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steve19726
bum
Premium
join:2002-01-17
Chicago, IL

Good luck..

All I have to say is.. good luck combating piracy.. others have tried and failed miserably!

Jeffrey
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Long Island
kudos:3
Reviews:
·voip.ms
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Re: Good luck..

said by steve19726:

All I have to say is.. good luck combating piracy.. others have tried and failed miserably!
I have to wonder whether the cost of trying to stop an unstoppable force is cheaper than the "losses" incurred from piracy itself.

Can anyone - for just the sake of conversation here - name any copy protection or piracy stopping method that has actually has any meaningful impact?

When I think of people trying to stop piracy, I think of a lot of wasted time and effort. Not to say that stopping piracy isn't a legitimate cause, but I just have to wonder where the law of diminishing returns starts - money spent to try and stop it vs money lost in not stopping it.
--
"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your foresight becomes a nimble vagrant."

[Ramblings] [RIP Millie 1993-2006]

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

1 recommendation

Re: Good luck..

said by Jeffrey:

Can anyone - for just the sake of conversation here - name any copy protection or piracy stopping method that has actually has any meaningful impact?
What about copy protections for video games, more specifically, the technology used to prevent copying of PS2, PSP, Xbox and Xbox 360 games. You don't hear about rampant piracy of this content.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

Jeffrey
Connoisseur of leisurely things
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Long Island
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Reviews:
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Re: Good luck..

said by pnh102:

said by Jeffrey:

Can anyone - for just the sake of conversation here - name any copy protection or piracy stopping method that has actually has any meaningful impact?
What about copy protections for video games, more specifically, the technology used to prevent copying of PS2, PSP, Xbox and Xbox 360 games. You don't hear about rampant piracy of this content.
Excellent point. I didn't think of that, but I will agree with that. I don't think your average person is going to mod his Xbox (and risk banning from XBL) just to save a few $. If the DVDs were able to be copied on the computer, and then inserted into the Xbox and work, I believe we'd be hearing a lot more about that. But, that is not the case.
--
"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your foresight becomes a nimble vagrant."

[Ramblings] [RIP Millie 1993-2006]

pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD

Re: Good luck..

I'm wondering what the game console manufacturers' secret is. I don't think it is technological, as everything you mentioned about other copy protection schemes has failed. Games certainly are not cheap either so that isn't it either.

Do the consoles use proprietary media? I know the PSP does but I do not know about what the others do.
--
Only SHATNER is Kirk.

Jeffrey
Connoisseur of leisurely things
Premium
join:2002-12-24
Long Island
kudos:3
Reviews:
·voip.ms
·Verizon FiOS
·Vonage

Re: Good luck..

said by pnh102:

I'm wondering what the game console manufacturers' secret is. I don't think it is technological, as everything you mentioned about other copy protection schemes has failed. Games certainly are not cheap either so that isn't it either.

Do the consoles use proprietary media? I know the PSP does but I do not know about what the others do.
I don't know. AFAIK, Xbox and Xbox 360 do not use proprietary media, but I could be wrong.
--
"When you get lost in your imaginatory vagueness, your foresight becomes a nimble vagrant."

[Ramblings] [RIP Millie 1993-2006]

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
said by pnh102:

Do the consoles use proprietary media?
I think they are all running on proprietary media now.

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
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Re: Good luck..

said by Maxo:

said by pnh102:

Do the consoles use proprietary media?
I think they are all running on proprietary media now.
The media isn't as proprietary as the code is. Which is why you can't read the game on a standard PC DVD drive. That said, the consoles have got a cash cow on their hands. Sure, people are going to find ways to mod their xboxs and Wiis. However, the implications of doing that can be staggering. I have a modded xbox, and while I play single player games all the time, I am still forced to buy legal copies to play online and bypass the mod chip. I have a friend who has a Wii and he modded it, but there aren't many multiplayer games over the internet right now on the wii so its pretty safe so far.

PC Software, Mac Software, music, and movies are all a lot easier to pirate due to the tools that are available. These consoles are very proprietary to the point where you can maybe find ways to boot to a linux kernel on them and dump the info of a disk to the hard drive of a PC over the network. However, there are no "cracks" you can use to bypass the copy protection. Its amazing how a closed system can provide so much protection.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal

ctceo
Premium
join:2001-04-26
South Bend, IN
Reviews:
·Virgin Mobile Br..
If I'm not mistaken, they use regular CD/DVD media, so It's not proprietary. They just make the discs by press, and not copy racks. The originals not only contain a mind blowing number of "bad sector's", they also employ 2 other copy protection schemes. One, they place some or all boot sectors/code outside the standard PC drives ability to access, and 2 they use a starting area, and ending area that can be abnormal sectors, and a starndard PC drive will read them as illegal sectors.

(I was going to finish up this post with some pics, but I have to look for the discs so I can scan one and point out what I'm talking about) I forgot where my Dreamcast (It's still thinking!) discs were stores as they are excellent examples. If I find one I'll post a sample pic, and any additional info I come up with.

nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
Premium
join:2002-10-04
Alexandria, VA
said by pnh102:

I'm wondering what the game console manufacturers' secret is.
Perhaps it's simply lack of enough desire to overcome it. Really, how many gamers do you know that want to even bother playing a crap game let alone pirating it just because the protection has been broken. I think the real key here is, people buy the games because it's generally worth the money (and, you can always trade the game in towards another one if you don't like it or you've tired of it). There aren't any restrictions that limit me to what console, TV, etc. I play on (e.g., I can take my 360 and plug it into any other compatible TV or I can take my game and play it on any 360).

Personally, I think this supports what a lot of people say in reference to music. They're willing to pay if they're getting good value for their money, particularly if the media is unencumbered.
--
Everyday, thousands of new cars are delivered to their new owners with poorly-selected radio station presets.

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 edit
said by pnh102:

said by Jeffrey:

Can anyone - for just the sake of conversation here - name any copy protection or piracy stopping method that has actually has any meaningful impact?
What about copy protections for video games, more specifically, the technology used to prevent copying of PS2, PSP, Xbox and Xbox 360 games. You don't hear about rampant piracy of this content.
I can copy any CD or DVD (even Blu-ray, but not HD DVD - yet) that you hand me.
YES! Even XBOX and PS2-3 games.
Now, you getting that console to accept the CD-R or DVD-R that has been burned... not my problem!

I can also show you *PAGES* of downloadable rips of console games.

Just because you may not know about it, doesn't mean it isn't happening...

As a side note:
It REALLY irks me to download a game that hasn't been tagged correctly and find out that it is an XBOX version and it no workie ona da computer.

They are out there.
Console users that have modded the boxes are uploading and downloading just like everyone else!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
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·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com

Re: Good luck..

said by dadkins:

said by pnh102:

said by Jeffrey:

Can anyone - for just the sake of conversation here - name any copy protection or piracy stopping method that has actually has any meaningful impact?
What about copy protections for video games, more specifically, the technology used to prevent copying of PS2, PSP, Xbox and Xbox 360 games. You don't hear about rampant piracy of this content.
I can copy any CD or DVD (even Blu-ray, but not HD DVD - yet) that you hand me.
YES! Even XBOX and PS2-3 games.
Now, you getting that console to accept the CD-R or DVD-R that has been burned... not my problem!

I can also show you *PAGES* of downloadable rips of console games.

Just because you may not know about it, doesn't mean it isn't happening...

As a side note:
It REALLY irks me to download a game that hasn't been tagged correctly and find out that it is an XBOX version and it no workie ona da computer.

They are out there.
Console users that have modded the boxes are uploading and downloading just like everyone else!
Oh yea! They are out there, but a lot of people don't do them because of the downsides of installing that mod chip that is required to play those burned games. Online gaming is a huge force right now. Nerfing your PS3 or Xbox with a mod chip to play these burned games only to find out you can't play with your friends is a tough pill to swallow. That and the installation is not something just anyone can do. Anybody can apply a crack to a file or a fix to remove the activation of a piece of software. Not everyone feels comfortable soldering a chip onto their board.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

1 recommendation

Re: Good luck..

"Mod Switch"... But that's for another day.

As for the Modding itself... some "places" will do it for you.

My main reason for posting was that THERE ARE ripped console games.
There is no protection out there that cannot be defeated!

*I* can copy 1:1 - protection and all!

So... the protection is actually still on the disc!

I just copied it too!
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera

MemphisPCGuy
Taking Care Business
Premium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN

1 edit
The Xbox 360 modders had 6-9 months of a free ride before the latest update started targeting them. And the loophole was the FIRMWARE in the DVD drive of all things. If that does not show you just how talented and resourceful the modders are nothing will
--
»www.memphispcguy.com

Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
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join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
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Re: Good luck..

said by MemphisPCGuy:

The Xbox 360 modders had 6-9 months of a free ride before the latest update started targeting them. And the loophole was the FIRMWARE in the DVD drive of all things. If that does not show you just how talented and resourceful the modders are nothing will
Oh yea, I saw the Youtube videos of the people modding their dvd firmwares. Unlike the PC software world though, the Xbox 360 updates are mandatory if you want to play online, and therefore, you can either nerf your console and play single player only with a modded firmware dvd drive, or you can just keep it the same as you bought it.

The copy protection in the console world is a lot more restrictive than the PC world thats for sure. Mainly because you can crack or hack a few pieces of software, and buy some legally and play online. With consoles, its an all or nothing situation.
--
My Domain
Nightfall's Hockey and Life Journal

dadkins
Can you do Blu?
Premium,MVM
join:2003-09-26
Hercules, CA
kudos:18

Re: Good luck..

Switches, they can be purchased at the local(?) electronice warehouse that can enable Mod - no Mod.

As for the manditory updates... uhm, yeah.
Several of the *computer* games that I play online, have denied access to the online servers until I applied the new 1.2? 1.3? patch on said game.

Is that not the same as what youi are saying about the consoles?

Same sh**, different platform.
--
Think outside the Fox... Opera
pbaldwin

join:2002-12-17
Dupo, IL

Re: Good luck..

System link games and xlink Kai offer multilayer experience without the hassle of XBL and is free. That being said no modded 360 here, playing legit games on XBL. Anything can be cracked / reverse engineered given time.

guitarzan
Premium
join:2004-05-04
Skytop, PA

1 recommendation

said by dadkins:

said by pnh102:

said by Jeffrey:

Can anyone - for just the sake of conversation here - name any copy protection or piracy stopping method that has actually has any meaningful impact?
What about copy protections for video games, more specifically, the technology used to prevent copying of PS2, PSP, Xbox and Xbox 360 games. You don't hear about rampant piracy of this content.
I can copy any CD or DVD (even Blu-ray, but not HD DVD - yet) that you hand me.
YES! Even XBOX and PS2-3 games.
Now, you getting that console to accept the CD-R or DVD-R that has been burned... not my problem!

I can also show you *PAGES* of downloadable rips of console games.

Just because you may not know about it, doesn't mean it isn't happening...

As a side note:
It REALLY irks me to download a game that hasn't been tagged correctly and find out that it is an XBOX version and it no workie ona da computer.

They are out there.
Console users that have modded the boxes are uploading and downloading just like everyone else!
Those DVD rips of console games play just as good as the original. Mods that allow one to "chip" the box, enables the console to believe the ROM or BIOS is on the burned copy, which enables bypassing of any protection completely. One example of many. »www.modchipnow.com/modbo-40-univ···160.html
--
Its the Democrats fault. In fact it is the Speaker of House Polosi fault. Everything is the Democrats fault. Everything. Just like Everything was the Republicans Fault when they were in power.
jp10558
Premium
join:2005-06-24
Willseyville, NY
It might be more underground, but PS2 and Xbox are certainly broken, heck, even via "softmods" so you don't void your warrenty. I don't know about the Xbox360 as I don't own one, and I'd guess the PS3 is too new (for a softmod anyway).

CrazyFingers

join:2003-10-01
Columbia, MO

2 edits

1 recommendation

Hey now, just because "the article is vague on specifics because the technology hasn't been designed or implemented yet..." doesn't mean all you dirty, dirty pirates aren't in real trouble.

"AT&T insists that once a technology is chosen, and their wookie scientists from beyond the moon build it, and the President of the United States of Hollywood unleashes his untamed hordes of rabid blind bassett hounds on your pathetic peg-legged-eye-patched asses, you'll all be sorry!!"


Y'all better get to repentin'. Ayup.
--
Burrow owl...burrow owl...

NormanS
I gave her time to steal my mind away
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San Jose, CA
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Re: Good luck..

said by CrazyFingers:

"AT&T insists that once a technology is chosen, and their wookie scientists from beyond the moon build it, and the President of the United States of Hollywood unleashes his untamed hordes of rabid blind bassett hounds on your pathetic peg-legged-eye-patched asses, you'll all be sorry!!"
Ankle-biting bassett hounds? They are way to short to do anything worse than leave tooth marks in the peg-legs of the pirates?
--
Norman
~Oh Lord, why have you come
~To Konnyu, with the Lion and the Drum

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
Yeah, this will not work. If I rip a CD and upload it to someone else, how are they going to know? I can rip it in various formats, saving it with different bitrates. I can then zip it and rename it to something like "How to cook four humans.txt". Are they going to compare every byte on their network to a possible match?
dentman42
Premium
join:2001-10-02
Columbus, OH

Re: Good luck..

That would still make it difficult to share en masse though. Any method that became a "standard" would be targeted. That would leave any new "standard" only usable for maybe a few months (then again, most torrents die in that time anyway).

Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL

Re: Good luck..

Bit torrent isn't the only way to pirate. The Kazaa-style apps are still popular.