DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| reply to ankh
Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?
Yup, it'll work, just hopping off the unit that's indoors. Another option would be to use one of these - cheaper than the solar add-on, and provides protection:
»www.hyperlinktech.com/web/data_l···tors.php
Just need to make sure they pass all eight wires, so the DC power gets there as well as the data.
-Dane |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| In today's email:
____________________________________
"Your €/$10* FON router here!
GET YOUR FREE FON WiFi ROUTER
Happy holidays and best wishes for a WiFi New Year from FON!
*Shipping costs and sales tax included. This Promotion is limited to the intended recipient of this email and is valid until December 31, 2007. Any use of this Promotion by anyone other than the intended recipient will be immediately cancelled and declared void."
--------------------------------------
---So, repeating earlier question, this system is widespread now, all over my area. Across the Bay in San Francisco they've been giving them away lately.
One of the websites I quoted earlier mentioned Sonic in connection with FON, not very clear what they meant.
I asked if FON is doing something like setting up Sonic (or other?) DSL points on poles around the area -- have they got a business model that will get local ISP cooperation?
I understand why most ISPs won't like FON, and may go to rules against sharing, but -- what the heck _is_ going on out there? And how do you really feel about it?
Is the real end point here to be able to charge by the bit instead of a flat monthly fee, or are they going to charge nothing and make money on volume by advertising? |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
1 edit | Holy freaking *, have you looked at FON's clickwrap contract terms? I didn't find a thread about FON, it's tangential to this one but, egad!
This is worse than a tarpit, it's a black hole.
Don't go there, just looking at it is dangerous.
This Snark is definitely a Boojum.
»www.fon.com/images/media/en/en_p···ions.pdf
------excerpt-------
"11. Applicable Law and Jurisdiction
Both parties expressly agree that Spanish law will govern this Contract. Any dispute arising between the Parties relating to the interpretation, execution or elimination of these TCSG will be submitted to the competent Courts and
Tribunals to consider such matters as they apply to consumers, in the place where such obligation is to be carried out or the purchasing party's place of domicile. If the purchasing party is domiciled outside Spain, both parties agree without exception to submit to the Jurisdiction of the Courts and Tribunals of the City of Madrid (Spain).
12. Miscellaneous
12.1. The Customer can find all information relating to the provision of the FON Service, details of product Offers and information at: www.fon.com.
12.2. FON advises its Customers that accessing the file containing the electronic form of the contract constitutes proof that they have entered into the contract.....
-------end excerpt------- |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
1 edit | Dane, can you go a bit more into what you as the ISP can see?
FON claims two separate channels, one secured to the user, the other secured only to other people who have FON accounts, and that FON can tell who's using each one -- and that lets them put a name to any legal risk caused by someone using the wireless.
I'm wondering what you actually see, from the ISP end, when someone has a FON device in place. Can you give examples?
Note I'm not questioning your business model concerns, I am just puzzling over how so many very big gorillas can be funding FON -- do they not care about squashing little independent ISPs? (Should I say 'shocked, shocked' here?)
Another way of putting it -- do FON, Google et al. think they have a different business model they're capable of simply imposing by encouraging customers to attach FON devices to DSL lines served by Sonic?
Or do they have any agreement with Sonic on the side?
If all you can say is "mmmff, mffff" I'll understand that.
On liability, you said all Sonic can see is the IP number of the home user, I guess that's the DSL line identification. So if the Feds come to you because someone's XXXing from a FON at my house, you send them to me.
Assuming someoned shows up saying you gave them my number, in theory, I point them to FON's claim of two secured lines, one for the owner, one for the WiFi traveler, and tell them to go talk to FON and get a warrant to search, what, FON's records first? But it'd be too late, they'd have a warrant to search my house because the ISP pointed to me, right?
(We're still hypothetical here, nothing personal (grin) and I'm still hoping to get a poletop unit, check yr email)
In the fantasy world, legally FON's claim sounds no more risky than what Sonic's offering, though I don't pretend to understand either the weasel, er, legal language or the tech. I'd welcome more comparison.
When some free ride user has been committing XXXity over Sonic's WiFi -- and the guv'mint wants to round them up -- is anything more known about them than their hardware's Ethernet identification and which Meraki they were near?
Sounds like the safer way to do bad things over free WiFi would be to buy cheap laptops and junk them after each use, I guess, the "disposable cell phone" trick writ large. |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| Followup caution on lightning protection
(found at arrl.org,
»www.arrl.org/tis/info/lightning.html
discussion is for ham radios, but applicable)
------brief_excerpt------
"Ethernet network cable connections linking the amateur station to the outside world or the computer in another room must also be protected as apart of the protection plan. For 10 and 100 Mbit UTP (unshielded twisted pair) networks, the use of an ITW LINX protector for Cat5-LAN (four pair) cable is recommended. This protector is wired in series with the network using 110-type punch-down blocks and grounded similarly to other protectors.
For those radio rooms that have broadcast or cable TV, protection is similar to the coaxial protectors described above with the exception that the impedance of the unit is 75 Ω and Ftype connectors are used.
For single and dual-LNB DBS dishes the protector is required to have a very broad band-pass and pass dc through the coax center conductor.
GPS feed lines also are commonly required to carry a dc voltage.
A high quality protector will separate the RF from the dc and protect each to its own voltage and power specification.
I/O Wrap-up
Every line that penetrates the circle and goes to the edge of the page should now have an identified protector ....
"A word of caution -- many of the protectors on the market use modular connectors (RJ-11, -12, -45). While this is a great convenience for the installer, electrically this is a very fragile connector and common amounts of surge energy are very likely to destroy the connector by welding it or fusing it open. In addition, there are also issues of flammable plastic housings, ground wire characteristics, and printed circuit boards that allow arcs to the equipment side. |
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ankh
join:2001-09-08
Albany, CA
| Viruses? Proof of concept demonstration, apparently, done.
»technology.newscientist.com/arti···ses.html
(behind a paywall, but the teaser is free and usually gives enough info to Google for the news elsewhere)
---excerpt
Wi-Fi routers are vulnerable to viruses
* 22 December 2007
* Zeeya Merali
* Magazine issue 2635
The viral infection that began in Cambridge, Massachusetts, somewhere between MIT and Harvard University, failed to cross the Charles River into Boston; in California, the San Francisco Bay stymied a similar attack.
... Steven Myers of Indiana University in Bloomington.... knows of no actual router viruses, but says such a virus could steal credit-card numbers, make the router send out spam and block incoming security patches.
Routers close enough together to communicate - less than 100 metres apart - could act as a vast network for viruses. ...
----end excerpt |
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JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
 ·Comcast
| reply to DaneJasper
quote:
Myers knows of no actual router viruses
Unlike PCs, routers use such a variety of OSes (and many of them are *nix based) that a general attack is difficult - plus being firmware based, all you need to do is powercycle it to remove the virus.
That, plus the very obvious fact that as a user of an open wifi you have no, 0, nada expectation of privacy, kinda makes this a "oh hey they got published for stating the obvious, great job!" kind of "discovery"
--
My place : »www.schettino.us |
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veloslave
Geek For God
Premium
join:2003-07-11
Pleasant Hill, CA
 ·PHONE POWER
 ·SONIC.NET
| reply to DaneJasper
The only thing that makes we a little worried about hosting a hotspot is if someone started using it for illegitimate reasons like sending out spam. I have a SBS server running Exchange and if my IP got blacklisted I would be royally skaaaarude 
I think the chances of this are extremely minimal and thus I am on-board but every now and then the what if factor, considering it is my business email in question can give me a "hmmmmm....., nahhhhhhhh!" 
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber! |
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JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
San Jose, CA
·Comcast
| said by veloslave  : I have a SBS server running Exchange and if my IP got blacklisted I would be royally skaaaarude The hotspot does NOT use your IP address. Scratch that worry 
--
My place : »www.schettino.us |
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DaneJasper
Sonic.Net
Premium,VIP
join:2001-08-20
Santa Rosa, CA
clubs:
| And we know that the IP that it does use is Wi-Fi users, so we investigate there (block MAC addresses, etc) rather than bother you. Cool, egh?
-Dane |
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veloslave
Geek For God
Premium
join:2003-07-11
Pleasant Hill, CA | reply to DaneJasper
VERY SWEET!
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber! |
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