No_Strings
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| reply to dogma
Re: The Economy ~ Foreclosures: No relief in sight ~
Hedge funds are used by large institutions to mitigate risk - foreign currency fluctuations being a primary use, but in essence it's placing a small bet with big odds on the visitors when you have a large bet with good odds on the home team.
Hedge fund managers are hardly preying on the weak and helpless. They are working with the largest, wealthiest companies on the planet - the kind you rail against.
Sometimes, I worry about you.
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dogma
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Boulder City, NV
| said by No_Strings  :Hedge fund managers are hardly preying on the weak and helpless. They are working with the largest, wealthiest companies on the planet - the kind you rail against. Sometimes, I worry about you. Sometimes I worry about myself.
Hedge fund managers sell packages like MBS's to large, very qualified investors - true. That's not what I am "railing" against.
Earlier in this same thread/topic someone said:
said by No_Strings :...State funds is just another way of saying someone's picking my pocket to help someone else without my consent. Welfare is just that, corporate or not. ...Why not reward low-income people more directly? Give them a home. No reason they should have to work/save like the rest of us. Or just give them cash. Better yet, give them a Prius and a Fastrak transponder. I hear there are some sweet deals on houses in Riverside & San Bernardino counties. It's exposing the welfare...for the wealthiest ..that I have a problem with. Why reward high-income people/corporations directly or indirectly. State funds or Federal funds? All of these funds come from taxpayers (when the dollar I earn today, only buys .75¢ in goods and services tomorrow, because the Fed has diluted the money supply in an "operation" to bailout the richest people, that is a tax).
With respect to these same "wealthy" investors:
said by U.K. Times--> »business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b···6735.ece :
Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.
These same investors and major fund managers don't even pay their fair share of taxes...but have their hats out looking for gub'munt bailouts and handouts. So at the end of the day, the majority of taxpayers, which can be argued describe the weaker and more helpless...comparatively, get taken advantage of.
We are very quick to deny that under privileged family a couple bucks from the till when they want subsidised housing:
said by No_Strings :My objection to subsidizing housing for someone earning $70K is the same as for someone earning $10 or even less. Affordable housing should be defined by market rates for income and property values, not by some government entity. ...then why defend the wealthy when their handouts/subsidies & government market intervention is an exponential magnitude of order in comparison.
Hopefully we are "railing" against the same injustice. |
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No_Strings
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| I should make what Buffett pays.
I don't think the Federal Reserve adjusting the money supply or interest rates in support of a strong economy (which is their mandate) is corporate welfare. Will well-positioned companies or individuals benefit more than others? Sure. Is it unAmerican to buy Euros as a hedge against a weakening dollar? Gold if you think the stock market is going to tank? Does any of it matter to a middle-class schmoe like me? No.
The low-income family is going to feel the pinch a lot sooner than fund managers or the execs who use their services for hedging. Let's say the Fed takes a hard line or Congress outlaws hedge funds. Who looses: The companies that hedge, the 7 or 8-figure earners that sold hedges or the service company that worked for them?
I'm not railing against anything. I don't begrudge fund managers their living or the people who empty their trash cans. Ain't a free market grand? |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA | the social issue isn't who gets paid up front, it's who has to pay in the end.
we'll see. |
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No_Strings
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Re: SoCal & The Economy ~ Financial Markets ~ Housing ~ Etc
Some good economic news, in case anyone should think it's all doom & gloom.
Sales of new homes increased a surprisingly strong 2.8% in July to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 870,000 units.
U.S.-made durable goods were up 5.9% last month, far exceeding the expected 1.5% gain.
B of A pumped $2B into Countrywide to shore up what they obviously think is a valuable business.
The Dow, S&P 500 and NASDAQ were all up for the day, week and year.
CapitalOne got out of the mortgage business entirely. (Now, if they'd only stop filling my mailbox with a dozen credit card offers a week.) |
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aztecnology
O Rly?
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join:2003-02-12
Murrieta, CA
 ·Verizon FIOS
| said by No_Strings :Some good economic news, in case anyone should think it's all doom & gloom. Sales of new homes increased a surprisingly strong 2.8% in July to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 870,000 units. U.S.-made durable goods were up 5.9% last month, far exceeding the expected 1.5% gain. B of A pumped $2B into Countrywide to shore up what they obviously think is a valuable business. The Dow, S&P 500 and NASDAQ were all up for the day, week and year. CapitalOne got out of the mortgage business entirely. (Now, if they'd only stop filling my mailbox with a dozen credit card offers a week.) How much downward adjustment will this see next month. Plus this happened before the strangulation in the credit markets, so there's no question that this won't stick.
The BofA move is interesting, since this allows CW to fund loans today, which are conforming, and held to the highest standards. But it's probably more to line themselves up for cherry picking if CW goes down.
Having said that, it appears that the bulls are gonna march back to 14k... |
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StanHaymarkt
join:2002-08-17
Falls Church, VA | CW also borrowed about 31B from other sources so I'm told. I have clients closing on a house the middle of Sept. and their loan for 1.25 mil is still going through with CW. No worries mate. |
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aztecnology
O Rly?
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1 edit | Probably ok if everything is already locked and docs submitted. I'd be interested to know if it goes through as planned or if there are any hiccups between now and then. |
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jinjimbob
Troy Mcclure
join:2001-11-13
| reply to No_Strings
said by No_Strings :CapitalOne got out of the mortgage business entirely. (Now, if they'd only stop filling my mailbox with a dozen credit card offers a week.) »https://www.optoutprescreen.com/opt_form.cgi , seems to work well for me. |
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dogma
Premium
join:2002-08-15
Boulder City, NV
| reply to aztecnology
Glut of homes hits 16-year high
Sales slip but supply of homes on the market jumps to 9.6 months, pushing prices down for 12th straight month.
said by MoneyMag--> »money.cnn.com/2007/08/27/news/ec···?cnn=yes :
Not only did sales slip but the number of homes for sale jumped 5.1 percent, the group said, meaning there is now a 9.6-month supply of homes for sale, up from 9.1-months in the June reading. It was the biggest supply of homes by that measure since October 1991.
It's unlikely that the July report indicates that the worst is over for the battered housing market.
said by No_Strings :Some good economic news, in case anyone should think it's all doom & gloom. Sales of new homes increased a surprisingly strong 2.8% in July to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 870,000 units. I think those numbers are a rise vs. the prior Month, but over 10% less than same period last year. The 2.8% "rate" is a candy-coated stat...sounds sweet, but is full of financial cavities:
said by MoneyMag :
Still, the report comes after Friday's government reading that showed new homes selling at a better-than-expected pace. But both new and existing home sales are well below year-ago levels, and that downturn, coupled with weaker prices, has hurt...
Nope...still slow evolving gloom & doom. At least the CEO of Countrywide fessed up to it as well:
said by MSNBC--> »www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20405745/ :
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 12:33 p.m. PT Aug 23, 2007
Calling the current credit crunch “one of the greatest panics I've ever seen in 55 years of financial services,” Countrywide Financial CEO Angelo Mozilo said Thursday that the ongoing housing slump will likely push the U.S. economy into recession.
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Kibbles
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Mission Viejo, CA
| I wonder do those sales figures show how many of the sales were houses that were foreclosed,REO or about to be foreclosed?
In this area I am seeing a lot of homes for sale at 10-25% off the original asking price...even rentals are dropping in price...I found a house to lease that was $2,300.00..but 1 month later they are down to $2,000.00 and the total move in cost is $2,750.00  |
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dogma
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Boulder City, NV
| At this point we are beating a dead horse:
said by From the L.A. Times today--> »www.latimes.com/news/printeditio···rontpage :
Worst August for home sales in 15 years - Prices drop in most Southland ZIP Codes, and the number of sales is the lowest in 15 years for that month.
"Sales for the month plunged 36% from a year earlier. What's more, 71% of the Southland's ZIP Codes showed price declines, according to figures released Wednesday by DataQuick Information Systems."
"In recent years, the housing market had been propped up by the widespread use of home loans with low introductory teaser rates -- allowing prices to outpace income growth, he said. But with those easy-credit loans all but gone, values are coming back into balance.
"People just don't have the income to support these prices except with crazy mortgages -- and now the mortgage money is going away, and people are walking away from their homes," Thornberg said.
Nearly 9% of the homes sold last month were foreclosure properties, DataQuick reported, up from 2.2% a year earlier."
Tip of the iceberg IMO. O.C. has lost 100,000 "real estate finance" jobs in the past 9 months. How are these people (if they own homes) going to afford them? Are there 100,000 new jobs...at the same pay...waiting for them?
No need to add much more to this conversation. I will stick by my estimate of 60% - 70% loss in home value from the highs over the next 3-5 years. Should we add to the cake mix a fairly massive recession during that time as well? |
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jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA
| maybe, but there's something fishy with the 100,000 jobs lost figure. i don't buy it. or, i don't buy that they were anything more than mcjobs, and fast food always has openings. my sister is in the consumer banking industry, though she's not in a loan department. i'll ask her if she's seeing real strife on that side...
or, we can wait for "team coverage". |
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dogma
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Boulder City, NV
| 
Ron Burgundy, KDSLr Anchor |
said by jig :or, we can wait for "team coverage". Per your request; Ron Burgundy, KDSLr reporting:
Newswire Anaheim:
Washington Mutual to cut 1,000 jobs, close two divisions
September 13th, 2007
Washington Mutual Inc. is closing two divisions [one in Anaheim, California] that financed mortgage companies and bought loans from other lenders and is cutting about 1,000 jobs, according to the Los Angeles Times.
This just in:
Countrywide’s stock has fallen 60 percent this year and the company announced plans to lay off as many as 12,000 employees or 20 percent of its workforce.
More "breaking" Countrywide news:
Countrywide job cuts deepen...
The troubled mortgage lender said it will hand out an additional 900 more pink slips... (wait, they are based in Calabasas, Calif.)
In other news:
September 10, 2007 IndyMac Bancorp Inc. has said that it plans to eliminate as many as 1,000 jobs and slash its dividend by half amid challenging conditions in the mortgage and housing markets (dayum, they are in Pasadena)
Also:
Option One to cut 575 jobs
H&R Block said today it will cut 575 jobs, or more than 20 percent of staff, at its Irvine-based subprime unit Option One Mortgage Corp.
...and finally:
SANTA ANA-ANAHEIM-IRVINE METROPOLITAN DIVISION
(ORANGE COUNTY)
Orange County declines by 5,200 jobs over the month; adds 2,900 jobs over the year
The unemployment rate in Orange County was 4.1 (revised to 4.9) percent in July 2007, up from 3.9 percent in
June 2007, and above the year-ago estimate of 3.8 percent
...This has been Ron Burgundy, KDSLr team eyewitness news-u-can-use, signing off.
Some of the above are based outside of the O.C., but for a more accurate body count of the O.C. mortgage industry carnage please see: »www.ocregister.com/ocregister/mo···0495.php
These are just the "major" players. The trickle down effect is an order of magnitude considering all the RE Agents/loan brokers/support staff/etc. And what about the folks in construction?? (Good for me, as last year I put out a request for construction bid and got zero respondents, this week, 60 respondents so far) |
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Lovehound
join:2005-08-18
Northridge, CA | Who do we have to thank for this substandard loan and housing glut crisis? The idiot who decided to goose the economy by lowering interest rates and encouraging people to buy homes they couldn't afford? Which government idiot did this? |
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No_Strings
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| Blame a lack of government oversight of the finance industry, greedy loan sharks, speculative investors, a wild & crazy Federal Reserve ... But whatever you do, don't blame people who spent more than they had and lived beyond their means because they were sitting on a fat paper profit. |
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Lovehound
join:2005-08-18
Northridge, CA
2 edits | said by No_Strings :But whatever you do, don't blame people who spent more than they had and lived beyond their means because they were sitting on a fat paper profit. Don't blame people who can't understand and manage their own personal finances? I can't accept that. It doesn't take a genius to recognize smoke and mirror finances. I'm not saying they are solely responsible, but they bear a large share of the blame. (IMO)
The real problem however is the financial institutions and government who allowed this to happen, and ended up hurting people with conservative finances, like you and I. |
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No_Strings
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Lovehound
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Northridge, CA | You replied while I was editing... |
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No_Strings
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1 edit | No, you were editing while I was replying.
My "Don't blame the people" was sarcasm.
I don't think a lender who offers a legal product can be faulted any more than you can blame RJ Reynolds for your lung cancer or blame Frito-Lay for your fat ass.
If you're stupid enough to borrow more than you can afford to pay back or structure a personal finance house of cards that falls when the wind blows, don't blame someone else.
I know there are lots of people who think otherwise, who would sue McDonalds and tobacco companies off the planet, but I'm one of those loony personal responsibility types. We're very much out of vogue these days. |
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