Re: Talk about steep punishment in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18559548 en Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:54:14 EDT Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:54:14 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18564119 hpguru :
said by La Luna See Profile :

New studies show that ... where there's been a moratorium placed on the death penalty, murders have actually increased, as well as when death sentences are commuted:

There is no death penalty here where I live. I honestly cannot remember when the last murder occurred here. Yet almost everyone I know owns at least ten firearms and about half of them carry a concealed weapon on their person or in their automobile. So with no death penalty and all these folks packing heat, we ought to be filling each other with holes rather than your "study". I guess we're all just a bunch of good ole boys never meanin' no harm. :)
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said by morbo See Profile :

it's obvious we are just going to disagree on the death penalty and whether or not it is a deterrent.
How about this?

We get rid of the death penalty if life without parole would equal the following:

- no vists from anyone except legal council and no news of personal well-being should be allowed out
- no phone calls in or out
- in their cells 23 hours a day
- go back to hard labor

OR, the condemned could have a choice. Death penalty or be the subject of medical experiments. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562834 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:08:35 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562543 cork1958 :
said by GilbertMark See Profile :

said by Chiyo See Profile :

WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Impressive, if we had harsh justice like this in this country we could solve a lot of our nation's woes.
And didn't take so long to carry the sentence out!!
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562543 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 07:03:37 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562295 Asmodeus :
said by TigerNutz See Profile :

said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea.

It would work if it were televised during prime time.
Yeah, thats it! Another reality TV show!

now for a catchy title.......
actually it would work if the death penalty itself had any teeth... as it stands now, you have death row inmates who are without a shadow of a doubt guilty of the murders that they have committed, rotting and waiting for their time to finally pay their victims, their families and society the justice that is wanting... however, because of the current legal horsecrap that is involved in death penalty cases, they are allowed appeal after appeal after appeal, which protracts the process for many years and in some cases going into decades... it's a miscarriage of justice to the real victims that this is allowed to happen and all it does is allow the time to go by to strike sympathy in the hearts of people to embrace the murderer not the murdered, to keep the candle burning for the living sub-human evil, drech that killed for their own selfish reasons and forget those that were inflicted with that selfishness...

that's why the death penalty has been allowed to come under attack and become a toothless set of statutes with no end in sight to rectifying it... either remove it completely or revamp it completely, but something must be done either way...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562295 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 03:17:40 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562284 Asmodeus :
said by morbo See Profile :

it's obvious we are just going to disagree on the death penalty and whether or not it is a deterrent.
that's right... go ahead and close your mind off to a subject that is so complex that you've thrown in the towel in the name of agreeing to disagree... like i said before, you are limited in your thinking...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562284 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 03:10:09 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562281 Asmodeus :
said by morbo See Profile :

deterrent meaning "fear of punishment" and so people refrain from committing crimes to begin with. not people that commit crimes (in your example, they are dead) are deterred from committing future crimes.
it means both things, but i suppose you're a little limited in you thinking...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18562281 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 03:08:22 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561902 rmdir : If they kill you for taking fiber, wonder what they'd do to Spamford Wallace and his type?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561902 Mon, 25 Jun 2007 00:09:26 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561381 GercekSeytan :
said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea.

The harsher the punishment never seems to work, but no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime?
Ahem. No one has been hanged in (the) Republic of Turkey in nearly 30 years. There could indeed be a problem. ;)

»archives.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/meas···dex.html
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Yes, it is I, the resident crackpot and curmudgeon.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561381 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 22:07:45 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561343 supergirl : Nah, nah, I steal no fiber. Honest. Honest man. No fiber here. No fiber. ROFLMAO!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561343 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:56:30 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561308 Paulg : "Naked up-side-down crusifictions at half time of Monday night football"

-George Carlin

(I cant figure out how to spell it)
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I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561308 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:44:14 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561244 insomniac84 : No may lord help you from the violent criminals you want on the streets.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561244 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:26:07 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561167 morbo : recheck my sources? :D it's all my opinion. not from a book or other "source", like the always objective fox news article you posted.

it's obvious we are just going to disagree on the death penalty and whether or not it is a deterrent. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18561167 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 21:08:23 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560897 morbo :
said by insomniac84 See Profile :

If people are dumb and will keep committing crimes over and over again, the death penalty is the only solution. It would be the only way to prevent more crime and make this country safer.
lord help you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560897 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:03:32 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560803 insomniac84 : I thought you might say that, but what you said makes my argument stronger. If people are dumb and will keep committing crimes over and over again, the death penalty is the only solution. It would be the only way to prevent more crime and make this country safer.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560803 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:44:47 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560797 morbo : people will still commit crimes even when they know the mandatory sentence is something awful. people aren't logical. they don't think out situations before committing crimes. take a look at California's 3 strikes law. people still commit that 3rd strike all the time. a deterrent? maybe for some.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560797 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:42:39 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560770 pcnetworx1 : There is a George Carlin skit on just that idea... something about rope and boiling oil and the speed controlled by applause during Monday Night Football...

Sadly, it was ridiculous when he first said it. Now the sketch sounds plausible with reality TV.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560770 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:37:20 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560741 La Luna :
said by morbo See Profile :

said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime?
here's a secret: there will always be crime. harsh punishments are reflective of the society, and shouldn't be considered a deterrent (just like death penalty isn't effective as a deterrent--it's reflective of what society believes should happen to someone that did that crime).
Here's another secret, and it has nothing to do with your disingenuous comment about "what society believes should happen to someone who did that crime"....you might want to recheck your outdated sources. New studies show that the death penalty is indeed a deterrent, and in addition, where there's been a moratorium placed on the death penalty, murders have actually increased, as well as when death sentences are commuted:


Death penalty saves lives

A New Haven Register Editorial

06/24/2007

....Largely ignored in the death penalty debate is a third generation of studies by economists showing that both a death sentence and execution have a deterrent effect.

Since 2001, 12 studies by economists using better data and more advanced techniques have all found the death penalty is a strong deterrent, preventing from three to 18 more murders, according to a review of the studies given in 2006 testimony before Congress by Paul H. Rubin. Rubin is a professor of economics and law at Emory University.

One study looked at the impact of the 1972 through 1976 moratorium on executions following a U.S. Supreme Court ruling. It found an increase in murder rates during the moratorium and, 70 percent of the time, a drop when a state passed new death penalty legislation.

Another study by an economist at the University of Colorado not only found a deterrent effect but that commuting death sentences resulted in an increase of murders....

»www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm···81&rfi=6

John Lott: Death as Deterrent

Wednesday, June 20, 2007

By John Lott

....This research was conducted as violent crime rates were plummeting while executions were rising sharply. Between 1991 and 2000, there were 9,114 fewer murders per year, while the number of executions per year rose by 71.

Generally, the studies over the last decade that examined how the murder rates in each state changed as they changed their execution rate found that each execution saved the lives of roughly 15 to 18 potential murder victims. Overall, the rise in executions during the 1990s accounts for about 12 to 14 percent of the overall drop in murders.

Of course, there are exceptions to capital punishment deterring murder. One particular kind of crime where the death penalty shows no significant deterrent effect is multiple victim public shootings. This was the conclusion of a study I performed with Bill Landes at the University of Chicago.

This exception, however, is easy to explain: The vast majority of these killers either commit suicide or are killed at the scene of the crime. The threat of legal punishment, including the death penalty, doesn’t really affect their actions since so many of these criminals expect to die in the course of their crime.

Compared to more sophisticated Europeans, Americans long have been portrayed as uneducated yokels for supporting the death penalty. And the Supreme Court has looked to guidance from other countries in justifying limits on the death penalty. But Americans have stuck to their guns, with the majority of Americans in a May 2006 Gallup poll even feeling that the death penalty should be used more frequently.

Possibly it is time to concede that everyday Americans might actually know something that some members of the Supreme Court have had a hard time understanding.

»www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,284336,00.html

Studies say death penalty deters crime

By ROBERT TANNER

AP National Writer

Jun 11, 4:53 AM EDT

....."Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."

A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) - what am I going to do, hide them?".....

»hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/···=DEFAULT
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560741 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:31:56 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560589 insomniac84 : It not a deterrent to murder because it just means if someone feels stressed enough to want to kill themselves, they will just take the chance to kill the person causing their stress. But who the hell is going to rob a bank if they knew it was a mandatory death sentence? Or say California's three strikes law. What if it was the death penalty after 3 strikes? Felonies would drop significantly.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560589 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:55:52 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560509 pnh102 : Singapore has no crime problem and their system is pretty harsh as well.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560509 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:33:24 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560508 morbo :
said by insomniac84 See Profile :

If it was applied to alot more crimes, we might actually see crime drop.
i'm pro-death penalty. but i don't hold any illusion that it is a deterrent. it is a reflection of what society believes should happen to someone that murders someone. eye for an eye. justice. i also don't think the penalties for most other crimes deter either. if they did, there would be no crime. for example, penalties for drug possession/use don't deter anyone. you'll note that drug crimes are up, war on drugs is a failure, etc. take murder as another example. the punishment for 1st degree murder is death or life in prisonment, in most cases. but people are murdered all the time. hence, they don't consider the potential punishment as frightening enough not to commit the crime.

here's another example. certain middle eastern countries and asian/pacific island countries have some extreme punishments for theft. they cut off your hand. but that doesn't stop people from comitting crimes to being with.

i'm open to other options though. what would deter people from committing crimes?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560508 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:33:22 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560459 morbo : deterrent meaning "fear of punishment" and so people refrain from committing crimes to begin with. not people that commit crimes (in your example, they are dead) are deterred from committing future crimes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560459 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:23:28 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560345 TigerNutz :
said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea.

It would work if it were televised during prime time.
Yeah, thats it! Another reality TV show!

now for a catchy title.......]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560345 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:58:16 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560258 GOLFnSUN :
said by morbo See Profile :

said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime?
here's a secret: there will always be crime. harsh punishments are reflective of the society, and shouldn't be considered a deterrent (just like death penalty isn't effective as a deterrent--it's reflective of what society believes should happen to someone that did that crime).
Death is always a deterrent. The dead commit no more crimes.
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said by morbo See Profile :

said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime?
here's a secret: there will always be crime. harsh punishments are reflective of the society, and shouldn't be considered a deterrent (just like death penalty isn't effective as a deterrent--it's reflective of what society believes should happen to someone that did that crime).
Not a deterrent, but it is a solution.

Someone who is dead doesn't commit the crime again. Should be used here more.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18560037 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:39:00 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559839 morbo :
said by keyboard5684 See Profile :

no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime?
here's a secret: there will always be crime. harsh punishments are reflective of the society, and shouldn't be considered a deterrent (just like death penalty isn't effective as a deterrent--it's reflective of what society believes should happen to someone that did that crime).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559839 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:36:23 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559726 keyboard5684 : It does not seem to be working in many areas... Hmmm, Iraq hangs everybody, Turkey, well you get the idea.

The harsher the punishment never seems to work, but no one really has figured out a perfect system or we would never have crime?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559726 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:08:29 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559681 MrBentor : I think it depends on how much or how often you steal or rob. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559681 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 15:00:08 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559605 GilbertMark :
said by Chiyo See Profile :

WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
Impressive, if we had harsh justice like this in this country we could solve a lot of our nation's woes.
--
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559605 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:41:38 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559548 Lil Jon :
said by Chiyo See Profile :

WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime.
yup they're harsh over there...]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559548 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:26:45 EDT Re: Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559529 Mactron : Loose your life or a hand... choices, choices. :D ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559529 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:20:31 EDT Talk about steep punishment http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559484 Chiyo : WOW the death penalty! he didn't kill anyone nobodies life ws lost during the thefts. I think the punishment doesn't fit the crime. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18559484 Sun, 24 Jun 2007 14:07:22 EDT