bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
 ·SONIC.NET
| reply to DaneJasper
Re: Financial Liability is still my concern
Topology looks like this:
DSL modem
|
V
ethernet switch -> meraki
|
V
router
|
V
my stuff
I think you guys will have to reconfigure the Meraki somehow, since it used to be behind my router.
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| reply to bobrk
said by bobrk  :So I hooked up the Meraki to the switch along with the modem and the router, and now the Meraki is not registering on the router health page. I'm not sure if changing the topology did it, but just the same, it's not working. I can see it in the wireless list as "Sonic.net Open WiFi-scanning". Give Jason Kane a call or email - you might need more IPs. jkane@corp.sonic.net, or 707-522-1000 and ask for him by name.
-Dane |
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bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA | Ok, will do. |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
1 edit | reply to DaneJasper
Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?
I got mine set up today without much difficulty, am using my wired Ethernet myself now, but (assuming this is accurate) have a couple of people currently using the open WiFi side:
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi
One question -- my Airport sporadically shows availability of a 'secured high speed' Sonic connection that wants a login -- doesn't like my usual Sonic login/password, and doesn't always even appear as available. I'm guessing this is something Sonic will let me use? If so how?
I did get a switch in the box and tech support confirmed the setup
Modem--switch--wireless
................\-router--computer
....................\-computer
Service from the modem divides at the switch, one line going to the wireless point and the other line going to my router, and so my router serves only my computers.
Managed to get very confused briefly because I'd only gotten one IP assigned originally; figured that out when I couldn't keep both the wireless and my wired Ethernet connection live at the same time. Oh, duh.
Found User Tools and I clicked the box to change to four IP numbers there and my router dropped off the network (of course, duh again, because a new base IP got automagically assigned along with the three added numbers, I didn't quite anticipate that would happen without telling me the new number somehow).
Luckily the wireless was working or I'd have had to use the telephone and say "now who am I?"
Got the new IP number off User Tools, put that into my router, saved the settings, and so recovered my Ethernet connection.
That seems to be all there is to it.
A workflow specifying every little step would help, with reminders of the obvious. Like "You need to choose four or eight IP numbers; if you only had one til now, we don't add new IP numbers, we assign a whole new set, and you'll have to find out what it is and put that into your router to get connection back because we'll drop you cold when you click yes to change from one to four ..."
Now of course I'm wondering who's using it! -- it's none of my business, of course --this equipment is on Sonic's side, no reason I should have any information about who's using it and I appreciate the separation is wise.
But -- besides going out and putting one of the stickers near the front steps on a stick so people can identify the house -- is there any other info available beyond this?
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| Sounds like you got it all set up, nice work! Sorry about the lack of notice on the need to move to four IPs - we were supposed to email you that info before the gear shipped.
As for more data - no, that's about all we can provide, and it's pretty much the extent of what we see on our side too. Good to see that it's getting a bit of use!
-Dane |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
2 edits | How about the total number shown for my site on the map:
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi
-- is that including me, as I got set up, under my old and new IP numbers, plus one other user? Or three users besides me? See question below, I think I'm using the public bandwidth right now, not wireless set aside for me personally.
Sonic.net Open WiFi shows up and connects under AirPort, I assume that's the public face of the Meraki, it works for me to, no obvious difference from connecting via Ethernet.
Question -- what is the apparently related AirPort network detected (sometimes, intermittent, showing up in the same pulldown menu)? It is named "Sonic.net Member Secure Hi-Speed" --- and it gives a login prompt, and wants a password I don't have.
Is this something you send out later? |
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bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
·SONIC.NET
| Yeah, some time after your Meraki is plugged in, two networks show up, the free one, that may someday have advertising, and a secure one that anyone with a Sonic account can log into. Pretty cool if you ask me.
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk |
|
DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs: | ..but we don't have the secure one working yet, sorry. =)
-Dane |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| No problem, just curious. And the netequality.net little green dot for my location now shows "4" users, whatever that number means. I'm guessing unique hardware connecting?
Guess I should pull out the Powerbook and go take a walk around the neighborhood and see how far it reaches in the window location.
Any progress on outdoor units? |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| The number is generally the number of unique MAC addresses which have associated in the last 24 hours.
We are pushing all of our outdoor gear in the near term toward our pole top deployments in Santa Rosa and Petaluma. Once those are up and running, we'll make some decisions about where to go next.
-Dane |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA | OK. I'd pay in advance to beat a price increase (grin).
Hey, can these gadgets mesh computers together in the _absence_ of a DSL signal, just one to another? |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| No, they're just an Internet access solution - they require the Internet to configure, and they don't allow devices on the LAN to see each other.
They are a really nice whole house Internet access solution though, two or three cover a huge area.
-Dane |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| Still 4 users, passing 200kbytes at about the 48 hour mark.
Doesn't seem a lot, but others are smaller.
And I"m already thinking how handy it would be to pull over in Ukiah and check my email, since there's one customer on the map there (showing zero users, though, right now). |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs: | Ya, and it gets real interesting when you start getting a lot of these out there. In Santa Rosa and Petaluma, we're poised to deploy some pretty large numbers of units.
-Dane |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| Is there a handy comparison anywhere of the FON system and the, whatever we're calling this one? I'm not quite sure if Sonic's signed up with something larger that Meraki is doing, or is using Meraki hardware independent of whatever Meraki does next (since I gather they're a bit twitchy lately).
I'd been about to get one of the FON things going here until Sonic's offer came along.
And when I look at the online maps, there are dozens of FON sites around me within a few miles.
Can the two coexist, if I put a FON box on the switch also? |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| Another off-the-wall question
I notice the FON people offer an external antenna with what looks like a standard connection -- is anything like that available for the Sonic/Meraki devices? It'd be a lot easier to run an antenna wire outside than to put the whole box outside, and I know I can get lightning protectors for antenna cable as used by ham radio operators, so they ought to be available for this band.
(I am a ham operator, but haven't put up an antenna on my house yet for that use either, so am looking at how much I can do at one time with one hole in the wall and one pole.) |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| said by ankh :Another off-the-wall question I notice the FON people offer an external antenna with what looks like a standard connection -- is anything like that available for the Sonic/Meraki devices? It'd be a lot easier to run an antenna wire outside than to put the whole box outside, and I know I can get lightning protectors for antenna cable as used by ham radio operators, so they ought to be available for this band. (I am a ham operator, but haven't put up an antenna on my house yet for that use either, so am looking at how much I can do at one time with one hole in the wall and one pole.) Generally we've found that a weatherized enclosure for a radio with a direct antenna connection is the most cost effective and reliable. There can be a lot of loss in the cable, and getting a well done antenna cable can really be tough and/or expensive.
Better to run Cat-5 for power and Ethernet out, to a radio device which is weatherized and which has a nice antenna on it.
-Dane |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| reply to ankh
One big difference is that FON is stand alone, and Meraki is mesh. You can certainly run both - but I'm not a big proponent of FON for two reasons - and they'll show my position as a service provider:
1: FON creates a liability, because the ISP doesn't know it's there, and will point you out to authorities when they receive a subpoena. This could result in a very, very unpleasant situation when someone downloads child porn: your PCs may be seized and you may be arrested.
2: FON deployment by end users isn't sustainable for ISPs. If each end user uses 10x as much bandwidth because they're servicing a lot of other people via wireless, there's no viable financial model for this. ISPs will respond by banning sharing and thus FON, as most do.
Meraki solves both of these problems. They work with the ISP, we put the gateway on a dedicated IP and know that bad behavior is wireless users, and their model can also allow ISPs to collect a bit of money. This goes toward covering bandwidth and costs - and we also share it with you (it's your house, your power, and in our program you paid for half the hardware), as FON does.
To be more blunt, FON is producing hardware and becoming an ISP of sorts by stealing from ISPs while sharing with 50% with end-users to encourage them to perform the "theft" for them.
Folks who are really into the FON concept will trot out and get mad at me and say that folks can do what they want with "their" bandwidth, and this is based upon the assumption that a circuit is a circuit and that's that.
A circuit is really a set of assumptions about typical usage, which break down when there are many users on the circuit. To give you a rough example, 6Mbps costs us about $900 monthly to deliver to end users over ATM and DSL. But, we sell 6Mbps circuit for far less. How? Most folks use far less than the total link.
When these assumptions break down, providers respond by banning sharing and/or hiking rates. An example would be T1 services, which do allow resale and re-use in this way - pricing is typically $350 to $500/mo for 1.5Mbps delivered. One big reason is that we expect it to be USED by the entire staff of many people (and servers, etc) at the business behind it - more than a home user might.
Probably a longer answer than you need - but some thoughts on why FON sounds cute but doesn't "scale". I think things work when everyone wins - and with FON, only two of the three parties win, at the expense of the other.
-Dane |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| Excellent answers and thank you -- that's very helpful and adds up. And gives me what I need to explain to my brother in law what I'm involved in compared to what he thought it must be, he was assuming a model like FON's. Now I understand the difference. And am happy with what I've got going. |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs: | If you like their antenna, it'll work with the Meraki, as it's a RP-SMA connector as well. There are lots of antenna options. For directional outdoor, folks like the Rootenna.
-Dane |
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