I can understand limiting the download, but what happens when I want to download a new Fedora Core or something? I can understand the torrent limit, but it seems to limit everything once that kicks in.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18882457 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:08:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18878722 hobgoblin : "There's a big controversy about network neutrality. Traffic discrimination has a bad reputation among a large and influential sector of the public. This provides a natural incentive for big ISPs to conceal or play down any such policies they may have going on."

Actually packet shaping has nothing to do with network Neutrality.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18878722 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 11:11:01 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18878471 swhx7 : OK we're getting closer. I'm going to try one more time.

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

A "letter" may have been leaked or distributed. This doesn't mean the letter has any validity to it at all.

Right. As I said, e.g. "may or may not have been correct or reliable".

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

You assume because people see a "decrease" in performance that it is this new packet shaping.

Nope. Check my posts, I haven't declared any definite conclusions based on perceived slowdowns. Maybe you've got me mixed up with other posters here.

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

In all honesty what does TWC have to hide? If they want to packet shape you then they do.

There's a big controversy about network neutrality. Traffic discrimination has a bad reputation among a large and influential sector of the public. This provides a natural incentive for big ISPs to conceal or play down any such policies they may have going on.

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

If you don't like it go somewhere else.

It must be nice to have so much broadband competition in Columbus, OH that you can "go somewhere else" and find broadband with different policies on offer. In most of the USA, broadband customers have only two choices at most, cable and telco, and for a large proportion only one of these. This lack of competition is the cause of this whole controversy; it's the only thing that lets ISPs get away with poor service and closely similar, onerous policies.

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

So the point is this....until you can PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT it is packet shaping, then don't blame it.

Why do you demand stronger evidence for one alternative than for another? Do you work for TW or own a lot of shares or something? Such a double standard is a sign of bias.

The rational approach is to assign probabilities in proportion to the evidence. There is some evidence in this thread of a new traffic shaping policy at RR/TW. It is less than absolute proof and more than zero. The rational conclusion therefore is some probability that it's true, less than 100% and more than zero.

"Black or white" thinking is a kind of irrationality. Tolerance for ambiguity is a sign of intelligence. Give it a try sometime.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18878471 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 10:34:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18876649 Anonymous_ : Fells so good to be on my own node
as it's unused

every one got suckered it to that d**h network package with the dsl/phone

ahh

node ratio is 200 houses to 1 node
there is about 186 houses in the HOA

were i used to live it was node# 176

this node is 178 :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18876649 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:47:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18876366 war59312 : Yeah this sucks. Getting 30 KB/s now for newsgroups. :(

No matter what service I use. This sucks big time!

Time Warner is only cable provider in town. Only other "high" bandwidth ISP is DSL which I can not get due to distance and besides everyone tells me it sucks anyways.

Test 2007-08-14 23:06:54 EST @ speedtest.dslreports.com
1112 / 267 (Kbps)
(135.7 / 32.6 KB/sec)
Compared to the average of 1786 tests from rr.com:
* download is 80% worse, upload is 56% worse


So lame! I am suppose to have 8/512. But only choice I got really, besides dial up...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18876366 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:02:51 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18875229 pcmodem : I was the original person who asked if there *could* be a link between the two problems.

The post everyone is going crazy referencing from the WoW forums is about... tada... NYC RR problems... I am not sure what info blizzard has to "suspect" packet shaping, but I suspect they know theres some problem for their users in the NY area and just said anything in the hopes they could stir up people on time warner to get the issue resolved. No idea why, just a suspicion.

here is a repost of a MTR session I ran to a game site thats NOT world of warcraft. I, and my family living on the other side of this god-forsaken staten island have seen this same severe lag (described as packet loss) in world of warcraft as well. It is a size of 1500 with 10 packets per second
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18875229 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 20:18:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18874709 Pure :
said by dbmaven See Profile :

I will add one other comment:
I find it highly amusing that Blizzard/WOW would suggest that all issues with TWC users and their 'products' are related to 'packet shaping'. Highly amusing....
The typical pass the buck as happens too commonly in business. Noone wants to own up to what is really happening.
Being that so many play particular game Blizzard feels most will listen to them and urge on their complaints to swarm towards Time Warner. Just because they can in todays world of forums/chat talk.
--
I'm just a youngster so what would I know! - LMAOROFL! -=)--=Pure OUT!=--(=-]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18874709 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 19:07:57 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18874064 dbmaven : This has been explained 40 times in 40 different ways by 40 different people.

The "other thread" being referred to does show a specific TWC piece of equipment that is causing a issue - and this issue DOES NOT SHOW UP ON TRACEROUTES or PINGS.

It appears that anyone who happens to route through that piece of equipment is experiencing dropouts and delays on a frequent basis. The route APPEARS to be specifically related to TWC users in the NEW YORK METRO AREA, including parts of NEW JERSEY and the MID-HUDSON VALLEY.

Those of you in that area should certainly stick to that thread.

I will add one other comment:
I find it highly amusing that Blizzard/WOW would suggest that all issues with TWC users and their 'products' are related to 'packet shaping'. Highly amusing....
--
If a pig loses its voice, is it disgruntled?
Living in "an optimized state of temporary chaos"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18874064 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:51:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873721 Thundolfe :
said by TWC is GREAT :

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

said by Thundolfe See Profile :

I believe it is a TWC issue because myself and many others in the NYC area have found PL on certain routers within the RR network, and these routes are the ones that have problems. I have internet routes that do not use at&t or level3 with this problem.
It isn't Packet Loss it is QoS choosing to not respond to your ICMP requests.
Exactly, * * * in a trace do not mean packet loss, it's like kshymkiw said, that hop is just not responding to ICMP reqeusts.
That is not what is happening, but just forget it. Look, pretty flowers. :)
--
MOO@(*&^*@&]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873721 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 17:07:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873635 smcallah : Unless the packet loss in your traceroutes starts at one hop and appears at EVERY hop after that, the packet loss is not along the route.

Routers have control planes, these control planes are what are responding to your ICMP requests. If a router is busy at the time, and can't respond to your ping, it will either drop it, or respond later, showing latency. If that packet loss and latency doesn't appear at the next hop, then there is no packet loss between those 2 hops.

Some providers also rate-limit ICMP to their routers, because they want their routers to be busy ROUTING, and not responding to everyone trying to traceroute though there.

If the server at the end of your traceroute pings fine, then the connection all the way through to the server is fine.

Packet loss to one hop in the middle of a traceroute with 15 hops is not a problem.

[Edit] - I should add, the control plane on most backbone routers is separate from its line cards. Meaning, traffic passing through the router does not go through the control plane, the linecards know where to send the traffic and are designed for higher speed traffic than the control plane. So your normal traffic destined for hosts beyond the router never touches the control plane.

Any traffic you send directly to the router's IP addresses hits the control plane and is subject to different QoS and policies depending on the router and the provider.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873635 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:56:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873573 anon :
said by kshymkiw See Profile :

said by Thundolfe See Profile :

I believe it is a TWC issue because myself and many others in the NYC area have found PL on certain routers within the RR network, and these routes are the ones that have problems. I have internet routes that do not use at&t or level3 with this problem.
It isn't Packet Loss it is QoS choosing to not respond to your ICMP requests.
Exactly, * * * in a trace do not mean packet loss, it's like kshymkiw said, that hop is just not responding to ICMP reqeusts.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873573 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:46:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873571 Thundolfe : lol. Yes, it is all just a coincidence :)

I think I made a mistake jumping in here trying to debate a point with someone named "TWC is GREAT", I'll just go back to the MHV thread. Sorry for the inconvienience.
--
MOO@(*&^*@&]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873571 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:45:57 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873474 kshymkiw :
said by Thundolfe See Profile :

I am in Poughkeepsie I just haven't bothered to update my information in like, forever.

I believe it is a TWC issue because myself and many others in the NYC area have found PL on certain routers within the RR network, and these routes are the ones that have problems. I have internet routes that do not use at&t or level3 with this problem.
It isn't Packet Loss it is QoS choosing to not respond to your ICMP requests.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873474 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:29:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873469 Thundolfe : I am in Poughkeepsie I just haven't bothered to update my information in like, forever.

I believe it is a TWC issue because myself and many others in the NYC area have found PL on certain routers within the RR network, and these routes are the ones that have problems. I have internet routes that do not use at&t or level3 with this problem.
--
MOO@(*&^*@&]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873469 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:29:18 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873420 anon : WOW, the last two posts actually make sense, it's not TWC's issue. Also, I don't think packet shaping is a real term...traffic shaping is a real term and it has to do with QOS and prioritizing packets based on available bandwidth. As far as I know, there is no way to change the size of a packet....which is what packet shaping implies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873420 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:22:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873377 kshymkiw :
said by swhx7 See Profile :

said by swhx7 See Profile :

...plausible reports of a new policy, and some symptoms consistent with it, and other pieces of information, and we're discussing to try to decide what it means.

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

How is something plausible if you don't know? You can't tell me it is plausible, even though you don't know IF the system has even been implemented.

You can't call something plausible unless YOU can control all the variables in the problem. ... From the traces I have seen to "WOW's Servers" alot of the latency is on the ATT and WOW Network.

I can't tell whether you're trolling or really don't understand the post you're reacting to, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you didn't read the thread from the beginning.

The original news was announcements of new traffic shaping policies on the part of Roadrunner/Time Warner. These came from a help desk. It may or may not have been correct or reliable, but similar reports from additional posters soon appeard above, including some with claims of TW sources.

Other posts, apart from opinions about the merits of traffic shaping and network neutrality, have speculated whether observed changes in performance may have been due to changes on the part of RR/TW. That's how the online games discussion came in: it wasn't a thread about diagnosing particular connectivity problems, rather it was considering whether such problems may be evidence of a new RR policy.

The meaning of "plausible" is "such that it's not unreasonable to think it may be true, provided enough evidence turns up". It does not mean "already proved".

And what I was saying was plausible were the reports of a new RR policy. It is reasonable to think these may turn out to be true because (a) major ISPs worldwide are considering or implementing new or additional traffic shaping (b) RR has not actually denied the reports (this was my other misconstrued post above, where I pointed out that they hedged around the issue rather than denied shaping) (c) symptoms reported in this thread are consistent with a new shaping policy, even if particular instances actually happen to be caused by other things.

Now do you get it? It makes no sense to require conclusive proof of something before discussing it as a possibility. Please try to contribute something positive to the conversation instead of sniping at people for speculating based on the evidence we already have.
Obviously you don't understand what I am saying.

A "letter" may have been leaked or distributed. This doesn't mean the letter has any validity to it at all.

You assume because people see a "decrease" in performance that it is this new packet shaping. What your not seeing is what the problem may acutually be. People have a funny way of acting when they break something to try and blame it on TWC.

In all honesty what does TWC have to hide? If they want to packet shape you then they do. If you don't like it go somewhere else. Pretty simple. I don't think TWC will care about the 5000 customers it may loose over this, when they have 2 million HSD Subscribers.

So the point is this....until you can PROVE WITHOUT A SHADOW OF A DOUBT it is packet shaping, then don't blame it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873377 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:17:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873343 kshymkiw :
said by Pizz See Profile :

So its a ATT / Level 3 peering issue. Which means TWC has to contact Level 3, then Level 3 goes to ATT - then ATT goes to blizzard.

so much fun eh.
WRONG. TWC Connection to Level 3 is perfect.

Level 3 has to contact ATT, TWC has nothing to do with it. You can't report problems on a Circuit you don't own]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873343 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:12:44 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873223 Baseline : I'm still hitting 1740 KB/s off the newsgroups so I'm a happy camper.

I can't really expect packet shaping in the area I'm in though. The network congestion in the Buffalo area is probably a fraction of markets like LA and NYC.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873223 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:52:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873093 anon :
said by Thundolfe See Profile :

The issue is not just with Blizzard/WoW. The link just happens to lead to the WoW forums.

The "freezing hops", whether it be a TWC (seems to be) or AT&T problem affect all internet services including other games, VOIP, etc.
First of all it says your from Hopewell Junction.....Time Warner is not in that area, we do Pok but wappingers, hopewell, and beacon are all cable vision.

Second of all what is the proof that this is a TWC issue? Every traceroute I've seen is fine on the rr.com network, fine on the ATDN.net network, and jumps up on the AT&T network.

I'm no rocket scientist, but it looks like a pretty clear AT&T problem to me. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873093 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:34:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873035 Thundolfe : The issue is not just with Blizzard/WoW. The link just happens to lead to the WoW forums.

The "freezing hops", whether it be a TWC (seems to be) or AT&T problem affect all internet services including other games, VOIP, etc.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873035 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:28:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873016 anon :
said by Pizz See Profile :

So its a ATT / Level 3 peering issue. Which means TWC has to contact Level 3, then Level 3 goes to ATT - then ATT goes to blizzard.

so much fun eh.
Why doesn't Blizzard just go directly to AT&T since thats where the problem is. It's not TWC's responsibility to contact various backbone providers for a problem like this. It's Blizzard's servers that are having the problem, they should grow a pair, stop pointing the finger at TWC, and start trying to actually fix the problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18873016 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 15:25:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18872289 anon : TWC does not at this time use packet shaping technology, however reserves the right in the future, and do not limit bandwidth for users, do a trace route to the intended site you are trying to access, check if the trace has high milliseconds and or times out, the hop will possibly be an indicator of where the issue may be. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18872289 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:51:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18872216 anon : If you look at people's trace routes to the WoW servers, they go from RR to ATDN (which is AOL's backbone) to AT&T.....this is where the ping times get higher.

I can say with absolute certainty that TWC does not have any sort of packet-shaping protocols out there. It doesn't make any sence anyway, online MMO's do not use much bandwidth at all. The game code and the worlds are all client side, the only thing to communicate to the server for is to log in and actually manipulate your character.

From what I hear this problem started after Blizzard made a change to the game, maybe you all should start pointing the finger at them and not TWC.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18872216 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:43:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18871509 swhx7 :
said by swhx7 See Profile :

...plausible reports of a new policy, and some symptoms consistent with it, and other pieces of information, and we're discussing to try to decide what it means.

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

How is something plausible if you don't know? You can't tell me it is plausible, even though you don't know IF the system has even been implemented.

You can't call something plausible unless YOU can control all the variables in the problem. ... From the traces I have seen to "WOW's Servers" alot of the latency is on the ATT and WOW Network.

I can't tell whether you're trolling or really don't understand the post you're reacting to, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you didn't read the thread from the beginning.

The original news was announcements of new traffic shaping policies on the part of Roadrunner/Time Warner. These came from a help desk. It may or may not have been correct or reliable, but similar reports from additional posters soon appeard above, including some with claims of TW sources.

Other posts, apart from opinions about the merits of traffic shaping and network neutrality, have speculated whether observed changes in performance may have been due to changes on the part of RR/TW. That's how the online games discussion came in: it wasn't a thread about diagnosing particular connectivity problems, rather it was considering whether such problems may be evidence of a new RR policy.

The meaning of "plausible" is "such that it's not unreasonable to think it may be true, provided enough evidence turns up". It does not mean "already proved".

And what I was saying was plausible were the reports of a new RR policy. It is reasonable to think these may turn out to be true because (a) major ISPs worldwide are considering or implementing new or additional traffic shaping (b) RR has not actually denied the reports (this was my other misconstrued post above, where I pointed out that they hedged around the issue rather than denied shaping) (c) symptoms reported in this thread are consistent with a new shaping policy, even if particular instances actually happen to be caused by other things.

Now do you get it? It makes no sense to require conclusive proof of something before discussing it as a possibility. Please try to contribute something positive to the conversation instead of sniping at people for speculating based on the evidence we already have.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18871509 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:12:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18871345 Pizz : So its a ATT / Level 3 peering issue. Which means TWC has to contact Level 3, then Level 3 goes to ATT - then ATT goes to blizzard.

so much fun eh.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18871345 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:42:40 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18871143 kshymkiw :
said by Pizz See Profile :

I really dont care who is at fault, just fix the peering issues. Time Warner cable is late to the game on almost everything, but this time i'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
TW Peers with Level 3 who peers with ATT who provides service to Blizzard]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18871143 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:13:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18870821 Pizz : I really dont care who is at fault, just fix the peering issues. Time Warner cable is late to the game on almost everything, but this time i'll give them the benefit of the doubt.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18870821 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:22:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18870248 kshymkiw :
said by cryptmagic See Profile :

No we have problems, and they have been going on for 1 month so far. No repsonse from Time Warner, no attempt to help solve it, or even aknowledge it. The packet Shaping problem is the only problem, we can think of since, Blizzard Entertainment blamed it for the lag spikes.
And since Blizzard, a SOFTWARE company says that the NETWORK issues is TWC's, then it must be true!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18870248 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:16:11 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18870243 kshymkiw :
said by swhx7 See Profile :

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

Boiled down, this is a simple answer to all of this. No one here knows if Packet Shaping is in effect, or when packet shaping will be deployed. This is just a scape goat for people to blame other issues on.

So your argument is, essentially, "you people don't know for sure what is going on, therefore shut up and go away".

Meanwhile the rest of the people in the thread have some plausible reports of a new policy, and some symptoms consistent with it, and other pieces of information, and we're discussing to try to decide what it means.
How is something plausible if you don't know? You can't tell me it is plausible, even though you don't know IF the system has even been implemented.

You can't call something plausible unless YOU can control all the variables in the problem. Unless you 1. Knew Packet shaping was currently in effect 2. Knew Blizzard's Network 3. Knew TWC's Network 4. Knew the servers running the WOW Servers

And even under those 4 things, there are still Hundreds more! You can't even say it is plausible. Blizzard is grabbing at the air trying to figure this out, and since "TWC Now Packet Shapes" we should just blame TWC.

From the traces I have seen to "WOW's Servers" alot of the latency is on the ATT and WOW Network.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18870243 Tue, 14 Aug 2007 08:14:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18865273 cryptmagic : I think this problem will be solved soon, since this issue is being picked up all over the net. I wish those tech blogs like engadget and gizmodo would pick it up. the more publicity the sooner you will have a solution.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18865273 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:28:12 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18864084 allen2404 : I'm moving to Manhattan in about two weeks from Optimum Online here in Brooklyn and want to know if it's worth getting RoadRunner. Based on the posts I'm reading in this thread there's lotsa slowdown in the city right now and a lot of you are unhappy.

I use sites like YouTube and other bandwidth-intensive websites for videos and music, in addition to Newsgroups. Torrents I no longer use as often. Would this packet shaping affect my use a lot? Frankly it'd be tough to go from a quick and stable setup here to a laggy, intermittent service, and I'd end up with a heart attack on the phone with customer service. What's your opinion?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18864084 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:29:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18864019 cryptmagic : No we have problems, and they have been going on for 1 month so far. No repsonse from Time Warner, no attempt to help solve it, or even aknowledge it. The packet Shaping problem is the only problem, we can think of since, Blizzard Entertainment blamed it for the lag spikes. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18864019 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:16:54 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18863461 swhx7 :
said by kshymkiw See Profile :

Boiled down, this is a simple answer to all of this. No one here knows if Packet Shaping is in effect, or when packet shaping will be deployed. This is just a scape goat for people to blame other issues on.

So your argument is, essentially, "you people don't know for sure what is going on, therefore shut up and go away".

Meanwhile the rest of the people in the thread have some plausible reports of a new policy, and some symptoms consistent with it, and other pieces of information, and we're discussing to try to decide what it means.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18863461 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:35:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18863398 cryptmagic : Then what is the problem, if we don't find anything, Time Warner ignores our calls about problems, i have been dealing with this for over a month. I am going to switch to dsl, this week.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18863398 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:18:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18863167 kshymkiw :
said by swhx7 See Profile :

Wow, a dogmatic, hostile reaction to my post, yet nothing that actually refutes anything I said.

Most of what you describe is traditional traffic management practice. It can be implemented on conventional routers and is relatively impartial.

The new generation of traffic shaping is much more granular. It is also designed to set up the means for ISPs to start billing separately for allowing the customers to continue using their connections in ways they have always freely done with neutral internet service. For example, gaming or VOIP is degraded unless the customer or the remote non-customer provider pays a new fee. With the new tools, ISPs can throttle WOW more or less than other games, or make their own VOIP faster than the competition's, or make Google slower than Microsoft's search if they have a deal with Microsoft.

To learn about this, you could start with this article and its links, for example: »arstechnica.com/articles/culture···lity.ars
Who said anything about deep packet inspection? No one.

In fact you don't know if it is simple packet shaping or "deep packet" inspection. Deep Packet Inspection is a new word for the same thing firewalls have been doing for years. Looking more at the datagram portion of the packet, than the actual headers.

Boiled down, this is a simple answer to all of this. No one here knows if Packet Shaping is in effect, or when packet shaping will be deployed. This is just a scape goat for people to blame other issues on.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18863167 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 07:49:07 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18862998 anon : I'm also now seeing those problems with iChat when trying to video conference with a user on a TWC/RR connection in New York State (ip network: 69.202.53.*) from my UK-based location.

This setup has been working perfectly for 18 months, up until two or three days ago, then all of a sudden we've both got "iChat Error -8" regardless of who tries to initiate the connection.

I've spent two days attempting to troubleshoot this. If it turns out to be TWC's fault then I'll be most displeased.

Some Google fodder: VC_SIP_INVITE_ERROR, SIPConnectIPPort failed, Chat ended with error -8, VC_AUDIO_OUTGOING_ATTEMPT, OS X

S.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18862998 Mon, 13 Aug 2007 06:08:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18854813 swhx7 : Wow, a dogmatic, hostile reaction to my post, yet nothing that actually refutes anything I said.

Most of what you describe is traditional traffic management practice. It can be implemented on conventional routers and is relatively impartial.

The new generation of traffic shaping is much more granular. It is also designed to set up the means for ISPs to start billing separately for allowing the customers to continue using their connections in ways they have always freely done with neutral internet service. For example, gaming or VOIP is degraded unless the customer or the remote non-customer provider pays a new fee. With the new tools, ISPs can throttle WOW more or less than other games, or make their own VOIP faster than the competition's, or make Google slower than Microsoft's search if they have a deal with Microsoft.

To learn about this, you could start with this article and its links, for example: »arstechnica.com/articles/culture···lity.ars]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18854813 Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:34:18 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18853720 kshymkiw :
said by swhx7 See Profile :

The article implies a stealth shaping program.

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

Time Warner spokesperson Alex Dudley [:] "We don't have a network management policy called packet shaping," he said.

Do they have one called by some other name?

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

"None of our network management policies are designed to impact a customer's ability to play World of Warcraft."

Well of course they're not designed for exactly that purpose. Could it be an effect tho?

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

Dudley also denied the legitimacy of a news release detailing Time Warner's nationwide rollout of packet shaping technology, which would potentially cause the same connection difficulties for Time Warner subscribers everywhere. The text of the release had been revealed on forums at DSLreports.com, and posters said Road Runner customer service representatives had e-mailed the information to them in response to service complaints.

"We don't issue releases that outline our network management policies or changes to that policy," Dudley said. "Customer service reps don't send that stuff to folks."

He doesn't deny it; apparently they didn't mean for it to get out.

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

Dudley said connection issues affecting NYC-area customers playing other games--like Valve's Counter Strike--also would be resolved.

They'll minimize discontent for now at least. If traffic discrimination is legalized though, look for all the cable providers and telcos to start charging customers and non-customers by the type of traffic and its origin and destination.

Again, it's not an issue of amount of traffic. It's discriminatory carriage policies that are objectionable.
Do you know the first about Packet Shaping or Traffic Shaping?

Do you know the hardware or software vendor that has been chosen for this?

Do you even know if it is in place or being utilized?

You know none of this. I am glad to hear WOW's "System Administration" team has placed the blame on RR, but would you trust a bunch of "Systems" guys to torubleshoot or look at "Network" issues? I know I don't.

The simple fact is this, you don't know if RR is traffic shaping or not, you prob. never will. Once again I would encourage everyone to read up on Traffic Shaping, before making some outrageous claim tied to this, especially if you don't know that RR is traffic shaping to begin with.

Traffic Shaping Types:

Sensitive Traffic

Sensitive traffic is traffic whose Quality of Service ISPs care about. This usually includes VoIP, online gaming, video streaming, and web surfing, but basically any application or protocol could fall under this umbrella. Shaping schemes are generally tailored in such a way that the Quality of Service of these selected uses is guaranteed, or at least prioritized over other classes of traffic. This can be accomplished by the absence of shaping schemes on these, or by positive shaping (prioritization over others).

Best-Effort Traffic

Best effort traffic is all other kinds of non-detrimental traffic. This is traffic that is either not sensitive to Quality of Service metrics (jitter, packet loss, latency) or traffic that is, and the ISP is not concerned about its Quality of Service. A typical example of the former would be peer-to-peer traffic, the latter: online gaming (though there are exceptions such as [1]). Shaping schemes are generally tailored in such a way that this traffic gets 'what is left' of the bandwidth after sensitive traffic has 'taken its share'.

Undesired Traffic

This category is generally limited to the delivery of spam and traffic created by worms, botnets, and other malicious attacks. In some countries (for example, China), this definition can (and does) expand to such traffic as non-local VoIP (Skype) or video streaming services, which are squelched to create a market for the 'in-house' services of the same type. Shaping schemes usually involve identifying and blocking this traffic entirely, or just by severely hampering its operation.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18853720 Sat, 11 Aug 2007 12:54:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18852690 ottawa_guy : Well I worked for NHD in Ottawa with Convergys.

We started at $12.00 an hour
I was there 2 years got a 82 cent raise.

They shut down the NHD contracts in Canada on 7/31/2007
I am sure for phones, since the queue pages are blank completely, showing no calls nothing at all.

Commercial support is still being run from Ottawa.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18852690 Sat, 11 Aug 2007 08:16:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848727 cryptmagic : TW put there business, ahead of there customers. I have had lag for 4 weeks, and it is bad. My vonage phone, will get hit with a spike lag, and i cant hear anyone for 5 seconds, i play wow, and i get constant lag spikes. Even my XBOX live is lagging, it is that bad. I am switching to dsl, sure it may be a little slower, but i dont want to deal with this crap anymore. I have replaced my cable modem, and have a technician coming. I have spoken to the first level tecks, who asked me how to spell 'Latency', and then she told my connection was fast. I got a hold of Tier 3 tech support, either i would get a sympathic person, or someone who deney the problem, and tell me wait it out. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848727 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:59:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848395 hobgoblin :
said by RR LvL3 Manager :

Hello hobgoblin :)

I never claimed English was my FIRST language ;) Why do so many on the net,seem to think every ones first language is english. :uhh:

Above the 49th,some of us were raised in a french speaking household.Secondly,as far as I am aware,being tired is no sin,(unless one is dealing with disgruntled packet shaped RR subs) ;)

Third,you are all very free to believe whatever you want.RR is doing this with uploads and downloads.
French or tired I think you should be able to spell the name of the company you work for...but thats just me.

I would be more likely to believe what you are saying if you actually worked for RR.
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848395 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:12:51 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848306 anon : My iChat can no longer make an audio or video connection. Where once I had no problem, suddenly and very recently my iChat has been rendered worthless. More technically savvy folks think this "Packet Shaping" is the culprit. Any insight?

-B.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848306 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:57:13 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848135 Nocturnal01 : The bottom line is if they're doing it, we're screwd either way. There is no delaminating, boycotting, revolution, that we can do that would stop them from doing this. Everyone is just too content with the way their live is being run. It saddens me that we've come this far that the corporations are the ones who actually truly run our government. They cut costs at all expenses and in doing so, leave the consumer suffering in the end. It doesn't matter about being able to download a legal torrent or even browsing the newsgroups, what it comes down to is their bottom line and their profit margins. It makes me so sick to have to be living during a time like this. I truly wish more people would wake up and see what is going on with this country.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848135 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:32:07 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848093 anon : Hello hobgoblin :)

I never claimed English was my FIRST language ;) Why do so many on the net,seem to think every ones first language is english. :uhh:

Above the 49th,some of us were raised in a french speaking household.Secondly,as far as I am aware,being tired is no sin,(unless one is dealing with disgruntled packet shaped RR subs) ;)

Third,you are all very free to believe whatever you want.RR is doing this with uploads and downloads.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848093 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:25:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848078 hobgoblin :
said by swhx7 See Profile :

I say, let's get them delaminated. Letters to congresspeople and state legislators do get their attention.
What a bunch of Bollocks...funny tho

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848078 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:23:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848013 swhx7 : I agree DX, but the only way customer choice is going to prevent abuses is if there's competition in the industry. Most people in the US have only two broadband choices at most, cable and telco, and for a large percentage it's only one of these. This is the root of the whole problem. Without such oligopoly status they would have to please customers with big bandwidth, neutrality and good service.

I say, let's get them delaminated. Letters to congresspeople and state legislators do get their attention.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18848013 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 14:13:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18847555 anon : This is just my expirience so take it as you want. Newsnet downloads plumeted from steady 935KB/s to steady 255KB/s with Turbo Charged RR. TW did not provide acceptable solution or explanation so I cancelled Turbo and my TV service on top of that. Right now I am looking for alternative service in order to cancel RR completely. TW will not feel too much pain with loosing $150 per month but what if, let's just say what if 200,000 user does same think I did? I bet they will take a notice and reconsider their actions.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18847555 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:14:54 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18846692 swhx7 : The article implies a stealth shaping program.

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

Time Warner spokesperson Alex Dudley [:] "We don't have a network management policy called packet shaping," he said.

Do they have one called by some other name?

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

"None of our network management policies are designed to impact a customer's ability to play World of Warcraft."

Well of course they're not designed for exactly that purpose. Could it be an effect tho?

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

Dudley also denied the legitimacy of a news release detailing Time Warner's nationwide rollout of packet shaping technology, which would potentially cause the same connection difficulties for Time Warner subscribers everywhere. The text of the release had been revealed on forums at DSLreports.com, and posters said Road Runner customer service representatives had e-mailed the information to them in response to service complaints.

"We don't issue releases that outline our network management policies or changes to that policy," Dudley said. "Customer service reps don't send that stuff to folks."

He doesn't deny it; apparently they didn't mean for it to get out.

said by article quoted by cryptmagic See Profile :

Dudley said connection issues affecting NYC-area customers playing other games--like Valve's Counter Strike--also would be resolved.

They'll minimize discontent for now at least. If traffic discrimination is legalized though, look for all the cable providers and telcos to start charging customers and non-customers by the type of traffic and its origin and destination.

Again, it's not an issue of amount of traffic. It's discriminatory carriage policies that are objectionable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18846692 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 11:20:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18846391 anon : i just up'ed my account on giganews to diamond with ssl and it has boosted me back up to my full 8000kbps down ;-p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18846391 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:31:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845813 kshymkiw :
said by Anonymous_ See Profile :

i think there only
Shaping the upload


it kind of odd that i am able to download 550KByte/s wit a s888 load of seeds

but the upload is jumpey from 115 to 99Kbyte/s
That is not very jumpy at all. A flucuation of less than 30 K is nothing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845813 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:37:57 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845398 Anonymous_ : i think there only
Shaping the upload


it kind of odd that i am able to download 550KByte/s wit a s888 load of seeds

but the upload is jumpey from 115 to 99Kbyte/s]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845398 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 04:40:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845296 djrobx : Ok, let me qualify that, you can hook up 80 TVs with appropriate signal amplification, and your data speeds will be unaffected. The poster I was responding to (BigRooster) hypothesized that his three TVs were taking away "bandwidth" from the modem. They do not.

Your speeds should be exactly the same with a -13db signal strength as they are with a +13, assuming the SNR stays the same. People worry unnecessarily about negative power levels and splitters. You will not inherently get "lower RR speed" by splitting the cable signal. That will only happen if the signal becomes SO weak (causing a SNR drop) that modem can no longer correctly decode the stream.

Now, in your instance, it may very well be that the jack you're talking about splitting is already on the borderline. In that case you need to amplify the signal before it's lost. Digital TV suffers just like your cablemodem does. Either it works properly, or your picture suffers from highly noticeable break-up each time data gets lost. The strength of the signal itself isn't really important as long the Signal (SNR) is good.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845296 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 03:27:35 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845173 Mele20 :
said by djrobx See Profile :

This isn't like U-verse. The data for the digital cable channels are coming in on a different frequency than your cablemodem data. You can have 80 TVs hooked up and none of it will make a difference to your cablemodem speed.
I don't know about digital tv but it makes a considerable difference with analog. The signal has to be split and you get a lower speed on RR if you also have a TV. This is one reason I never replaced my TV when it died about 5 years ago.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845173 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 02:42:18 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844899 hobgoblin :
said by djrobx See Profile :

This isn't like U-verse. The data for the digital cable channels are coming in on a different frequency than your cablemodem data. You can have 80 TVs hooked up and none of it will make a difference to your cablemodem speed.
and also.... Http downloads are not affected...if you read the thread
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844899 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 01:10:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844766 djrobx : This isn't like U-verse. The data for the digital cable channels are coming in on a different frequency than your cablemodem data. You can have 80 TVs hooked up and none of it will make a difference to your cablemodem speed.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844766 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:39:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844753 BigRooster : I've noticed slower speeds with News Groups and HTTP downloads over the past 2 months. News Groups seems to be "capped" at 500, and I get maybe 300 over HTTP from west coast servers. I have no idea if this is due to packet shaping and if it is, then that's fine with me.

The decrease in my internet speed could also be attributed to the fact that I have Digital Cable on 2 TVs and standard cable on a 3rd TV (without receiver). That, on top of internet, is a lot of bandwidth to be flowing through the house.

Oh and I just passed my 2 year mark as a DSLR member. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844753 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 00:36:56 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844414 chRoniX10 : I've yet to experience packet shaping of any type. I can successful maximize my download bandwidth when I'm downloading through Newsgroups or torrents. The speed remains pretty much stable throughout the download. I think it's really just a bunch of unproven speculation.
--
~smooth operator~]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18844414 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:34:44 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843683 hobgoblin :
said by RR LvL3 Manager :

I make 18.25 an hour,and have worked for RR( through Convergsys ) since 2001.

$18.25 an hour gets you someone who can't spell the name of the company they work for!

Convergys.

:)
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843683 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 21:20:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843653 conchshell : Will you guys be doing monitoring akin to what at&t is promising. OT, but one of the arguments they use for it is bandwidth management.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843653 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 21:15:42 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843619 Mele20 : If you really are a RR manager then how come you hid behind an anon posting? If you want me to believe you register here and then post your credentials and some written statement that RR is implementing packet shaping in this manner. I no longer know what to believe because we have seen no official statement. If Time Warner has an official statement on this matter please provide it and don't bother muddying the waters further by anon posting.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843619 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 21:10:11 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843542 anon : They Start at 14.35 an hour actually :) And have decent benefits as well.

I make 18.25 an hour,and have worked for RR( through Convergsys ) since 2001.

Yes we are doing 'packet shaping' And over the next year,it
will be rolled out over larger,and larger parts of the US.
The whole country should be fully covered by Q3 of 2008.

Mr Dudley was only reading a prepared script.RR has been using packet shaping tools for years now actually.RR is
investing heavily in this tech,far more now then over the past few years.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843542 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:54:40 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843129 Mele20 : Not a network engineer. This person's exact title I don't know. He's been promoted twice in the last few years and I guess I never asked his current title. Duh. He's above tier 3 (used to be a tier 3 tech and was one of the very best) which could mean manager of tier 3, as he and another person there have duties that would make them like tier 3 managers but also co-ordinators with network engineering, field techs, etc.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843129 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:31:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843039 Nocturnal01 : Exactly mele20! It's unbelievable that they'd do this to so many people who are legitimately using BT to release patches, programs, updates, whatever. It's really unbelievable that they'd go so far to do this. It truly upsets me. Just out of curiousity did you talk to a network engineer or a manager of the tier 3 guys?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843039 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:17:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843026 Mele20 : It may not be true. Indeed, someone in management at Oceanic said this was coming to Hawaii via the RDC at Orange, but this person was passing on what he had heard not a written communication from TW. This whole thing may be a study in how rumors become "fact". On the other hand, perhaps packet shaping had been planned, implemented on a test basis in a few areas, caused this storm of protest, and, consequently, has been put on the back burner.

I used Bit Torrent a couple of nights ago at 400KB/sec download. (This was for software that was unavailable by other means. The author wants users to use BitTorrent). The person I had spoken with at Oceanic fully grasped the problems with implementing something like packet shaping because more and more software vendors are asking users to download via BitTorrent. That leaves this technology to wrestle with distinguishing between legal and illegal content and clumsily charging into the moral/legal arena surrounding music downloads and the RIAA.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18843026 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 19:15:47 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842837 Nocturnal01 : Wow, hearing that Hawaii will be affected leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. I use both protocols, BT and NG and have not recently tested this out. The last time I used my NG was about two weeks ago.

I'm going to go home a test this out. I really feel that this is BS. Man, this, people coming down on modchips, what is next? We should just outright turn off the freaking Internet.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842837 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:47:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842713 cryptmagic : Check this article, keep complaining to Time Warner. Blizzard Entertainment, accused TW of Packet Shaping, check out thier response.
»www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/48374
Time Warner Vows to Fix World of Warcraft Problems, Denies Blizzard's Claims
by Carlos Bergfeld Aug 09, 2007 4:11pm CST
Connection problems plaguing New York City-area World of Warcraft subscribers using Time Warner Cable's Road Runner Internet service will be resolved "as soon as possible," Time Warner spokesperson Alex Dudley told Shacknews.

Many NYC-area subscribers on the Road Runner internet service have experienced severe connection difficulties on World of Warcraft servers since July, as detailed in a 25-page thread in the World of Warcraft forums.

Blizzard administrators attempting to resolve the issue placed the blame squarely on an alleged change in Time Warner's network management policy. "The cause of these other issues seems to be being blamed on the packet shaping protocols that Time Warner/Road Runner has recently implemented," a Blizzard employee said in the forum. "Our network administrators are continuing to examine what the cause may be, but at this time the cause does seem to be this packet shaping software."

However, Dudley refuted this statement, saying that Time Warner has not implemented a change like this to its service, though it holds the right to do so. "We don't have a network management policy called packet shaping," he said. "None of our network management policies are designed to impact a customer's ability to play World of Warcraft."

Dudley also denied the legitimacy of a news release detailing Time Warner's nationwide rollout of packet shaping technology, which would potentially cause the same connection difficulties for Time Warner subscribers everywhere. The text of the release had been revealed on forums at DSLreports.com, and posters said Road Runner customer service representatives had e-mailed the information to them in response to service complaints.

"We don't issue releases that outline our network management policies or changes to that policy," Dudley said. "Customer service reps don't send that stuff to folks." Dudley said connection issues affecting NYC-area customers playing other games--like Valve's Counter Strike--also would be resolved. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842713 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:29:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842306 swintec :
said by Christechsupport :

i believe using torrents is illegal in the US.....so why are you compaining about it, be thankfull you can even use them
Nothing illegal about USING torrents, its the content within that may be questionable.
--
BlockNews.Net- Quality Usenet Block Accounts]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842306 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 17:28:36 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842228 anon : i believe using torrents is illegal in the US.....so why are you compaining about it, be thankfull you can even use them]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18842228 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 17:17:52 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18834930 hobgoblin : I dont believe I have seen any EVIDENCE in this thread.

Just lots of speculation.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18834930 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:36:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18834845 swhx7 : Reporting back... I don't know whether this is supposed to have affected Austin, TX but I have not noticed any difference in service here.

I'm not sure how to reliably distinguish slowdowns due to shaping, from slowness due to congested paths, or due to the software or device at the other end of the connection. I suppose the only way to tell would be testing with collaboration of someone on another ISP and maybe another backbone; or looking for an overall pattern of consistent slowdowns.

Anyway I use various protocols and network software at various times of day, including big downloads and uploads sometimes. The speeds vary a lot - but no more so now that they ever have. My experience is consistent with no shaping. I will continue looking out for it tho.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18834845 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:25:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18829631 islandbound : "Well said. This is why we need network neutrality legislation. ISPs ought to be, by law, "common carriers" such that it is none of their business what the customer is using the connection for. The electric utility simply bills me by the kilowatt, and has no right to try to set different terms depending on whether I'm using I'm using the watts for a light bulb or a lawn mower. Large ISPs obviously want a different rule and this has to be stopped."


I beg to differ maybe it's different in the US of A but here in Canada, if you are a non commercial user, and you are using excessive power, they can actually contact the police, because of unusual use of electricity, aka people growing pot, or manufacturing other illegal drugs..so it DOES happen everywhere...regardless of what you may think.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18829631 Tue, 07 Aug 2007 19:38:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800698 Mele20 : Yes, I didn't think they only make $7 an hour. You are right that they deal with products and they are the exclusive dealers if you have a question or problem with RR dialup.

But until recently, you were supposed to go through tier 2 on connectivity problems and if they could not fix it then you were given a ticket and they transferred you to tier 3. They are much superior to tier 1 for connectivity problems. Tier 1 knows nothing about anything...at least here. They are very nice but you usually are wasting your time and would do better to call tier 2 directly. Now though if you call Oceanic TW you will automatically get tier 3 first (no going through tier 1 who used to send you on to tier 2 who then would send you back to tier 3) if there is a tier 3 tech available and since more have been hired usually there is one available. It is a much better system now.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800698 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:33:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800562 hobgoblin :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

How do you know the techs at the National Help Desk don't have a clue? I have found them usually quite good at what they do but generally my problems have required tier 3 and I am glad we no longer have to go through tier 2 to get to tier 3.
The NHD are responsible in the most cases for products. Email, Newsgroups, security software etc.

Tier 1 and 3 for connectivity issues.

They earn more than 7 bucks btw.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800562 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 23:08:01 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800267 Mele20 : How do you know the techs at the National Help Desk don't have a clue? I have found them usually quite good at what they do but generally my problems have required tier 3 and I am glad we no longer have to go through tier 2 to get to tier 3.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800267 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:18:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800128 kshymkiw : your point? you talked with a Tier 2 Agent in Canada making 7 bucks an hour, who doesn't have a clue.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18800128 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:00:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18799544 anon : Andy M : Hello! Thank you for choosing Time Warner Cable Road Runner technical chat. My name is Andrew. Before we begin, I would like to bring up your account. May I have the following three pieces of information from you please?

1. The account holder's area code and telephone number. (xxx-xxx-xxxx) 2. The account holder's Full Name. (First and Last) 3. If you are not the account holder, please provide your name.
xxxxxxx: hwy are my dload speeds in the newsgroup so slow the last two days - usually 4.7 Mbps and now 2.0 Mbps
xxxxxxx: xxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxx: xxxxxxxxxxx
Andy M : Thank you. I can help you with that.
Andy M : Is it just the news downloads affected.
xxxxxxxx: yes sir
Andy M : My understanding is that this is due to Network Management Policy, which affects bandwidth allocated for peer 2 peer applications and Newsgroups.
Andy M : This, I am told, should only impact binary groups, particularly for customers using 3rd party software that attempts to DL on multiple streams
xxxxxxxx: should i limit the streams, or will it not matter
xxxxxxxx: it is just going to be slower, eh?
Andy M : It is just going to be slower.
xxxxxxxx: cool andy - that is what i needed to know - thanks
xxxxxxxx: have a great night
Andy M : You're welcome. You too.
Andy M : Are there any other technical issues we can assist you with?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18799544 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 20:32:17 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18796297 kshymkiw : Why would a game use a torrent protocol? WOW Uses UDP just like every other game]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18796297 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 12:08:48 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18796127 grandpinaple : From what I understand WOW uses the torrent protocal or something like that, which means it might be affected. They don't discriminate based on what exactly it is just if it is usenet or torrent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18796127 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:41:42 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795990 kshymkiw : no one has any idea at all.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795990 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 11:17:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795813 pcmodem : true enough. does anyone know if they are already utilizing this in NY, and if so - what day did it go online?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795813 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:47:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795793 kshymkiw :
said by pcmodem See Profile :

Does anyone know if this technology could potentially be affecting gaming? There seems to be alot of TWC customers reporting problems in games like World Of Warcraft complaining of periods where data does not seem to be flowing between the game server and them of about 5 seconds, with a return to normal speeds for an indeterminate time (hours, minutes, seconds, many reporting peak hours are much worse) before occuring again.
Gaming is high priority/sensitive traffic which means it would not be affected by any Packet Shaping]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795793 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:43:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795777 pcmodem : Does anyone know if this technology could potentially be affecting gaming? There seems to be alot of TWC customers reporting problems in games like World Of Warcraft complaining of periods where data does not seem to be flowing between the game server and them of about 5 seconds, with a return to normal speeds for an indeterminate time (hours, minutes, seconds, many reporting peak hours are much worse) before occuring again.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18795777 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:40:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776779 CommonMan : Well I do intend to try it. I mean, the tech is coming this Friday to install everything and then I find this thread: hence my original inquiry. Just slightly unnerving, you know? :)

If it doesn't work out, there's another provider called "WOW" that is in my area. The reason we didn't go with them is that we would a channel my wife loves dearly.

Thanks for the insight, however. From what you have said this should, in theory, be faster than what I had to begin with. (which from what you saw of the speeds wasn't too hard)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776779 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:06:16 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776586 swintec : You are right, on the whole, it should not make much of a difference. I believe, base don the speeds you are coming from, even the throttled speeds are higher than that. There is no contract with TW, why not try it and see if it effects you that much?
--
BlockNews.Net- Quality Usenet Block Accounts]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776586 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:36:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776542 CommonMan : Ok, so I'm about to switch to regular RR on TWC and I'm in CBUS, Ohio. I use BT, I'm a pretty active internet guy in a variety of different bandwidth-focused activities. I'm coming off an old 150k/down 40k/up DSL connection with AT&T on the east side of town.

I'm getting mixed signals here, am I screwed with my p2p stuff or not? From what some other folks are telling me, a lot of this is hype and innuendo as well. Speaking from a position of common sense, it seems that while this may slow down some bandwidth-intensive endeavors a little bit, on the whole it should not make much of a difference (if it's even implemented in this area at all).

Am I summarizing this right? Cause this back-and-forth is confusing as hell.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776542 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 15:29:30 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724642 swintec :
said by ssault See Profile :

said by swintec See Profile :

said by ssault See Profile :

For what must be the 1,000,000th time...YOU WILL NOT SEE PACKET SHAPING ON AN HTTP SPEEDTEST!!!
You won't always see it on Torrent or Newsgroup downloads either.
Yet when anything goes wrong on someones connection, they seem to blame it on packet shaping.

"My SMTP server isn't working??? Damn packet shaping!"
Of course, before it was "overloaded node" or packet loss or even Time Warner's overloaded "servers"...now packet shaping is all the rage. :D
--
BlockNews.Net- Quality Usenet Block Accounts]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724642 Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:45:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724574 ssault :
said by swintec See Profile :

said by ssault See Profile :

For what must be the 1,000,000th time...YOU WILL NOT SEE PACKET SHAPING ON AN HTTP SPEEDTEST!!!
You won't always see it on Torrent or Newsgroup downloads either.
Yet when anything goes wrong on someones connection, they seem to blame it on packet shaping.

"My SMTP server isn't working??? Damn packet shaping!"
--
I'm not racist, I hate equally.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724574 Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:32:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724564 swintec :
said by ssault See Profile :

For what must be the 1,000,000th time...YOU WILL NOT SEE PACKET SHAPING ON AN HTTP SPEEDTEST!!!
You won't always see it on Torrent or Newsgroup downloads either.
--
BlockNews.Net- Quality Usenet Block Accounts]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724564 Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:29:57 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724529 ssault : For what must be the 1,000,000th time...YOU WILL NOT SEE PACKET SHAPING ON AN HTTP SPEEDTEST!!!
--
I'm not racist, I hate equally.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724529 Sun, 22 Jul 2007 15:23:15 EDT Packet Shaping? What Packet Shaping? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724143 anon :

;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18724143 Sun, 22 Jul 2007 14:03:36 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18723830 chRoniX10 : I haven't seen any changes. I am able to maximize my connection on both torrents and http. Latency is also very good when playing CS.
--
~smooth operator~]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18723830 Sun, 22 Jul 2007 13:02:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18690456 djrobx :
quote:
Does this affect TWC Users in the Los Angeles area?
I am in the LA area, and I have not seen the slightest change in my Road Runner service since I ordered it a few months ago, before the purported national packet shaping went into effect. Either it hasn't been implemented here, or there's enough capacity to where the shaping isn't noticeable.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18690456 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:20:36 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18690094 isamu99 : Does this affect TWC Users in the Los Angeles area?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18690094 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:36:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18686819 anon : If RR couldn't keep up their services for all of us then why the hell do they sell those kinds of services! That's like false advertisement, right?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18686819 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:04:05 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18686814 anon : My thoughts exactly! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18686814 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 07:00:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18675302 Papasha : Just one question I have to TWC: What will be price increase for this "improvement"? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18675302 Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:34:21 EDT Switch Jobs? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18673828 anon : Sweet JNC! 15 mb for premium? We only give 10 at BHN in CFL i still dont get ten though maybe 5 on the hardwired tower... lucky if i get 2 on the laptop.. chalkin it all up to a cheap linksys g router though. Mmmm mebbe shoot the extra 5mb my way? :D :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18673828 Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:21:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18666329 Ogrt48 : This is bs. My newsgroups is so damn slow now, pathetic service. I'll be filing complaints with the BBB and whoever else I can. In the mean time I'll be switching out my phone, tv and internet to different companies.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18666329 Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:15:12 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18665988 jnc2000 : Yes I work for TWC, however I work in the NEO divison
I can not tell you much about the service in Columbus.

What I see from our matrix RR turbo should be at 15mbps down and 768kbps up

RR standard should be at 7/512 respectively

Now don't quote me on this but that is what I see as of today from my desk.

The website appears to be a bit outdated.
--
"It is common sense to take a method and try it.
If it fails, admit it frankly and try another.
But above all, try something."
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18665988 Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:11:52 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18658662 Dragonsfire7 : I presume by your post jnc2000 that you work with/for Time Warner.

How much do you know about the service in Delaware? I know that is not NEO but Columbus division.

What are the correct speeds for standard RR and for Premium. I get told one thing on the phone and web site reads different numbers. Speed tests I run VS. testing agains my work ftp site vary greatly. I am just wondering what I should expect when our house is done in Delaware.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18658662 Thu, 12 Jul 2007 12:30:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18657469 jnc2000 : I can assure you it has not.

As I stated before NEO has no plan to implement packet shaping of any sort at this time.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18657469 Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:24:42 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18655785 anon : pretty sure this packet shaping thing has hit NEO as I just tested my connection with speedtest.net and the download was 6090 kb/s...usenet download speed is currently hovering around 125kb/s...

shitty. why am i paying for this connection when i am limited to 125kb/s ? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18655785 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 22:34:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18629631 Evan110185 : Toshiba PCX2000

Last CmStatus - prior reset:

Power Level:
Received:1.9 dBmV Transmitted:43.2 dBmV

Received SNR:33.1 dB

Frequency:
Downstream:609.000 MHz Upstream:33.008 MHz

User Set Parameter:
Polling Time:No Polling]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18629631 Sat, 07 Jul 2007 14:10:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18628239 Ramadear : Has this hit the Northeast Ohio area? I've noticed when I use newgroups it freezes for 5mins or so before downloading again, could just be a connection issue because everything else works fine. Happens in the day time and night time, so it doesn't seem like it could be packet shaping, but I'm not for certain.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18628239 Sat, 07 Jul 2007 04:57:22 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18627933 Gib4500 : What kind of modem did they give you to use? It sounds like it could possibly be a modem problem? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18627933 Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:22:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18627912 Evan110185 : I just got RR this week.

Ive noticed whenever I'm downloading anything at a fast speed, even a simple zip file from a website, my connection goes dead for like 30 seconds to 1 minute. It seems like I can only download files over 500kb/s for 5-10 minutes max before this happens. It happens with both torrents and http.

I'm not sure if this is b/c of packet shaping or just some other problem im having with them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18627912 Sat, 07 Jul 2007 02:13:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18609507 Anonymous_ :
said by Bytezboy See Profile :

I can upload at max speed without affecting my download speed much now. :D
Same Here!!

i get 300-400KBytes/s(torrent)(from Japanese uploader) with variable upload of (100-130KBytes)(torrent) yay!! for Packet Shaping :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
--
Global warming did not eat my homework.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18609507 Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:02:05 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18593818 Penguins : Found the problem.
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18593818 Sat, 30 Jun 2007 19:27:47 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588570 Pure : Youz guyz kill me :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588570 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:29:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588456 dbmaven : I didn't hear about the merger of TW and GEICO?? When did that happen ?
[attachment=1]
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588456 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:06:16 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588435 swintec :
said by PhoenixDown See Profile :

My pings dropped from 30ms to 9ms after TWC fixed their network!
My pings went down to 2 ms AND I saved a bunch of money on my car insurance since TW packet shaping! Thanks TW!
--
Alarm Clocks Kill Dreams]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588435 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:02:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588331 Bytezboy : I can upload at max speed without affecting my download speed much now. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18588331 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 16:38:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587989 PhoenixDown : My pings dropped from 30ms to 9ms after TWC fixed their network!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587989 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:31:42 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587972 kba4 :
said by vick04 See Profile :

Well since packet shaping was announced my pings have dropped from 80ms to 68ms for servers in Texas. Packet shaping is pretty sweet for people not trying to download copyrighted content!
fixed that for ya
--
illegal wars, prisoners with no trials, and state controlled media. welcome to the land of the free!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587972 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:28:44 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587737 vick04 : Well since packet shaping was announced my pings have dropped from 80ms to 68ms for servers in Texas. Packet shaping is pretty sweet for people not trying to download copyrighted content!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587737 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:49:16 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587658 niagara_man1 : All Time Warner Propaganda spewwing from all over!!??

Well to the people who read this forum.I Actually know, from a few good techs in buffalo, that the packet shaping is like in 1 or possible 2 areas.

And I was informed that the buffalo area will not be getting anytime soon.

I am suspecting that most other areas (Divisions) are the same.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18587658 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 14:33:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18585535 jnc2000 : Until I see something on my desk to this effect it is rumor.

Until each headend UBR is fitted with a DPI device this is rumor.

Until I see a release from my legal department this is rumor.

That is all.

Now I am speaking specifically about NEO division, but also understand the legal department is National and they have not sent us notice.

Once again this is an internet forum. Rumors fly all over the internet everyday.

Take as you wish.

I will speak no more on this subject.
--
"It is common sense to take a method and try it.
If it fails, admit it frankly and try another.
But above all, try something."
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18585535 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 06:28:15 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18585472 Mele20 :
said by kba4 See Profile :

An undersea cable, on the other hand, is a completely different issue, there isn't much redundancy in that case. A better solution I think for Hawaii, is to use proxy-servers. That way, at least frequently accessed data could be served up faster locally. Of course a large majority of the net is dynamic but this would certainly cut down on activity a little.
RR had proxy servers in all divisions. Of course, I did not allow the RR software to be installed when I got RR over six years ago, but a lot of folks all over the country used RR proxy servers for years. If that was ever forced on me I would leave RR immediately. Earthlink doesn't use Proxy servers. Everyone would just move to them. The RR proxy servers were HORRIBLE back when they were using them.

We have THREE underwater cables between Hawaii and California. There is PLENTY OF BANDWIDTH AVAILABLE. That is not a problem here.

Anyhow,SouthernCal is instituting packet shaping just as are all TW franchises. Hawaii is California when it comes to RR so the decision is made there at the RDC in Orange and the decision has already been made just as it has in all RR franchises.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18585472 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:52:29 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18585464 kba4 : I can understand their thinking for the SoCal area, as bandwidth truly is limited, so far as they don't upgrade the backbone. But for the rest of the country, I see no logical reason for mandating a slow lane. As many techs have posted in various threads, TW has laid a lot of fiber in most of the larger divisions, NEO being one of the largest. It'd be foolish not to utilize the investment. An undersea cable, on the other hand, is a completely different issue, there isn't much redundancy in that case. A better solution I think for Hawaii, is to use proxy-servers. That way, at least frequently accessed data could be served up faster locally. Of course a large majority of the net is dynamic but this would certainly cut down on activity a little.
--
illegal wars, prisoners with no trials, and state controlled media. welcome to the land of the free!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18585464 Fri, 29 Jun 2007 05:42:35 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18583604 Mele20 : It's not rumor. Management told me it will be applied to Southern Cal (Hawaii) within a few weeks. This was phone conversation so I don't have an email I can quote but this management person is someone I have known since I got RR over six years ago and if he says it is coming then it is coming.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18583604 Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:41:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18580277 jnc2000 : all rumor

/end story.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18580277 Thu, 28 Jun 2007 09:38:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562352 Mele20 :
said by Anonymous_ See Profile :

i can ping them

SOcal baby :p
Yeah. I can ping them now also. But I couldn't the other day. There was 100% packet loss on the final hop on Ping Plotter Pro. I am SOcal also although that is kicking and screaming that I am such. Hawaii is NOT California and the RDC here should never have been ripped away from us. BAH on TW corporate for punishing Oceanic. We've had nothing but all the crap SOCal problems since our RDC was taken away. Now we are being forced to ask corporate for mirror sites for DNS and DHCP because of the ineptness in SOCal that has knocked the entire state off line several times in the last month (during the daytime too which really has pissed businesses off).
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562352 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 04:03:45 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562192 kba4 : Is there any real confirmation of this or is it all rumors? I mean, so far, I haven't heard anyone admit to it, and I've spoken to maybe 10 people from the local office to the help desk in the past week due to other issues which I assumed was due to the packet-shaping going on. No one says it even exists; in fact most don't know anything about it.

So where's the official news? I agree that the 'turbo' service would be worthless with the shaping but I've gotten consistent speeds for over a week from good links, no matter what protocol is in use. BT shows well over 1MBps for a good .torrent, and the OOL FTP site hovers around 1.1MBps download as well. I've even been getting upwards of 730Kbps UL, sometimes hitting 880+ on a good FTP server, lasting over 10mins.
--
illegal wars, prisoners with no trials, and state controlled media. welcome to the land of the free!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562192 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 02:13:15 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562117 Anonymous_ : i can ping them

SOcal baby :p

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping tpb.tracker.thepiratebay.org.

Pinging tpb.tracker.thepiratebay.org [85.17.40.227] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=38
Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=173ms TTL=38
Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=180ms TTL=38
Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=177ms TTL=38

Ping statistics for 85.17.40.227:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 173ms, Maximum = 180ms, Average = 176ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping tpb.tracker.thepiratebay.org

Pinging tpb.tracker.thepiratebay.org [85.17.40.227] with 32 bytes of data:

Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=175ms TTL=38
Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=172ms TTL=38
Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=171ms TTL=38
Reply from 85.17.40.227: bytes=32 time=174ms TTL=38

Ping statistics for 85.17.40.227:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 171ms, Maximum = 175ms, Average = 173ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>
--
Global warming did not eat my homework.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562117 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:27:40 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562104 anon : Some parts of Astoria actually have RCN as well. When I lived there I went with TWC anyway, but with this packet shaping business maybe I'd think differently.

Annoyed at this packet shaping though, even though I haven't noticed it so far.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562104 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:21:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559756 anon : its funny not once have you tried PORT FORWARDING in your router, that is the main problem that stops bittorrent from going through. Without port forwarding you will get little to no speed, when i connected to my router, before i got it setup for port forwarding, i was getting 4KB on a torrent, went in, set it to forward the port to my IP address, and within seconds, it jumped to 300KB. Since you never mentioned trying that, its obvious that you dont know that much about the internet and should not be posting your uninformed opinions here.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559756 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:16:18 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18554025 NormanS : Just curious. What if they only guaranteed a full 15Mbps 15% of the time, instead of 24/7. Would you pay for that sort of service? (Not that they are guaranteeing full speed 24/7 now; as I said: "Just curious".)
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18554025 Sat, 23 Jun 2007 04:32:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18553715 armyvet : reply to Dampier
Here's a novel idea for TWC:

Upgrade the system to support your ADVERTISED speeds.

My god, but that might SATISFY the customers, can't have that!

you got that right]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18553715 Sat, 23 Jun 2007 01:40:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552886 anon : I am able to connect to my torrents at this time, and am smack dab in the middle of SoCal, but I'm not torrenting from anything like tpb. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552886 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:30:52 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552786 anon : BT is officially down in SoCal.

I can connect to DHT and see tons of hubs, 200+
I cannot even ping tpb.tracker.thepiratebay.org.

Try it yourselves.

No peers, no seeds, nada.
I've tried to use common ports such as mail/ftp/telnet/etc....nothing.

Full blockage, this goose is well done cooked.

BTW, in case you're wondering....
I walked across the street to my buddies house and tried his puter/connex...nada.
I walked down the alley to a different buddies house...nothing, nada.
Both are on RR.

92648 is offline to BT.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552786 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 22:12:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552326 Baseline : It's funny too because they just doubled our speed to 15/2 in WNY to compete with FIOS coming toward our area, but on newsgroups, I'm going way slower now than I was a week ago.

They must've implemented the packet shaping on NG's.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552326 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:26:51 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552315 swintec :
said by miscnick :

SoCal hit.

Currently no way to connect to BitTorrent.
I have tried all ports from 21 to 61k +.

I get "connection closed by peer".
No matter what I try on this end (and that includes using my linksys SRX adapter to grab other IP's).

If you can not even connect to peers, that is not shaping, that would be outright blocking, but I doubt they would go as far as this.
--
Alarm Clocks Destroy Dreams]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552315 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:24:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552310 anon : SoCal hit.

Currently no way to connect to BitTorrent.
I have tried all ports from 21 to 61k +.

I get "connection closed by peer".
No matter what I try on this end (and that includes using my linksys SRX adapter to grab other IP's).

Just out of curiousity I removed/reinstalled my wireless, uTorrent, and my firewall....even tried removing any and all firewall/anti-virals just to be extra sure.

RoadRunner is now unworthy of my dollar, they will see not one more from me.

FIOS here I come.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552310 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:22:42 EDT Re: My time warner is fine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552282 Mele20 : I was told packet shaping would be applied to FTP. Perhaps, that will not actually occur. It is not here in the Southern Cal Division yet so I guess we have to wait and see. This management person was telling me what he had learned after I had inquired about it when talking to tier 3 techs who didn't know anything about it but relayed my questions to him. What he was told may or may not have been entirely correct and there is no way to check when the division doesn't yet have it. Perhaps, at first, it will be applied only to Bit Torrent and NGs and later to FTP after folks get used to it. Time Warner is keeping quiet about it. As far as I know there still has been no official press release.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552282 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:17:23 EDT Re: My time warner is fine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552215 swintec :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

As for packet shaping not affecting speed tests. It will affect the best speed tests such as the OOL FTP test.
Since when is this affecting the file transfer protocol? The port isnt even close to that of Newsgroups and Torrents, not to mention the protocol itself is a core poart of the internet as we know it. What are you basing this off of?
--
Alarm Clocks Destroy Dreams]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552215 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 20:01:11 EDT Re: My time warner is fine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552176 Mele20 : It doesn't mean anything? Really? Then how come a management official at Time Warner in Hawaii told me that packet shaping is already in effect in many divisions and will be coming to Southern Cal division (of which Hawaii is a part) within a few weeks? He told me that all downloads from News Groups and Bit Torrent will be subject to packet shaping. This will include all legitimate programs that require you to use, or strongly suggest that you use, Bit Torrent to download. That is the part I object to as that means that when I download the latest 3DMark that I will have to suffer it taking forever even though I am not stealing movies or music but downloading legitimate software which requires or strongly suggests using Bit Torrent.

As for packet shaping not affecting speed tests. It will affect the best speed tests such as the OOL FTP test.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18552176 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:53:09 EDT My time warner is fine http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18551559 anon : time warner has been doing packet shaping for years. The thing to remember is that packet shaping isnt aimed at lowering speeds for stuff like p2p networking, its used to prioritize packets that are important, like VoIP, gaming, streaming, ect. It can be used for slowing down p2p and stuff, but its not. I have 5m/512, and i will often get downloads of 600-700 kbytes which is around 4-5megabits (8 bits to a byte). Also, speedtests have nothing to do with packet shaping, the speedtest is just testing your bandwith when the packet shaping is mainly about prioritizing. If your speeds are low, its usualy either a signal issue, or usage in the area, not packet shaping. Do not worry about this, it doesnt mean anything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18551559 Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:51:05 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18543607 Baseline : I'm downgrading to the standard service. I'm noticing most sites that I was downloading from a month ago and getting close to the speeds I'm paying for are now getting around 100 kb/s down on an average.

What's the point of paying for "turbo" or "extreme" or whatever when it's pretty much useless?

Plus I've noticed my average pings have gone way up this past month to voice servers and other things I've had consistently lower pings on for years.

GG Time Warner. Yeah, there's a lot of dumb customers out there, but they're not that dumb. You're gonna ultimately lose money on this one.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18543607 Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:26:16 EDT Re: RR is a SCAM now! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18541618 Mele20 :
said by qworster See Profile :

Hmmm..
I've heard they're not doing PS in SoCal yet. Could this all be caused by my RCA cable modem? For example, my experience with Terayon and Scientific Atlanta modems is they suck. Motorolas are uniformly good. How are these RCA ones?
That is correct. Packet Shaping has not reached Southern California yet. It will be a few weeks before it does but it is coming. I got this information yesterday from someone above tier 3 at Oceanic TW.

It sounds to me like you have some other problem. I can't answer your question about RCA modems. I refuse to have anything other than a Surfboard. If I were to need to replace the 5100, I'd make Oceanic search for one or let me buy my own (which they say we can't but I would fight them on that if that was the only way I could get a Surfboard). I was told that the Scientific Atlanta modems have had lots of firmware upgrades due to bugginess. There has been only one firmware upgrade to the 5100 in the more than two years I have had it and when I had the 4100 for almost 4 years there was only one firmware upgrade. The Toshibas were junk also.

I can play XM Satellite Radio and Shoutcast stations on Winamp with no drops, buffering, etc even when my connection drops to as low as 500kbps which it has been doing every evening for two weeks (we have a bandwidth shortage for Hilo and probably Kona also). It puzzles me actually that my speed can be so slow...sometimes as low as 320kbps down (on a 5ms/384kbps connection) with a Quality of Service of 35% on the Oceanic Speed test yet streaming radio is not affected.
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18541618 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:06:54 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18538564 niagara_man1 : Do not get the extreme service. I cancelled]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18538564 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:30:22 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18538165 shurwd : The problem is that it is going to knock the service down for people that are paying for premium to the standard speeds. So then why are we paying extra? Why do they even offer tiers now? If we are paying extra for the extra service but now you are going to knock us down to slower speeds because I am using that service legally? hmmm..... that would be like paying for HBO but you watched 3 movies on HBO this week so you cannot watch HBO again until next week. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18538165 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 07:23:31 EDT Re: If you get more retail customers... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18538110 anon : great now im hungry. thanks]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18538110 Wed, 20 Jun 2007 06:54:47 EDT Re: If you get more retail customers... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18534451 ssault :
said by qworster See Profile :

In other words: "Where's the beef?"
What has this thread become...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18534451 Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:04:27 EDT If you get more retail customers... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18533774 qworster : If I sell meat, and my customer base increases, then I have to buy more wholesale meat to sell them, NOT cheat/steal from customers I have!

If Time Warner gets more retail Internet customers, they should be doing the same thing...NOT cheating the customers they have so they can service new ones without buying more bandwidth.

In other words: "Where's the beef?"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18533774 Tue, 19 Jun 2007 14:14:24 EDT Re: RR is a SCAM now! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18533281 qworster : Hmmm..
I've heard they're not doing PS in SoCal yet. Could this all be caused by my RCA cable modem? For example, my experience with Terayon and Scientific Atlanta modems is they suck. Motorolas are uniformly good. How are these RCA ones?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18533281 Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:59:14 EDT Re: RR is a SCAM now! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18533133 djrobx :
quote:
Time Warner has designed packet shaping in such a way to make speed tests look good, but even moderate size downloads (~10 megs) SUCK speed wise!
That has not been my experience at all. The whole point of traffic shaping is that regular internet downloads (such as the microsoft updates) are not as impacted by heavy newsgroup and torrent usage during peak periods. Sounds like something else is wrong with your connection.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18533133 Tue, 19 Jun 2007 12:36:04 EDT RR is a SCAM now! http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18532777 qworster : I have Time Warner Extreme Internet. Here's my experience with Packet Shaping. Time Warner has designed packet shaping in such a way to make speed tests look good, but even moderate size downloads (~10 megs) SUCK speed wise! Last night I tried downloading a bunch of Microsoft upgrades. The total file size was about 30 megs. The average download speed I was getting was about 100K per second (Slower then I used to get with 1500/384 DSL!). Now we all know that Microsoft's servers are run wide open (I've seen over 1.5 Megs/sec. downloading from them). This was done after midnight Pacific time, so there wasn't much east coast traffic. During this time I did a speed test and found my speeds had been throttled back to 4400/370, less then HALF the speeds I pay for! Even web browsing was slow-the lag was almost intolerable! When the download was done, I did another speed test and found my speeds were back to normal. Even my Vonage VOIP is affected-with 1 meg uploads I shouldn't have any problems with a service that draws 90K in each direction. But I do. The other night I tried to stream a 128K radio station. It kept breaking up. I was doing NOTHING else.

Time Warner is full of S#*T claiming that this packet shaping only affects heavy downloaders. It affects ALL of us, and not in a good way!

Like I said, speed tests look like all is normal, but the reality is that Time Warner is now giving me slower speeds on the Extreme tier then the standard tier gets. And as far as the "real" (usable) speeds the standard tier gets, let's just say that Verizon's 3000/768 DSL would give them better usable speed-at under 20 dollars a month.

How is this any different then someone sticking a gun in my face and taking my money? Time Warner is ripping us off!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18532777 Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:30:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18532662 vick04 : As bad as packeting shapeing is I much rather have it for peak hours of the day than an bandwidth cap. I am a night person so the packet shaping doesnt really effect me. :P]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18532662 Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:08:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18532192 michaelk : I dont use torrent or anything like that, I really prefer the origional/physical product (in packaging), don't ask why? I just use my premium (15/768) for general use, although that does include a lot of speed tests from multiple computers on my network to check effiency. The only problem I can see personally is I have a slingbox (obviously reliant on upload). The ports for it are well above the "standard" range, something crazy like 20 some thousand to help avoid "scans" to my otherwise "stealthed" network. As long as it doesn't affect my usage "profile", I think it's probably a good idea & sounds proactive given some peoples bad speeds during peak hours (which I've never experienced).

I'm rock solid even during peak, so as long as I test @ 15/768 during that time (if implimented here in Cincinnati), I think it's a good idea (even though you P2P users will hate me). ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18532192 Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:40:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18507467 anon : when i use the ip routing tool at usenetserver i can easily hit 1800KBs. without that my usenet speed tops out at about 150KBs when it used to be no lower than 600KBs. i think my roadrunner turbo worked on usenet at top speed for one day and i was happy as could be until the next afternoon when it dropped to 100-150, seriously my girlfriend works at time warner so i get it for free, and im considering DSL, this sucks ;x

also when my usenet speed it slow, if i do a speed test on the web i hit about 1600KBs. does anyone know if its against the user agreement to use a tool like usenetservers ip routing tool? id hate to see my one and only get fired for me downloading stuff :]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18507467 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:35:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18507406 grandpinaple : Except the Cable Companies already make profits, which are in some crazy economics textbooks reported as being used for infastructure upgrades. What a ridiculous idea though, investing money to make more money, what kind of world would we live in if people did that./sarcasm
Bandwidth costs have gone down so they are also reaping more profits while maintaining a similar pricing structure. Upgrades are also a one time capital expenditure especially once they go to all fiber (they already do maintenance so replacing the occasional line doesn't count as capital expenditure). I can understand how it might be cost provocative to not oversell, but that isn't what consumers are asking. Mathematically there is a saturation point which is ideal for network to be well managed all we ask is that TW take some of our monthly fees and instead of dishing out a huge dividend to the stock holders, take some of that money to reinvest in infastructure. Theoretically if this were a free market the stock holder should suffer from customer defection. Too bad the government sealed the deal a long time ago as far as competition is concerned.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18507406 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:26:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18507308 NormanS :
said by kshymkiw See Profile :

Who said the local TWC Newtwork wasn't good for 60gig?
It wasn't my intent to imply otherwises. So I fixed my post to more accurately reflect my intent.
Remember Aggrgation. TWC uses nodes to split up areas. Some areas have 4 or 5 CMTS's and they are 2.5 Gig Links to HE. At the HE I would assume TWC has several OC 192 Links.
In thinking some more about this, I have to assume that the Road Runner engineers designed their network on some assumption of "typical" customer use, and that they obtain a sufficient amount of transit bandwidth capacity to match predicted use. So, if the local dynamic changes, then they might, indeed, need more transit capacity.

However, they likely also will need more local bandwidth capacity, as well. And that will be where the trouble begins. It will cost to add bandwidth capacity; both on the local network, and from the transit provider. But, unless Road Runner is adding more customers, thus bringing in more revenue, then the cost of upgrading bandwidth capacity has to be recovered some other way. Unless they can reduce demand, somehow.

I suspect that the problem is that the dynamic of Internet use is changing. When HSI was first deployed, people were coming from dial-up connections, and tended to be engaged in activities which weren't bandwidth intensive; web surfing, email, that sort of thing. With HSI came new possibilities, and new activities, which are bandwidth intensive.

Furthermore, higher speed tends to aggravate bandwidth intensive activities. And the cable companies advertise higher speed, e.g., in comparison with DSL. And the cable companies are increasing speed without increasing the fees. The result is often an increase in bandwidth consumption without a corresponding increase in revenue, leaving the cable companies short on the cash needed to increase capacity.

So they are faced with choices:
• Raise the Internet fees.
• Increase the customer count (and hope that doesn't increase bandwidth consumption).
• Throttle bandwidth consumption to lower levels.
• Bandwidth caps.
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18507308 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:09:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18505938 kshymkiw :
said by NormanS See Profile :

If your local network is only good for 5Gig of traffic, how does doubling the peer link from 10Gig help? 20Gig, 200Gig, or 2,000Gig of peering can't relieve the congestion of a 5Gig network.
Who said the local TWC Newtwork wasn't good for 60gig?

Remember Aggrgation. TWC uses nodes to split up areas. Some areas have 4 or 5 CMTS's and they are 2.5 Gig Links to HE. At the HE I would assume TWC has several OC 192 Links.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18505938 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:40:07 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18505641 NormanS :
said by kshymkiw See Profile :

said by carp See Profile :

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

Your right squeezing Customers. Does anyone here have any idea how much it costs TWC to turn up a 10Gig Link with Level 3?
Increasing peering point bandwidth wouldn't help. It's only a part of the overall network topology. Once the local node starts to get congested, all the peering point bandwidth in the world will not help.

Building infrastructure is not cheap so the money would have to come from somewhere, and that is usally the subscribers.

Even private enterprise networks are built like this. I have 2000 users at 100Mbps that share 2Gbps to the datacenter. That's 1Mbps of "peering" to 100Mbps of "subscription".
Actually it has alot to do with it. Your PtP traffic is Internet based traffic. Which is what is consumed.

So turning up new 10Gig Links is all they can do.
If your local network is only good for XGig of traffic, how does doubling the peer link from 10Gig help? 20XGig, 200XGig, or 2,000XGig of peering can't relieve the congestion of a 5Gig network.

EDIT: Fixed this post to comply with critiques of the numbers.

--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18505641 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 13:51:15 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504988 Trimline : No you should not be affected at all - I use the same and with H.323 standard and MPEG4 video (Vizufon 4500), you would be fine with a 1500/328 DSL connection. In total, I bet your not even using the entire 384Kbps (fast 30 FPS) today.

You're not even a blip on the radar :)
--
FWD#537129]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504988 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 12:02:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504815 kshymkiw :
said by carp See Profile :

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

Your right squeezing Customers. Does anyone here have any idea how much it costs TWC to turn up a 10Gig Link with Level 3?
Increasing peering point bandwidth wouldn't help. It's only a part of the overall network topology. Once the local node starts to get congested, all the peering point bandwidth in the world will not help.

Building infrastructure is not cheap so the money would have to come from somewhere, and that is usally the subscribers.

Even private enterprise networks are built like this. I have 2000 users at 100Mbps that share 2Gbps to the datacenter. That's 1Mbps of "peering" to 100Mbps of "subscription".
Actually it has alot to do with it. Your PtP traffic is Internet based traffic. Which is what is consumed.

So turning up new 10Gig Links is all they can do. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504815 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:28:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504758 carp :
said by kshymkiw See Profile :

Your right squeezing Customers. Does anyone here have any idea how much it costs TWC to turn up a 10Gig Link with Level 3?
Increasing peering point bandwidth wouldn't help. It's only a part of the overall network topology. Once the local node starts to get congested, all the peering point bandwidth in the world will not help.

Building infrastructure is not cheap so the money would have to come from somewhere, and that is usally the subscribers.

Even private enterprise networks are built like this. I have 2000 users at 100Mbps that share 2Gbps to the datacenter. That's 1Mbps of "peering" to 100Mbps of "subscription".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504758 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:18:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504748 ace111170 : Hmmm..Will the shaping policy affect video conferencing? I suppose it would..

I guess I can understand shaping in order to prevent PtP traffic from being a problem...but..

I used standards-based (H.323) video conferencing to have meetings with home. I use a Polycom F/X or Polycom PVX desktop software to d this.

I run most calls at 384Kbps, sometimes 256Kbps and the calls run usually 1 hour to 90 minutes.

I would hope they would leave H.323 alone..but then again...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504748 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:16:54 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504362 kshymkiw : Your right squeezing Customers. Does anyone here have any idea how much it costs TWC to turn up a 10Gig Link with Level 3?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504362 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:47:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504344 swhx7 :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

... That is how I came to get Bittorrent as I don't do P2P or binary NG downloading. I've already discussed this with TW here as we should not be punished. We are not stealing so what is TW's justification for punishing users who are doing legitimate downloads during "prime time"?

RR is not trying to distinguish copyright-infringing from non-infringing traffic with this new policy. It's just based on type of traffic by protocol, ports or connection patterns. They will degrade high-bandwidth traffic for the benefit of low-bandwidth traffic (maybe preferring latency-sensitive types such as VOIP?).

It's about squeezing customers instead of increasing capacity, not trying to be the copyright police. Though they might try that too sooner or later (see ATT story).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504344 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:44:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504333 kshymkiw :
said by Mele20 See Profile :

Of course it WILL affect NORMAL downloading where the download must be or is strongly encouraged to be through Bittorrent. There are quite a few legitimate programs that now either require you to use Bittorrent or strongly advise that you do so. That is how I came to get Bittorrent as I don't do P2P or binary NG downloading. I've already discussed this with TW here as we should not be punished. We are not stealing so what is TW's justification for punishing users who are doing legitimate downloads during "prime time"?
So a question for everyone who claims this is a target at Bit Torrent. How do you identify Bit Torrent Traffic? With the ability to change ports for BT Traffic, how does one purpose that BT Traffic is stopable?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18504333 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 09:42:42 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18503772 ACompromiser : In those TW responses they mention their own news servers but is anyone noticing definite shaping for major usenet providers as well?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18503772 Thu, 14 Jun 2007 06:30:29 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18500472 Mele20 : Of course it WILL affect NORMAL downloading where the download must be or is strongly encouraged to be through Bittorrent. There are quite a few legitimate programs that now either require you to use Bittorrent or strongly advise that you do so. That is how I came to get Bittorrent as I don't do P2P or binary NG downloading. I've already discussed this with TW here as we should not be punished. We are not stealing so what is TW's justification for punishing users who are doing legitimate downloads during "prime time"?
--
"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18500472 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 17:49:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18500007 kshymkiw :
said by Lowtarget See Profile :

Would 'Packet Shaping' effect normal downloading? Sample downloading a game demo from 3dgamers. In about 1-2 hours from now TWC broadband will be installed.
Nope]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18500007 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:27:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499928 Lowtarget : Would 'Packet Shaping' effect normal downloading? Sample downloading a game demo from 3dgamers. In about 1-2 hours from now TWC broadband will be installed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499928 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:15:05 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499754 anon : "date Jun 8, 2007 3:23 AM
subject Re: Newsgroups (KMM5263477C0KM)

Thank you for your response.
..
Unfortunately, we do not guarantee download speeds from the newsgroup server. This is a value added service. Our primary service is to provide you with a high speed connection to the Internet for loading websites.

I apologize for any inconvenience."

Anyone notice the unique little qualifier in this text, "for loading websites." That's a bunch of cr&p. When I ordered my service they offered "internet access", and that's what I ordered -- not "web access".

Watch out. The ISPs pulled the same stunt when they suddenly started limiting access speeds a few years back. Before then, you paid one price and the speed your line was capable of was the speed you got. Then they started limiting access speeds, then some months later you suddenly had "tiered" pricing, having to pay more for higher access speed that you had when you signed your contract with them.

This looks like another unilaterally imposed limit by the ISP to facilitate future additional charges to users to get access to internet capabilities other than the web.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499754 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:47:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499444 djrobx :
quote:
OR their packet shaper is overloaded to the extent that its effectively rate limiting IPs.
That's quite possible.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499444 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:04:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499151 anon : It works fine during the day (just was getting 8000 kbps I expect). It works much slower at night.

However, a week ago it worked fine at night (able to max out).

Hence from my experience, either TWC in NYC severly degraded in a week (i.e. wasn't overloaded a week ago, now it is, they aren't packet shaping but rate limiting IPs, OR their packet shaper is overloaded to the extent that its effectively rate limiting IPs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499151 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:24:22 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499121 swintec :
said by niagara_man1 See Profile :

I thought we had someone post and verify its being deployed to the entire system
The original poster posted a memo, which said nationally. However in the very next post, he stated, that he THINKS: "1) This will eventually cover ALL subscribers in ALL areas of the country." So I do not know if he edited the original "memo" to reflect nationally, forgot he edited it and then said he thinks it will cover all subs in the next post.

kshymkiw See Profile, among other people, public and private, stated it wasnt national, but his reply got buried amongst people explaining over and over how traffic shaping works and how certain areas are starved for bandwidth or not.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499121 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:21:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499083 niagara_man1 : I thought we had someone post and verify its being deployed to the entire system]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499083 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:14:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499055 swintec :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

If your entire connection is slowing, it could be that the system is simply at capacity and there isn't "enough" traffic shaping going on to keep your speeds up.
..or it could be old school problems that we all used to complain about, signal levels..bad splitters, loose connections, etc..etc. Judging by everyones location, it is impossible they are being affected by the traffic shaping going on, in the relatively small area it has been deployed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18499055 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 14:10:11 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498926 dbmaven : That wouldn't be packet shaping.

It would be IP specific bandwidth throttling.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498926 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:53:12 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498843 anon : I see a future where people in America can use no p2p have the slowest most useless connections. While the rest of the world has a free internet with true broadband. And the main reason for this is greed, people who are billionaires are able to bleed every last penny out of the consumers by giving the the worst possible services and charging them the absolute maximum for it. Imagine how crappy American cars (80's anyone?) would be by now if they didn't have Japanese and German competition. I'm surprised the US hasn't banned all imports just so they can rip off there citizens more. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498843 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:39:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498616 ColorBASIC : If your entire connection is slowing, it could be that the system is simply at capacity and there isn't "enough" traffic shaping going on to keep your speeds up.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498616 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:03:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498605 anon : I should append. What I think TWC might be doing is packet shapping all the traffic of high bandwidth users. i.e. if you transfer more than X MB in an hour (or 2, or a day or ....) you get classified at packet level 2, while normal users are a "1". Since "level 1" traffic (not talking ISO model here) is higher priority, its packets move through the router's queue faster.

basically, my experience says its not application based, as all my applications suffer when anyone is suffering, but very much IP based.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498605 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:01:48 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498587 anon : ColorBASIC, my experience tells me you are incorrect.

I'll fully admit to doing a lot of downloads via usenet, however, when my usenet downloads slow down, my entire connection slows down.

Namely. last night I was getting around 50K/s per connection to my usenet server. I was also getting about 50K/s to the http downloads I tried doing from multiple universities, as well as from multiple Akami cached items. It could very well be that NYC is way overloaded, but the packet shaping seems to be affecting everything equally (from my experience) and a week ago I wasn't having this issue.

personally, if they had to packet shape my usenet access during peak times, I would deal with it, the fact that things like HTTP are also getting rate limited is really annoying me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498587 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:59:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498181 ColorBASIC : They're deprioritizing typical high bandwidth applications like usenet because of binary downloading being a common use.

QoS doesn't rely on per month per day traffic demand. It only reacts to instantaneous traffic demands on the network. So TWC is targeting general activities that are sources of high demand like usenet traffic. QoS isn't applied on a 'per subscriber' basis, it's applied across the system.

QoS operates 24/7 deprioritizing whatever packets the network admins want (eg torrents, usenet). Typically these will be types of activities that are bandwidth intensive if even for a relatively short time.

As I've mentioned earlier, whether the customer actually sees the effect of QoS depends on whether or not the network is saturated and nothing else.

A user can have downloaded 500GB in a month, and it doesn't matter to traffic shaping. At that matters is if he's trying to download during a period in which the local cable system is at capacity.

For a simplified example, let's say your local cable system has a 100Mb/s throughput capacity (in reality it's much much higher but I want simple numbers). And at a particular instant you have 5 users doing 10Mb/s each in downloads at the same time. It doesn't matter if those users packets are deprioritized because the system has a 100Mb/s capacity but only a 50Mb/s demand.

Now lets say during a so-called peak traffic time you now have 15 users on at the same time doing 10Mb/s downloads. Now the system is seeing 150Mb in demand while having only a 100Mb/s capacity. The system is saturated and everyone's speeds well be less than the 10Mb advertised rate unless there is a system in place to prioritize the traffic so that the most people possible get their advertised rate.

The solution is either increase the capacity to 150Mb to meet peak demand, which to TWC is cost prohibitive, OR you deprioritize certain packets to that the majority of those 15 users see near full speeds while a few users see degraded speeds.

So while the system is saturated, someone doing a usenet download may see his packets deprioritized (put at the back of the line) to the point he sees 2Mb from his 10Mb connection while web surfers see 10Mb.

Remember web surfing is about idle connections (pages are tiny, and there is a lot of idle time while people read the loaded pages).

This is a very important point as you think about a 10Mb connection. You can support MANY 10Mb web surfers with a single 10Mb connection because the vast majority of the time, none of them are actually placing demand on the network...they're idle reading pages. Conversely a single usenet user doing a binary download saturates a 10Mb connection easily because he's placing a constant 10Mb demand on that 10Mb connection.

So QoS permits TW to deliver full speed to the vast majority of customers at the cost of degrading speeds to a few customers who represent a disproportionate demand on the system.

In any event, you will ONLY see the effects of traffic shaping when the network is saturated (at or near capacity). If your local cable system is like mine and it is never near capacity you will never see the effects of traffic shaping. If you are in a sucky local cable system where it's near saturated all the time, you will see the effects of traffic shaping all the time.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498181 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:49:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498158 grandpinaple : Yes I knew all that I meant whether this is like having a Qos router prioritize http packets going out of your local network except it happens at the node level?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498158 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:45:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498127 kshymkiw :
said by grandpinaple See Profile :

Well I have a question then. Is this packet shaping good for people who don't have Qos routers, such that when you want to surf the web, but your download is saturated or your upload is saturated with acks that your internet browsing will still work very smoothly?
You don't need a QoS Router. TWC ignores your QoS in favor of it's own.

i.e If your router spits out QoS into TWC's network, TWC will ignore it and put their own QoS on it. They also strip their QoS at the modem level.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498127 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:39:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498119 grandpinaple : Well I have a question then. Is this packet shaping good for people who don't have Qos routers, such that when you want to surf the web, but your download is saturated or your upload is saturated with acks that your internet browsing will still work very smoothly?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498119 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:37:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498101 kshymkiw :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

That it was typical traffic shaping (QoS) deployed nationwide against high bandwidth applications like usenet. No specific ports or applications are being throttled like we see in Canada.
Hmmm. TWC already does QoS on their network.

Voice
Commercial Data
Residential Data

Define Usenet? Usenet is only as High Traffic as the user sets it. also define High Traffic, i.e per month, per day, etc..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498101 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:32:47 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498090 ColorBASIC : That it was typical traffic shaping (QoS) deployed nationwide against high bandwidth applications like usenet. No specific ports or applications are being throttled like we see in Canada.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498090 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:30:30 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498068 kshymkiw :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

I was escalated when I was asking about specific ports and ended up talking basically 3 people, a tech, a tech in the background and their manager none of whom seemed befuddled and knew exactly what I was asking and had quick clear answers.

Some of the information they were passing on were specific to my cable system and other information was coming from internal memos about the traffic shaping plan.
So what is the plan you heard about?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18498068 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:28:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18497943 ColorBASIC : I was escalated when I was asking about specific ports and ended up talking basically 3 people, a tech, a tech in the background and their manager none of whom seemed befuddled and knew exactly what I was asking and had quick clear answers.

Some of the information they were passing on were specific to my cable system and other information was coming from internal memos about the traffic shaping plan.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18497943 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:09:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18497915 kshymkiw :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

Facts based on? I'm not doubting it per se, I'm just going by what multiple tier 2 engineers (or whatever you want to call them) at RR have been telling me.
Tier 2 is a good resource. Maybe they know something more than your average CSR at the division.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18497915 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:05:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18496900 DjVaGGo :
said by Cogdis See Profile :

said by DjVaGGo See Profile :

said by StreetSpirit See Profile :

Sigh.. The thought of being stuck on traffic shaped RR isn't very appealing, but then again a good home is more important than a super duper net connection with two kids... But........... :(

David
You can always look into finding something in Astoria...its close to Manhattan..(about 5 minutes away)

No TWC problems..and 10/512 speeds lol
I thought Astoria was TWC also?
It is lol..but for some reason which I wont complain about..seems to be trouble free :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18496900 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 06:32:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18496721 Cogdis :
said by DjVaGGo See Profile :

said by StreetSpirit See Profile :

Sigh.. The thought of being stuck on traffic shaped RR isn't very appealing, but then again a good home is more important than a super duper net connection with two kids... But........... :(

David
You can always look into finding something in Astoria...its close to Manhattan..(about 5 minutes away)

No TWC problems..and 10/512 speeds lol
I thought Astoria was TWC also?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18496721 Wed, 13 Jun 2007 03:13:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495880 grandpinaple : You might be in an RCN area if you move to NYC.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495880 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:58:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495653 DjVaGGo :
said by StreetSpirit See Profile :

Sigh.. The thought of being stuck on traffic shaped RR isn't very appealing, but then again a good home is more important than a super duper net connection with two kids... But........... :(

David
You can always look into finding something in Astoria...its close to Manhattan..(about 5 minutes away)

No TWC problems..and 10/512 speeds lol]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495653 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 22:18:33 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495272 ColorBASIC :
said by swintec See Profile :

said by kshymkiw See Profile :

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

According to them.

Remember, traffic shaping will always be on, but you'll only notice it if your local cable system is saturated AND you are doing something that gets deprioritized like usenet downloads.

Given what I'm seeing from posts I have no doubt that it was a nationwide rollout. This isn't like a speed increase where every market it different in terms of how it will handle the speed. QOS is extremely easy to deploy.
I can tell you I am 100000000000000000000000% sure it hasn't been rolled out Nationwide.

How dare you bring facts into this topic. ;)
Facts based on? I'm not doubting it per se, I'm just going by what multiple tier 2 engineers (or whatever you want to call them) at RR have been telling me.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495272 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:04:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495261 StreetSpirit : Bummer... We're looking at apartments in the city due to my wife's work. I guess this basically makes up my mind for me - if we end up in a TW area.....

I guess the best I can hope for is to find a decent place in the Bronx.. :(

We live in arguably one of the premiere cities of the world, and surely one of the most expensive ones. People dream about living in Manhattan.. If they only saw how lame the broadband offers are...

Can you imagine how many people will be affected nationwide? Heck this is insanity. New York City should immediately revoke their franchise license in Manhattan... And that's really going to happen.. :(

Sigh.. The thought of being stuck on traffic shaped RR isn't very appealing, but then again a good home is more important than a super duper net connection with two kids... But........... :(

David]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495261 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 21:02:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495122 ColorBASIC : This is what is gonna happen; every time someone gets slower than expected speeds they're going to scream 'traffic shaping' or 'capping'.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495122 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:39:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495062 swintec :
said by kshymkiw See Profile :

said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

According to them.

Remember, traffic shaping will always be on, but you'll only notice it if your local cable system is saturated AND you are doing something that gets deprioritized like usenet downloads.

Given what I'm seeing from posts I have no doubt that it was a nationwide rollout. This isn't like a speed increase where every market it different in terms of how it will handle the speed. QOS is extremely easy to deploy.
I can tell you I am 100000000000000000000000% sure it hasn't been rolled out Nationwide.

How dare you bring facts into this topic. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495062 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:27:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495045 Doctor Four : Seeing very minor traffic shaping right now while I'm
downloading from Giganews. Though I'm not absolutely sure
if it is directly related to that. My connection speed is
hovering between 4.6 and 5.6 Mb/S, sometimes going a little
lower, and sometimes hitting 6.0-6.3 Mb/S. It's often done
that during peak periods anyway, and might be heavy traffic
on Giganews rather than TW traffic shaping.

As soon as it gets done (about 12 minutes), I'll try
Shareaza (on G2 only) to get an idea if there are slowdowns
there. Mainly on the u/l side, since I do most of my content
downloading that would be subject to this over Usenet.

Edit: it isn't doing it over p2p, either. I'm still
getting around 50-70 KB/s u/l running Shareaza. So
either there's no traffic shaping here yet, or there
isn't much of an impact on my node right now.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
We are the Hacker Collective: Resistance Is Futile - All Your AACS Keys Will Be Assimilated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18495045 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:25:45 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494997 hayabusa3303 : I just got off the phone with tech support here in this great state of south carolina, :uhh: and within 2 months it will be here and they will be shaping traffic. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494997 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:18:40 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494980 kshymkiw :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

According to them.

Remember, traffic shaping will always be on, but you'll only notice it if your local cable system is saturated AND you are doing something that gets deprioritized like usenet downloads.

Given what I'm seeing from posts I have no doubt that it was a nationwide rollout. This isn't like a speed increase where every market it different in terms of how it will handle the speed. QOS is extremely easy to deploy.
I can tell you I am 100000000000000000000000% sure it hasn't been rolled out Nationwide.

95% of the RR users will never even notice Traffic Shaping occuring. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494980 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:15:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494501 djrobx : As I posted earlier, I am seeing performance problems downloading from Apple on DSLExtreme as well.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494501 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:51:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494293 ColorBASIC : I'm getting slow iTunes (podcast) downloads with Verizon too though. So for me at least it ain't RR.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494293 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:17:56 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494282 Dampier :
said by Cogdis See Profile :

Was this DEFINITELY rolled out nationwide? I called support complaining about slow ITunes downloads. I mentioned that speeds for everything else are normal.

I got up to tier 3 who finally told me to go change my modem and that Road Runner has nothing to do with it. I dont use newsgroups, what else would be affected by this that I can test?
Road Runner's canned reply they are now sending from the national help desk currently only admits to packet shaping two applications - newsgroups and p2p networks. iTunes uses neither, so it's not surprising that they would point you elsewhere on resolving this problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494282 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:16:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494276 Dampier :
said by switchfutguy :

so what package do you have?
I have the "premium" service here in Rochester, delivering 15/1 (ostensibly).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18494276 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:13:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493777 ColorBASIC :
said by Bytezboy See Profile :

So this packet shapiing takes into affect only when it's saturated?
Yes. If you are seeing slow speeds at all times of day it means either your local cable system is saturated at all times of day or it's just a typical slowdown reason like a slow host.

RR is not bit-throttling any application. Traffic shaping is on 24/7 but even deprioritized traffic will arrive at full speed when the cable system isn't running at capacity.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493777 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:48:07 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493764 ColorBASIC : According to them.

Remember, traffic shaping will always be on, but you'll only notice it if your local cable system is saturated AND you are doing something that gets deprioritized like usenet downloads.

Given what I'm seeing from posts I have no doubt that it was a nationwide rollout. This isn't like a speed increase where every market it different in terms of how it will handle the speed. QOS is extremely easy to deploy.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493764 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:46:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493703 swintec :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

The traffic shaping was rolled out nationwide.
You sure about that? ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493703 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 16:34:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493369 Bytezboy : So this packet shapiing takes into affect only when it's saturated?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493369 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:35:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493237 Cogdis : Was this DEFINITELY rolled out nationwide? I called support complaining about slow ITunes downloads. I mentioned that speeds for everything else are normal.

I got up to tier 3 who finally told me to go change my modem and that Road Runner has nothing to do with it. I dont use newsgroups, what else would be affected by this that I can test?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493237 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:13:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493180 anon : Sheik28,

What do you think RR is going to do announce this to the their customer base HELL NO!!! They are going to keep this as quite as possible and that is why my god damned pings have nearly tripled those F*cks...

If they would update there network instead of pulling this $#*t and just letting the little downloading troll's know to hey chill dude, all would be good!!

RR truly suc's they still owe me a call to explain why I had to setup there digital phone service and their technician could not!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18493180 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:00:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18492920 djrobx :
quote:
Are you kidding me you haven't a clue what this will do!!
Avoid the temptation to blame any and all new service problems on traffic shaping. Is there a possibility that you and your buddy are "testing" the same FTP server? Have you tried FTPing to other places? Have you done a speed test to verify that your connections are in fact working properly?

It would be very foolish for TW to inhibit FTP uploads as that's THE standard mechanism to upload files to websites or work servers. The cliche advertising bullet, "uploadng family pictures and videos to personnal websites" would be inhibited by such a block, and I would think they'd see massive backlash from users and telecommuters who pay Premium prices to have good upload ability.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18492920 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:10:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18492300 anon : Are you kidding me you haven't a clue what this will do!! Not only are the baiting and switching on us they will apply this to competing services.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18492300 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:33:01 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491823 ColorBASIC : Port 21 is only the command port (the port the host is listing to for incoming requests). The data will be on a different port. Which port this will be is either sent with the request or returned by the server (depending on whether your using active or passive mode). Point being they can't port throttle FTP because they don't know what port is gonna be used for the actual xfer.

They'll control FTP speed through the QOS they've already set up, but you will only see the effects of the QOS on FTP uploads if the upload bandwidth of your local cable system is saturated.

--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491823 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:18:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491783 ColorBASIC :
said by switchfutguy :

I have a friend that lives about two blocks from my house who also has rr and he has the same problem with his ftp. So if you are saying it's not a cap on that port what would it be?
General traffic, slow host, bad FTP client configuration. There could be many causes for slow FTP that isn't port throttling. Have your buddy set up an FTP server and see if if there is a wildly different speed.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491783 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:09:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491759 ColorBASIC : I don't work for RR but I was told this by 2, what I would call tier 2 support (people you get escalated to when the script readers don't know the answer to something) and their department manager who I was asking about port throttling. Their story was all the same...general QOS that t'was rolled out nationwide June 6th. No port throttling.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491759 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:05:29 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491741 anon : I have a friend that lives about two blocks from my house who also has rr and he has the same problem with his ftp. So if you are saying it's not a cap on that port what would it be?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491741 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:01:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491669 anon : so how do you know when they rolled it out and that it was a nationwide rollout? do you work for rr?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491669 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:46:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491655 ColorBASIC : 15/2

RR traffic shaping is typical traffic shaping. You will only see the effects of it if your local cable system is saturated.

If you see a "cap" like behavior all day, it's something else...not traffic shaping.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491655 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:44:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491654 anon : so what package do you have?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491654 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:43:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491609 ColorBASIC : Actually they started about a week ago on the 6th. The traffic shaping was rolled out nationwide.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491609 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:35:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491596 anon : it could be that you haven't had the qos rollout in your area yet...this just happened in the past 48hrs.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18491596 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:33:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490914 ColorBASIC :
said by switchfutguy :

so anyways...it looks to me that they've capped port 21 (which ftp runs over) to a max of 10k 24/7 seeing as it's almost 3am and that wouldn't be a "peak time".
They aren't capping port 21 24/7. I have no problems reaching 2Mb up over port 21.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490914 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:40:52 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490820 anon : I called 5 times ... the first 4 times rr reps didnt admit the bandwidth shaping.. finally I got a tech support agent who investigated the issue and did admit that this is goin on ...

of course I switch providers instantly ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490820 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:45:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490574 Kupotek :
said by hobgoblin See Profile :

If your speeds have degraded that much 24/7 I would be starting troubleshooting elsewhere. I don't believe that it has anything to do with the original topic.

Hob
I might reinstall Windows and see if that helps it has been awhile, 2 years about... I'll let you know what the results are.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490574 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:20:52 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490532 anon : so anyways...it looks to me that they've capped port 21 (which ftp runs over) to a max of 10k 24/7 seeing as it's almost 3am and that wouldn't be a "peak time".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490532 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:42:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490520 anon : in the past 24hrs i have gone from a ftp upload at about 110-120k a second (much lower than advertised) to a cap of 10k a second over ftp traffic. When I talked to tech support to see about this they told me that they had new policies in place and that ftp was used by kazza for downloading stuff. I told them that I manage websites via ftp and he said something about getting the business package. I was pretty happy about that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18490520 Tue, 12 Jun 2007 02:32:15 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489562 ColorBASIC : Speaking of usenet traffic...it's pretty "prime time" right now being about 7:30PM PST and I'm downloading from the XBOX 360 group on a few RR servers at 14.5 megabits per second; damn good if you ask me.

Go figure...usenet is faster for me that it has ever been.

But I'm in a cable system that hasn't seen any slowdowns indicating that our cable system isn't seeing huge throughput demands by customers, even during prime time.

So I'm sticking to my theory that this traffic shaping is typical traffic shaping and not application throttling like we see in some Canadian providers. Meaning while we see some Canadian providers for example limiting torrent speeds at all times of the day, it appears to me anyway that Time Warner's traffic shaping is only 'seen' by users when the demands on the local cable system is higher than the cable system can deliver (eg 150Mb in demand with a 100Mb capacity).
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489562 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:33:01 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489297 djrobx :
quote:
Again, they're not going to spend top bucks to make sure that everyone gets Usenet access as fast as their pipe can fill. They're not in the Usenet business. They're in the Internet access business.
Right. If TW *really* hated usenet traffic and saw it as evil, I don't think they'd be including free "unlimited" newshosting service. Comcast gave us a pathetic 1gb giganews account. My previous DSL Provider, DSLExtreme, offered 64kbs unlimited Supernews usenet and I thought that was pretty good! AT&T offers no binary usenet service to speak of.

Even if RR's included newsgroup service throttles down at peak times this still beats the hell out of what I had before. I see shaping, if implemented correctly (as ColorBASIC theorizes), as a very workable compromise and better than what just about every other cable company seems to be doing in terms of dealing with heavy users.

--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489297 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:43:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489076 hobgoblin :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

All I know is last week I could download at 1.5 mb/s now I can't get over 500 kb/s no matter what. That's bad service, especially since I'm paying for a 15/2 line which means I should be able at times to get 1.5mb/s download, but with the current system not only with this never happen but if i even come close I'll get flagged for using too much bandwidth? There's something seriously wrong with this business practice.
If your speeds have degraded that much 24/7 I would be starting troubleshooting elsewhere. I don't believe that it has anything to do with the original topic.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489076 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:10:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489041 whistlinduck : Yeah - we get that. You've put it in almost every reply in this thread.

You're paying for an internet connection with speeds "UP TO" 15/2. No guarantees. It's a "best effort" service. You want a dedicated 15/2? Good luck ! Got $3-400/month for a dedicated circuit - and a couple of grand up front for the connection setup?

TW/RR has decided that this is the best way for them to manage their bandwidth for ALL customers. As I said before - I don't particularly agree with the methodology - it seems too punitive and targets specific types of traffic.

Again - would you prefer this method of traffic shaping - where you can still do what you did before - just taking longer to finish - or the OOL magic out-of-blue cap where everything you do is slowed to dial-up speeds?

Oh - and you can't say "neither". ;)

FIOS ain't all its cracked up to be either. As others have noted - wait till they build up their subscriber base.
Check this as posted in another thread:
»For those who think FIOS......]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489041 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:06:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489008 jmccorm : Even if they outsource, they're likely to have an SLA or a level committment with their Usenet provider.

Again, they're not going to spend top bucks to make sure that everyone gets Usenet access as fast as their pipe can fill. They're not in the Usenet business. They're in the Internet access business.

They're going to spend bucks on a somewhat reasonable amount of service. Which is what most ISPs do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18489008 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:02:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488852 Kupotek : All I know is last week I could download at 1.5 mb/s now I can't get over 500 kb/s no matter what. That's bad service, especially since I'm paying for a 15/2 line which means I should be able at times to get 1.5mb/s download, but with the current system not only with this never happen but if i even come close I'll get flagged for using too much bandwidth? There's something seriously wrong with this business practice.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488852 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:40:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488819 whistlinduck :
said by niagara_man1 See Profile :

as we TWC customers complain about this new wave of crap.
Other companys (Optimum Online Boost) offers 30 megs down and 5 megs upload.
OOL Boost would be roughly equivalent to Extreme/Premium/Premiere or whatever they call the 'top' tier in your neck of the woods. It costs $25 or so extra on top of the regular fees.
They can afford to do this because they have almost a total fiber optic backbone that can handle the loads (in most places - although there are oversubscribed nodes which suffer the same sorts of problems found on RR). It's a smaller service area - mostly Long Island, most of Northern New Jersey, Westchester (NY) county, the Bronx (NY) and sections of other NY counties and bits of Connecticut. It's damn tiny compared to TW/RR from a subscriber size perspective.

Standard OOL is 15/2 - and is subject to capping. Check the OOL forum - they're on the 6th or 7th "Capping Discussion" thread. If you're 'caught' doing too much uploading - BAM! - with absolutely NO WARNING - you find your upload limited to something like 150k, and your download to about 2m (or less).

So - which would you prefer?? Proactive packet shaping - or mysterious/unannounced caps that effect everything you do ??

"I pay for it - I can use it any way I want !" :uhh:
Not exactly. You don't have the right to impact everybody else on your node because you're doing P2P 24x7. Since cable is a shared bandwidth topology, they have the responsibility to maintain reasonable service levels for everyone.

Having said that - I think they're barking up the wrong tree - it's the uploads that are the issue - not the downloads.
What they're doing here doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488819 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:34:56 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488815 swintec :
said by jmccorm See Profile :

RE: Usenet

I just wanted to point out that ISPs who have Usenet servers that are weaker than their pipes isn't anything new.

They're not saying that they're targeting your Usenet service particularly (although they may do that). They're saying that their Usenet servers are a little on the weak side and probably won't push you enough traffic to fill your pipe.
Being as they outsource to Newshosting, I do not believe that is the case.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488815 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:33:57 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488789 jmccorm : RE: Usenet

I just wanted to point out that ISPs who have Usenet servers that are weaker than their pipes isn't anything new.

They're not saying that they're targeting your Usenet service particularly (although they may do that). They're saying that their Usenet servers are a little on the weak side and probably won't push you enough traffic to fill your pipe.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488789 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:29:51 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488588 grandpinaple : CrapRunner is under Time Warner which has a stake in the entertainment industry. I'm surprised they offer usenet service muchless took this long to throttle it. Something about them throttling specifically usenet seems off in a legal sense. At the very least I find it amusing that a telco idea (packet preference) was first implemented by a cableco when everyone was screaming about how glorious the cablecos are versus the telco.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488588 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:57:26 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488545 rcdailey :
said by Rook008 See Profile :

I was under the impression that upload was not "shaped" in any way.
That's the impression I had, also. However, setting up a server for P2P implies that files will be uploaded from your system whenever a remote system downloads those files from you. That's how it works. So, why isn't TimeWarner concerned with that aspect of P2P? Maybe because they already cap that at 2Mb for the 15/2 service? They don't want anyone setting up servers in any case based on the TOS, but if they enforced the rule, they'd have to terminate a lot of customers and thereby lose the revenue. Perhaps shaping downloads is less intrusive or draconian, but I wonder?
--
No one is always right or always wrong, unfortunately.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488545 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:51:10 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488525 Kupotek :
said by hobgoblin See Profile :
So were you using Newsgroups or P2p to move these photo's around the world?

Hob
Why should it matter? Basically, Time Warner is taking it up on themselves to cap our speeds by a HUGE amount for whichever programs they wish, making it impossible for us to get what we pay for.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488525 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:48:16 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488450 Rook008 : I was under the impression that upload was not "shaped" in any way. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488450 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:34:35 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488396 rcdailey :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

(edited)
My family is spread out around the world and we do send family videos, photos, and more across the world. I was using my TW/RR service to make this very easy... the funny thing is now it's actually easier for me to find another way to transfer the files, because RR simply has screwed the pooch and has declared themselves no longer a hi-speed internet company, but rather a hi-speed email and browse the web company.

I wonder how or if this affects those who use a web service to share photos? You still have to upload files to the service, even though you may not have to set up a server on your own system. I don't use any P2P and don't do binary downloads from newsgroups, but plenty of people do.
--
No one is always right or always wrong, unfortunately.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488396 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:22:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488365 rcdailey :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

I got rid of it, and it didn't help.
NIS 2007 was pretty nice actually.
Too bad about that. I understand that NIS 2007 is more like an enterprise solution than a single user suite, which may be a good thing for anyone with a network at home.
--
No one is always right or always wrong, unfortunately.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488365 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:17:56 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488248 hobgoblin :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

My family is spread out around the world and we do send family videos, photos, and more across the world. I was using my TW/RR service to make this very easy.

So were you using Newsgroups or P2p to move these photo's around the world?

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488248 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:53:39 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488041 Kupotek : I'm paying for 15mb/2mb (1.5mb down/200kbup) and getting 400kb/s down that's ridiculous... that's 2x slower than premium BEFORE Turbo "upgrades"
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488041 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:12:24 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488017 Kupotek : From: »www.timewarnercable.com/cincinna···orr.html

"# No speed bumps in sight when downloading large files and software updates
# Enhanced speed gives you the edge you need to dominate online games
# Multimedia mastery �€“ blaze through video and music downloads "

Seems shaping is all about invalidating their own selling point. Isn't that called false advertising?

"Road Runner reserves the right to discontinue any feature or offer at any time."

Looks like they decided to discontinue pretty much... everything they advertise.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18488017 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:07:40 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487969 anon : WTF? I pay for high speed from TWC so I can pay to download movies from www.bittorrent.com. Are they gonna shape that too? That is lame beyond words.

-z]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487969 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:57:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487929 Kupotek : Quote from RR employee: "We are / have implementing a network management policy that may be responsible for slowing down certain type of downloading to reduce network stress and improve quality of access for the bulk of our users."

If they can't handle up to 15mb/s or even half that or a quarter that then they simply shouldn't advertise it.

If I pay $60 a month for 15mb/s with the possibility of hitting 1.5 mb/s but they are mad at me for trying to hit that, I call fraud on that company. They have put into place restrictions to be sure I can never hit not only the cap I'm paying for, but half that, and it's not only at peak hours it's all the time. Some will lie to you and tell you it's on only during peak hours, but experience will show its on 24/7.

This is unacceptable.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487929 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:52:49 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487803 Kupotek : Yeah it really sucks paying for 1.5mb/s speeds and only getting 200 kb/s

Big woop i can browse the internet fast, I might as well bail and get the same speed from DSL for $24 a month.

Seriously, you would think Time Warner wouldn't be this stupid. They're going to piss off a huge amount of people.

My family is spread out around the world and we do send family videos, photos, and more across the world. I was using my TW/RR service to make this very easy... the funny thing is now it's actually easier for me to find another way to transfer the files, because RR simply has screwed the pooch and has declared themselves no longer a hi-speed internet company, but rather a hi-speed email and browse the web company.

Time Warner apparently forced to commit suppuku by the RIAA, at least the guy I talked to at TW blamed it on them.

--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487803 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:30:11 EDT Re: Not the case http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487790 drpaladin : Sorry, but that's bull.

its not during peak usage times only. Its 24/7.

I've been limited to 7.9kbp/s per torrent, regardless of the time, since Sunday. Also, here's a transcript from my 2 chat conversation with TWCNYC:

StephenA: Yes, Roadrunner has implemented a bandwith limit policy to better manage our network.
[ME]: in other words, you're shaping traffic
[ME]: what's affected?
[ME]: Is my VOIP service going to cr*p out as well?
StephenA: No, this should only affect our newsgroups and any peer-to-peer file sharing software.

Saeed Z: That is correct.
[ME]: So, back to my question
[ME]: Is the policy in effect 24 hours per day
[ME]: Or, only during speific hours
Saeed Z: Currently, Yes.
Saeed Z: Its 24 hours/day

So, unless you are ok w/dial d/l speeds for torrents and newsgroups, suggest you bail. I am.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487790 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:26:58 EDT Re: msg deleted http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487782 Anonymous_ :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

I called Time Warner and they gave me this line that this is their way of stopping/preventing piracy.

it will not last for long cause there will be a way to beat it
--
Global warming did not eat my homework.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487782 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:25:55 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487704 Kupotek : I got rid of it, and it didn't help.
NIS 2007 was pretty nice actually.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487704 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:12:17 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487695 rcdailey :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

The only thing I changed was I installed Norton Internet Security 2007, and I checked port forwarding and it seems a go, so I don't think this is stopping incoming connections. So it must be shaping if it isn't this.
Back when I had NIS 2003, I found that the firewall imposed a large penalty on download speed, which is why I dumped it. Have they fixed this in 2007?
--
No one is always right or always wrong, unfortunately.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487695 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:10:14 EDT Re: msg deleted http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487326 Kupotek : I called Time Warner and they gave me this line that this is their way of stopping/preventing piracy.

--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487326 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:58:09 EDT Re: msg deleted http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487309 swintec :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

Understand your speed test will max out, while your p2p, usenet internet useage will be greatly lowered in performance. This is simply unbelievable.
Keep in mind, this happens, for the time being anyways, during peak usage times only. It seems this thread has gone to the point of thinking it is happening all the time day and night.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487309 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:54:47 EDT Re: msg deleted http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487298 Kupotek : It's basically going to be sure you get bandwidth where you don't need it, and take it from you where you do.

Might as well lower my package to a less costly one since I'm basically paying for a slower connection now. It all amounts to that anyway since where I really need the bandwidth I can't have it.

It's like banking these days. They have protection as long as you don't need it, and bandwidth oh ya you can pay to download up to 1.5mb/s but if you start to get close to that we won't let you .

--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487298 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:52:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487220 Cogdis : I dont understand, is the traffic shaping system perfect? or is this thing gonna slow down the wrong packets once in a while?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18487220 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:40:51 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486957 cramer :
said by SyphonBW See Profile :

Maybe SSL cant be seen by roadrunner or can it?
They may not be able to see what's in those packets, but they most certainly can tell where they're going. Giganews, et. al. have pretty well known address ranges.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486957 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:57:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486944 Kupotek : Seriously, cos without competition they can pull a stunt like this. I just don't see how they can get away with this.

Premier Service: 8 mb/768k and i could cap at 800 kb/s
Turbo Service: 15mb/xx and i could cap at 1.6 mb/s

After Shaping: 500 kb/s cap

All that's changed is the name
The service has gone down in performance.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486944 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:55:28 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486928 rec9140 :
said by Mele20 See Profile :
It's nice you have the luxury of moving to FIOS. We will probably never see FIOS in my lifetime in Hawaii. Turbo here is 8000/512. So, I can't muster much sympathy for people like you.


X-GTE Hawaii was sold to Fairpoint or something as I recall, so your not likely to see FIOS any way.

This is just a prime example of why multiple networks need to be in EACH AND EVERY AREA. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486928 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:52:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486892 anon : My roadrunner is fine. 12-13mbit down, 2mbit up.

No problems with newsgroups or torrents.

As stated earlier in this thread, this must be effecting high traffic areas only.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486892 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:47:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486853 Kupotek : The only thing I changed was I installed Norton Internet Security 2007, and I checked port forwarding and it seems a go, so I don't think this is stopping incoming connections. So it must be shaping if it isn't this.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486853 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:41:18 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486828 ssault : It seems packet shaping has been laid off here in this part of Maine. I've been able to run full 5mbps (all they give me for bandwith here) newsgroups 24/7. Weird...I was getting .5-1mbps 24/7 on newsgroups.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486828 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:38:01 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486714 nemin : you are experiencing slow speeds, but what has that got to do with "packet shaping"? No such thing. Your slow speeds are understandable, but what I don't understand is where the hell did this story come from? ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486714 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:20:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486711 hobgoblin :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

All tests were down on an OC3 line.
Also the shaping is not just for peak hours but 24/7
So you were downloading from newsgroups and P2p down an OC3.

Ok...what does a speed test show?
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486711 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:19:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486688 Kupotek : We are experiencing the shaping that's why we're upset. Hell from the same line I've tested pre shaping and post.

Pre shaping Turbo I was getting 1.5mb/s
On Premier I was getting 800 kb/s
Now I'm getting 500kb/s max

Looks like Turbo could've been great but now it's worse than Premier, this isn't an upgrade it's a downgrade, that's why I'm upset.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486688 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:15:47 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486672 nemin : All this concern and no one can povide the original article that TW posted? Stange, and funny too. look at all of the people caught up in this now and no one can provide a valid link to the TW post. Pathetic!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486672 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:13:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486627 Kupotek : All tests were down on an OC3 line.
Also the shaping is not just for peak hours but 24/7]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486627 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:07:42 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486600 hobgoblin :
said by Kupotek See Profile :

Like I said, if there were options in Cleveland Ohio, I'd gladly drop TW like a bad memory.

Premier package rated at 8mb/768k I was getting 800 kb/s down.
Turbo package same price rated at 15mb/? I'm getting 500 kb/s down. This is unacceptable, especially after I was getting 1.5mb/s down for a week before packet shaping.
Where are you measuring your speed?
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486600 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 14:01:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486563 Kupotek : Like I said, if there were options in Cleveland Ohio, I'd gladly drop TW like a bad memory.

Premier package rated at 8mb/768k I was getting 800 kb/s down.
Turbo package same price rated at 15mb/? I'm getting 500 kb/s down. This is unacceptable, especially after I was getting 1.5mb/s down for a week before packet shaping.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486563 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:53:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486442 niagara_man1 : as we TWC customers complain about this new wave of crap.
Other companys (Optimum Online Boost) offers 30 megs down and 5 megs upload. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486442 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:34:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486369 Kupotek : I was pretty amazed when Time Warner upped my internet package from 8mb/768k to 15mb/2mb... heck it's not only the same price, but they didn't even tell me lol.

Premier became Turbo but it's still the same package. I've been waiting for them to get with the Extreme package scene for several years now and this just made me a very happy customer.

Until I found out about packet shaping which actually slowed my speeds down considerably.

Amazing. Time Warner upgrades the service so it's the same price, and they tell you bigger numbers, but the result is actually much slower speeds.

Looks like they can now sell you a glass of soda and just fill it to whatever they want to these days.

Packet Shaping doesn't seem like a kosher concept that's for damn sure. I go from 1.5mb/s to 500 and we call it packet shaping so it's okay? This ain't right one bit!

After years of selling their service priced according to a claimed maximum speed (which nobody ever actually gets), now they are going to penalize people who use a lot of bandwidth, even though they still NEVER can get close to the bandwidth they are paying for. It is time to tell everyone you know who uses AOL-Time -Warner products to just drop them.

Don't think for a second that Time Warner's backbone, ATDN can't handle the traffic. It can. They're just cheap and upset that people are using what they pay for. Their philosophy of overselling their local networks in hope of a few pennies more has caught up with them...because more and more people have discovered BitTorrent and YouTube and Joost and Skype and VOIP and newsgroups and on and on.

I'm amazed they can even get away with this. If I had options I'd jump ship today.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18486369 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:23:10 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485941 ColorBASIC : The thing is it can only be downloading a single 1GB file via usenet and get caught up in traffic shaping.

IOW, a single user's "excessive" activity has nothing to do with whether or not he/she will see traffic shaping.

It's specific TYPES of activities (eg usenet) regardless of how much they're done that will be subject to the traffic shaping.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485941 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:53:28 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485920 anon : After reading the AUP (and figuring out to remove the trailing colon from the original link), I gave them some feedback:

Define the terms "excessive bandwidth" and "enterprise purpose". How am I supposed to know what activity matches either of those terms by reading the AUP text? Is there an official cap on throughput or bytes transferred over some specific period? Is hosting a personal webpage on a web server in my home considered an anterprise purpose?

How can I be sure that I am in compliance with the terms of the AUP without an understanding of these terms?
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485920 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:49:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485737 Kupotek : My connection was 1.5mb/s for about a week, and now is 1/3 what i was getting PRIOR to their "stealth upgrades" to Turbo. Color me one unhappy customer. If I had options in my area I would jump ship TODAY.
--
»www.kittysafe.net
My Home on the Web]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485737 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:02:29 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485736 ColorBASIC : Yeah...likely straighttotrashcan@rr.com or likewegiveacrap@rr.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485736 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:01:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485732 niagara_man1 : Does anyone have general email addys to complain to TW?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485732 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:00:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485478 Doctor Four : Over 50,000 views of this topic, and it has gotten on
both Slashdot and Digg, as well as the BBR front page
twice.

Judging from the sheer volume of complaints being seen
on this, traffic shaping could backfire on TWC in the
form of increased complaints to their own tech support
(I'd hate to be in their position right about now!), and
to outside agencies/companies like the BBB and so on, loss
of customers to DSL and where Verizon offers it, FIOS. And
if it really gets extreme, there could be a class action
lawsuit - there is already talk of that.

Yet oddly enough, some RR users aren't seeing any
traffic shaping at all on Usenet or p2p, even during
peak hours, myself included.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
We are the Hacker Collective: Resistance Is Futile - All Your AACS Keys Will Be Assimilated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485478 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:58:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485022 Mele20 : It's nice you have the luxury of moving to FIOS. We will probably never see FIOS in my lifetime in Hawaii. Turbo here is 8000/512. So, I can't muster much sympathy for people like you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18485022 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:20:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484992 rec9140 :
said by Pure See Profile :
FIOS must be the answer. It fixes everyones woes. Shame so many do not do research into how most cable systems are setup through HFC networks. The (FTTH)fiber to home must be answer for everything. Typically, cable has been Fiber to the Node for a while, and from there to the homes is Coax.
If having problems with speeds and packet loss as bad as seen in some speed test results, something is going on locally more commonly.

The packet shaping is nowhere near as bad as many posts are trying to make it be.
ColorBASIC - has explained things nicely in previous posts.

The FIOS fix may be great for now, but what will happen as time goes on and more people get on FIOS networks. Traffic is traffic.....


I, personally, am aware of what H F C is and how it works.......The point is.....

RR has added packet shaping to its network on UseNet and P2P, both are big uses for myself and others.

This is UNACCEPTABLE, period. Doesn't matter what its for, why, its not what I signed up for, and its not acceptable.

When a better service WITHOUT packet shaping arrives I will be going to that. (NOTE: Again, DSL and other choices are not available to my area, and moving is > /dev/null )

FIOS at this time doesn't have this adulteration of the service. Yes, its the possibility they may add it too, and then I will look for other connections.

Till then, the majority here, FIOS any other connections that are not adulterated are the solution. Hit'em where it hurts $$$$, and I will just as soon as the Fios fiber gets to me.

RR has been working this up for a while, as I noticed issues with P2P a while ago, a simple fix, correctd it, and just kept a mental note about it. This explains the source of the problem, which I had a hunch on any way.

TWC/BH RR was doing things right. This shows their network can not handle the speeds they are dolling out and that Fios is having a major impact on their business in trying to keep up and keep customers.

All ISP's need to set the speeds to what they REALLY CAN OFFER and STAY OUT OF THE WAY of the CONNECTION. I want a clean pipe to the net, and thats it. I don't use any of RR's services like email, news, or any thing else. I use 3rd party NNTP, my own outside hosted domains for email both POP3 and SMTP, and I run my own local SMTP server that sends my mail direct from my network to the receipents ISP.

Just get out of my way, and provide me a connection.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484992 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 06:56:47 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484839 Mele20 : I just spoke to tier 3 because my speed dropped drastically again tonight. I did ask about packet shaping and this tier 3 person had no idea what I was talking about. She had heard nothing about it and was quite puzzled.

edit: I meant my speed as shown by a speed test using my ISP's test and as evidenced by pings (using Ping Plotter Pro) to local-server soared from average of 15ms to more than 90ms and websites showed pings over 200ms. I didn't mean that my speed for downloading P2P or stuff from NG's dropped. I don't do that sort of thing other than using bittorrent very occasionally for an application download like 3DMark. The reason I asked tier 3 about packet shaping was because I figure it would help my speed drop every night during prime time but tier 3 had no idea what I was talking about so it hasn't reached Hawaii.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484839 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 03:46:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484823 Anonymous_ : Any WAYS this is a waste of time cause with torrent there will be an NEW encryption scheme that will bypass it

and will be out soon
in a few weeks

--
Global warming did not eat my homework.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484823 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 03:27:56 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484796 anon : I'd be incredibly surprised if the area where I live in houston needed the shaping since any given time of day or night I can get max downstream as long as the server I'm connected to has a big enough pipe. It appears that no matter what the time, our RR news servers are throttled bigtime. Last time I checked the throughput was a couple months ago, but I seem to remember getting around 500kbyte/sec. Right this second I'm getting 120-150 kbyte/sec. Yet, if I download something via http it comes in close to full speed for the rest of my approx 5mbit capacity... Am I crazy? I didn't think traffic-shaping via packet inspection would affect me unless my network node was getting over capacity. Is there a bottleneck somewhere further up the line from me? oh well, for what it's worth, Here in suburbia of Houston, the news speed is down. I don't use p2p so I can't test that, but http downloads seem fine.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484796 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 03:02:30 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484589 Dominator8 : See the thing is, I have been with RR since the begin. I was one of the first to sign up where I live. I remember plugging it in and being blown away by how much faster it was then my 56k. Then as the years progressed it got even faster. Eventually though, it all went to hell with constant outages and poor speeds. A few months ago they decided that after years of having costumers from my area complain they would fix it. So now it works fairly well but I'm still extremely disappointed with how I as a customer was treated. From getting no help when I called them, to generally bad service coupled with higher prices for less. I've been waiting for another company to come in. Before Fios, I was going to switch to Comcast but then I heard that had problems too. I'm sure Fios will be great for the first year or two but thats all I really need. After a couple of years, there will be higher tiers or new services which are better. Then I will upgrade again. So yes, at least for now, FIOS is my answer to everything.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484589 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 01:28:29 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484484 Bytezboy : Could this be the reason why downloading from newsgroup ( newshosting ) is less than 1mbit/sec ? :mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484484 Mon, 11 Jun 2007 00:45:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484290 Cogdis : Because Fios is now better than TWC in every respect.

I do get better latency with TWC than on my girlfriend's fios connection, but since they're gonna throttle me anyway, whats the point?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484290 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:59:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484251 Mele20 :
said by Dampier See Profile :

said by swintec See Profile :

EDIT-- I looked on the help pages, where are you seeing this posted, because I do not see it. :(
The link on their generic news release doesn't work for me either... I didn't bother checking it because it points to the AUP. The link for that is:

»help.rr.com/HMSFaqs/e_rr_aup.asp···Policies

Also read: »help.rr.com/HMSFaqs/e_network_perf.aspx

The official confirmation for the packet shaping came in an e-mail. Anyone should be able to get a similar response by using the contact us help tool on the rr.com website. I recommend selecting Newsgroups from the drop down box and then complaining that your speeds have dropped and that the level three desk has information about packet shaping. That should elicit a reply from them in a few hours containing the pre-written new packet shaping policy.

You can also kill a few hours of your life by phone to get the same information, as soon as you get escalated to the level 3 support desk.
Selecting Newsgroups from the drop down box elicits a form to report abuse only. That goes into a black hole. So, that is not the way to get a reply at least for Hawaii RR users. There is nothing in the Newsgroups TOS for Hawaii about packet shaping. As for the general TOS that I thought I was bound to, I can't find it anywhere. I can't find any general TOS for Hawaii RR now. I see the AUP which I had never seen before and never agreed to. The TOS I agreed to appears to no longer exist but we were never informed of that....at least I never got an email or notice of new Terms of Service with my monthly bill, etc. Of course, we were not informed either that we can no longer access our accounts via the Our Town page. I had to search all over for how to do that now.

I guess I will have to call tier 3. Generally, we get through very fast now to tier 3 and can call directly (don't need a ticket from National Help Desk). Tonight being Sunday though with tomorrow being a state holiday, I probably can't get through quickly.
--
"If you want to do DRM on a PC then you need to treat the user as the enemy." Ross Anderson in "`Trusted Computing' Frequently Asked Questions"

»www.msfirefox.com/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484251 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:52:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484189 anon : well, i have had no official confimation mail personally, but we JUST signed up for a 7mbit line here in austin. woke up today and things were running way slow. cycled modem, ready light kept going off all day. finally when it came back up, we are totally throttled down, not just on something like peer to peer or audio/video, but everything.

we normally got around 8mbit here since we live directly across the street from time warner.

as of now, we are getting 0.3 mbit, which is below the legal speed we are required to get (i called, i asked). the tech support on the phone said they were changing the network when i asked him about packet shaping, so there is more to this than smoke. thats for sure. he told me that rr reserved the right to change features, and that i was the first to call today. i highly doubt it. all i can say is 'welcome to court litigation rr.com'. 7mbit +, down to below 0.3mbit. i can upload faster than i can download now, about 40KB/sec is tops. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484189 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:42:48 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484146 hobgoblin :
said by Cogdis See Profile :

That's what I'll be doing (fios will be active soon), and I'll send them an email to be sure they know why they're losing customers...
Because of Fios?

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484146 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:33:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484134 Cogdis :
said by cyberglobe See Profile :

Switch to DSL or Wifi then. Hurt them where it hurts the most... their pocketbooks to show them that you do not like what they are doing.
That's what I'll be doing (fios will be active soon), and I'll send them an email to be sure they know why they're losing customers...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484134 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:31:30 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484127 Cogdis : Or like a butcher giving you packets of steak really slow, or losing steak packets all together :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484127 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:29:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484110 cyberglobe : Switch to DSL or Wifi then. Hurt them where it hurts the most... their pocketbooks to show them that you do not like what they are doing.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18484110 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:26:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483970 anon : TimeWanker/Roadrunner has been bad for a long time. They just got around to admitting it! I started with 6000/768 and upgrade to 8000. No real change! So I went back to 6000/768. Every afternoon I go down to as low as 20 KBytes from about 60 KBytes. If I P2P I lose the internet connection completely. I reset the connection but can't receive incoming connections P2P. Yes FIOS FTTP is the answer. I hope to be moving to an area served by Verizon and would love to get a 50 Meg connection. I would pay just to thumb my nose at TimeWanker.
Definitely false advertising and fraud. It's like paying for a pound of steak and having the butcher put a half pound of hamburger on the scale and push his thumb down on the scale til it reads one pound. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483970 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:56:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483919 Doctor Four : It sounds like, based on ColorBASIC See Profile's explanation,
that I probably won't see traffic shaping all that much
on my neighborhood's node. I almost never see a big
slowdown in Usenet or web traffic during peak hours here,
which would indicate there is still a fair amount of unused
capacity. I suspect it is because AT&T has UVerse here, (they
have one of their ugly gray boxes a few blocks down from me)
and you probably can get 6000/1000 for less than the standard
offering from TWC.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
We are the Hacker Collective: Resistance Is Futile - All Your AACS Keys Will Be Assimilated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483919 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:46:05 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483829 Pure : FIOS must be the answer. It fixes everyones woes. Shame so many do not do research into how most cable systems are setup through HFC networks. The (FTTH)fiber to home must be answer for everything. Typically, cable has been Fiber to the Node for a while, and from there to the homes is Coax.
If having problems with speeds and packet loss as bad as seen in some speed test results, something is going on locally more commonly.

The packet shaping is nowhere near as bad as many posts are trying to make it be.
ColorBASIC - has explained things nicely in previous posts.

The FIOS fix may be great for now, but what will happen as time goes on and more people get on FIOS networks. Traffic is traffic and someone winds up paying for various bandwith and such. They will probably resort to such means as needed just as well. Just give it time.
For now they are sucking in all the customers they can in various tactics from pricing and advertisement.
This is not saying that I wouldn't try FIOS, but it is not the holy grail to everything.
I have 10/1 and doing fairly well, and through coax of all things.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483829 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:31:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483565 Dominator8 : It is really funny that I should read this now. Just last night I was using Azureus to download a file. It was legal of course, the World in Conflict beta actually. It seemed to be going slower than usual and while I was downloading the files, my internet seemed to get slower. I couldn't surf the web without waiting a over 20 seconds per page. I actually said to myself, it almost seems like my connection is being throttled or shaped. Well I guess I was right. I am deeply saddened by this. Oh well, at least I'm moving soon to a Verizon Fios controlled area.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483565 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:50:51 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483432 anon : Hmm, is your node over loaded or something? I am down in West Columbia, SC and I get 8 Mbps down and 512 Kbps up almost all day long. The only thing I have noticed is some slow down on the standard Usenet port. However, changing ports fixed that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483432 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:22:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483425 anon : They can add this crap but they cannot add power boost, what a bunch of fa* this company is , hurry up fios :mad:.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483425 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:21:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483359 DBman190 : What about earthlink or (if in NYC) NyConnect? Are they shaped?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483359 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 21:06:53 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483142 rec9140 :
said by swintec See Profile :
As far as I have heard/know, exclusitivity deals are no longer put into cable franchise deals. Keep in mind, when I say other cable companies can freely come in, they would have to put up .....


When I was on the local crapble board... the franchise came up for renewal, I wanted ALL clauses that BARRED other comapanies coming and BUILDING AN ADDITIONAL NETWORK to be removed. This is in a PA township and other areas may or may not be similar, but the majority are. These deals are 100% EXCLUSIVE TO ONE COMPANY.

These deals are exclusive and only in a very few handful of occurences are there places which allow for companies like RCN to do overbuilds.

I wanted this years before RCN existed due to the crap service and poor condition of the plant at the time. While not 100% the new companies fault, their clean up time line was not adequate and they needed a fire lit under them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18483142 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:16:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482848 swintec : As far as I have heard/know, exclusitivity deals are no longer put into cable franchise deals. Keep in mind, when I say other cable companies can freely come in, they would have to put up there own lines and such..build there own infrastructure..most cases nothing stopping that, except the OTHER company does not want to pony up the money. Ever hear of the cable company RCN?? They are primarily an overbuilder that goes into neighborhoods and puts there own infrastructure to compete with the existing one...I'll leave it to you to read what there current status is. If the other company doesnt want to pony up the money to build there own network, why is that TW's fault?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482848 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 19:02:17 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482822 rec9140 :
said by swintec See Profile :
said by OB Kenobi See Profile :

There should be a class-action suit to open up the market to competition. I don't want to be a Time Warner customer, but they have hijacked my neighborhood!
Any company can come in, they just dont choose too :) Not TW's fault.


Most certainly IT IS (insert name of ) crapble company.

Most (thats most, not all, there are few exceptions) franchise agreement's do NOT PERMIT multiple carriers in the territory covered.

I wanted to kick what at the time was the very early beginnings of Adelphia out or at least bring in another company which at the time was TCI (Centre Video) to clean up the mess from the previous crapble company Eastern Telecom. The franchise agreement that was signed had very specific EXCLUSIVITY clauses. These were there specifically because of the crapble companies and any attempt to remove them, was a deal breaker. This is they way they operate and why VZ wants to get most of the franchise agreements overturned, as well as only deal with one bought and paid for group of sleazoid politicos. I personally could care less about Fios video, it won't work for my requirements, so I feel they are wasting time in holding up deployments over video crap.

As for RR, when Fios comes to my door and they are digging in my area now. Kiss RR goodbye! I was planning to keep them both for redunancy and some other reasons, but now.... OUT THEY GO.

This is a prime example of why I despise crapble.

And:
NO I am NOT MOVING
NO DSL is NOT AVAILABLE to me
NOR is WISP(s)

BUT
when the Fios Fiber gets to me.... :) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482822 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 18:55:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482543 anon : Looks like it's time to switch to FIOS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482543 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:46:07 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482528 tlg : VOIP? This is just anti-competitive, and probably illegal.

1.) VOIP uses about 100Kbits (not bytes) per seconds, minuscule compared to the amount of bandwidth the end user is buying.

2.) The federal government stepped in and made all of the VOIP providers provide 911 services to their providers. For TWC to interfere with 911 services is most likely illegal, and would set them up for a major law suite if someone should be damaged in some way by not being able to use the 911 services provided by their VOIP provider.
--
MacBook Pro
Mac Mini, 1.42GHz, 1G RAM

iMac DV, 400MHz, 256M RAM

G4 iPod, 40GByte

G5 iPod, 30GByte

iPod Nano, 2Gig

iPod Shuffle, 512MByte (two)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482528 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:42:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482515 swintec :
said by OB Kenobi See Profile :

There should be a class-action suit to open up the market to competition. I don't want to be a Time Warner customer, but they have hijacked my neighborhood!
Any company can come in, they just dont choose too :) Not TW's fault.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482515 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:39:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482468 OB Kenobi : Everyone is moving to 15-30Mbps, while Time Warner is throttling 10Mbps.

This wouldn't matter if customers had a CHOICE. But thanks to the corrupt FCC, these cable monopolies have us trapped.

There should be a class-action suit to open up the market to competition. I don't want to be a Time Warner customer, but they have hijacked my neighborhood!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482468 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:27:44 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482450 anon : I have Road Runner in Syracuse, NY. Here are my results:



Service was advertised as 3Mbps when I signed up in 1998, not sure if that has changed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482450 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:22:56 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482394 grandpinaple : In response to the google question: 500 gb drives on newegg are now 120 dollars. That is less than 25 cents per gig. Now google probably gets it cheaper in bulk so lets say it costs 25 cents per gig after all retention etc is taken care of. That is 75 cents per person. How many total gmail users are there? According to forbes gmail has roughly 6 million users. Assuming an average of 2 accounts each that makes 12 million total. That amounts to 9 million dollars to run gmail. Now there exists a possibility that google isn't overselling or if it is then it is dangerously close to the total amount needed. Sorry I know it's off topic, but I couldn't resist biting.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482394 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 17:09:45 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482340 jkfan4 : ssault...NO ISP is able to give full advertised bandwidth to every single subscriber.

Because it would be a HORRIBLE business plan to do that. A complete waste of resources since most would go unused. To turn ANY profit they would nbeed to charge double what they currently do if they had to pay to upgrade their network to do that. It would be pointless. You really think Google has the storage space to give every single Gmail user 2.8 Gigs of storage? They don't.

I hope for your sake you don't plan on going into any career related to business.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482340 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:56:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482158 anon : RR is absolutely shaping in NY - I'm trying to download a 96MB podcast over Azureus, for which there are 384 seeds and 15 leechers (including me).

The file is coming down a 7kb/s, and has 2 hours to go. Last week, the prior episode of this podcast, with a similar number of seeds and leechers, during roughly the same time, was down in 5 minutes.

Hello, FIOS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18482158 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:06:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481809 grandpinaple : The only problem I have with this packet shaping is that they throttle specific services with impunity. I pay 25 dollars a month for a giganews account and I damned well expect the same packet priority as someone paying for voip from a third party provider. It is arguable that the giganews packets should be prioritized over http packets just because it is a pay extra service. If this is the effect of Time Warner bringing back free usenet then I hope they just get rid of usenet service and forget traffic shaping. Freedom is better than these petty placations they may offer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481809 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:35:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481794 anon : These speed test results don't mean a thing. If they are shaping packets properly, that means only data of specific types are being slowed. If they are doing this right, they will give speed test packets higher priority to show you better results than you really have.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481794 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:31:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481687 ColorBASIC :
said by hwirt See Profile :

"People will only see it if their cable system traffic nears capacity"

Judging by the number of responses and the locations listed, it seems pretty wide spread.
That's because of 2 things.

1. People not seeing it aren't coming to this thread as much as those seeing the effects of it.

2. A lot of cable systems have the so-called 'peak times' where their system is near throughput capacity and then only during those times at which the cable system is operating at near capacity.

According to TWC, ALL their cable systems have implemented traffic shaping, but only those which reach near capacity will pass on those effects to customers.

For an oversimplified example...lets say RR has a 100Mb capacity and you have 5 10Mb customers that happen to be using the service at the same time. Traffic shaping will always be sorting the packets and some are deprioritized, but because the system is under capacity all the packets will be delivered at 10Mb because you have a 100Mb capacity and only a 50Mb demand.

Now let's say you have during the evening 15 customers now on at the same time with 10Mb service. The system is going to give priority to some people over others so some traffic will be delivered at say 9Mb while others will get hammered down to 1-2Mb because the system can deliver 100Mb while having a demand of 150Mb.

IOW, traffic shaping is always in effect whether they system is busy or not, but you only "see" it if demand for services by all the customers exceed the cable systems capacity to deliver it.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481687 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:05:55 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481678 Rook008 : Thanks for clearing that up.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481678 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 14:04:45 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481663 ColorBASIC : If/when is what I mean. From the looks of what is going on we're seeing typical traffic shaping, the deprioritizing of certain packet types. If the network isn't near capacity even a deprioritized packet will be delivered at full speed (barring any other sources of slowdowns between the host and customer).

Once the network starts reaching capacity you see the effects of being 'last in line' in terms of priority.

Those cable systems with chronic problems, meaning they're near capacity all the time, will see the effects of traffic shaping all the time. Others will see it only during peak times, periods of time where the system is near capacity in terms of throughput (eg evenings).

We never see 'evening slowdowns' here in my cable system area so thus far I haven't seen the effects of traffic shaping which is always "on". I'm grabbing some stuff off RR's news server right now and am doing it at 10Mb which for me is faster than usual. From Giganews I'm still getting 14.5Mb from my 15Mb RR service.

I'll say though that I'm in a FiOS area and the second I see the effects of traffic shaping I'm gone for greener fiber pastures.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481663 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:59:49 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481508 snoopvelo : Packet Shaping does not affect Business Class Accounts just got off the phone with Business Class Tech support.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481508 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 13:18:28 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481412 Shadus : What a load of crap, well, I've been pondering DSL and if they're going to screw up my bandwidth this way I'll just go elsewhere. End of story, I've been very happy with NEO TWC until the last few weeks when the lag has become absolutely intolerable, if they're implementing packet shaping on the routers that would explain why. Screw them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481412 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:49:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481304 saber11 : You know if you make this a support nightmare for TWC they will get rid of it.

Anytime your traffic is being shaped, call tech support and complain. The more people that call support, the more agents they have to hire. If they don't hire more agents hold times increase which get's people with real problems mad, which means they cancel their service.

Like I said a support nightmare. Make traffic shaping too exspensive for them to support]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481304 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:23:01 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481255 Rook008 : Do you mean when traffic nears capacity? Because I'm seeing full speeds right now, but during peak times it slows to about one-half to three-quarters of full speed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481255 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 12:13:36 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481149 hwirt : "People will only see it if their cable system traffic nears capacity"

Judging by the number of responses and the locations listed, it seems pretty wide spread. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481149 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:43:15 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481101 anon : This is a total cover for net neutrality, or at least a precursor to it. They might as well say "We're limiting what types of revenue-generating traffic can cross our networks and developing business-grade internet service plans in order to allow those traffic types to pass unhindered to their destination."

If I want to run VoIP, I'll run VoIP. If I want to watch video, I'll watch video. If I want to download demos, I'll download demos. Quit over-selling your bandwidth to such a high degree and supply a legitimate service to your customers, TW!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481101 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:30:13 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481099 antdude : /. and Digg have this story now: »slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/10/0645232 and »digg.com/tech_news/Time_Warner_T···RR_Users

Yay.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481099 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:29:48 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481046 ColorBASIC : People will only see it if their cable system traffic nears capacity. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481046 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:17:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481026 Rook008 : I'm finding that the traffic shaping, if it's been implemented here, is not really a problem, yet. I was able to still get full speeds on news servers last night. And that's when I do most of my downloading anyway.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18481026 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 11:11:54 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480978 anon : If this becomes more commonplace, I wonder what the market would like like to VPN routing ISP companies.

A server you can VPN (encrypt) traffic over your 1st tier ISP, that routes your traffic to the internet un-shaped. Kinda like another 2nd ISP (monthly fee) in addition to your 1st tier.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480978 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:58:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480940 ColorBASIC : What usenet providers accept encrypted connections uncommon multiple ports? Giganews accepts them on 563 and 443 which are common (563 for SSL usenet, 443 for HTTPS) so it wouldn't take much effort to throttle them.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480940 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:47:12 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480933 anon : We understand.. Some are meant to be funny.

Besides, we cant exactly post a speed test to our VOIP providers. How helpful is this to you?

server*CLI> iax2 show peers
Name/Username Host Mask Port Status
NuFone 66.225.202.72 (S) 255.255.255.255 4569 Unmonitored
voicepulse02/ 64.61.93.90 (S) 255.255.255.255 4569 OK (34 ms)
voicepulse01/ 64.61.93.87 (S) 255.255.255.255 4569 OK (34 ms)
3 iax2 peers [2 online, 0 offline, 1 unmonitored]]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480933 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:46:13 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480893 anon : Apparently the idiots posting speedtests don't understand packet shaping technologies. It doesn't affect speedtest sites which are running over HTTP. It affects protocols and ports. Most companies are using deep packet inspection and don't just look at the packet headers. Yeah, I can post a speed test showing 12/1, but that doesn't mean my P2P downloads don't slowly dwindle down to 0kbps.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480893 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:33:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480854 anon : Wow.. This packet shaping thing is really helping me out as well ;)
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480854 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 10:17:48 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480789 anon : Ya, It's affecting me. Our RR adverts are claiming 8mbits.
A couple months ago I was getting about 6.5 but during the last three measurements I am averaging only 4.5mbits.

I feel it is either false advertising or a breach of contract, or both.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480789 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:54:56 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480785 LikwidN2 :
Anyway, it looks to me like in the next few years we're in for a rude awakening. When anything created by people without commercial intentions use is subsequently commercialized, you'll see restriction, limitations, and poor implementations. Why do we bother to have standards ratifications groups if ISPs in their quest for billions are going to ignore the rules of the road simply because they can and there's nothing we can do about it? All of you praising FIOS are too short-sighted to see that as soon as one of them gets away with it, they'll all be justified in doing it by their corporate herding rationalization. The internet is on the verge of severely negative transition, and the ones at the controls are out there for greed, and that's it. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480785 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:54:07 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480568 anon : I can't see how this affects Usenet providers that support encrypted connections and multiple ports. Unless they are going to throttle by ip address or domain.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480568 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 08:39:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480367 anon : Man, must suck to be you guys...

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18480367 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 06:13:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479911 Anonymous_ : yea what ever
Click for full size
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479911 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 00:36:30 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479880 djrobx :
said by ssault See Profile :

»Road Runner HSI Forum FAQ »Why is there so much packetloss on Level 3?

Covers Level 3 issue, read FAQ.
Aware of that phenomenon. Read my entire post. Once again:

"In this case the loss "seems" to normalize out by the time it gets to apple, but I see erratic downloads and sluggish performance at the Apple.com website from both providers."
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479880 Sun, 10 Jun 2007 00:26:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479721 swintec :
said by Anonymous_ See Profile :

from microsoft website
That type of connection is not going to get shaped. It is Usenet and peer to peer file sharing applications, during the peak usage times which I would venture to guess is between 6-10 or so. Simply downloading SP1a was not even a blip on the radar to them. Try HARDER! :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479721 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:51:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479717 Anonymous_ : yes i bet it's Only for Select areas were they have overloads

i have not gotten any email via rr account

they would have told every one by now
--
Global warming did not eat my homework.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479717 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:50:30 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479623 SyphonBW : I also get 15mb d/ling the sp1a and i also get 15mb d/l when using SSL with usenetserver]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479623 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:26:13 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479555 Anonymous_ : from microsoft website]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479555 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 23:08:35 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479409 ColorBASIC : I just DLed the AllThingsD Jobs/Gates video podcast got about 8Mb from my 15Mb connection. Now I'm getting paranoid :D Every time I don't max my pipe I'm going to be wondering if it's just general traffic at the host or if it's traffic shaping.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479409 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 22:39:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479358 swintec :
said by Anonymous_ See Profile :

it's not installed in my area yet

i am getting full speed when downloading Windows XP SP1a
What are you downloading it by?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479358 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 22:29:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479247 Anonymous_ : it's not installed in my area yet

i am getting full speed when downloading Windows XP SP1a]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479247 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 22:08:46 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479218 dontsleep : Wow.I pay for 12/768 in Queens NY and I might not get it all the time because of this idea? Actually I don't get that speed half the time anyway:(.Grrr]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479218 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:57:44 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479193 Anonymous_ : It Might Only be FOR Select areas Were there are a Shit Load of users
--
Global warming did not eat my homework.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18479193 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:51:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18477252 ssault :
said by djrobx See Profile :

quote:
and Itunes use that are getting shaped.
I think the iTunes problem may be unrelated. I am seeing packet loss on Level3 trying to get to Apple's website. I see the same loss from DSLExtreme.

This particular trace from DSLX definitely suggests issues at level3. :)

»Road Runner HSI Forum FAQ »Why is there so much packetloss on Level 3?

Covers Level 3 issue, read FAQ.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18477252 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 13:24:04 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18477125 djrobx :
quote:
and Itunes use that are getting shaped.
I think the iTunes problem may be unrelated. I am seeing packet loss on Level3 trying to get to Apple's website. I see the same loss from DSLExtreme.


In this case the loss "seems" to normalize out by the time it gets to apple, but I see erratic downloads and sluggish performance at the Apple.com website from both providers.

From dslextreme:

This particular trace from DSLX definitely suggests issues at level3. :)

--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18477125 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 12:54:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18476402 Dampier :
said by saber11 See Profile :

Yet another reason to call and write your congress critters. Make sure they support NET NEUTRALITY !!!!
This is a good idea in any case, but actually isn't directly related to this. It's more important to contact TW management and complain about packet shaping impacting your user experience.

What bemuses me about some of the earlier comments from those who seem pro-packet shaping is the short sighted thinking they have used to come to support this kind of activity.

I'm not for Bill up the street running his bittorrent client all day and night and slowing down the neighborhood either, but I am strongly against pitting user against user and worrying about what someone else in the neighborhood might be doing. I am worried about my broadband provider implementing technology that forestalls the necessary network investments that are going to be required to meet the growing bandwidth demands of customers in the future.

As someone who has reported on this industry since the 1980s, this is a pattern I've seen before. Management implements restrictions and punitive measures against customers who respond to their endless marketing campaigns promising "unlimited" usage, "blazing speeds"/"the fastest Internet in city x", and marketing campaigns that even wink wink at illegal online activities (especially peer-2-peer traffic), and then when users utilitze those services, they get all huffy.

Restrictions are sold in press releases as "improvements to the customer's user experience," and there are always some shortsighted folks out there who misunderstand the implications and accept that reasoning (if not applaud it because they now think their specific problems with their provider are solved because it was sold as entirely the fault of some kid up the street downloading adult videos).

But in the end it's always the same - those network management tools start to creep into other high bandwidth applications. Remember, RR itself says explicitly their priority is rendering web pages. So if you didn't care when p-2-p stuff got throttled because you don't use it, and you never bother with newsgroups, this is not relevant to you right now, but wait.

But when it expands to slow your iTunes downloads, restricts your ability to use legal movie or TV download services, makes Joost unusable, or whatever other future online applications that are bandwidth intensive, then you'll probably join the chorus, but by then management will have cemented the mentality that handicapping their network is more cost-effective than actually maintaining it to the standards that are going to be required to meet the demands of these services.

Yes, competition can play an important role in limiting one player from getting away with too much restrictive access, but most cities in this country face just one other choice - copper wire DSL, which has been having trouble competing with Road Runner for speed. FIOS is a great product that is either years away for many of us, or will never be available in our area, and is a unique offering from Verizon that some stockholders are upset is being offered at all.

I'd fight against packet shaping like this even if it only applied to peer to peer networks which I don't even use, because some applications rely on this technology to deliver their broadband content even if you don't realize it.

One example: In the UK right now, Channel 4 has discovered their efforts to deliver video on demand services to broadband customers have run right into packet shaping and usage caps imposed by many British ISPs, rendering the service totally useless for large numbers of people. It relies on a peer to peer distribution model.

I continue to encourage people to look beyond pitting user against user and instead focus on pressuring Time Warner to make the smarter choice for everyone on the network - take some of the enormous profits that TW earns from their cable division and invest them into building a broadband network that can easily meet the growing needs of broadband applications either now available or soon will be, some of which are being built in-house by TW itself. Then you won't need to spend money to implement technology which only reduces the customer's user experience.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18476402 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 10:06:45 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18476212 saber11 : Yet another reason to call and write your congress critters. Make sure they support NET NEUTRALITY !!!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18476212 Sat, 09 Jun 2007 08:57:09 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18475288 hayabusa3303 : I think it has hit here in south carolina now. I use to download videos like ign and other sites and now its going slow to stop.

I dont use any P2p software at all. I do alot of downloading like on linux on the iso just to mess around.

Xbox live in not effected nor my voip is still running fine. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18475288 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 23:51:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18474948 sheik28 : Well, Dampier See Profile it seems you are correct. I had some time tonight and I contacted live chat. Unfortunately, they said the same to me... the details of my chat are below:
quote:
Lee M: Thank you, with what technical issue may we assist you?
me: I am having trouble downloading with Itunes.... is the network having toruble? Ity seems very slow
Lee M: I'm not sure. We can do a slow browsing test if you like.
me: well before i contacted you i searched., and i saw some people saying something
about packet shaping. i read some more but i seem confused. does time warner use packet shaping technology to slow down stuff like that... p2p or whatever it's calleeD?
Lee M: Yes actually, recently they changed the protocol with p2p programs and that may slow your downloading a little bit with programs like itunes or limewire
me: wow that stinks. why?
Lee M: To level the bandwith for weveryone, torrents and p2p takes a lot more bandwith than normal browsing and it was affecting speeds accross the board.
me: well i guess that explains it. thanks for your help

Maybe I just didn't want to believe it.
--
There is no such thing as a stupid question, and yes, the camel types. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18474948 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:34:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18474669 Cogdis : I used the online chat as well and confirmed they've implemented it for TWC in NYC.

Since theres never that much traffic in my area, I haven't noticed any issues yet, but just the fact that they would consider VoIP bandwidth intensive makes me happier than ever that fios is comming. So long to the crooks at TWC... Hello to the crooks at verizon :p]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18474669 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 21:30:29 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18474120 ssault :
said by Dominokat See Profile :

Speed test, with packet shaping can and will give normal results.
Its the ports that Newsgroups and Itunes use that are getting shaped.

I can get my normal speeds on a speed test, but my Newsgroups and Itunes are slow as hell.
I'm feeling your pain in Damariscotta, it has been terrible here. Newsgroups goes down to 500-1000kbps anytime from afternoon till midnight.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18474120 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 19:23:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473978 anon : Just got off a chat with RR:
Smidget: for some reason around 4ish until later at night all my internet downloads are being slowed down, but before that and after around 9-10ish they go back up to full speed
Ken M: What kind of downloads? We are / have implementing a network management policy that may be responsible for slowing down certain type of downloading to reduce network stress and improve quality of access for the bulk of our users.
Smidget: oh... newsgroup downloading as well as some bittorrent, i guess those would be affected, it's just throttled very badly since i normally get 1MB/s (i am a premium user) and currently i am getting ~150-200KB/s
Ken M: P2P and newsgroups are what would be affected, yes.
Smidget: ok, so i guess there's nothing we can do about this other then try those services at non-peak hours? is there certain times that would be better to use these hours?
Ken M: I'd imagine it would be non-peak times, unfortunately I do not have exact information on when. I just know that we are doing so. We call it the Network Management Policy. Mind you, I too am a user that falls in to the 10% that use more than the other 90% and my ISP also throttles torrents (but not newsgroups thankfully). We are also told to direct people to help.rr.com/aup if they want more information on why we do this (or why we think we can).
Ken M: Roadrunner implemented their Network Management Policy which throttles the bandwidth allocated for peer 2 peer applications and Newsgroups. This should only impact binary groups, particularly for customers using 3rd party software that attempts to DL on multiple streams. Inform the caller that TWC is deploying network management tools to improve the operation of the network for all subscribers.
Ken M: ^ That's the notice we've been given regarding the newsgroups.
Smidget: oh ok, well i guess that's it, thank you and i guess even if i'm purchasing the premium package i'm still affected
Ken M: Well, we'd almost want to affect you more right? You technically would likely be more of a problem for the type of thing we are trying to improve (not accusing or trying to insult you, just saying). You'll still have your speed for everything else, just not those types of traffic.
Smidget: right true, well thank you very much for the info]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473978 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:51:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473922 anon : proof?

if anyone has a copy of the memo, i would be more than happy to take it, i can provide an email address to send it to

//still calling shannanigans]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473922 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:41:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473913 swintec :
said by create :

i want to see the link to the article, otherwise, i call shannanigans.
It was a memo sent out to TW employees.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473913 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:38:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473893 anon : i want to see the link to the article, otherwise, i call shannanigans.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473893 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:33:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473842 Dominokat : Speed test, with packet shaping can and will give normal results.
Its the ports that Newsgroups and Itunes use that are getting shaped.

I can get my normal speeds on a speed test, but my Newsgroups and Itunes are slow as hell. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473842 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:23:42 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473752 Anonymous_ : It seems to be Working Well
i do not think it is installed on Palmdale's system yet but is installed on others and it helps A LOT

last night i was getting Odd ping times

like 50ms to NY (dslr)
and 15ms to TX (pcpitstop)

the network i am on dose not seem to be used alot

so they might not install this hardware

out of all the houses on my block they use Suck big crap(sbc/ATT or DSLX)

there WiFi shows it ;)


--
Global warming did not eat my homework.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473752 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:05:38 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473735 hwirt : Thanks for the heads up Dampier!

I started noticing that my connection to Giganews was much slower than usual a couple weeks ago. Use to download at almost the cap speed of my modem, now seems to limited to about 1 megabit down. Another new and exciting feature from Time Warner.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473735 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:02:28 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473730 Dominokat : Whether he knows his ass from an elbow is mute.

SOMETHING has changed. My Newsgroups is slow during "peak" hours, AND SO IS ITUNES. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473730 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 18:01:36 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473709 anon : time warner rochester does absolutely no packet shaping, the news group servers are not even hosted locally (they used to be) i use my rr turbo to the max all the time without any issue, i seed linux distros on bittorrent, i upload to my friends at max rate, i constantly max out my download speeds.

sounds like the original poster doesn't know his ass from a hole in the gorund and is bitter because he can't download his illegal content as fast as he would like... boo fucking hoo... and btw, that "article" he posted... fake ;)

tool]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473709 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:58:02 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473659 Dominokat : I honestly can cope with the packet shaping when using newsgroups considering what it is often used for.

But this packet shaping seems to have also effected my use of Itunes, a perfectly legal and legit program to download movies, music and TV shows to your Ipod.

What used to take 15-20 minutes to download a subscribed to TV show, now can take up to 4 1/2 hours......

(sarcasm) Yea. This packet shaping really helps my experience. (/sarcasm) ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473659 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:49:05 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473530 swintec :
said by scottyk87 See Profile :

Good timing because I am jumping ship to AT&T U-verse that was just introduced in my area. IPTV + fiber to the node, copper to the home internet. 6 mbit down / 1 mbit up for less than the price of TW.
Do us a favor, when you switch and call TW to cancel and they ask why, tell them your gripes about the packet shaping, it is so bad its making you cancel. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473530 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:27:48 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473514 scottyk87 : Good timing because I am jumping ship to AT&T U-verse that was just introduced in my area. IPTV + fiber to the node, copper to the home internet. 6 mbit down / 1 mbit up for less than the price of TW.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473514 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:25:54 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473403 Dampier :
said by just my thought :

Well, why pay the extra money for faster speeds above the "standard" Time Warner speeds, if you can't use it. Even if you can "at certain times only."

I guess I'll call and have my speeds reduced, since I can't use what I got anyway. And pay ALLOT extra for.
We pay $10 more for Premium access here in Rochester. Since I seem to have found a workaround that gives me some speed back, I am going to leave things alone. I am not sure what I can recommend the Torrent folks do to bypass this.

Remember, before making a decision about your account, you should weigh the impact of this packet shaping on your own account usage. If it doesn't affect you much, no need to change. But I'd start with a written complaint no matter what you decide to do, especially if you downgrade.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473403 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:03:31 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Replies to Complaint http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473396 Dampier : Here is the reply I received from the corporate office today. Like Madge, we're soaking in the boilerplate language, but the more who complain, the better the chance this policy is modified:

Executive Response Center to me

Hello,

Thank you for writing. You have reached the email address of the Time Warner Corporate Customer Care Department for Road Runner.

I appreciate you taking the time to provide feedback regarding our services and performance issues you have recently incurred. Such feedback helps us to improve our services for you our valued customer. I have forwarded your email to our network services groups for further review and consideration. I thank you again for your comments regarding our service.

Should you have any future comments regarding our services, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,

Gerald Joa
Customer Care Manager
Road Runner High Speed Online
Corporate Customer Care
customercare@ndc.rr.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473396 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:01:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473372 anon : Well, why pay the extra money for faster speeds above the "standard" Time Warner speeds, if you can't use it. Even if you can "at certain times only."

I guess I'll call and have my speeds reduced, since I can't use what I got anyway. And pay ALLOT extra for. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473372 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:57:17 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473359 Dampier : The packet shaping is in place again this afternoon here in Rochester. Four concurrent connections to Giganews which used to max out my 15/1 account are now reduced at the moment to under 400kbps. Increasing to 10 concurrent connections brought it to around 950kbps.

I have been doing initial trial testing to SSL encrypted connections using Giganews and the Giganews Accelerator. From what I am seeing right now, SSL encryption notwithstanding, newsgroup data packets are still being throttled despite a different port number and 256 bit encryption.

However, some providers now permit up to 20 concurrent connections and I find that with 15, I can get my old speeds back. I have further testing to be done. I am not using any Bit torrent p2p stuff so I won't be looking at that.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18473359 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:55:24 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18472611 Digital : Too bad I can't get a good connection on TOR, I'd forward all the traffic coming off of the router through that. Heh. I haven't really seen any packet shaping on the linux isos i've got on bit torrent lately, but newsgroups are slower than dog crap.
--
One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18472611 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:49:50 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18472044 ColorBASIC : ISP's can't crap capacity.

If you don't want overselling, you will get 768kbps access for the same $50 you're paying today and even then it will still be oversold at the headend/CO level.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18472044 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:26:03 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18472014 swhx7 :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

Flat rates are absolutely an excuse for overselling.

Overselling is REQUIRED if you want 15Mb for $50.

Overselling is the ONLY way to provide that speed for that price.

No, it's not true. If they're not going to build more capacity, at least let's have truthfulness enforced. Then instead of "15Mb for $50" in big print and "up to" and other negations in tiny print, it would be advertised as "maximum 15Mb, less at peak hours, maybe secret limits on total traffic, and we will degrade any traffic we choose to degrade at any time" for $50.

Another problem is the nature of these contracts. They're extremely one-sided and the ISPs grant themselves the exclusive right to change the terms at any time. This could not happen in a competitive market. Therefore we need both pro-competition policies (like equal access to the "last mile"), and regulation to impose some fairness on the contracts until there is enough competition that regulation is no longer needed.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18472014 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:21:34 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471975 ColorBASIC :
said by niagara_man1 See Profile :

thats fine. .... i would be willing to pay. I just signed up for TW 2 meg upload / 7 meg download for 169.99 in my area.
Call the telco and tell them you want a T-1 or T-3. It's would be $500/mo+ but it's dedicated and you can use it 24-7. Plus when it goes down they bust ass to fix it. They will not be calling you about excessive use or subjecting you to traffic shaping.

But even at $170 for 7Mb, it's going to be a shared connection. It's whether or not $170 buys you out of traffic shaping.

That's the trade off...cable network shared topology getting you 15Mb with traffic shaping for $50 or non-shared or SLA access for $500+ for 1.5/1.5Mb service.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471975 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:16:25 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471909 TelecomJunky : This is very interesting if true. It may be just a coencidence, though I doubt it, but the local ISP I work for began getting reports from Time Warner users of extremely slow throughput to our network to the point that sites wouldn't load and email wouldn't download.

We also provide voip and some of our voip customers on time warner began having extremely bad lag and echo. Since our VoIP are located on other networks, we knew more was going on than just a routing issue to our network. We also had several time warner customers in the area that had no problem what-so-ever.

Through working with our users and theirs we also found out that they were having similar problems with several major banking sites.

My guess this all had to do with their implementing this packet shaping.

Let's see if the FCC is going to do anything about them degrading voip so they can force people onto their digital phone. We have long suspected them of blocking voip ports on certain voip customers of ours that use their cable network...
--
----- »hotcarl.diaryland.com]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471909 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:05:47 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471693 niagara_man1 : thats fine. .... i would be willing to pay. I just signed up for TW 2 meg upload / 7 meg download for 169.99 in my area.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471693 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:04:35 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471884 ColorBASIC : 38Mb per channel, not total. It's not the "node" per se that is the limitation...it's how many channels are dedicated to throughput.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471884 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 13:02:17 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471849 ColorBASIC : Flat rates are absolutely an excuse for overselling.

Overselling is REQUIRED if you want 15Mb for $50.

Overselling is the ONLY way to provide that speed for that price.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471849 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:57:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471843 djrobx : People have been talking about cable blockage being at the node since the days when service was capped at 1500kbps. Somehow we've stepped up to 6-10mbps and the same topology seems to be handling it. We've only gone from QAM64 (29mbps) to QAM256 (38mbps),

I'm on node SC71, which I'm guessing means there are at least 71 nodes in Santa Clarita (I also know that due to a certain planning blunder we were one of the last nodes). 71 * 38mbps = 2698mbps. Yet all tracerts show we go through a gigabit ethernet connection to Tujunga. Hmmmmm...

Of course, from what I understand a node is just a fiber->coax conversion, and what we're really referring to are DOCSIS channels. Couldn't there be more than one DOCSIS channel per node? Perhaps many nodes are sharing the same channel? Those are the questions I'd like to see answers to, but I suppose we're getting off topic. :)

-- Rob
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471843 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:56:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471833 swhx7 :
said by ColorBASIC See Profile :

If you want to pay per MB, then you can compare residential HSI to electricity.

You don't pay a flat monthly rate for electricity for if you did, you can damn well bet they would be throttling your high electricity applications like your A/C unit.

Flat rates are no excuse for overselling or for packet discrimination. Users are entitled to expect the advertised rates even at peak times.

Traffic amounts is a different issue than bandwidth at a give time; these are often confused.

Heavy users (in terms of total traffic over time) should expect to pay more. In a flat rate system - which we have with internet because people overwhelmingly prefer flat rates - that means going to a higher tier such as "business class". But if other posters' interpretations are correct, RR is actually throttling those users down to the lower-tier rates.

Sooner or later we need more capacity. Without government intervention ISPs will increase restrictions more and more instead of investing in capacity. A better solution would be taxpayer support of infrastructure, and regulation to force ISPs to pass along the benefits to customers (including network neutrality) instead of letting it be windfall corporate welfare.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471833 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:54:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471726 ColorBASIC : What you're asking for is called an SLA and the pricing is very simple.

Unlimited use = Price is insane (T-1, T-3 etc)
Limited use = Price is typical of residential pricing

You will not EVER see true unlimited use for typical residential pricing with current cable HSI network topology. The network isn't designed for it and in order to update the network so that it could support it would result in insanely high residential pricing.

While new emerging cable network technologies come out like SDV and DOCSIS 3, you will see these limitations mitigated but never eliminated.

To eliminate it completely you would have to remove the source of the bottlenecks (the nodes) or upgrade them significantly which is extremely cost prohibitive (read insanely high residential service prices).
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471726 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:33:41 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471720 swhx7 :
said by Dampier See Profile :

3) The company is warning customers who are smart enough to circumvent these by encrypting or moving their packets off the "usual ports/traffic neighborhood" that it is a violation of the AUP to do so and potentially puts your account in peril.

I hope this is not true.

As an occasional BT user (for things I consider legitimate, not "stealing movies") I expect not to be affected much by bandwidth limits, because I carefully regulate it to avoid affecting the neighbors or attracting attention from RR.

However, like almost all knowledgable BT users I avoid the standard ports. As far as I'm concerned it is normal, with any network technology, to use any ports that work and don't cause problems for anyone. If this is going to be considered evasion of AUP, that's a problem.

Likewise, it's unacceptable for an ISP to expect users to leave all their packet unencrypted just because it helps their throttling efforts. It's none of their business what my packets are about, their job is just to deliver them as well as possible.

If they don't have the capacity to deliver all the traffic then they should be forced to restrain their advertising of rates until they build enough infrastructure to live up to it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471720 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:32:23 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471692 ColorBASIC : People have been saying "they don't know" about telco wireline services for 10 years. The nature of telco wireline is they don't have the bottlenecks in the same spot as the cable operators do. Cable bottlenecks are often at the node level which isn't an issue for DSL or FiOS. Rarely if ever is the bottle neck at the headend or CO. It's just the nature of the two network layouts that cable HSI is more susceptible to slowdowns casued by the so-called hogs.

So I have no doubt in my mind that TW is implementing traffic shaping because they are facing these bottlenecks that are a simply the nature of cable internet topology.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471692 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:28:08 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471684 djrobx :
quote:
For example, if I buy the up-to 10/1 advertised service, then the ISP should be required to provide at least, lets say, 95% of the service 24/7/365 as the MINIMUM requirement. If they can not do it, then do not advertise it. Pretty simple. If there is some hidden bandwidth cap or throttling going on based on time of day, or usage, or whatever, …then they must disclose what it is.
95% of 10/1 guaranteed 24/7 is unreasonable for a $54.95/month service and they do not advertise it as such. Go price out "guaranteed bandwidth" business packages with speeds similar to that and see what pricng you come up with.

They are doing right by disclosing the existence fo the packet shaping. They tried to explain what a peak usage hour is as best as possible, "usually the evenings". As ColorBASIC poitned out, assuming this is implemented correctly, it should be dynamic and only restrict certain types of usage when the network can't support it.

--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471684 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:27:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471662 ColorBASIC : If you want to pay per MB, then you can compare residential HSI to electricity.

You don't pay a flat monthly rate for electricity for if you did, you can damn well bet they would be throttling your high electricity applications like your A/C unit.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471662 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:25:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471637 anon : Rant follows: There needs to be a fundamental change in their business model. For example, if I pay for unlimited Phone service with Verizon, I get just that…unlimited usage, no caps, no peak times. I can use my phone 24/7/365 if I want. For those not willing to pay a premium for unlimited calls, then there are less expensive plans with a minutes caps. Same with my wireless provider. I get what I pay for, and I know exactly what I get. Unlimited means unlimited. 1000 minutes means 1000 minutes. It’s all spelled out. For TV service, I know what channels I pay for. I can watch them 24/7/365 if I want. If I want more channels, I pay for it.

OK, now let’s look at the voodoo, smoke and mirrors Internet plans from TWC (and others as well). Say I have premium 10/1 service. But what does that mean? God only knows (and TWC). We are all reminded that speeds are not guaranteed…ok. But what does that mean? What is guaranteed then? Nothing is guaranteed. Kind of like those mpg rating on cars, YMMV.

Since TWC and their ilk do not and will not adequately disclose the details and restrictions on their Internet plans, then local or federal govt should mandate a MINIMUM level of service based on the ADVERTISED level of service. For example, if I buy the up-to 10/1 advertised service, then the ISP should be required to provide at least, lets say, 95% of the service 24/7/365 as the MINIMUM requirement. If they can not do it, then do not advertise it. Pretty simple. If there is some hidden bandwidth cap or throttling going on based on time of day, or usage, or whatever, …then they must disclose what it is. Pretty simple. Of course, the odds of this happening are slim to none considering how the cable and telco companies grease and lobby legislation to their benefit only.

The only way this will change is if enough people complain to the local govt representatives. Otherwise, we are at their mercy, so get used to it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471637 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:20:28 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471615 djrobx :
quote:
IOW...limits are part of life...IF you're a cable customer. But for users in Temescal Valley, Huntington Beach and some other SoCal areas there are alternatives that are just as fast and about the same price but have none of these use restrictions.
They don't now. Time Warner didn't a week ago either. I'm just not so certain that these limits are only being imposed due to "cable topology" problems. Anyone know how many 38mbps DOCSIS QAM256 channels are in simultaneous use on an average system? There's TW's peering/transit to the rest of the world to consider as well.

Verizon might actually want heavy usage statistics to prove the need for FIOS to their investors. :)
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471615 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:16:20 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471605 ColorBASIC : The limit is that they traffic shape and the traffic shaping is always in effect. You only see it when the network nears usage capacity (so-called peak times).

Traffic shaping is a service limitation but is a dynamic one. The effects change from second to second.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471605 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:14:27 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471602 swhx7 :
said by Dampier See Profile :

The thing about people considering this good news is that the trends like this rarely are positive. It signals management willingness to start limiting their users' ability to use the service and spend less on improving the network. That generally guarantees more throttling for more applications they define as "abusive" and the kinds of hidden usage caps like Comcast loves are now in the realm of possibility as well. Because when management considers punitively imposing restrictions on their customers, that philosophy can quickly extend to many other aspects of their service. The key is nipping this mentality in the bud before it becomes entrenched, not because we should celebrate bandwidth piggies, but because the nature of the Internet and future applications that require broadband connections inevitably make more and more of us bandwidth piggies in their eyes.

Well said. This is why we need network neutrality legislation. ISPs ought to be, by law, "common carriers" such that it is none of their business what the customer is using the connection for. The electric utility simply bills me by the kilowatt, and has no right to try to set different terms depending on whether I'm using I'm using the watts for a light bulb or a lawn mower. Large ISPs obviously want a different rule and this has to be stopped.

Discussions of this topic always get the neutrality issue confused with the bandwidth and total-traffic issues. The question of neutrality or discrimination is about discrimination by type of traffic or origin or destination. The fact that cable companies oversell capacity is also a problem but it is a separate issue.

A reasonable policy would be (a) no discrimination (b) any limits on total traffic must be openly disclosed (c) if the ISP is going to limit usage to less than the advertised rates at any time they have to admit it in their advertising (plainly, not with "up to" weasel words).

Legislators aren't representing constituents (other than big corporations) on this. We need to whack them with clue-by-fours. Write a letter.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471602 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:13:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471588 anon : limit on bandwidth and throttling....because no one here knows what those limits are and when they are in effect.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471588 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:10:00 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471538 ColorBASIC : Limits on what? Throughput? The limits are having to put up with traffic shaping which is dynamic depending on load on the cable system. While they traffic shape, they don't cancel you for excessive use like Comcast does.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471538 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:01:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471527 anon : So, just what exactly are those limits? Anyone care to elaborate? Any TWC disclosure agreement or TOS we can read that specifically states what those limits are? Amazing what they can get away with. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471527 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:58:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471479 ColorBASIC : The problem isn't whether it's reasonable or not...TWC's major SoCal competitor, Verizon, permits 24-7 use with both their DSL and FiOS products.

So TWC is free to limit their service but with true wireline competition in SoCal, people like me will simply leave as Verzion has no trouble supporting the "hogs".

The fact is whether it's RR, Cox, Cablevision or Comcast; current cable system topology doesn't support providing these 15Mb speeds and in order to do it they have to select which customers and applications can get it. With SDV, DOCSIS3 and improved compression technology they will soon be able to but in the meantime these changes for me say "cable can't compete" with emerging telco wireline competition like we have in many many areas of SoCal.

IOW...limits are part of life...IF you're a cable customer. But for users in Temescal Valley, Huntington Beach and some other SoCal areas there are alternatives that are just as fast and about the same price but have none of these use restrictions.

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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471479 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:48:14 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471317 djrobx : For me, doing something to limit rampant use of services known to be used in a continual manner during peak usage hours is not surprising with areas moving to 10-15mbps caps.

With a 10mbps connection and the included newsgroup service you can easily suck down around 100GB per day and you can bet there are people doing it. I love my newsgroup downloads, but I simply don't think it's reasonable to expect Time Warner to deliver every customer 10mbps 24x7 for $54.95 per month. Residential pricing and speeds are based on sharing intermittent use.

So in my mind there must be limits. When someone is walking out the door with the all-you-can-eat buffet table, what are the options? Impose monthly download limits? Give everyone lower speed caps so we're all stuck with 1.5mbps 24x7? Charge extra per gigabyte downloaded? Take away the free news server? Cancel people's accounts? Yes, they can beef up their back end to support the "hogs", but the circuits required to carry this kind of transit aren't cheap and there's a point where it's not cost effective to do so. An OC3 is 155mbps. That whole thousands-of-dollars-per-month circuit will be filled with just 10 people maxing out 15mbps caps! Even at the undiscounted $54.95 per month price, the money they collect isn't going to cover the cost!

Given the choices, I like TW's approach. I find it comforting to know I can queue up gigs and gigs worth of downloads in my newsreader and know that my downloads are not negatively impacting someone else's online game play. As long as I can still enjoy full speeds when the network is not so busy it's overall still worthwhile for me. And it's nice to know I'm not going to get some nasty letter from TW. Compare that to Comcast who cancels their users, or Cox who advertises a 60gb per month limit for their premier customers!

Nobody likes limits but they're part of life. If you don't like the limits you have to find another service that doesn't have them. For most people that alternative is much slower DSL.
--
Laser eye surgery rocks! I love frickin' laser beams.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471317 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 11:14:06 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471106 Dampier :
said by ccbadd See Profile :

I don't mind the traffic shaping if need be, but I wish they would not include VoIP as a high bandwidth application. I use Packet8 and they use very little of my bandwidth and that is only when I am on the phone. I see this as a way to stifle competition with there own over-priced VoIP offering.
I think they use weasel words in the stuff I got over this application so I cannot confirm they are actually doing this because I cannot imagine it would use that much bandwidth, unless you had one of those business VoIP systems that run multiple lines. I have Vonage here and during the throttling of newsgroups, I had no problems at all using Vonage. I am not really sure they are bothering with VoIP stuff right now, but they obviously reserve the right to. I wouldn't be too worried about VoIP, at least not yet.

BTW, I just received a second canned e-mail response from RR about the policy. This one is abbreviated and seems to only talk about newsgroups and p-2-p:

Thank you for choosing Time Warner - Road Runner E-mail Technical Support.

I understand that you are experiencing a slow connection with your peer 2 peer connections or newsgroups.

I can assist you with this.

Time Warner recently implemented a network management tool to improve the operation of the network for all subscribers. As a result, a small minority of users may experience slower speeds during peak hours when using certain applications that consume lots of bandwidth. You can address this situation by reducing your use of bandwidth-intensive applications during peak hours. "Peak hours" are generally in the evenings.

If you view our Acceptable Use Policy found here: »help.rr.com/aup, please take note of the second and third bullets, which state:

* The Road Runner service may not be used to engage in any conduct that interferes with Road Runner's ability to provide service to others, including the use of excessive bandwidth.

* The Road Runner service may not be used to breach or attempt to breach the security, the computer, the software or the data of any person or entity, including Road Runner, to circumvent the user authentication features or security of any host, network or account, to use or distribute tools designed to compromise security, or to interfere with another's use of the Road Runner service through the posting or transmitting of a virus or other harmful item or to deliberately overload or flood that entity's system.

I do apologize for any inconvenience this may cause!

If you have any further questions or problems, please feel free to e-mail us again for further assistance. When replying to this address, please include this message as well as all previous correspondence regarding this issue.

Thank you for choosing Time Warner - Road Runner and have a great evening!

Time Warner - Road Runner Technical Support Department.

Coming from the desk of Technical Support Agent Brian, 02587]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471106 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:29:16 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471062 Doctor Four : If this was implemented system wide back on the 6th, then
I'm not seeing any impact yet here. I still get a full 6 Mbps
from Giganews, even during peak usage times.

My guess is that not many people on my node use their
bandwidth a lot. Either that, or they have AT&T (the
main alternative to cable where I live).
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
We are the Hacker Collective: Resistance Is Futile - All Your AACS Keys Will Be Assimilated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471062 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:19:54 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471018 ColorBASIC : My TW news server speeds have always sucked so I don't use them as a guide. I've been just watching my Giganews speeds which for both encrypted and unencrypted traffic have remained a steady 14.5Mb from my 15Mb service.

You could be in a burdened cable system cause there are at least 2 cable systems here in SoCal (mine headed out of Lake Elsinore, and another near LA) that we aren't seeing any effects of traffic shaping yet...at least that I can see.

So I think what this will do is for those cable systems that have evening slow downs...what we'll see is the evening slow downs get far worse for BT, P2P, and usenet users by the slow downs are lessened for all of the other users. Those in areas with no slow downs may just continue that way.

But who knows...cable operators can be a devious lot and we may not be seeing traffic shaping because we have SO MUCH FiOS competition here. From Corona to Huntington Beach and farther north, a lot of the TWC footprint is paralleled by FiOS service.
--
Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471018 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:09:26 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471001 mnmsmith : Maybe my cable system is at capacity then, because since this was implemented, my Newsgroup speeds are down to nothing no matter what time of day.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18471001 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:04:59 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470995 koolkid1563 :
said by Dampier See Profile :

Our primary service is to provide you with a high speed connection to the Internet for loading websites.
So, now they are telling us what the "Internet" really is to be used for. Websites!!! No gaming, no videos, no VoIP (unless it is through them I am sure)...What is going on here? Eh, I am curious if this will go into the Earthlink subscriber base on the TWC network, someone else mentioned this above.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470995 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:03:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470992 mnmsmith : Yeah, this sucks, I cancelled my 'Premium' subscription when I noticed my newsgroups had been affected. I wish there was another alternative here, only Embarq (Sprint) DSL, who knows, I may have to move that that...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470992 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:02:39 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470984 ColorBASIC : As I mentioned earlier, peak times has less to do with the times than the peaks.

All this traffic shaping is doing is deprioritizing packets of high bandwidth applications. If your cable system is not running near capacity, even deprioritized traffic still runs full speed.

If your local cable system is near capacity nearly all day, then you'll see the effects of traffic shaping all day. In other local cable systems that aren't near capacity, those users may never see any effects of traffic shaping because there are no "peak" hours.

I haven't seen the effects of traffic shaping yet (knocks on wood) but I also use encrypted usenet service from Giganews. Then again I've NEVER seen a slowdown in my area under TWC I may never be affected by this traffic shaping, encryption or not.

If I ever am, I also happen to be in the FiOS hotbed that is SoCal and one call to Verizon and all my traffic shaping problems disappear in a week or two. FiOS while offering the same 15/2 speeds has so much network capacity they can let their users run willy-nilly 24-7 and they don't seem to give a crap.

Even with SSL they can look at throttling prot 563 (traditional SSL NNTP port) just like they did 1214 for Kazaa. Luckily Giganews also acception SSL connections on 443 which is the traditional HTTPS port. TW may have to do a bit a tail chasing to stop those determined to circumvent the traffic shaping or resort to Comcast's just cancel heavy users approach.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470984 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:00:58 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470964 Doctor Four : You know, if they only did this when the node you were on
was at or fairly close to being saturated (say > 75% of its
capacity in use), I would be OK with this.

I can always time shift my Usenet downloading so that it
occurs after 10-11 PM, which is past the peak usage period.

But I do think they are going to have a lot of angry
customers who will consider switching to DSL. And if
FIOS is in an area where this traffic shaping is widely
implemented, you're going to see a lot of former TWC
customers who will gladly jump ship.
--
"The trouble with computers, of course, is that they are very sophisticated idiots." - Doctor Who (from Robot)
We are the Hacker Collective: Resistance Is Futile - All Your AACS Keys Will Be Assimilated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470964 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:55:43 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470963 anon : If they are using anything like Ellacoya DPI (deep packet inspection) technology then we are royally screwed. Read the link for more info or just go to the Ellacoya site to see with DPI really is.
»www.screenplaysmag.com/Editor/Ar···ult.aspx]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470963 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:55:37 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470962 ccbadd : I don't mind the traffic shaping if need be, but I wish they would not include VoIP as a high bandwidth application. I use Packet8 and they use very little of my bandwidth and that is only when I am on the phone. I see this as a way to stifle competition with there own over-priced VoIP offering. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470962 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:55:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470825 niagara_man1 : Wow, and everyone complained when I bicthed about how crappy they are. How the Advertised speed issue is a problem.

Ok I understand the UP TO now from a few other posts. Now they are saying you cannot use "UP TO" without getting into issues !!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470825 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:52:19 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470930 Dampier :
said by SyphonBW See Profile :

Well my speeds on newsgroups are @ 1800kb's a sec 15mbps a sec and that is with SSL Maybe SSL cant be seen by roadrunner or can it?
With SSL on, supposedly you can hide your network traffic (Giganews markets an account with that option specifically to get beyond packet shapers), but some packet shaping technology can still identify traffic based on how it moves across the network (On another forum someone mentioned Cisco sells technology which can throttle encrypted traffic based on how the packets move back and forth, making it easy to identify even encrypted p-2-p traffic.)

Also, and this is very important, RR admits to using this only at "peak times" but then doesn't really define what those hours are. Peak time for Rochester apparently include late afternoons because that is when I noticed throughput going off the cliff.

When connectivity sucks, my usual routine is to check latency and other providers and what was different this time is that no matter where I went for newsgroup traffic, and no matter how many connections I opened, they all gradually slowed down to the same speed... around 400kbps for four concurrent connections. I could approximate standard RR 10mbps speed only when opening 10 concurrent connections and then shutting them off every 15 minutes or so and restarting them.

And I don't spend all day on newsgroups - usually 30 minutes a day max, so I'm hardly Mr. Piggy when it comes to network usage (and outside of technology that relies on p-2-p to deliver legal content, I don't use Bit Torrent stuff at all).

The thing about people considering this good news is that the trends like this rarely are positive. It signals management willingness to start limiting their users' ability to use the service and spend less on improving the network. That generally guarantees more throttling for more applications they define as "abusive" and the kinds of hidden usage caps like Comcast loves are now in the realm of possibility as well. Because when management considers punitively imposing restrictions on their customers, that philosophy can quickly extend to many other aspects of their service. The key is nipping this mentality in the bud before it becomes entrenched, not because we should celebrate bandwidth piggies, but because the nature of the Internet and future applications that require broadband connections inevitably make more and more of us bandwidth piggies in their eyes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470930 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:49:32 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470910 dadarkside : Adelphia had been doing this for years prior to being bought out by RR. The ONLY one's who noticed, were the MOST EGREGIOUS TORRENT ADDICTS. It's VERY EASY to implement without being invasive.

I doubt ANYONE on RR would even notice unless they were doing torrents 24x7x365 full throttle.

But OH OH OH...The SKY is falling!!!!!

get a grip. This technology is an awesome way to cut down in SPAM and Virus transmission when clueless hosts find themselves unknowingly infected cause they downloaded some trojan imbeded in a torrent file.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470910 Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:44:21 EDT Re: [TWC] TW Officially Announces Packet Shaping for All RR User http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18470824 ColorBASIC :
said by Dampier See Profile :

said by djrobx See Profile :

7:30pm and downloading from NG server at 1180KB/sec. This shaping technology doesn't seem to have hit my area yet.
That is possible, although remember this is in effect only during "peak times" whatever that means (and if someone can get them to confirm what those times actually are, that would be useful to know.)
Peak times means you'll only see the traffic shaping when the network traffic is so heavy as to require it. If you're