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| Dont be spoiled consumers Most ISPs are doing what they can to stay in business while providing an "all you can eat" interface to the Internet.
Other countries are doing better due to government assistance, smaller footprint, less legacy equipment, etc., not because the ISPs have somehow found the holy grail of consumer satisfaction.
If the US wanted to move forward in this area, the govmt would have to provide more incentives and support because, having worked with ISPs for years now, I know that most of the time there really isnt any money being made. Only the ISPs who can afford to lose money for the longest duration will survive - most likely ATT and VZ on the telephone side. Those two have other sources of income that companies such as Earthlink and Speakeasy don't.
NOw with everyone downloading movies all the time, ISPs will be forced to upgrade cabling/circuits and hardware to accomodate the inreased bandwidth needs. What do they get from that from you, the consumer? Nothing. Just more b*tching because the connections are now clogged.
The future will most likely see download limitations. And for ISPs who don't limit, they will be flooded with bandwidth hogs from other ISPs, and eventually suffer the consequences and be forced to make hard choices.
Back in the day "unlimited" was viable, but with today's video splurge, dont fool yourselves. If ther's nothing to gain from continual upgrades of infrastructure resources, dont be surprised to get a call one day from your ISP informing you that they're not interested in you as their customer since all you do is download HD-DVD pirated movies from Giganews 24/7, and to find somewhere else to do it. | |
| DSLTECH,
First, we have population densities that meet or far exceed those of other countries. I mean, I am not advocating we wire remote parts of Alaska here. However, we have MAJOR metropolitan cities (Atlanta, Chicago, New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, etc) with highly dense populations. These areas could easily be wired for fiber and provided to everyone in a cost effective way that makes money. In most large cities, people are relatively close to one another. Hence, the excuse we are not Japan etc is B.S. in it's full capacity. Second, we pay PLENTY of taxes and these same companies get PLENTY of kickbacks from our tax money to build out. Don't give me that long story about how these companies would need more money. Hell, most are already given exclusive rights to areas and tons of money to build in subsidies. The only difference, the companies in Japan, Sweden, Korea use it to build fiber. The companies here pocket most of it, and build a craptastic network that barely suits capacity. | |
 60127178K.U. Sweet 16Premium
join:2001-02-15
Wichita, KS
kudos:1 | reply to DSLTech5
Pirated HD-DVD movies at Giganews? You don't say!  | |
| reply to DSLTech5
said by DSLTech5:Most ISPs are doing what they can to stay in business while providing an "all you can eat" interface to the Internet. Back in the day "unlimited" was viable, but with today's video splurge, dont fool yourselves. If ther's nothing to gain from continual upgrades of infrastructure resources, dont be surprised to get a call one day from your ISP informing you that they're not interested in you as their customer since all you do is download HD-DVD pirated movies from Giganews 24/7, and to find somewhere else to do it. Finally, someone who understands business and economics and understands that nothing comes for free. Even those countries with lower monthly ISP charges, pay for the difference in gov't taxes.
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| reply to jc100
If you think wiring a major city with fiber to everyone is "easy" you are an ignorant person with no experience in telecommunications.
List me the subsidies that Cable CO's received. List me the subsidies that Telco's receive. Tac breaks are not subsidies. Sweden has a 70% tax rate, Japan near that, Korea is smaller than NY with almost 3x the amount of people, mostly congregated in major metropolitan cities. Not everywhere in Korea or Japan have these services available.
America works on a free market capitalistic society. If you do not like something you have the ability to change that with hard work and your own capital. If the telco are doing such a bad job why start your own ISP? You should have thousands of customers ready to sign up any minute.
OH BTW the current price per meg of whole sale bandwidth is between $15 and $50 dollars. You do the math to see how much you should charge for everyone to get 100 meg symmetrical services, not including the cost of delivery. | |
plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY | reply to jc100
said by jc100:DSLTECH, First, we have population densities that meet or far exceed those of other countries. I mean, I am not advocating we wire remote parts of Alaska here. However, we have MAJOR metropolitan cities (Atlanta, Chicago, New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, etc) with highly dense populations. These areas could easily be wired for fiber and provided to everyone in a cost effective way that makes money. In most large cities, people are relatively close to one another. Hence, the excuse we are not Japan etc is B.S. in it's full capacity. Second, we pay PLENTY of taxes and these same companies get PLENTY of kickbacks from our tax money to build out. Don't give me that long story about how these companies would need more money. Hell, most are already given exclusive rights to areas and tons of money to build in subsidies. The only difference, the companies in Japan, Sweden, Korea use it to build fiber. The companies here pocket most of it, and build a craptastic network that barely suits capacity. its not BS at all. the profit generated from these dense areas is used to subsidise deployments into the suburbs. thats why you get the same speed in both areas while the cost of providing service to each area is dramatically different. | |
| reply to jc100
said by jc100:DSLTECH, First, we have population densities that meet or far exceed those of other countries. I mean, I am not advocating we wire remote parts of Alaska here. However, we have MAJOR metropolitan cities (Atlanta, Chicago, New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, etc) with highly dense populations. These areas could easily be wired for fiber and provided to everyone in a cost effective way that makes money. In most large cities, people are relatively close to one another. Hence, the excuse we are not Japan etc is B.S. in it's full capacity. Second, we pay PLENTY of taxes and these same companies get PLENTY of kickbacks from our tax money to build out. Don't give me that long story about how these companies would need more money. Hell, most are already given exclusive rights to areas and tons of money to build in subsidies. The only difference, the companies in Japan, Sweden, Korea use it to build fiber. The companies here pocket most of it, and build a craptastic network that barely suits capacity. This is easily one of the most ignorant posts ever made on BBR. The US has population densities meeting or exceeding those of Korea and Japan? On what planet? Definitely not on Earth it doesn't.
Japan averages over 1000 people per square mile, Korea about 400 - 700 hundred people per square mile. The US? 25 - 49 people per square mile moron. Even in the big metro areas here people don't live a closely as they do in Asia. Here people live in suburbs and subdivisions, in Asia a lot more families live in MDU's. Atlanta and Los Angeles?! Are you fcking kidding me? Are you even aware of how large the L.A. and Atlanta metro areas are in square miles? They don't even come close to touching the population densities of Tokyo, Kyoto, or Seoul.
*Thinking to myself, "This moron actually said Atlanta, L.A.,San Francisco, and Las Vegas."
Please reply defending your ignorance. I have to see what kind of nonsense you use to rationalize the BS you made up. | |
 morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | reply to truocchio
said by truocchio:List me the subsidies that Telco's receive. Tac breaks are not subsidies. uh, where have you been? Pennsylvania gave Verizon billions in tax breaks for their promise (broken!) to wire the state with 40mb symmetrical speeds. THAT IS IS HUGE SUBSIDY!
verizon gets billions off their tax bill in exchange for providing speeds to the entire state. then they don't provide those speeds or anywhere near those speeds. dirty fucking thieves. | |
2 edits | reply to truocchio
First off, TAX BREAKS ARE SUBSIDIES. You know how many MILLIONS these companies save by not having to pay taxes or a limited amount for X years? Second, our wonderful politicians give many of these ISPS exclusive rights to an area. Competition free, price what you want, hand outs. What do you call that? Good will? Give me a break. These companies are pandered to on the highest of levels. Sure, they make their money in big cities to wire smaller ones. You think you are a rocket scientist for pointing that out? However, what you also forget are that they once again get large amount of incentives to wire the suburbs. Trust me,
they are extending past the large cities cause they feel like it. Plenty of profit is to be made in smaller areas with all the kickbacks they receive. Third, maybe if you knew about other countries, you'd have a clue on what you were saying. 1 USD = APPROX 7 SEK (Sweden)
Individual taxes
Individual earned income is taxed mainly by municipality of residence, at rates ranging from 29 to 34
percent. On taxable earnings above SEK 284,300, individuals pay another 20 percent and above SEK 430,100
another 5 percent in national income tax. In addition, compulsory pension contributions effectively increase
the tax rate by roughly 1 percent on incomes below SEK 329,200.
Net income from capital �€“ interest, dividends, capital gains, etc. �€“ is taxed at 30 percent.
Interest payments
are fully deductible. Up to 100 percent of capital losses may be deducted from capital gains, but in some
cases only 70 percent of the losses are deductible. A deficit in the calculation of net capital income results
in a tax reduction of 30 percent of the deficit up to SEK 100,000. On deficit above SEK 100,000, the tax
reduction is 20 percent.
Personal wealth above a value of SEK 1.5 million for single people and SEK 2.0 million for couple taxed jointly
is taxed at a rate of 1.5 percent. Wealth includes bank accounts, stocks, real estate, cars, boats, jewellery,
etc. In addition, singlefamily
houses are taxed at a national rate of 1.0 percent of assessed value.
So GET a CLUE before you speak. You obviously have NO IDEA how the world works. Second, for their supposedly high tax rates (based on income level, which the U.S. ALSO SHARES), they get:
Free Health Care
Low Cost / Free Education
So please give me a break. You DO NOT understand and pretend to act like you do. Quite frankly, our government socializes plenty. You like your Emergency services right? Guess what, federal dollars go to help these agencies / first responders. You enjoy having your kids go to school? Guess what, schools receive federal dollars to subsidize local income taxes. You got a family member receiving social security? Guess what, that's government run.
Yet, let's look at this. You join the military. You got free social health care. We donate billions to developing countries to give them free health care.
However, we cannot spend the money to build up our internet infrastructure? We practically pay the same taxes as Sweden and get FAR LESS BANG FOR OUR BUCK. | |
| reply to morbo
I agree that Verizon stiffed Pennsylvania. But subsidies and tax breaks are not the same thing by definition. »www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie···ct=title
Tax breaks are used as incentives to entice business to act where they may not have in a full tax environment.
I know you are informed about the BB market in the US but I wanted to make clear that no SUBSIDIES are being given to Cable and Telco's. As an ISP I dont have to charge sales tax to my customers because of a federal moratorium on internet tax. Is my business being subsidized? Not really. | |
1 edit | reply to morbo
Double Post . | |
| reply to morbo
Re: Dont be spoiled consumers Trolls like Tru simply don't speak facts. I pointed out in my argument Sweden pays similar income tax rates as the U.S. Yet, for their money, they get Free Health Care, Low Cost / Free University Tuition, and one of the fastest internet networks around. | |
morboComplete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000 | reply to truocchio
the end result is the same---verizon has billions more in its pockets than it would have without the tax breaks. AND they did nothing. so basically, free money.
your comparison re: internet tax is not valid. if you/your business didn't have to pay business taxes (not your customers sales tax) then the comparison would be valid. | | |
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1 edit | reply to soothsayer15
First off you lost the argument by resorting to name calling and trying to mask swears.
NYC is 10,292/km² in 2005 , and those are only people hit by the census , in reality its more in the 12,000/km² range as well.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City
And now when comparing the densities , you claim to compare a city with a country , a big no-no when arguing , try arguing apples to apples not apples to oranges.
And just in case you want to see how many for yourself.
»www.answers.com/topic/list-of-se···-density
Feel free to lick the big big toe on the foot you shoved in your mouth ok  Thank you come again.
Edited links and density to give better representation. | |
| reply to soothsayer15
Ah Yes,
Another troll that loves to talk big.
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_se···_density
Check out population densities.
Stockholm, Sweden 4,073/km² (10,549/sq mi)
Hummm... Many U.S. cities far exceed Stockholm in density.
Guess how fast their ISPS are there?
Seoul, South Korea 16,391/km² (42,452/sq mi)
Tokyo, Japan 13,800/km² (35,742/sq mi) [1]
Wow, We still beat them on several cities. Maybe a few I said were overstated, but check the list.
So once again, another troll that doesn't know his / her facts. While I overstated, I am not far off by saying many cities in the U.S. FAR EXCEED the population densities of countries that have fast internet. | |
plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY | reply to jc100
said by jc100:Trolls like Tru simply don't speak facts. I pointed out in my argument Sweden pays similar income tax rates as the U.S. Yet, for their money, they get Free Health Care, Low Cost / Free University Tuition, and one of the fastest internet networks around. why do you compare only income tax? probably because its the only way you can make your argument work.
if you are going to talk taxes you need to include ALL taxes, direct and indirect. you are comparing apples to oranges here. | |
| Plat, Are you BLIND? READ BELOW THIS POST. I stated all taxes, but in terms of making my post smaller than the below post, I KEPT IT SIMPLE in explanation. So therefore, LOOK BEFORE you COMMENT!! | |
| reply to fAcEtIOUs
Well since you don't, you might wish to scroll through these posts and educate yourself. Friendly advice. | |
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| reply to jc100
And notice NYC is not far behind Seoul on population density. They are drinking the corporate kool aid again , after all we all know they don't lie to us ever.
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"It's always funny until someone gets hurt......and then it's absolutely friggin' hysterical!" | |
plat2on1
join:2002-08-21
Hopewell Junction, NY | reply to jc100
said by jc100:Plat, Are you BLIND? READ BELOW THIS POST. I stated all taxes, but in terms of making my post smaller than the below post, I KEPT IT SIMPLE in explanation. So therefore, LOOK BEFORE you COMMENT!! you just don't get it do you. | |
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