Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... No, it's not entrapment. Neither the MPAA nor Media Defender are law enforcement agencies.
It definitely made me smile, though.
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 TheWickerMan
join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
| Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... said by Cabal  : Neither the MPAA nor Media Defender are law enforcement agencies. They seem to think they are. | |
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jc1350
join:2004-09-23 | It may not be entrapment, but it should be illegal under the various computer abuse/fraud laws since they are literally spreading a trojan horse and misrepresenting the code they are offering. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... said by jc1350 :It may not be entrapment, but it should be illegal under the various computer abuse/fraud laws since they are literally spreading a trojan horse and misrepresenting the code they are offering. I concur. This is spyware at it's worst. I would be interested to get ahold of the program they offered and run it in a VM to see if there's anything in the EULA that explains itself.
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BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| said by jc1350 :It may not be entrapment, but it should be illegal under the various computer abuse/fraud laws since they are literally spreading a trojan horse and misrepresenting the code they are offering. Kind of like the cocaine user that calls the cops after he's sold baking soda. This is your argument? "How dare they do illegal things trying to get me to stop doing illegal things myself!!!!"
Hard to feel sorry for the suckers that downloaded the spyware crap. They were trying to obtain movies ilegally which makes them more expensive for me, a law a biding citizen, so screw them. | |
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Maddogmike
Premium
join:2007-06-21
Cleveland, OH
| Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... Well, i agree with your point, but i also agree with said downloader, corporations continue to get away with these things, when do they ever get into trouble when they themselves do illegal things. It's always gonna be this way.  | |
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| | boober321
join:2003-07-15
Milwaukee, WI
 ·ViaTalk
| Gotta love the idiots that believe anything from the RIAA or MPAA would be cheaper "if only the pirates wouldn't steal..."
People can be so stupid. By the way BF69, how did you feel about the Sony rootkit, or all the price fixing that the BMG, Sony and alike were guilty of, not to mention the price gouging they commit every day, or their strong arm tactics against anyone not willing to bow to their ever whim...? | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... said by Mactron :said by Cabal :No, it's not entrapment... Your kidding... Right ?.. Sadly, probably not.   Why would he be kidding? Entrapment is something a person of law enforcement does. If the police had setup this site then it would have been entrapment.
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Mactron
el camino Real
Premium
join:2001-12-16
CM94sv | Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... When this lands in court, and it probably will. 
We'll see.  | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs: | Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... Ok. | |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Some help for you.
said by »www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm :ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case. | |
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Maxo's right.
Unless law enforcement is doing the enticing, it's not entrapment.
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| | jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| Actually it wouldn't be entrapment even if law enforcement ran it. It's like the "bait car". No one forces you to go to it and get the files. Now if someone from law enforcement said to use this site and you got arrested, that would be entrapment.
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Cabal
Premium
join:2007-01-21
Boston, MA
| said by Mactron :said by Cabal :No, it's not entrapment... Your kidding... Right ?.. Sadly, probably not. I hear dictionaries do more than prop up table legs, you might want to look into it.
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| Thanks Cabal! said by Cabal :said by Mactron :said by Cabal :No, it's not entrapment... Your kidding... Right ?.. Sadly, probably not. I hear dictionaries do more than prop up table legs, you might want to look into it. When you beat your wife, that's Domestic Abuse or Domestic Battery. That's a bad thing.
But when you have your neighbor beat your wife, that's battery w/ assault. That's a different thing.
Since the abuse comes from a different source, that makes it NOT domestic battery. Therefore it must be legal, ethical and generally a good thing to do; at least by your logic.
Well, go right on ahead then.
NV
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| Re: Thanks Cabal! said by Noah Vail :When you beat your wife, that's Domestic Abuse or Domestic Battery. That's a bad thing. But when you have your neighbor beat your wife, that's battery w/ assault. That's a different thing. Since the abuse comes from a different source, that makes it NOT domestic battery. Therefore it must be legal, ethical and generally a good thing to do; at least by your logic. Well, go right on ahead then. NV It's not a matter of legal or ethical. I don't think anyone is arguing FOR the RIAA here. It's despicable what they are doing, but.
You make his case for him.
True, if you beat your wife, it's domestic violence. If your neighbor beats your wife, it's assault. Both are bad.
But, if you beat your wife you'll be subject to a PFA, taking away quite a few of your civil rights, primarily your right to possess a deadly weapon.
If your neighbor beats your wife, he will not be subject to such restrictions. The end result (beaten wife) is the same, but the crimes are different.
Just as in this case, it is NOT entrapment. Only law enforcement can "entrap" people. It doesn't make it right, but that's just the law...
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Thanks Cabal! His point is because it was a source other than law enforcement it was ethically and legally a really good thing to do.
That is, as long as the source changes, the ethics of the action changes.
Unless I missed the part where he condemned Big Media for using malware techniques to further along a financial goal.
NV
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Thanks Cabal! said by Noah Vail :His point is because it was a source other than law enforcement it was ethically and legally a really good thing to do. No it's not. Nobody argued that. You pulled it out of thin air. The only point made anywhere in this thread is that this is not entrapment. | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | Re: Thanks Cabal! Let's see how Cabal feels about Big Media using Malware to reach it's financial goals.
said by Cabal :It definitely made me smile, though. Like TCH, I find it interesting that Cabal disappears entirely from the tread once his views are elucidated. It's almost as if the glaring light of reason is painful for him.
Nice of you to defend him. Care to clearly state your views on the issue?
NV
edited for missspelnig
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Thanks Cabal! said by Noah Vail :Care to clearly state your views on the issue? I think I've been clear on my views. I believe that this is not entrapment. | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Thanks Cabal! That would be a lovely answer, if that were the question being asked.
Once again, do you believe that applying this tactic as a means to improve Big Media's financial situation is ethical?
I wait here, pondering what question you will answer next.
NV
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Thanks Cabal! I never brought up the debate of ethics. I was only discussing the point of whether or not this is entrapment. I keep answering the question about whether or not I believe this is entrapment and I keep saying that I don't think it is. I've never made a statement regarding ethics. You have imposed an ethical opinion on me, but I have never made any statements regarding it. Ethics is an issue you brought up, not myself or Cabal .
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cableties
Premium
join:2005-01-27 | Wait. Not good analogy. One, you aren't married or have a wife (you don't own the movie or song). So unless, you are looking for the wife to beat... | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Thanks Cabal! The analogy is good for the point it makes, which is short and easily understandable.
That point is: You change the source of the abuse and you change the ethics of the abuse.
Cabal says true, I say false. The analogy serves to make that point.
Of course the analogy fails, once you take it places it wasn't designed to go.
Have you considered actually addressing the point of the debate?
NV
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N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | Re: Thanks Cabal! I'm PUNCHIN' OUT!! | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Thanks Cabal! So you agree with Cabal that the ethics of the issue changes, when the perpetrator changes.
Beating your own wife is unethical, having your neighbor beat your wife IS ethical. That is the Logic of the Mythical Cabal.
Law Enforcement, using a Malware Distribution Site to snare draw someone into a questionable situation is entrapment, therefore unethical.
A Big Media Conglomeration using Malware Distribution Site to snare draw someone into a questionable situation is not entrapment, therefore ethical.
Would you care to be on the record as saying you would create a portal for the distribution of malicious software (as long as you had financial motivation)? Or would you also like to join the growing ranks of those who are avoiding the core issue in full daylight?
Do tell.
NV
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| Re: Thanks Cabal! said by Noah Vail :So you agree with Cabal that the ethics of the issue changes, when the perpetrator changes. I don't recall ever bringing up ethics. You brought that up. Find the quote from me where I said this, or beating your wife, was ethical. | |
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Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: Thanks Cabal! Of course you haven't brought up ethics. That would address the core issue of the story and we can't have that can we.
Yet again, I restate my point hoping to find that magical combination that will dawn the moment of comprehension for you.
Point w/ analogy.
You beat Wife = Bad.
You pay neighbor to beat wife = Good.
That is Cabal's logic. No, Cabal didn't bring up beating his wife. That is why it is an analogy.
In this analogy we change the source of the abuse from you to your neighbor. Did the ethics of effecting a wife beating change?
Cabal's logic says Yes. As long as someone other than you beats your wife, it is a good and ethical thing to do.
I say No. Making sure you wife gets beat is bad, no matter who is doing the beating.
Can you follow that or do I need to type it in crayon?
You see, many of us here feel Big Media's attempt to pursue a financial goal by planting Malware is unethical.
Cabal's point is that as long as it isn't law enforcement it is ethical.
I say it doesn't matter who does it, it is unethical.
Did Cabal mention Ethics? No, and neither would you. That would bring the core issue of the story into focus. That would delineate the right and wrong of Big Media's actions.
I suppose you figure that as long as you keep derailing the dialog, you can avoid talking about right and wrong. That might be a pretty spiffy way to get out of defending Big Media's scummy methods.
I suppose if I were a shill for Big Media, I might do something like that too.
NV
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| how does this program know something is pirated, i mean i could just as easy rip a DVD to my laptop HDD for example for a long trip where i dont wanna lose or damage the optical media. and this ripping is 100% legal under US Copyright law's Fair Use clause.
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sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake... said by Kearnstd :and this ripping is 100% legal under US Copyright law's Fair Use clause. And 100% illegal under the DMCA.
Which wins? | |
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pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
·Hawaiian Telcom
| said by Kearnstd :how does this program know something is pirated, ... The program is quite complex as you can imagine... first, it scans your system for *.mp3, *.avi ...then it totals everything up.
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| well in a court of law in front of a jury, id imagine the DMCA wont hold water. why do you think in many questionable cases the MPAA and RIAA do not want a jury trial and prefer a scare settlement.
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Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | piracy has zero effect on the cost of music and movies imo, its what they blame but when i see stars getting 20mil+ for a film i begin to wonder.
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