S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
 ·Comcast
| reply to ColorBASIC
Re: Union doesn't give a crap about the customers
It didn't take long.....mention a union and have some jamoke bash it with with what he or she hears on talk radio. Know this; if it wasn't for the underlying threat of collective bargaining, no corporation would voluntarilly offer the benefits that they do. Not to mention, if you get rid of the union, it will be illegal aliens or Z-Visa "guest workers" getting these jobs rather than the US citizen.
We're already heading towards a Walmart society that sells nothing but crap made from China. Why push us over? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
2 edits | Thanks for making my point.
I don't give a crap about the Union getting more dough for the membership...just these stupid astroturf-like smokescreens. The Union doesn't give two squits of piss about the customers.
They should just say they don't believe they can get a good deal for the workers if they're dealing with FairPoint versus a bigger company instead of these red herrings.
Meanwhile if you don't like Wal*Mart, don't shop there.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
 ·Sprint Broadband D..
| reply to S_engineer
Don't mind them. Years of ingrained reactions from watching Billo and then practicing His Lofty Words in front of the mirror have left them incapable of any other reaction.
Showing them the good things that unions have done, both for citizens in the workplace and in the communities at large just doesn't register at all.
They hate unions because The High Priests of Loofah have told them to hate them. I mean, how dare ANYONE stand up for consumers, if it has the merest hint of detriment to our lords, masters and betters, the corporations?  |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| reply to ColorBASIC
Actually your point is ill-informed. A union member has to go through an apprenticeship (at a lower wage) where he or she learns every facet of that particular trade. This make the worker a more efficient, better trained technician than that of worker with no or limited training. This should be reflected in the network. Now even you can comprehend this.
Why don't you ask the workers what FairPoint is neglecting to give them! |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Nice troll. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL | VICIUOS COMEBACK.....STOP IT
mCfLY! |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
4 edits | Come on. Read the thread instead of going 'shields up' for the Union bosses and running off on these off-topic attempts to argue the merits of union members.
No one gives a crap about union member training as we see in the case of FiOS, non-union west coast installs going faster than east coast union installs. This is about the union boss smokescreen...similar to the one last week about Verizon neglecting its copper.
The union doesn't want to deal with FairPoint because they won't be able to cut as good a deals as they could with a larger company like Verizon. Anyone with a brain can see that.
They should just SAY that instead of wasting everyone's time with all the bullcrap. The union doesn't give a damn about the customers, nor should they. They represent the union membership.
And before getting all bent, realize that not all criticism of a union is directed at union members.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
| my experiences with union as a past union member is that all they care is to protect the lazy a** members. I had to work my b** off because the lazy a** union has some idiot negotiations that only benefit the lazy people. Sure it give me good benefits but the other as**le that worked 1/5 of his time had the same benefits and it was hard for mngmt to get rid of him. So I have no sympathy for what ever the union says.
Further, the union role is to seek for the benefits of its members and as far as I know the customers are not unionized |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA | Again, this has ZERO to do with union membership. |
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S_engineer
join:2007-05-16
Chicago, IL
·Comcast
| fist of all, union membership relies on a good product, which is good for the consumer. The union knows this because without a decent product, it's dead. This is self preservation.
Second, most corps. try to eliminate union members because this is they're greatest expense. A lower waged worker will give them a greater profit margin. This is never filtered down to the consumer. It is only reflected in
8 digit paychecks to board members. Once the union members are gone, you better believe they'll be gunning for the rest!
Look at what ATT did here in the midwest, slashed the workforce by roughly 1/3rd. Now they're offering IPTV, VOIP, and internet. How can I truly believe this network will not fail at multiple juctures with that much less staff to deal with the added workload.
Finally, unions like non-union entities have lazy people.
All you have to do to find anti union and pro union laziness is look at congress.\
and CB, it what you whos gut reaction was to bash union bosses from the getgo! |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TScheisskopf
said by TScheisskopf  :I mean, how dare ANYONE stand up for consumers ... Why do you assume a union stands up for consumers? A union's job is to stand up for its membership, just like a business' job is to stand up for its shareholders.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| Last I looked, union members ARE consumers. Also, the points they raise are valid parts of the debate for ALL consumers and would never be raised if their voices weren't out there.
Surely, the corporations are not going to catch a bad case of the honests and issue a press release that says "Oh, and our copper plants are falling apart like a cheap suit in a spin cycle, because we have cut staff and focused all our investment away from maintenance".
No, the other folks on the front lines, the unions, are gonna do that, and we are better off for it. Even if what they are saying is half-true, we need to know it, for WE are the ones paying the nut. |
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BernieLyons
join:2004-02-28
Paramus, NJ
| reply to ColorBASIC
Unfortunately, the communications customer has no other choice in Comm. suppliers, whereas with Walmart you have many other choices.
As for anti union, consider the source, a Mac user, and we all know they are mad at the world because they will always be No. 2 |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| reply to TScheisskopf
What I don't get is why is the union having a cow over what is going on now with broadband and services that Fairpoint won't/can't offer. VZ doesn't offer them now so now that they want to sell the customers to someone who wants them they think they can get them? Fairpoint and VZ needs to tell the Unions to take a hike and get on with business. |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| What it boils down to, when you take a look at the history of broadband in the United States since the passage of the Telecommunications Deregulation Act, is a nearly unbroken string of promises. If you look at what the incumbents promised in what would be delivered, if they were only deregulated, and what they have delivered, you will notice that they lied like rocks in congress.They haven't delivered what they promised and they had no intention of doing so.
Someone has to hold the feet of these companies to a white-hot fire and if one of those somebodies is the unions? Great. May their numbers only increase and multiply.
Why people here think that large companies can do no wrong and should only be allowed to do anything they damn well please is a puzzlement to me, especially when you consider the fact that the number one criminal class in the US is corporations. They break far more laws, every year, then any other class. They are the purest form of Amorality. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| The thing is though; the unions only started bitching about this since VZ announced they are selling to Fairpoint. Other wise you never heard a damn thing from the Unions.
I'm not a fan of VZ in anyway; I could careless what they do or even care if they were in business tomorrow; but VZ needs to stand up to them and tell them to take a hike. The unions only care bought their damn dues.
My mom was a member of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union and they didnt do shit for her. She was illegally fired by the company she worked for and then had to deal with the union for 6 months trying to fight for her job back. they did shit for her. I stood up to the damn company told them to give an answer or face the damn Labor board and the court for contract breach. They answered in 2hours once i said court. The union couldn't figure out why they couldnt get anything. Unions suck and only protect their damn $$$$.
VZ just tell them to take a damn hike sign the damn paper work with Fairpoint and get the FCC to pass this through like anything else. |
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TScheisskopf
World News Trust
join:2005-02-13
Belvidere, NJ
·Sprint Broadband D..
| Look, there ARE terrible locals and terrible unions out there. I agree. But it is the job of the membership to deal with that. They elect the officers of their locals and the international. If those officers are not doing the job for them, they need to vote the bums out.
But on balance, unions have done a lot more good for workers then bad.
I was talking to a guy today, who works for a car dealership. They decertified the union at the dealership, after the owner sold them a bill of goods. As soon as the decert took place, the owner cut pay and benefits across the board. They no longer had a union and there was no recourse.
They made their bed and now they get to lie in it. |
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hottboiinnc
ME
join:2003-10-15
Cleveland, OH
·Time Warner Cable
·buckeye cable
| But what the Union is doing to VZ and Fairpoint is not needed. The Union isn't gonna do shit to VZ. It's just business as usual their and money spent at the FCC and every where else to get this deal finalized and done with. The Union's just don't want to work with a smaller company and do not like what Fairpoint has to say about offering anything different so they decide to run their mouths. Nothing is changing as far as services are concerned Fairpoint has already said that. Their just not expanding DSL into areas where they're unable to do it.
I'm all for VZ and Fairpoint on this one. |
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