spell it out
@mcleodusa.net
 from:
Ahrenl 
| reply to pnh102
Re: Utopia In The Hole
Judging from your posts I can only assume that you have misunderstood the entire project, concept, cost and function of the utopia network.
Do you have something fundamentally against paying less for 15mbit symmetrical internet than what comcast delivers to you today? And not only that but being able to decide between several for profit non government companies on who best will serve you to get your money? Don't like your isp on utopia?? change it. Don't like your cable isp?? you're screwed!!
You claim the taxpayers shouldn't be on the hook for something like this. If you've ever studied economics, the taxpayers are on the hook for EVERYTHING in some way or another. If you think comcast upgrading to fiber throughout your city/state wouldn't cost you as a taxpayer in some way or another you'd be crazy. Plus the taxpayers voted utopia in anyways knowing the risk. And Utah has ran a millions of dollars a year budget surplus for the last few years anyways.
As far as the savings i don't know how i can spell it out more clearly.
Potential Cost 5-10 per month per household that would likely come as property tax increase (but only if utopia loses solvency the network is worth nothing and taxpayers have to pay the entire bonds)
Confirmed Savings 15+ dollars a month in internet alone.
That is 30-40 vs 45-55 depending on who your isp and plan is. And even if you dont get any utopia services you still save money because comcast charges 29.99 in utopia areas for their fastest speeds in utah (currently 8/756).
But wait there's more.
My business pays in the realm of 1400 dollars a month for two T1 lines giving about 3mbit symmetrical speeds. If I was in utopia land I could get their business services with 30mbit symmetrical speeds for 145 dollars a month. hmm ten times more speed for 10 times less money. Heck I'd even donate the entire cost difference to the "taxes" you are so worried about and just keep the 30/30 for 1400 if I could.
And finally please never never never call utopia an isp, it is not. If your internet goes down you call at&t or xmission or whomever your isp is. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
 ·Comcast
| reply to once again
said by once again :
It has been calculated that worst case scenario (network is total loss) cost to tax payers is between 5-10 dollars a month (per household). Do you enjoy spending 5-10 dollars a month if you don't need to? I don't. This estimate is patently ridiculous anyway, given how much money it costs just to run cable.
said by once again :
Maybe you realized this or maybe you didn't, comcast costs 15 dollars month less in utopia areas.
But you're paying more in taxes to fund utopia, so where is the savings?
said by once again :
Even if they never use a utopia service they will save money. You started your post by claiming that utopia costs each taxpayer 5-10 dollars more a month. How can you claim to save any money if you have to spend more money?
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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once again
@mcleodusa.net
from:
plk
| reply to pnh102
I have to post this every single time.
It has been calculated that worst case scenario (network is total loss) cost to tax payers is between 5-10 dollars a month (per household).
Maybe you realized this or maybe you didn't, comcast costs 15 dollars month less in utopia areas.
The main point is that no matter what happens with the build out the taxpayer will likely save more money in the long run due to lower prices and increased competition. Even if they never use a utopia service they will save money.
As an aside. I run a counter-strike source server and have dozens of players that come in with a ping of 5. Guess what they are on??? yep, utopia (and iprovo) |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to rahlquist
said by rahlquist :While technically true keep in mind that in the case of a NEW customer these costs are going to happen anyway when they hook them up to sewer, water, cable, phone, and in some cases underground power. True, true. I know that a lot of local governments impose surcharges on new developments to cover these costs (these actually are going up where I live). That isn't unreasonable, as existing users of these services should not have to pay a rate hike to cover the costs of adding new users.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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rahlquist
Redeye
join:2001-10-30
Villa Rica, GA
| reply to pnh102
said by pnh102 : Each additional customer requires that someone dig a trench, run cable that also needs to be purchased, install equipment that has to be maintained and pay more people to maintain said equipment. While technically true keep in mind that in the case of a NEW customer these costs are going to happen anyway when they hook them up to sewer, water, cable, phone, and in some cases underground power.
Basically, the more customers they add, the more money they will lose. Now granted, over time, they may make enough to break even, but when I see that they've spent $100 million to wire up a few cities, that just seems like a very large economic hump to get over.
No argument there, it is a large hump but some creativity could help them.
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Fed Up With Stupidity?
Patentlystupid.com |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TScheisskopf
said by TScheisskopf :Buildout. Economies of Scale. Growth of customer base. Economies of scale only work when the cost of adding additional customers is marginal. In the case of a broadband rollout, this is not the case. Each additional customer requires that someone dig a trench, run cable that also needs to be purchased, install equipment that has to be maintained and pay more people to maintain said equipment.
Basically, the more customers they add, the more money they will lose. Now granted, over time, they may make enough to break even, but when I see that they've spent $100 million to wire up a few cities, that just seems like a very large economic hump to get over.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| reply to pnh102
Buildout. Economies of Scale. Growth of customer base.
Econ 101.
And the time is over for the "Broadband is not vital infrastructure" argumet to have any credibility. If private industry's practices are not successful in meeting the needs of citizens, then it is proper and appropriate for government to step in, or risk being a "Third-World Economic Climate". |
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