Skippy25
join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO | reply to ColorBASIC
Re: Says a group who stands to make money
I would agree, but you can take the customer's word.
"Customer complaints in West Virginia have soared 60% since 2001." |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·Covad Wireless
edit:
June 11th, @10:44AM
| Since 2001...the number of customers could have increased 60% since 2001. If I have 100 customers in 2001 and 150 in 2007, I would expect, if everything is the same to have a 50% increase in the number of complaints because I have a 50% increase in the number of customers.
The question would be has the rate of complaints PER SUBSCRIBER (or per 1000 subscribers) changed appreciably since 2001.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
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00000
clubs: | good point, but chances are their voice customers have DECREASED (say from 100 to 75). so reverse your point and that's the situation.
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
edit:
June 11th, @11:14AM
| True...who knows what the real story is. But I'm sure I'm not going to get it from the telco or their union. |
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morbo
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clubs: | ok, but you are also willing to ignore or discount west virginia's complaints? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
edit:
June 11th, @11:50AM
| As I see it from the VZ forums, complaints are nothing new...meaning I don't see any evidence that VZ is purposely letting copper go to hell to get people to get FTTH or any other purpose. |
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pfak
Premium
join:2002-12-29
Canada
·Shaw
 ·Novus Entertainmen..
| reply to ColorBASIC
Aren't the union employees the ones that are working on the lines? Aren't they the ones directly stuck in the middle of this mess?
It doesn't really benefit them to whine and complain about the copper, because there is plenty of work for them on the fiber side of the business - but I believe they're trying to inform their customers to what is really happening behind the scenes.
This is however not limited to Verizon, providers up in Canada (eg. TELUS) are leaving their copper in horrible disrepair, and have been skipping preventative maintenance on copper since at least 2002. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | They could be trying to make MORE work for them (them being the union). |
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Whome
join:2005-10-10
Newbury Park, CA
| reply to ColorBASIC
Here is the REAL story, Verizon is not spending money on copper plant, unless the repair or addition is absolutely necessary or mandated, Period. Wirelines are a shrinking business and they will not invest in a shrinking business, so what I read in the article is true. All spending is going towards FiOs, any area that will not turn a profit with FiOS will be sold off. This is a calculated business decision. Wall street is looking at their stock and that mean FiOS. |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·Cox HSI
 ·AT&T Southwest
| reply to ColorBASIC
said by ColorBASIC  :If I have 100 customers in 2001 and 150 in 2007, I would expect, if everything is the same to have a 50% increase in the number of complaints because I have a 50% increase in the number of customers. Heh, but your company would really have to be screwing up royally to have 100% of every new customer complaining, don't you think?
If you gained 10,000 customers and also had 10,000 complaints I don't think that's much to be proud of.
I'm sure the CWA is concerned about its members being laid off because of the lack of work caused by Verizon refusing to maintain the infrastructure, and rightly so.... but the customers don't have any vested interest, and they seem to be saying "Things are going to hell here with Verizon" 
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
June 11th, @01:26PM
| No, percentage increase. If you have 1/3 of the people complaining at 100 customers (33) and 1/3 of the people complaining at 150 customers (50), that isn't 100% of the increase complaining.
Other than CWA claims, I'm not seeing any evidence that Verizon is "refusing" to maintain their copper.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
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clubs:
·Charter Pipeline
·AT&T Southwest
edit:
June 11th, @01:44PM
| said by ColorBASIC :No, percentage increase. If you have 1/3 of the people complaining at 100 customers (33) and 1/3 of the people complaining at 150 customers (50), that isn't 100% of the increase complaining. Other than CWA claims, I'm not seeing any evidence that Verizon is "refusing" to maintain their copper. fact: wire line subscriptions for telcos are down.
fact: west virginia noted 60% increase in complaints.
math: 60% increase in complaints = 60% more complaints now. it's not that difficult to connect the dots unless you have motivation not to. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
June 11th, @02:03PM
| I looked at the article, where are you getting 60% increase in complaints from. I missed it. But I'm a bit distracted listening to the WWDC keynote and didn't reread the article word-for-word.
I also missed in the article where wire line subscriptions are down. I've seen general articles about POTS losses but I've seen general articles about massive DSL adds. I'm also not seeing what the general type of complaint is (bad POTS service vs bad DSL service, vs customer service vs billing, vs missed appointments).
I'm not doubting that telco service sucks, which is why I'm with Time Warner and not Verizon FiOS...but I am just not connecting the dots between what is claimed in the article and Verizon refusing to maintain copper.
Seems they/you are drawing a conclusion (the "refusals") that isn't the only explanation for the complaints; meaning those dots there are pretty far apart.
All I'm seeing is the union worker claims...not of which substantiated by a source that doesn't stand to make some money either way.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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Dolgan
Premium
join:2005-10-01
Sun Prairie, WI | Not our fault that you have no clue as to what is happening with Verizon Copper Plant. Maybe if you took off your anti-Union goggles you might actually see this as the customer service issue it actually is. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
·RoadRunner Cable
·Covad Wireless
edit:
June 11th, @02:50PM
| Sucky customer service is a different issue than "refusing" to upkeep the copper.
But sorry if I don't take the Union at their word...we know how they're so truthful and have only the customer's interest at heart and all. 
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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ghopper
join:2004-06-28
Everett, WA
·Comcast
| reply to ColorBASIC
If you had an increase from 100 to 150, you would have a 67% increase, not 50. This isn't a statistics class so I'll spare details, but if you saw a 67% increase (or 50% increase), statistically you actually have a greater problem since the bell curve will govern the rate of customer complaints.
You are right that the meaningful number is a compairson of the rates (per 1000 customers or what ever metric you want to use) not overall complaints. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
edit:
June 12th, @12:05PM
| No, 100 to 150 is a 50% increase.
150 - 100 = 50
100 / 50 = .5
.5 = 50%
or
100 + (50% * 100) = 150
100 + 50 = 150 |
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