DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Hosting a WiFi hotspot?
I'm interested in hearing end-user feedback and thoughts on hosting WiFi. We're experimenting with a solution that would allow customers to easily and securely host WiFi for free use by others, bandwidth capped so that it doesn't use much of your bandwidth. The free users would have an ad bar displayed in their browser, and there would be some revenue shared as credits to your DSL bill.
Any thoughts, concerns, ideas? What would it take to motivate you to participate? Are you interested? What worries would you have about this? Does it interest or excite you? Please, I'd love to hear things like "I'd participate if ...." type responses, or "I wouldn't participate because ...."
Thanks for any feedback!
-Dane |
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pikamagi
join:2000-12-14
Fort Collins, CO
 ·SONIC.NET
| I would host a hotspot if I could conveniently isolate the traffic from the rest of my network. It would also be extremely helpful if the device had longer range of broadcast or an antenna that could be used to to cast a wider net.
I've gone to enough places and wished I had WiFi access that I could legitimately use. I would participate if only to ease this burden on other folks. |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Cool, thanks for your thoughts. Both of these items have been included. LAN isolation is part of the config, so you don't need to worry about your systems seeing traffic from the WiFi side.
Also, the radio has better than average output - BUT, the cool part is that it forms a mesh with other radios. So, you could put on at the front of the house, one at the back, one in the detached garage, the granny unit - the neighbor's house - etc. Each unit repeats the signal onward, growing the mesh.
-Dane |
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JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·SONIC.NET
| reply to DaneJasper
Uh... I am hosting a hotspot, the old style one.
I would not mind at all continuing doing so in whatever form it takes. It would be nice if it didn't burn one of my 8 IP addresses, I think I'm now using 6 or 7 of em now (had no idea I would end up using so many of em!) but I can live with it.
I never get much traffic on mine, but I did already do the isolation/bandwidth capping myself, so if you're going to take over the bandwidth capping that would be fine as well.
I never did have a concern about security - the downside is minimal for most configurations - no different then anything else on 'the internet' as it looks the same to the rest of my out-facing machines.
So yep, count me in. A monthly base credit would actually be more incentive for me (doesn't have to be a ton of money - a buck or so is plenty - covers electricity and helps defray the cost of the Wireless gateway) vs actual use credit - and would simplify your accounting maybe...
--
My place : »www.schettino.us |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Thanks for the feedback John. This new solution would be far easier to use and would offer free access, so it might attract a lot more actual use - a key metric.
I do like the "everyone shares the same credit" concept. It means that those in high traffic (living above a coffee shop) and low traffic (on an acre in the country) both are encouraged to deploy and to promote use of the network.
What are your thoughts on equipment cost? The new gear plugs in to anything which offers an IP via DHCP, so there's no other config, and you can put it behind a router or a switch (if you have multiple IPs from us). The equipment costs us $49 today. As a host, what are your thoughts on buying this gear?
-Dane |
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JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·SONIC.NET
| Is it optional to buy it? I went out and bought a $15 802.11b gateway just for the hotspot when I set mine up a few years ago.
One way to do it "cost free" to those deploying it is to give it to them, then let them work it off via the usage payment - basically they'd get no benefit (but also have no cost) until they broke even on the kickback for usage (however that's payed out...)
I guess if I had a reasonable expectation to break even in a year or less I'd still be willing to fork out the $$ for it myself... but it sound like we have to use the one you're providing either way?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Ya, that's a good idea. Basically, the units cost us $49, so we were thinking of offering them at a subsidized price point, perhaps somewhere between $25 and $39. For customers in key (downtown) locations, perhaps we'd go even deeper than this, if we think they'll get some significant use.
It's an interesting idea to offset the cost with the credit, but it might be a bit of a task to keep track. 
-Dane |
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Djdeadly
join:2000-11-03
San Jose, CA
·SONIC.NET
| reply to DaneJasper
Looks like your using Meraki hardware.
I'd be interested, We are located 1 block from the SJSU campus with tons of students during the school. Yet the signal is too poor to reach over here so having some access points setup around here would be good but I'm not sure how you would compete with metrofi here. They offer free net access but the service is slow and the banner ad sucks. I would think of using a captive banner every couple minutes because I hate seeing that iframe when browsing. Another thing that would be nice is the option to add our own ad campaigns in something like openads. |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Yes, we're considering Meraki as a potential solution. The goal is to work together with many customers to create a large mesh, with everyone sharing the revenue upside when it's used.
How fast is the Metrofi service, and how large is their advertisement banner space?
We're thinking of less than 1Mbps service for free, with an ad bar which would be the same shape, size and location as the "pop-up blocked" or "active-x script blocked" bar that you'll see come up now and then in most browsers. The ad bar displays an ad, and also has a local search input window that does a google search with the lat/long of the nearest AP pre-loaded.
-Dane |
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Djdeadly
join:2000-11-03
San Jose, CA | I'll get you the banner size and speed when i get in range of the signal hopefully later on today. |
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bobrk
1 down, 2 to go, to get to 60
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
·SONIC.NET
| reply to DaneJasper
I'd go for it, too. I used to host one back when I had static ip service, but I couldn't afford that after I got laid off. I might consider going back on now that I've been working, but the only thing is, I'm in a residential neighborhood further away from SJSU than Djdeadly  and I doubt that it would get much traffic. I just did it for the fun of it before, and I don't think any other Sonic customers were in the area because nobody ever logged on.
I have my own equipment for this so I wouldn't be interested in paying for it.
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk |
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guhuna
The Raiders SUCK Should move back to LA
Premium
join:2001-03-31
Discovery Bay, CA | Same here, when I had mine setup no one logged into it. I had 2 dish type antennas pointing outside my window yet no one ever connected.
I have my own equipment also just for the hotspot. |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Our challenge is that this is a mesh network - so it requires a specific bit of hardware and firmware. There ARE some folks hacking this OS/software into other hardware, but it's complex and not very well supported.
So - one issue may be that customers already have APs, and would like to offer access but cannot become part of the mesh network. We'll keep that in mind.
The benefits of the Meraki hardware are of course the mesh, plus security and authentication. It also promises to provide tiers of access, free bandwidth limited access which is ad supported as well as faster access which might be WPA authenticated.
The security portion is important - an open AP can be a magnet for abuse, and having logs showing who used what IP and when is very useful when the authorities come knocking. In other words, being able to prove that you, the DSL end-user who is hosting the gear was NOT the person who did the bad thing saves an awful lot of explaining.
-Dane |
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guhuna
The Raiders SUCK Should move back to LA
Premium
join:2001-03-31
Discovery Bay, CA
·Covad Communications
·SONIC.NET
·PAXIO
·Pacific Bell - SBC
| said by DaneJasper : There ARE some folks hacking this OS/software into other hardware, but it's complex and not very well supported. -Dane I'd like to know a little bit more on that subject.  I have 3 different wireless A/P's I can fool around with. One linky one Netgear and one that's literally homemade that runs DD-WRT. |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| I might have it backwards - you can hack the Meraki to run OpenWRT, but I'm not sure if the Meraki OS will run on other hardware.
»wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/Har···aki/Mini
-Dane |
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veloslave
Geek For God
Premium
join:2003-07-11
Pleasant Hill, CA
·SONIC.NET
| reply to DaneJasper
If I were located somewhere near the downtown I would be all over it... but alas I am in a residential neighborhood and I doubt my neighbors would use it and I wouldn't want to advertise in any way so people would drive here for a connection.
I keep dreaming of a 20 or 50 Mb connection that I can share with some neighbors... maybe even subsidize my IP... ah someday 
I like the idea of the banner ad revenue... it really seems like a great idea for a good location.
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber! |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| You might be surprised by the usage. We've found that most units do get some use, despite being in residential areas and completely un-marked, so to speak. It will vary based upon density of the area - nodes in apartments seem to get one to two daily users, and we just turned up two nodes in a duplex in San Francisco that are getting 10 users per day!
That said, obviously having density is good - if it's city wide, you can promote it city-wide, etc. This requires a lot of participants, which we're not likely to get in very many locations outside of Sonoma County and San Francisco perhaps.
That said, we DO want to encourage everyone to participate, so the idea is a banner ad revenue share for the entire network, despite the fact that your particular site might get less (or no) use in a given month. If the network earns $5,000 in a month, and there are 1000 hosts, the concept is for us to share evenly, 50% split, then split between all of the hosts. This would, in this example, result in a credit of $2.50 toward your service - regardless of actual use of the access point.
Hopefully this fosters a community feeling, encourages many folks to deploy, and encourages people to encourage others to use the network as well.
-Dane |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| reply to DaneJasper
FYI folks, our test network is slowly growing, if you're interested in a peek, here's three different views of the network:
»public.meraki.net/network/Sonic.netWiFi
»public.meraki.net/network/Sonic.netWiFi/map
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi
-Dane |
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bobrk
1 down, 2 to go, to get to 60
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA | First two links are down at this time. |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs: | Working okay for me, FYI.
-Dane |
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