Hosting a WiFi hotspot? in Sonic.net

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 23:07:31 EDT

veloslave : VERY SWEET!

--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 17:39:42 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by JohnInSJ :

said by veloslave :

I have a SBS server running Exchange and if my IP got blacklisted I would be royally skaaaarude :o

The hotspot does NOT use your IP address. Scratch that worry ;)

And we know that the IP that it does use is Wi-Fi users, so we investigate there (block MAC addresses, etc) rather than bother you. Cool, egh?

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:09:41 EDT

JohnInSJ :

said by veloslave :

I have a SBS server running Exchange and if my IP got blacklisted I would be royally skaaaarude :o

The hotspot does NOT use your IP address. Scratch that worry ;)
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 25 Dec 2007 21:21:10 EDT

veloslave : The only thing that makes we a little worried about hosting a hotspot is if someone started using it for illegitimate reasons like sending out spam. I have a SBS server running Exchange and if my IP got blacklisted I would be royally skaaaarude :o

I think the chances of this are extremely minimal and thus I am on-board but every now and then the what if factor, considering it is my business email in question can give me a "hmmmmm....., nahhhhhhhh!" :D
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:24:35 EDT

JohnInSJ :

quote:
Myers knows of no actual router viruses

Unlike PCs, routers use such a variety of OSes (and many of them are *nix based) that a general attack is difficult - plus being firmware based, all you need to do is powercycle it to remove the virus.

That, plus the very obvious fact that as a user of an open wifi you have no, 0, nada expectation of privacy, kinda makes this a "oh hey they got published for stating the obvious, great job!" kind of "discovery"
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:35:00 EDT

ankh : Viruses? Proof of concept demonstration, apparently, done.

»technology.newscientist.com/arti···ses.html

(behind a paywall, but the teaser is free and usually gives enough info to Google for the news elsewhere)
---excerpt
Wi-Fi routers are vulnerable to viruses

* 22 December 2007
* Zeeya Merali
* Magazine issue 2635

The viral infection that began in Cambridge, Massachusetts, somewhere between MIT and Harvard University, failed to cross the Charles River into Boston; in California, the San Francisco Bay stymied a similar attack.

... Steven Myers of Indiana University in Bloomington.... knows of no actual router viruses, but says such a virus could steal credit-card numbers, make the router send out spam and block incoming security patches.

Routers close enough together to communicate - less than 100 metres apart - could act as a vast network for viruses. ...

----end excerpt

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:26:25 EDT

ankh : Followup caution on lightning protection
(found at arrl.org,
»www.arrl.org/tis/info/lightning.html
discussion is for ham radios, but applicable)

------brief_excerpt------

"Ethernet network cable connections linking the amateur station to the outside world or the computer in another room must also be protected as apart of the protection plan. For 10 and 100 Mbit UTP (unshielded twisted pair) networks, the use of an ITW LINX protector for Cat5-LAN (four pair) cable is recommended. This protector is wired in series with the network using 110-type punch-down blocks and grounded similarly to other protectors.
For those radio rooms that have broadcast or cable TV, protection is similar to the coaxial protectors described above with the exception that the impedance of the unit is 75 Ω and Ftype connectors are used.
For single and dual-LNB DBS dishes the protector is required to have a very broad band-pass and pass dc through the coax center conductor.
GPS feed lines also are commonly required to carry a dc voltage.
A high quality protector will separate the RF from the dc and protect each to its own voltage and power specification.

I/O Wrap-up
Every line that penetrates the circle and goes to the edge of the page should now have an identified protector ....

"A word of caution -- many of the protectors on the market use modular connectors (RJ-11, -12, -45). While this is a great convenience for the installer, electrically this is a very fragile connector and common amounts of surge energy are very likely to destroy the connector by welding it or fusing it open. In addition, there are also issues of flammable plastic housings, ground wire characteristics, and printed circuit boards that allow arcs to the equipment side.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:24:03 EDT

ankh : Dane, can you go a bit more into what you as the ISP can see?

FON claims two separate channels, one secured to the user, the other secured only to other people who have FON accounts, and that FON can tell who's using each one -- and that lets them put a name to any legal risk caused by someone using the wireless.

I'm wondering what you actually see, from the ISP end, when someone has a FON device in place. Can you give examples?

Note I'm not questioning your business model concerns, I am just puzzling over how so many very big gorillas can be funding FON -- do they not care about squashing little independent ISPs? (Should I say 'shocked, shocked' here?)

Another way of putting it -- do FON, Google et al. think they have a different business model they're capable of simply imposing by encouraging customers to attach FON devices to DSL lines served by Sonic?

Or do they have any agreement with Sonic on the side?

If all you can say is "mmmff, mffff" I'll understand that.

On liability, you said all Sonic can see is the IP number of the home user, I guess that's the DSL line identification. So if the Feds come to you because someone's XXXing from a FON at my house, you send them to me.

Assuming someoned shows up saying you gave them my number, in theory, I point them to FON's claim of two secured lines, one for the owner, one for the WiFi traveler, and tell them to go talk to FON and get a warrant to search, what, FON's records first? But it'd be too late, they'd have a warrant to search my house because the ISP pointed to me, right?

(We're still hypothetical here, nothing personal (grin) and I'm still hoping to get a poletop unit, check yr email)

In the fantasy world, legally FON's claim sounds no more risky than what Sonic's offering, though I don't pretend to understand either the weasel, er, legal language or the tech. I'd welcome more comparison.

When some free ride user has been committing XXXity over Sonic's WiFi -- and the guv'mint wants to round them up -- is anything more known about them than their hardware's Ethernet identification and which Meraki they were near?

Sounds like the safer way to do bad things over free WiFi would be to buy cheap laptops and junk them after each use, I guess, the "disposable cell phone" trick writ large.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 07 Dec 2007 14:41:13 EDT

ankh : Holy freaking *, have you looked at FON's clickwrap contract terms? I didn't find a thread about FON, it's tangential to this one but, egad!
This is worse than a tarpit, it's a black hole.

Don't go there, just looking at it is dangerous.
This Snark is definitely a Boojum.
»www.fon.com/images/media/en/en_p···ions.pdf
------excerpt-------

"11. Applicable Law and Jurisdiction
Both parties expressly agree that Spanish law will govern this Contract. Any dispute arising between the Parties relating to the interpretation, execution or elimination of these TCSG will be submitted to the competent Courts and
Tribunals to consider such matters as they apply to consumers, in the place where such obligation is to be carried out or the purchasing party's place of domicile. If the purchasing party is domiciled outside Spain, both parties agree without exception to submit to the Jurisdiction of the Courts and Tribunals of the City of Madrid (Spain).

12. Miscellaneous
12.1. The Customer can find all information relating to the provision of the FON Service, details of product Offers and information at: www.fon.com.
12.2. FON advises its Customers that accessing the file containing the electronic form of the contract constitutes proof that they have entered into the contract.....

-------end excerpt-------

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 07 Dec 2007 12:36:38 EDT

ankh : In today's email:
____________________________________
"Your €/$10* FON router here!
GET YOUR FREE FON WiFi ROUTER

Happy holidays and best wishes for a WiFi New Year from FON!

*Shipping costs and sales tax included. This Promotion is limited to the intended recipient of this email and is valid until December 31, 2007. Any use of this Promotion by anyone other than the intended recipient will be immediately cancelled and declared void."
--------------------------------------
---So, repeating earlier question, this system is widespread now, all over my area. Across the Bay in San Francisco they've been giving them away lately.

One of the websites I quoted earlier mentioned Sonic in connection with FON, not very clear what they meant.

I asked if FON is doing something like setting up Sonic (or other?) DSL points on poles around the area -- have they got a business model that will get local ISP cooperation?

I understand why most ISPs won't like FON, and may go to rules against sharing, but -- what the heck _is_ going on out there? And how do you really feel about it?

Is the real end point here to be able to charge by the bit instead of a flat monthly fee, or are they going to charge nothing and make money on volume by advertising?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:31:38 EDT

DaneJasper : Yup, it'll work, just hopping off the unit that's indoors. Another option would be to use one of these - cheaper than the solar add-on, and provides protection:

»www.hyperlinktech.com/web/data_l···tors.php

Just need to make sure they pass all eight wires, so the DC power gets there as well as the data.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:26:37 EDT

ankh : Okay, assuming I get a poletop unit -- I'm on enough of a hill it's likely worth the higher power for coverage.

Does it make a difference putting it up with only power, so it's picking up the signal from the little internal unit already in place, vs. giving it its own ethernet link? (the switch you provide has my router and the indoor Meraki unit and two empty ports now).

I ask because eventually, it'd be nice to have it with a solar panel/battery and no wires at all -- to avoid any path capable of leading a hypothetical lightning bolt into the home electronics and power system.

I know, low risk.

But a friend just lost his whole home solar system to a nearby lightning strike, fried it all, and I'd feel better with no wire (or a very professionally protected wire) going to a poletop unit, if it doesn't degrade performance for it to be getting its signal via the smaller indoor unit.

Or, advice on proper protection.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:49:53 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by ankh :

Ah, but you've added a Sonic sticker covering it up!

Is it one of the numbers that's also printed on the labels on the outside of the box it came in?

Ya, we did that because Meraki made a design boo-boo - the unit has suction cups and could go in an outside window for best coverage, but then someone outside the window could view the serial number! Doh!

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:48:42 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by rsempell :

dane,

i have been reading these posts, and this is a great idea. I live in the downtown area of Eureka ca. i dont know how many customers you have up here, but anyways i think i could maybe host one.

View Larger Map

We'd love to see EVERY DSL customer with one of these gateways, that would provide some amazing coverage. :)

If you have Sonic.net DSL, you can sign up for a 1/2 price Wi-Fi access point kit at »www.sonic.net/wifi/

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:41:08 EDT

ankh : Ah, but you've added a Sonic sticker covering it up!

Is it one of the numbers that's also printed on the labels on the outside of the box it came in?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:10:48 EDT

rsempell : dane,

i have been reading these posts, and this is a great idea. I live in the downtown area of Eureka ca. i dont know how many customers you have up here, but anyways i think i could maybe host one.

View Larger Map

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 25 Nov 2007 12:35:02 EDT

DaneJasper : Yup, you can SSH into the device - the serial number (printed on the bottom) is the password. Don't break anything. ;)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 25 Nov 2007 10:07:57 EDT

JohnInSJ :

said by ankh :

and, um, any worry related to this?

"... LinuxDevices gleaned a few intriguing details with help from a reader who purchased a Meraki Mini. An undocumented back door enabled him to ssh in, using the device's serial number as the password, he said. ..."

»www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4963484100.html

Haven't tried sshing in, but not only would you need to know this info in general, you'd need to be able to physically get to the mini, so you could flip it over and read the serial number.

Seems like a fairly low risk, even if sonic didn't change this (or it hasn't changed in Meraki's base image.)

But now I will have to try it on mine ;)

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:34:06 EDT

ankh : and, um, any worry related to this?

"... LinuxDevices gleaned a few intriguing details with help from a reader who purchased a Meraki Mini. An undocumented back door enabled him to ssh in, using the device's serial number as the password, he said. ..."

»www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4963484100.html

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:20:48 EDT

ankh : Ok, email sent. But I made the mistake of reading on elsewhere, and now I"m really confused. This happens ...

Meraki's giving away gear in SF
»sf.meraki.com/

and

Sonic is rolling out a Meraki-based system in SF, according to this page, or was last month
»www.dailywireless.org/2007/10/07···he-cost/

I'm not sure if this is one and the same, or two competing systems, and wonder if Sonic's hardware is different, or flashed differently, or ... what?

There's a mesh standard coming, with which Meraki hardware won't conform? and
Meraki's open source? or was, isn't any more?
»www.ctcvista.org/node/649

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 23 Nov 2007 19:33:23 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by ankh :

> any units that you add to the mesh do need to come from us

Ok. I should be on your waiting list from a while back, for an outdoor unit (or if you're not keeping a list, I'll be watching for an announcement that they're available).

I'm pretty sure we can find one for you in stock. We're doing the pole top deployment in Santa Rosa in about a week, but we have stocked up a bit.

This would be the "Outdoor 1", which is basically a Mini (the unit you have) in an outdoor enclosure.

The other option is an "Outdoor 2" - cost is twice as much, at $199, but it's got a 200mw radio instead of 60mw.

Email me! =)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 22 Nov 2007 13:52:07 EDT

ankh : > any units that you add to the mesh do need to come from us

Ok. I should be on your waiting list from a while back, for an outdoor unit (or if you're not keeping a list, I'll be watching for an announcement that they're available).

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 22 Nov 2007 04:18:58 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by ankh :

Ok, now, I've got one unit set up, cabled to the switch.
If I buy another unit and give it to a neighbor at the edge of useful reception --- they just plug it in and put it up in a window, I know. Do these mesh units have a different case, or a plug in the Ethernet port, or do they ignore anything else that gets plugged into the Ethernet port if it's not connected to a DSL modem and Sonic?

Just wondering, figuring any port gets something plugged into it eventually, by someone who gets curious.

I told a neighbor's teenager yesterday evening that the Sonic system listed in their wifi menu was ours, really free, and OK to use, nothing weird about it.

Bytes transmitted doubled overnight (grin).

The units behave as a gateway if you connect them to your Sonic.net DSL line, or a Wi-Fi repeater if they've simply got power, or a CPE offering Ethernet if you connect a PC. It's one size fits all - very cool stuff.

Note that any units that you add to the mesh do need to come from us. The first one (and a switch and cables) is just $30, additional units are $49.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:52:30 EDT

ankh : Hmmm, looks like Meraki's model -- not Sonic's use of them -- is the same as FON's. From MERAKI's FAQ page on their San Francisco system where they're giving away access points still:

"Should I cancel my current Internet subscription?

Meraki is not an Internet service provider: we are not giving you a DSL line, and we are not guaranteeing service. We cannot promise that your neighborhood will bring enough people together for the system to work. Since the network is dependent on community involvement, if you cancel your own service, you'll become dependent on your neighbors' connections. ..."

Both organizations presumably have some idea what will happens when they get enough load on people's lines that people's ISPs start raising prices or blocking sharing.

Maybe FON and Meraki plan ahead, and intend to become ISPs at that point, having already gotten their wireless network in place at the wired ISPs' expense during the period before the crisis hits? Just speculating. I know nothing about this.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:36:47 EDT

ankh : Ok, now, I've got one unit set up, cabled to the switch.
If I buy another unit and give it to a neighbor at the edge of useful reception --- they just plug it in and put it up in a window, I know. Do these mesh units have a different case, or a plug in the Ethernet port, or do they ignore anything else that gets plugged into the Ethernet port if it's not connected to a DSL modem and Sonic?

Just wondering, figuring any port gets something plugged into it eventually, by someone who gets curious.

I told a neighbor's teenager yesterday evening that the Sonic system listed in their wifi menu was ours, really free, and OK to use, nothing weird about it.

Bytes transmitted doubled overnight (grin).

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 17 Nov 2007 11:45:49 EDT

ankh : Fantastic!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 17 Nov 2007 01:40:14 EDT

DaneJasper : We'll keep that in mind. :)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:52:01 EDT

bobrk : You guys really really really need to open a satellite branch down here in San Jose. Really. Let me know how I can help. ;)
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 16 Nov 2007 20:49:42 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by ankh :

My next question was going to be about a battery pack to make the mesh portable, but ...
»www.nukees.com/comics/nukees20071116.gif

»radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/···r_w.html

Note also that we've installed Wi-Fi on buses:

»www.busjrnl.com/article/20071105···71104013

They are fed from a 3G network at about one megabit.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 16 Nov 2007 18:50:58 EDT

ankh : My next question was going to be about a battery pack to make the mesh portable, but ...
»www.nukees.com/comics/nukees20071116.gif

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 16 Nov 2007 12:39:25 EDT

ankh : Got a pointer to discussion? I don't want to hijack this, but would like more antenna info. I've got a couple of remote sites in mind now that you mention directional.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:52:52 EDT

DaneJasper : If you like their antenna, it'll work with the Meraki, as it's a RP-SMA connector as well. There are lots of antenna options. For directional outdoor, folks like the Rootenna.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 15 Nov 2007 22:49:45 EDT

ankh : Excellent answers and thank you -- that's very helpful and adds up. And gives me what I need to explain to my brother in law what I'm involved in compared to what he thought it must be, he was assuming a model like FON's. Now I understand the difference. And am happy with what I've got going.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:36:09 EDT

DaneJasper : One big difference is that FON is stand alone, and Meraki is mesh. You can certainly run both - but I'm not a big proponent of FON for two reasons - and they'll show my position as a service provider:

1: FON creates a liability, because the ISP doesn't know it's there, and will point you out to authorities when they receive a subpoena. This could result in a very, very unpleasant situation when someone downloads child porn: your PCs may be seized and you may be arrested.

2: FON deployment by end users isn't sustainable for ISPs. If each end user uses 10x as much bandwidth because they're servicing a lot of other people via wireless, there's no viable financial model for this. ISPs will respond by banning sharing and thus FON, as most do.

Meraki solves both of these problems. They work with the ISP, we put the gateway on a dedicated IP and know that bad behavior is wireless users, and their model can also allow ISPs to collect a bit of money. This goes toward covering bandwidth and costs - and we also share it with you (it's your house, your power, and in our program you paid for half the hardware), as FON does.

To be more blunt, FON is producing hardware and becoming an ISP of sorts by stealing from ISPs while sharing with 50% with end-users to encourage them to perform the "theft" for them.

Folks who are really into the FON concept will trot out and get mad at me and say that folks can do what they want with "their" bandwidth, and this is based upon the assumption that a circuit is a circuit and that's that.

A circuit is really a set of assumptions about typical usage, which break down when there are many users on the circuit. To give you a rough example, 6Mbps costs us about $900 monthly to deliver to end users over ATM and DSL. But, we sell 6Mbps circuit for far less. How? Most folks use far less than the total link.

When these assumptions break down, providers respond by banning sharing and/or hiking rates. An example would be T1 services, which do allow resale and re-use in this way - pricing is typically $350 to $500/mo for 1.5Mbps delivered. One big reason is that we expect it to be USED by the entire staff of many people (and servers, etc) at the business behind it - more than a home user might.

Probably a longer answer than you need - but some thoughts on why FON sounds cute but doesn't "scale". I think things work when everyone wins - and with FON, only two of the three parties win, at the expense of the other.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:22:52 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by ankh :

Another off-the-wall question

I notice the FON people offer an external antenna with what looks like a standard connection -- is anything like that available for the Sonic/Meraki devices? It'd be a lot easier to run an antenna wire outside than to put the whole box outside, and I know I can get lightning protectors for antenna cable as used by ham radio operators, so they ought to be available for this band.

(I am a ham operator, but haven't put up an antenna on my house yet for that use either, so am looking at how much I can do at one time with one hole in the wall and one pole.)

Generally we've found that a weatherized enclosure for a radio with a direct antenna connection is the most cost effective and reliable. There can be a lot of loss in the cable, and getting a well done antenna cable can really be tough and/or expensive.

Better to run Cat-5 for power and Ethernet out, to a radio device which is weatherized and which has a nice antenna on it.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 15 Nov 2007 13:41:43 EDT

ankh : Another off-the-wall question

I notice the FON people offer an external antenna with what looks like a standard connection -- is anything like that available for the Sonic/Meraki devices? It'd be a lot easier to run an antenna wire outside than to put the whole box outside, and I know I can get lightning protectors for antenna cable as used by ham radio operators, so they ought to be available for this band.

(I am a ham operator, but haven't put up an antenna on my house yet for that use either, so am looking at how much I can do at one time with one hole in the wall and one pole.)

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 15 Nov 2007 10:39:32 EDT

ankh : Is there a handy comparison anywhere of the FON system and the, whatever we're calling this one? I'm not quite sure if Sonic's signed up with something larger that Meraki is doing, or is using Meraki hardware independent of whatever Meraki does next (since I gather they're a bit twitchy lately).

I'd been about to get one of the FON things going here until Sonic's offer came along.

And when I look at the online maps, there are dozens of FON sites around me within a few miles.

Can the two coexist, if I put a FON box on the switch also?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 15 Nov 2007 02:36:36 EDT

DaneJasper : Ya, and it gets real interesting when you start getting a lot of these out there. In Santa Rosa and Petaluma, we're poised to deploy some pretty large numbers of units.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:13:47 EDT

ankh : Still 4 users, passing 200kbytes at about the 48 hour mark.
Doesn't seem a lot, but others are smaller.

And I"m already thinking how handy it would be to pull over in Ukiah and check my email, since there's one customer on the map there (showing zero users, though, right now).

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:58:39 EDT

DaneJasper : No, they're just an Internet access solution - they require the Internet to configure, and they don't allow devices on the LAN to see each other.

They are a really nice whole house Internet access solution though, two or three cover a huge area.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 14 Nov 2007 18:22:19 EDT

ankh : OK. I'd pay in advance to beat a price increase (grin).

Hey, can these gadgets mesh computers together in the _absence_ of a DSL signal, just one to another?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:43:33 EDT

DaneJasper : The number is generally the number of unique MAC addresses which have associated in the last 24 hours.

We are pushing all of our outdoor gear in the near term toward our pole top deployments in Santa Rosa and Petaluma. Once those are up and running, we'll make some decisions about where to go next.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:10:11 EDT

ankh : No problem, just curious. And the netequality.net little green dot for my location now shows "4" users, whatever that number means. I'm guessing unique hardware connecting?

Guess I should pull out the Powerbook and go take a walk around the neighborhood and see how far it reaches in the window location.

Any progress on outdoor units?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:55:06 EDT

DaneJasper : ..but we don't have the secure one working yet, sorry. =)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 12:25:12 EDT

bobrk : Yeah, some time after your Meraki is plugged in, two networks show up, the free one, that may someday have advertising, and a secure one that anyone with a Sonic account can log into. Pretty cool if you ask me.
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:51:43 EDT

ankh : How about the total number shown for my site on the map:
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi
-- is that including me, as I got set up, under my old and new IP numbers, plus one other user? Or three users besides me? See question below, I think I'm using the public bandwidth right now, not wireless set aside for me personally.

Sonic.net Open WiFi shows up and connects under AirPort, I assume that's the public face of the Meraki, it works for me to, no obvious difference from connecting via Ethernet.

Question -- what is the apparently related AirPort network detected (sometimes, intermittent, showing up in the same pulldown menu)? It is named "Sonic.net Member Secure Hi-Speed" --- and it gives a login prompt, and wants a password I don't have.

Is this something you send out later?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 13 Nov 2007 05:52:59 EDT

DaneJasper : Sounds like you got it all set up, nice work! Sorry about the lack of notice on the need to move to four IPs - we were supposed to email you that info before the gear shipped.

As for more data - no, that's about all we can provide, and it's pretty much the extent of what we see on our side too. Good to see that it's getting a bit of use!

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 12 Nov 2007 23:27:34 EDT

ankh : I got mine set up today without much difficulty, am using my wired Ethernet myself now, but (assuming this is accurate) have a couple of people currently using the open WiFi side:
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi

One question -- my Airport sporadically shows availability of a 'secured high speed' Sonic connection that wants a login -- doesn't like my usual Sonic login/password, and doesn't always even appear as available. I'm guessing this is something Sonic will let me use? If so how?

I did get a switch in the box and tech support confirmed the setup
Modem--switch--wireless
................\-router--computer
....................\-computer

Service from the modem divides at the switch, one line going to the wireless point and the other line going to my router, and so my router serves only my computers.

Managed to get very confused briefly because I'd only gotten one IP assigned originally; figured that out when I couldn't keep both the wireless and my wired Ethernet connection live at the same time. Oh, duh.

Found User Tools and I clicked the box to change to four IP numbers there and my router dropped off the network (of course, duh again, because a new base IP got automagically assigned along with the three added numbers, I didn't quite anticipate that would happen without telling me the new number somehow).

Luckily the wireless was working or I'd have had to use the telephone and say "now who am I?"

Got the new IP number off User Tools, put that into my router, saved the settings, and so recovered my Ethernet connection.

That seems to be all there is to it.

A workflow specifying every little step would help, with reminders of the obvious. Like "You need to choose four or eight IP numbers; if you only had one til now, we don't add new IP numbers, we assign a whole new set, and you'll have to find out what it is and put that into your router to get connection back because we'll drop you cold when you click yes to change from one to four ..."

Now of course I'm wondering who's using it! -- it's none of my business, of course --this equipment is on Sonic's side, no reason I should have any information about who's using it and I appreciate the separation is wise.

But -- besides going out and putting one of the stickers near the front steps on a stick so people can identify the house -- is there any other info available beyond this?
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 04:22:03 EDT

bobrk : Ok, will do.

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:50:52 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by bobrk :

So I hooked up the Meraki to the switch along with the modem and the router, and now the Meraki is not registering on the router health page. I'm not sure if changing the topology did it, but just the same, it's not working. I can see it in the wireless list as "Sonic.net Open WiFi-scanning".

Give Jason Kane a call or email - you might need more IPs. jkane@corp.sonic.net, or 707-522-1000 and ask for him by name.

-Dane

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 20:22:33 EDT

bobrk : Topology looks like this:


DSL modem
      |
      V
ethernet switch -> meraki
      | 
      V
router
      |
      V
my stuff

I think you guys will have to reconfigure the Meraki somehow, since it used to be behind my router.

--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:06:11 EDT

bobrk : I tried powercycling it, and still no worky.

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Mon, 05 Nov 2007 03:59:35 EDT

bobrk : So I hooked up the Meraki to the switch along with the modem and the router, and now the Meraki is not registering on the router health page. I'm not sure if changing the topology did it, but just the same, it's not working. I can see it in the wireless list as "Sonic.net Open WiFi-scanning".
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Sat, 20 Oct 2007 04:24:39 EDT

bobrk : Sure! I'd like that. Thanks!

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Thu, 18 Oct 2007 03:23:20 EDT

veloslave : I could use one please... either that or have me represent you in a Real Estate transaction and then I'll buy you a few. :p

My IT budget is on life support right now, like my industry... and to add insult and some more injury to injury... the speaker on my PDA/phone died today! grrrr :mad:

Thanks in advance!
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Thu, 18 Oct 2007 02:35:29 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by bobrk :

There was no switch in my Meraki package. Perhaps that was because I was an early adopter?

Oops. Good point. That was prior to us deciding that we really needed these things directly bridged. Do you have one, or should I send you one?

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:13:46 EDT

JohnInSJ : Me three - but I already had everything else and was wired that way, so no need at all to send one :D
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:29:06 EDT

veloslave : Same here Dane

Thanks

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:13:20 EDT

bobrk : There was no switch in my Meraki package. Perhaps that was because I was an early adopter?

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:40:39 EDT

DaneJasper : Our Wi-Fi setup kit includes everything you need to connect behind your DSL modem:

Three foot Ethernet cable.
Five port Ethernet switch.
Fourteen foot Ethernet cable to connect to..
Wi-Fi access point.

You simply connect whatever you've currently got to the Ethernet switch we provide. This could be a router, PC, etc.

-Dane

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Tue, 16 Oct 2007 14:32:11 EDT

veloslave :

said by DaneJasper :

It IS important to connect the device using an Ethernet switch which we provide, NOT to put it behind a router which you own or control.

-Dane

Switch? Provided? NOT behind my router? I think I may have missed something.

Could you clarify that please because I have mine behind my router and I do not have an extra switch to create a DMZ (major spending freeze, I'm a Realtor, go figure) so am I at risk what should I do for now?
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Financial Liability is still my concern

Mon, 15 Oct 2007 20:01:10 EDT

DaneJasper : The basic premise is that we see the Wi-Fi access point as a part of OUR network, not yours. We remotely control and manage it, and allocate it a single public IP. We provide the free access which it offers, and take responsibility for dealing with any abuse that occurs behind it.

Our Wi-Fi mesh includes many access points fed by many different types of connections - there is no difference between an AP we run a T1 to and an AP that we assign an IP to via DSL.

It IS important to connect the device using an Ethernet switch which we provide, NOT to put it behind a router which you own or control.

-Dane

Financial Liability is still my concern

Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:56:45 EDT

johnbrowny : Dane,

Thanks for your response.

I would still like to see some sort of detailed document, validated by reputable legal counsel who is versed in such issues, posted on your website , addressing the issue of liability or lack thereof by such participation (under the issues of participation as a willing or unwilling co-conspirator).

I would hate to lose my house or run up attorney fees to a lawsuit over providing free internet access. The same could apply to renters unless renters insurance covers such liability.

Part of my day job is sending out take down notices and feretting out network attacks. I can foresee a case being built up around the co-conspirator issue under current case law.

The free/community wi-fi project has a lot of potential especially for users who are occasional and casual web browsers.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:08:59 EDT

veloslave : This sounds like we are not going to get the upgrades to our units we were hoping for unless we pony up some more $$??

What was Meraki doing... "here you go... take as many as you want...we'll figure out price and features later..."??

Yikes... not exactly a good PR move for a company that is trying to break into the big league.
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:05:39 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by bobrk :

Wow. Interesting. It will be interesting to see how this all works out. If the network dies, will Dane buy back our Merakis? ;)

It is very interesting. We're watching the dialog and the moves that Meraki makes next.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 18:49:32 EDT

bobrk : Wow. Interesting. It will be interesting to see how this all works out. If the network dies, will Dane buy back our Merakis? ;)
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:29:23 EDT

tquan : dane--are you affected by meraki's recent price changes?

»Meraki Annoys Partners, Customers

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:32:18 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by johnbrowny :

How do you propose to implement security or usage oversight to prevent a user from attempting to hack into web pages via URL hacking or browser scripting or using the hot spot to launch a DOS attack ?

If we were to install one of these units at our home or business, and in the event of a law suit, the unit was deemed to facilitate, as in providing free connectivity for malicious attack, would we be liable as and would the home owners insurance cover such loss ?

Is there any FAQ addressing the issues of such liability ?

The Wi-Fi access point is allocated it's own IP, and from our DHCP logs, we can see the hardware address of the device, and the IP it reports from, so they all tie together.

If there were bad behavior from the wireless network, we have a management platform that lets us see the hardware MAC addresses of any devices connected at that time/date. We'd refer law enforcement to the manufacturer of that equipment to obtain ownership information, if available.

So, you'd never be involved. Cool, egh?

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 18:12:45 EDT

johnbrowny : How do you propose to implement security or usage oversight to prevent a user from attempting to hack into web pages via URL hacking or browser scripting or using the hot spot to launch a DOS attack ?

If we were to install one of these units at our home or business, and in the event of a law suit, the unit was deemed to facilitate, as in providing free connectivity for malicious attack, would we be liable as and would the home owners insurance cover such loss ?

Is there any FAQ addressing the issues of such liability ?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 05 Oct 2007 13:30:20 EDT

bobrk :

said by DaneJasper :

My suggestion would be Cat-5 for a camera rather than firewire. FYI.

He's probably got one of the old iSights, as I do.

It'd probably be even better to use one of those wireless cams that runs its own website.
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 04 Oct 2007 03:16:34 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by c_hanamaikai :

Hey Dane, I placed an order for a unit about 2-3 days ago. What is the status on it?

We're just beginning the process of getting hardware configured and out. Likely up to a week or two, FYI.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 18:55:43 EDT

c_hanamaikai : Hey Dane, I placed an order for a unit about 2-3 days ago. What is the status on it?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 06:05:19 EDT

ankh : I'll puzzle over that (don't know how I'd wire it, but I'm using a Mac). But it would be fun to share cameras up and down our street too, and might cut the car breakins a bit come to think of it. Hmmm ...

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:43:35 EDT

DaneJasper : My suggestion would be Cat-5 for a camera rather than firewire. FYI.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:27:04 EDT

ankh : OK, I put in (at sonic's website) for an indoor unit, and am waiting to hear when an outdoor one comes available.

Next time I'm in the attic, I'll run Ethernet up and put a hole under the eaves by the chimney. And I won't forget the drip loop.

I think I'll run firewire at the same time so it's easy to eventually stick a webcam up there. The view's a lot better from the roof. Maybe 2 webcams for stereo.

I know lightning's not much of a risk but would appreciate any thoughts about isolating any conductor that's out there in the weather, just in case.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 26 Sep 2007 02:30:22 EDT

DaneJasper : Ya, I saw the "give one get one" program for the OLPC project too, sounds kind of neat.

Small screen and keyboard though - really just a good device for kids, not elderly folks.

I can't imagine it won't use WiFi.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:06:11 EDT

ankh : How about the "$100" (now $200, coming in November) laptop?

Can the Sonic wireless talk to this one? If so I can buy these for my elderly neighbors (and for each, also send one to one of the startup countries for kids).

Such a deal!

»news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6679431.stm

"Using standard wireless protocols, the laptops are automatically able to form a "mesh network" where each machine acts as both laptop and router, able to pass information between computers.

"If one laptop is switched on in range of an internet connection (usually at a local school) all other laptops on the network can share the access. "

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 22 Sep 2007 12:54:28 EDT

JohnInSJ : There are 2 interfaces - one open, throttled and one using WPA, which is either not throttled or throttled less.... I forget which.

Ah... see »Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

So yeah, less throttled for you.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:59:21 EDT

ankh : Can you tell if you're 'throttled' as an outsider, when you use your own hotspot? I gather getting this rig _instead_ of an ordinary wireless access point makes sense, but am wondering if --- either now or eventually --- the owner's Ethernet devices can be registered on it so they get full use of the bandwidth while the free riders get the ads and the speed cap. I understand that all the programming has to be done from the Sonic end for this hardware.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:59:28 EDT

JohnInSJ : I use my own hotspot sometimes :D

It's just a click-through on the first web access, and then the occasionally inserted ad at the very top of a page. Very easy and unobtrusive to use.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:03:01 EDT

ankh : I have some older neighbors (80' and about 200' away, line of sight across/down the street) who might use web access if I brought them an old Mac with Firefox set up, and got a usable signal.

What would be next, do they then get led to a signup page for Sonic?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:01:32 EDT

DaneJasper : Coverage map for our pole top units in Santa Rosa.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:56:23 EDT

DaneJasper : We've gotten some nice press on our WiFi project. There's a video, here:

»link.brightcove.com/services/lin···78173339

And an article, here:

»www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs···SINESS01

A new look at Wi-Fi

By NATHAN HALVERSON
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

At the Starbucks coffee shop across from Santa Rosa Junior College, an employee suggested a patron go downtown if he wanted free wireless Internet access. Starbucks offers a wireless connection through T-Mobile, but it costs money.

"I want it, but I won't pay for it," said Nick Maricle as he left Starbucks. "Free Wi-Fi would be awesome."

Maricle might soon get his wish.

Sonic.net plans to expand its free wireless Internet access from downtown Santa Rosa into the adjoining junior college neighborhood.

The proposed free network would cover an area roughly the size of one square mile. It uses an innovative technology originally intended to provide Internet access for low-income families.

The expansion comes at a time when other free wireless projects have fallen apart.

In San Francisco, the EarthLink-Google plan to build a citywide network crumbled in late August due to the unexpectedly high cost of wireless networks. Other projects in cities from Chicago to Houston have either failed or stalled too.

Sonic.net hopes to avoid a similar fate by taking a unique -- and less expensive -- approach.

Where other projects cost anywhere from $100,000 to $190,000 a square mile to build, Sonic.net hopes to spend less than $25,000 a square mile.

Sonic.net will rely on community involvement. It is using a new technology that allows it to team up with its customers, who will contribute a slice of their Internet connection to feed powerful relay devices mounted atop light poles.

Sonic will split the cost -- and the profits -- of the project with individual customers who will help it build the network, one connection at a time.

Customers who agree to participate in the project will purchase a bundle of easy-to-install hardware for $30, with the remaining $50 covered by Sonic.net. The hardware splits the customer's DSL line, sending some of it to the free network and some of it to their home network. For security, the networks are kept completely separate.

Dane Jasper, president and founder of Sonic.net, said customers rarely use all their bandwidth and likely will not notice any slowdown in their Internet connection.

"We find that typical end-users consume about 2 percent of the bandwidth in their link," he said. "The excess is what we're seeking to leverage."

If a particular zone is getting overused, Sonic.net could supplement it by establishing a dedicated DSL line for the free network, Jasper said.

But to function at all, Sonic.net needs some of its customers to step forward.

"If we get a relatively small number of customers participating, it will work," Jasper said. "The more gateways, the faster the pathway."

Participating customers will receive 50 percent of any advertising revenue generated by the Wi-Fi network. Sonic.net will help pay for the project by placing ads on the browser bar of people who use the free network.

Also, the bundled hardware functions as a wireless Internet connection inside the home. So rather than buying a Linksys router for $60, users can buy the bundle for $30. However, the bundle lacks some basic functions of a router, such as the ability to link home computers or printers in a wireless network, because it contains a safety firewall to prevent outsiders from accessing customers' computers.

San Francisco residents will also be eligible to buy the hardware at a subsidized price, but Sonic.net is not authorized to install relay devices atop lamp posts in San Francisco. And it is the relay devices that make the network zing.

Sitting atop lamp posts, the relay points take the relatively weak signals from people's homes and blast it across the neighborhood. The pole-top units communicate together, creating a web-like mesh so if one fails another can cover it. Signals get weaker and slower with distance.

Sonic.net has access to light poles in Santa Rosa under an agreement it struck with the city to provide free wireless Internet access in select locations such as Howarth Park -- although the city provides the equipment in those areas. It has a similar deal with Petaluma, but that deal is limited to the downtown area.

Sonic.net plans to install the relay nodes in Santa Rosa in late September or early October.

Eric McHenry, chief technology officer for Santa Rosa, said the Wi-Fi expansion is good news for residents.

"What we've been missing is a way to extend our broadband appetite as we leave our homes and offices," McHenry said. "Wi-Fi is emerging as the connectivity option of choice for mobile devices -- not just laptops as previously thought, but also now for popular devices such as Apple's iPhone and new iPod Touch."

People will be able to look up a business address, the weather, or download music while sipping coffee or waiting for the bus.

Everytime someone logs onto the free network and clicks on a Google ad in the banner, the revenue will go into a pot that Sonic.net splits with its participating customers.

Sonic.net is setting its expectations low for the amount of revenue that will be generated, Jasper said. A customer who pays $18 a month for DSL could have their bill reduced by 50 cents to a few dollars, he said.

"There will be money; we just don't know how much yet," Jasper said. "It's an experiment."

The project is also a way for Sonic.net to market itself. Everytime someone logs onto the network they will see Sonic.net's home page.

Still, some analysts are skeptical that any communitywide Wi-Fi will work.

"It may be that Wi-Fi is not the ideal way to go," said Stan Schatt, vice president of broadband and wireless network research for ABI Research. "There are other technologies that are coming in."

Once 3G mobile Internet access provided by cellular phone companies becomes faster and more ubiquitous, Wi-Fi might not be necessary, Schatt said. Another technology known as WiMAX might also take the place of Wi-Fi, he said.

Esme Vos, founder of Muniwireless.com, strongly disagrees. She pointed out that Apple added Wi-Fi technology to its latest round of iPods and its CEO, Steve Jobs, gave the technology a glowing endorsement.

"Steve Jobs just said yesterday how great Wi-Fi is," Vos said. "Everything is being Wi-Fi enabled now."

Vos said it was very interesting that an Internet service provider was actually subsidizing a product that other Internet providers such as Comcast and Verizon forbid their customers to use.

"A big company is not going to do this. They don't want people sharing. They want each house to get a connection," she said.

The Junior College neighborhood has the largest concentration of Sonic.net users. About 22,000 residential customers use the company for DSL service across California, with about 6,000 of those households in Santa Rosa.

But Jasper said he is not concerned about losing customers. Dial-up customers are vanishing. And increased competition from cable, telephone and satellite companies mean Sonic.net is experimenting with several business models.

"This is the kind of diversification we need if we are going to survive," Jasper said.

You can reach Staff Writer Nathan Halverson at 521-5494 or nathan.halverson@pressdemocrat.com.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:16:27 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by JohnInSJ :

Well, I can tell you the uptake in my residential area is far better with the new hotspot vs the old one - I never got more then a rare usage out of the "pay as you go" hotspot. Apparently, free is much more desirable :D

Yup, and that makes SO much sense. The challenge was to work out a way to monetize that free use. Ad bar display is going to be interesting. We'll also likely launch friendly NXDomain handling for WiFi users which provides another revenue opportunity using search results.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:37:54 EDT

JohnInSJ : Well, I can tell you the uptake in my residential area is far better with the new hotspot vs the old one - I never got more then a rare usage out of the "pay as you go" hotspot. Apparently, free is much more desirable :D
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 09 Sep 2007 02:43:40 EDT

DaneJasper : We're still at a pretty early stage, but it's ramping up fast. We've got about 40 units going out to San Francisco residents in the next week or so, plus Santa Rosa is getting a big launch tomorrow. In Santa Rosa, we're soliciting customers in a specific area, where we'll be deploying about 50 units on street light poles in a single square mile. Should be interesting.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 08 Sep 2007 09:31:12 EDT

JohnInSJ : Hey Dane,

How's the trial going? Turns out I have 1 consistent user off mine, so I may actually generate revenue after all :D
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 04 Aug 2007 04:02:23 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by bobrk :

Do you sell the outdoor versions as well, or would we buy them direct from Meraki?

Yes, we do. Email me - I think we may have one or zero left, but more on the way. dane@sonic.net.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 02 Aug 2007 19:33:06 EDT

bobrk : Do you sell the outdoor versions as well, or would we buy them direct from Meraki?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:34:59 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by rzg00 :

I'm running linksys/dd-wrt, have a dynamic IP and live out in the sticks on a couple of acres (Ben Lomond in Santa Cruz), even so I can generally pick up an encrypted network or two from my neighbors) so I'm not sure that I'd get much traffic on a hotspot, but I do rather like the idea.

What would I need to do to participate?

You just need the equipment. We're subsidizing it a bit, as it's quite early in the testing. Cost is $40, we pick up shipping. Email me (dane@corp.sonic.net) with your Sonic.net username and shipping address if you'd like to participate.

One additional point. The equipment will repeat as well, so having a second unit can let you cover a larger area. I use two in my home for good coverage in the house (for the iPhone, for example, or the wife's laptop). You could also use a second unit in an out-building like a workshop, or provide a unit to a directly adjacent nearby neighbor so that they could get access.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 25 Jul 2007 12:27:47 EDT

bobrk : Oh, and thanks for the goodies, Dane.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:05:37 EDT

bobrk : And I'm up and posting from it right now with my iPhone.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:08:14 EDT

rzg00 : I'm running linksys/dd-wrt, have a dynamic IP and live out in the sticks on a couple of acres (Ben Lomond in Santa Cruz), even so I can generally pick up an encrypted network or two from my neighbors) so I'm not sure that I'd get much traffic on a hotspot, but I do rather like the idea.

What would I need to do to participate?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:40:42 EDT

bobrk : I have a window right next to my network stuff. Should be a piece of cake.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 24 Jul 2007 13:39:32 EDT

DaneJasper : Here's the range guess data:

Typical Repeating Radius

* Indoor: 100-150ft (30-50m)
* Outdoor: 300-750ft (100-250m)

We generally would suggest that you put it in a window for maximum coverage. See image for example.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:30:46 EDT

bobrk : Do you have any idea of the range?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 24 Jul 2007 03:20:46 EDT

DaneJasper : Nope, there's no setup - it's designed to be plug and play. We manage the whole network of access points from here, and can set things like speed, splash page details, etc.

At the moment, it's set up at a max of 1Mbps down, and 200kbps up. It's likely that we'll reduce this, perhaps to 500kbps/100kbps to further insulate gateway hosts from potential impact.

Web browsers will see a splash screen and be redirected to the Sonic.net home page before they can browse. Soon, this will be replaced with a landing page that's more informative and useful. Non-browser applications (iPhone, Nintendo DS etc) can access the Internet despite not having clicked through the splash screen.

The "ad bar" is on as of today, but it's only showing on some sites, and it's mostly just providing a Google search bar function. More to come here, it's quite beta.

Our goal is to soon provide WPA access at two other speed tiers. These would be a mid speed with ads for Sonic.net customers who do not host a WiFi gateway, and a high speed for those who host a gateway on their DSL. This provides an added benefit for those who choose to host an access point. However, we're still in discussions with Meraki about this concept, and they have not committed to the required integration (yet).

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 21:07:34 EDT

JohnInSJ : Apparently, at some point we'll get access to the WPA-secured side of these buggers as sonic users, or something... but I don't think they're far enough along on the whole idea just yet.

These are rate limited already (1mbit max? did I remember that right?)

All I know for sure is, I had the old hotspot up for, what, three years now and I think I had one log-on the whole time. Free is definitely more attractive.

Due to an oddity of the way I monitor my site, I can see the hotspot traffic by comparing the modem stats and the main router box stats (»schettino.us/stats) looks like it's using 1.4% of my uplink, and 0.1% of my downlink (on average)
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:54:32 EDT

veloslave :

said by bobrk :

So I can just plug it into my router or are there instructions?

I plugged it into the switch off of my router and it works like a charm!
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:53:29 EDT

veloslave :

said by JohnInSJ :

No cables. No docs. No set up possible (as far as I know) - just plug it in and it works.

So if there is no setup... then it is pre-configured for external use only? Internal wireless users will not get encryption, LAN or full bandwidth? I still have my Linksys/DD-WRT running so no problem for me with that scenario (as long as I can continue to use the Linksys)... I just thought it had more flexibility.

said by JohnInSJ
Gonna start wracking up those credits now baby ;)
[/BQUOTE :

Remember... we all share in the same pot and... GOOD JOB! :D

Hey Dane.... how soon until the ads go live?
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:41:14 EDT

bobrk : So I can just plug it into my router or are there instructions?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:36:34 EDT

DaneJasper : Yup. The NetEquality map will show up/down status, so you'll see it go up shortly after you plug it in.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:32:39 EDT

bobrk : Heh, I'm already on the map and I haven't got my box yet. ;)

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:17:37 EDT

JohnInSJ : No cables. No docs. No set up possible (as far as I know) - just plug it in and it works.

You can see your hotspot on the map
»public.meraki.net/network/Sonic.netWiFi
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi

FYI I got me a user :D Must be a neighbor, but they've been on off and on for a few days (and 76MB!).

Gonna start wracking up those credits now baby ;)
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:28:13 EDT

bobrk :

said by veloslave :

Hey Dane.... THANKS a lot for the help... if we ever do anything like this again... just for the record I am, eh hem, an XL kinda guy :p

Yeah, I am too. ;)
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:09:25 EDT

veloslave : Woo hoo... live in Pleasant Hill

Haven't really done much more than plug er in and check it... but it's running great.

Was it just me or do the units not come with network cables or documentation? I have quite a few of the shorties laying around anyhow but I am still wondering how to get into the configuration console so I can set up security and define internal traffic. Anybody got the IP for the config? I tried a couple of the obvious 192.168.x.x ones but no luck.

I was surprised how small & simple the unit is... am looking forward to checking its range... especially considering I am already running the Linksys/DD-WRT with the upgraded antennas and the radio power OC'd. What kind of range is everyone getting? How many units are you using?

Hey Dane.... THANKS a lot for the help... if we ever do anything like this again... just for the record I am, eh hem, an XL kinda guy :p
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:24:46 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by bobrk :

It's interesting to see that Djdeadly 's hotspot is two hotspots. Why is that?

I'll PM you my info, Dane.

I think he's got two units - an indoor one and an outdoor one.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:20:16 EDT

bobrk : It's interesting to see that Djdeadly 's hotspot is two hotspots. Why is that?

I'll PM you my info, Dane.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:16:55 EDT

DaneJasper : It's interesting to see how the usage is growing.

»public.meraki.net/network/Sonic.netWiFi

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 21:25:09 EDT

bobrk :

said by JohnInSJ :

Yay 2 dots in San Jose! bobrk, you getting one too? We can slowly fill in coverage ;)

We'll see...
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:59:56 EDT

JohnInSJ : Yay 2 dots in San Jose! bobrk, you getting one too? We can slowly fill in coverage ;)
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:19:57 EDT

Djdeadly :

said by bobrk :

Heh, I'm way over on 16th. Stumbling distance, but pretty far for WiFi. ;)

That is far haha lots of trees so can't put your mini on a huge pole.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:08:22 EDT

bobrk : Heh, I'm way over on 16th. Stumbling distance, but pretty far for WiFi. ;)

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:52:16 EDT

Djdeadly : Yup between 4th and 3rd. Its just indoor unit so you might have to sit by it. Outdoor unit will be installed tomorrow, might get better signal off that.

Don't you live by Topdog and Naglee Park Garage? Be nice to get free internet there while eatting a bird dog. :D

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:36:51 EDT

bobrk : 100 block? That's on the 4th street side of SJSU, right?

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:12:40 EDT

Djdeadly : Our first access point is online. At the 100 Block of Paseo De San Antonio Next to San Jose State, We're setting up our outdoor unit tomorrow.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 27 Jun 2007 03:02:12 EDT

DaneJasper : The "network" of member units is configured for bandwidth limiting at 1Mbps downstream - this should help prevent anyone from freeloading all of your DSL bandwidth. In future, we may limit this further.

Ad support isn't online yet, but is "coming soon". Tiers of access that would allow other Sonic.net customers a faster service, and hosts faster yet, are also in progress. The whole thing is beta, so expect changes.

The fun part happens when you've got two or three of them near each other. If you've got a neighbor or out building you want to cover, etc.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:46:40 EDT

JohnInSJ : Its a mini

»meraki.com/products/mini/

Looks just like that one!
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 26 Jun 2007 23:44:07 EDT

guhuna : Can you post any pictures of the unit? I'd like to see what one of them looks like.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:46:46 EDT

JohnInSJ :

said by DaneJasper :

said by JohnInSJ :

So, when can we join in? You need a pushpin in san jose ;)

John, your gear is on it's way. Thanks for joining us so early in this program - I tossed in a little gift with your hardware as a bonus. Should all be there tomorrow via UPS. :)

-Dane

I'm live - first San Jose push-pin! I WIN! :D

»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi

I'm using it now to post this. Tiny little thing - looks like it does 802.11b/g? Thanks for the goodies, my daughter already snagged the pen - any pen with a logo is dead meat :D

I'm not seeing any ads when using it, but it does seem slower then my native connection, so the bandwidth limiters are working.

What should it look like? And how do I "log in"?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 25 Jun 2007 21:49:51 EDT

veloslave : Well... if it is even steven profit sharing then sign me up; sure seems hard to go wrong with that! You guys have never steered me wrong so lets give er a shot.

I'm rodromo at sonic, send it out when you are ready.

I have a single story home with a high roof... I can mount an out door unit at the middle of the peak or even two on the ends if you want... maybe we better make that one for now to keep the startup lower... my "IT department" is a little broke at the moment, Realty has been a little slow, as I'm sure you have heard and the server just got some more RAM :p

BTW... I have my 2003 server running DHCP instead of my DD-WRT router/WiFi. I assume that will not be a problem with keeping the LAN secure? I have the SBS server running with 4 workstations and some sensitive client information on the network.... security is an absolute must for me. That said, my IP traffic is lite... heck you already know that if you want to.

How does the AP know personal traffic from hotspot traffic? SSID? Or does personal traffic have to manually log on? I also assume that the security is available in at least WPA? I guess you can't use the Sputnik or Chillispot that comes with DD-WRT? If so we are ready to go :D I have the transmit power on my DD-WRT cranked up to 70 (safe & sane OC) and it covers the property adequately... nothing to brag about out on the patio with the laptop... I guess these units must push out a lot more signal than that if they are to be successful right?

I better stop there before you decide I'm "not fit" for the program :o

Let me know if I can be of help

EDIT: 7:40 pm Just opened a Basic account for a good friend in Antioch; keeping the love coming your way. Do me a big favor and make sure the equipment for "FM" goes out soon... I have my Saturday scheduled to bring him a used computer and get him online AND teach him eBay.... it's going to be a long day. :D

--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 25 Jun 2007 17:08:15 EDT

JohnInSJ :

said by DaneJasper :

said by JohnInSJ :

So, when can we join in? You need a pushpin in san jose ;)

John, your gear is on it's way. Thanks for joining us so early in this program - I tossed in a little gift with your hardware as a bonus. Should all be there tomorrow via UPS. :)

Oooooo Presentesesss... we likes those, they're our precious :D

I'll get it set up tomorrow!
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:55:19 EDT

DaneJasper :

said by JohnInSJ :

So, when can we join in? You need a pushpin in san jose ;)

John, your gear is on it's way. Thanks for joining us so early in this program - I tossed in a little gift with your hardware as a bonus. Should all be there tomorrow via UPS. :)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 25 Jun 2007 01:35:15 EDT

DaneJasper : In a region like yours, if you tell a neighbor about it and they get a unit, there will be at least one user, but otherwise, you may or may not get any. We've scattered units around and found that some do get lots and lots of use, and some get a little or none.

Our model for this is to EQUALLY share any ad revenue from free users to everyone who is hosting, regardless of their particular success at their location. I'm hoping that this causes more folks to choose to deploy, as opposed to only those who think they're likely to get high usage.

As for equipment cost - we're going to subsidize it, but I don't know how deep we will end up going. The retail on the Meraki indoor is $49, and the outdoor is $99. I expect we can get a bulk/wholesale rate that's a bit lower, then we could subsidize. One way we've considered pricing this is to offer one to any DSL user at a deep discount, maybe $25, then they could buy additional units for $40 or something. this would allow you to put one on your DSL line at one end of the house, and one at the other end to improve coverage in your home. Another could go in an outbuilding (studio, apartment, etc). They're great even just for solving the upstairs/downstairs (kid's room) problem.

Obviously, we're still in a testing phase, and the business model is not yet completely figured out. We have a few ideas, but Meraki has not implemented nor yet committed to implement a few features which we believe are key to broad deployment. We'll continue to work with them toward these goals, while testing the gear in the real world at the same time.

The feedback and ideas are great, keep 'em coming!

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:30:43 EDT

veloslave : Dane... I would be very interested and I have all of the requirements already...

My only catch is that in a neighborhood like mine I cannot imagine much traffic which makes paying for the start up kinda foolish economically... at least at first glance. My hood's density is "normal"?

»maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q···=16&om=1

Maybe if the start up cost were taken out of the customers ad proceeds until it gets paid for? I think the start up fee would/should be higher priced (than normal or other plans) since it was not getting paid for up front but that way someone with volume of service doubts, like me, doesn't think failure is going to be expensive.

Or maybe...........???
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:20:41 EDT

DaneJasper : We're somewhat pre-launch right now, but within some narrow parameters, additional participation is possible:

Only a single free tier is available, currently set at 1Mbps downstream at 200kbps upstream. This tier is intended to be ad supported, and that ad revenue would be split with all hosts of the network, but ad support isn't yet online. This free tier may be reduced in speed to somewhere between 500kbps and 1Mbps in future.

Two higher tiers are intended:

A 1.5Mbps tier for any Sonic.net customers, authenticated via WPA, at no additional cost. Ad supported.

A 3.0Mbps tier, also WPA, exclusively for use by those who host a gateway node on their DSL line (that's you!).

These two are not yet online either.

Hosts today must have either:

Static IP DSL service and an available switch port and IP address for assignment via DHCP. Note that we assign DHCP from the top of the block to the bottom, so if you have statically set a system on your first and second IPs, and you plug in the Meraki hardware and it asks for an IP, we'll give it the last one in your block. Careful if you mix and match hard set and DHCP!

..or a router which offers a private IP via DHCP.

With all of these things in mind, if you'd like to join the testing, the (subsidized) hardware cost is currently $40 (which we'll just place on your account), and we'll cover the shipping. Email me if you want one, dane@sonic.net, with your Sonic.net login, DSL service address, and if it's different, UPS shipping address. I'll send you a little care package. :)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 24 Jun 2007 00:35:07 EDT

rsempell : im located in eureka ca very close to downtown :)

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:56:58 EDT

Djdeadly : I couldn't connect to MetroFi's system but

»www.metrofi.com/advertising_solutions.html

and speed is up to 1 mbps but its extremely slow most likely overloaded with freeloaders.

JohninSJ, bobrk, and I can create the San Jose network :)

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:12:36 EDT

JohnInSJ : So, when can we join in? You need a pushpin in san jose ;)
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:06:18 EDT

DaneJasper : Interesting. Call it "beta". :)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:47:15 EDT

bobrk : Have you tried them from a customer IP? ;)

I seem to be hitting service issues. Working now.

And now, not. Intermittent 503s. Definite capacity issues.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:14:58 EDT

DaneJasper : Working okay for me, FYI.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:10:44 EDT

bobrk : First two links are down at this time.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 23 Jun 2007 16:05:32 EDT

DaneJasper : FYI folks, our test network is slowly growing, if you're interested in a peek, here's three different views of the network:

»public.meraki.net/network/Sonic.netWiFi
»public.meraki.net/network/Sonic.netWiFi/map
»www.netequality.net/overview.php···.netWiFi

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 20 Jun 2007 02:24:30 EDT

DaneJasper : You might be surprised by the usage. We've found that most units do get some use, despite being in residential areas and completely un-marked, so to speak. It will vary based upon density of the area - nodes in apartments seem to get one to two daily users, and we just turned up two nodes in a duplex in San Francisco that are getting 10 users per day!

That said, obviously having density is good - if it's city wide, you can promote it city-wide, etc. This requires a lot of participants, which we're not likely to get in very many locations outside of Sonoma County and San Francisco perhaps.

That said, we DO want to encourage everyone to participate, so the idea is a banner ad revenue share for the entire network, despite the fact that your particular site might get less (or no) use in a given month. If the network earns $5,000 in a month, and there are 1000 hosts, the concept is for us to share evenly, 50% split, then split between all of the hosts. This would, in this example, result in a credit of $2.50 toward your service - regardless of actual use of the access point.

Hopefully this fosters a community feeling, encourages many folks to deploy, and encourages people to encourage others to use the network as well.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Wed, 20 Jun 2007 01:37:54 EDT

veloslave : If I were located somewhere near the downtown I would be all over it... but alas I am in a residential neighborhood and I doubt my neighbors would use it and I wouldn't want to advertise in any way so people would drive here for a connection.

I keep dreaming of a 20 or 50 Mb connection that I can share with some neighbors... maybe even subsidize my IP... ah someday ;)

I like the idea of the banner ad revenue... it really seems like a great idea for a good location.
--
Mom was right.... I NEED fiber!

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:55:45 EDT

DaneJasper : I might have it backwards - you can hack the Meraki to run OpenWRT, but I'm not sure if the Meraki OS will run on other hardware.

»wiki.openwrt.org/OpenWrtDocs/Har···aki/Mini

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:33:21 EDT

guhuna :

said by DaneJasper :

There ARE some folks hacking this OS/software into other hardware, but it's complex and not very well supported.
-Dane

I'd like to know a little bit more on that subject. :D I have 3 different wireless A/P's I can fool around with. One linky one Netgear and one that's literally homemade that runs DD-WRT.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 19:14:22 EDT

DaneJasper : Our challenge is that this is a mesh network - so it requires a specific bit of hardware and firmware. There ARE some folks hacking this OS/software into other hardware, but it's complex and not very well supported.

So - one issue may be that customers already have APs, and would like to offer access but cannot become part of the mesh network. We'll keep that in mind.

The benefits of the Meraki hardware are of course the mesh, plus security and authentication. It also promises to provide tiers of access, free bandwidth limited access which is ad supported as well as faster access which might be WPA authenticated.

The security portion is important - an open AP can be a magnet for abuse, and having logs showing who used what IP and when is very useful when the authorities come knocking. In other words, being able to prove that you, the DSL end-user who is hosting the gear was NOT the person who did the bad thing saves an awful lot of explaining. :)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 18:06:23 EDT

guhuna : Same here, when I had mine setup no one logged into it. I had 2 dish type antennas pointing outside my window yet no one ever connected.

I have my own equipment also just for the hotspot.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:10:10 EDT

bobrk : I'd go for it, too. I used to host one back when I had static ip service, but I couldn't afford that after I got laid off. I might consider going back on now that I've been working, but the only thing is, I'm in a residential neighborhood further away from SJSU than Djdeadly and I doubt that it would get much traffic. I just did it for the fun of it before, and I don't think any other Sonic customers were in the area because nobody ever logged on.

I have my own equipment for this so I wouldn't be interested in paying for it.
--
Iraq Coalition Deaths | bobrk

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 04:09:56 EDT

Djdeadly : I'll get you the banner size and speed when i get in range of the signal hopefully later on today.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 03:40:46 EDT

DaneJasper : Yes, we're considering Meraki as a potential solution. The goal is to work together with many customers to create a large mesh, with everyone sharing the revenue upside when it's used.

How fast is the Metrofi service, and how large is their advertisement banner space?

We're thinking of less than 1Mbps service for free, with an ad bar which would be the same shape, size and location as the "pop-up blocked" or "active-x script blocked" bar that you'll see come up now and then in most browsers. The ad bar displays an ad, and also has a local search input window that does a google search with the lat/long of the nearest AP pre-loaded.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 03:01:46 EDT

Djdeadly : Looks like your using Meraki hardware.

I'd be interested, We are located 1 block from the SJSU campus with tons of students during the school. Yet the signal is too poor to reach over here so having some access points setup around here would be good but I'm not sure how you would compete with metrofi here. They offer free net access but the service is slow and the banner ad sucks. I would think of using a captive banner every couple minutes because I hate seeing that iframe when browsing. Another thing that would be nice is the option to add our own ad campaigns in something like openads.

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Mon, 18 Jun 2007 00:17:39 EDT

DaneJasper : Ya, that's a good idea. Basically, the units cost us $49, so we were thinking of offering them at a subsidized price point, perhaps somewhere between $25 and $39. For customers in key (downtown) locations, perhaps we'd go even deeper than this, if we think they'll get some significant use.

It's an interesting idea to offset the cost with the credit, but it might be a bit of a task to keep track. :)

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 17 Jun 2007 17:39:26 EDT

JohnInSJ : Is it optional to buy it? I went out and bought a $15 802.11b gateway just for the hotspot when I set mine up a few years ago.

One way to do it "cost free" to those deploying it is to give it to them, then let them work it off via the usage payment - basically they'd get no benefit (but also have no cost) until they broke even on the kickback for usage (however that's payed out...)

I guess if I had a reasonable expectation to break even in a year or less I'd still be willing to fork out the $$ for it myself... but it sound like we have to use the one you're providing either way?
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 17 Jun 2007 16:32:24 EDT

DaneJasper : Thanks for the feedback John. This new solution would be far easier to use and would offer free access, so it might attract a lot more actual use - a key metric.

I do like the "everyone shares the same credit" concept. It means that those in high traffic (living above a coffee shop) and low traffic (on an acre in the country) both are encouraged to deploy and to promote use of the network.

What are your thoughts on equipment cost? The new gear plugs in to anything which offers an IP via DHCP, so there's no other config, and you can put it behind a router or a switch (if you have multiple IPs from us). The equipment costs us $49 today. As a host, what are your thoughts on buying this gear?

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sun, 17 Jun 2007 15:30:23 EDT

JohnInSJ : Uh... I am hosting a hotspot, the old style one.

I would not mind at all continuing doing so in whatever form it takes. It would be nice if it didn't burn one of my 8 IP addresses, I think I'm now using 6 or 7 of em now (had no idea I would end up using so many of em!) but I can live with it.

I never get much traffic on mine, but I did already do the isolation/bandwidth capping myself, so if you're going to take over the bandwidth capping that would be fine as well.

I never did have a concern about security - the downside is minimal for most configurations - no different then anything else on 'the internet' as it looks the same to the rest of my out-facing machines.

So yep, count me in. A monthly base credit would actually be more incentive for me (doesn't have to be a ton of money - a buck or so is plenty - covers electricity and helps defray the cost of the Wireless gateway) vs actual use credit - and would simplify your accounting maybe...
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 16 Jun 2007 21:40:06 EDT

DaneJasper : Cool, thanks for your thoughts. Both of these items have been included. LAN isolation is part of the config, so you don't need to worry about your systems seeing traffic from the WiFi side.

Also, the radio has better than average output - BUT, the cool part is that it forms a mesh with other radios. So, you could put on at the front of the house, one at the back, one in the detached garage, the granny unit - the neighbor's house - etc. Each unit repeats the signal onward, growing the mesh.

-Dane

Re: Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 16 Jun 2007 18:32:42 EDT

erifax : I would host a hotspot if I could conveniently isolate the traffic from the rest of my network. It would also be extremely helpful if the device had longer range of broadcast or an antenna that could be used to to cast a wider net.

I've gone to enough places and wished I had WiFi access that I could legitimately use. I would participate if only to ease this burden on other folks.

Hosting a WiFi hotspot?

Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:14:17 EDT

DaneJasper : I'm interested in hearing end-user feedback and thoughts on hosting WiFi. We're experimenting with a solution that would allow customers to easily and securely host WiFi for free use by others, bandwidth capped so that it doesn't use much of your bandwidth. The free users would have an ad bar displayed in their browser, and there would be some revenue shared as credits to your DSL bill.

Any thoughts, concerns, ideas? What would it take to motivate you to participate? Are you interested? What worries would you have about this? Does it interest or excite you? Please, I'd love to hear things like "I'd participate if ...." type responses, or "I wouldn't participate because ...."

Thanks for any feedback!

-Dane