Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to Noah Vail
Re: Thanks Cabal!
I never brought up the debate of ethics. I was only discussing the point of whether or not this is entrapment. I keep answering the question about whether or not I believe this is entrapment and I keep saying that I don't think it is. I've never made a statement regarding ethics. You have imposed an ethical opinion on me, but I have never made any statements regarding it. Ethics is an issue you brought up, not myself or Cabal  .
--
"Padre, nobody said war was fun now bowl!" - Sherman T Potter
»www.cafepress.com/maxolasersquad
»maxolasersquad.com/
»maxolasersquad.com/network/ My DSL Network Guide
»myspace.com/mlsquad |
|
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Maxo
Of course you haven't brought up ethics. That would address the core issue of the story and we can't have that can we.
Yet again, I restate my point hoping to find that magical combination that will dawn the moment of comprehension for you.
Point w/ analogy.
You beat Wife = Bad.
You pay neighbor to beat wife = Good.
That is Cabal's logic. No, Cabal didn't bring up beating his wife. That is why it is an analogy.
In this analogy we change the source of the abuse from you to your neighbor. Did the ethics of effecting a wife beating change?
Cabal's logic says Yes. As long as someone other than you beats your wife, it is a good and ethical thing to do.
I say No. Making sure you wife gets beat is bad, no matter who is doing the beating.
Can you follow that or do I need to type it in crayon?
You see, many of us here feel Big Media's attempt to pursue a financial goal by planting Malware is unethical.
Cabal's point is that as long as it isn't law enforcement it is ethical.
I say it doesn't matter who does it, it is unethical.
Did Cabal mention Ethics? No, and neither would you. That would bring the core issue of the story into focus. That would delineate the right and wrong of Big Media's actions.
I suppose you figure that as long as you keep derailing the dialog, you can avoid talking about right and wrong. That might be a pretty spiffy way to get out of defending Big Media's scummy methods.
I suppose if I were a shill for Big Media, I might do something like that too.
NV
--
The More Alike 2 Religions are, the Stronger the Hate between them. |
|
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Maxo
That would be a lovely answer, if that were the question being asked.
Once again, do you believe that applying this tactic as a means to improve Big Media's financial situation is ethical?
I wait here, pondering what question you will answer next.
NV
--
The More Alike 2 Religions are, the Stronger the Hate between them. |
|
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to Noah Vail
said by Noah Vail :So you agree with Cabal that the ethics of the issue changes, when the perpetrator changes. I don't recall ever bringing up ethics. You brought that up. Find the quote from me where I said this, or beating your wife, was ethical. |
|
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to Noah Vail
said by Noah Vail :Care to clearly state your views on the issue? I think I've been clear on my views. I believe that this is not entrapment. |
|
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ | reply to Cabal
Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake...
piracy has zero effect on the cost of music and movies imo, its what they blame but when i see stars getting 20mil+ for a film i begin to wonder.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
|
boober321
join:2003-07-15
Milwaukee, WI
 ·ViaTalk
| reply to BF69
Gotta love the idiots that believe anything from the RIAA or MPAA would be cheaper "if only the pirates wouldn't steal..."
People can be so stupid. By the way BF69, how did you feel about the Sony rootkit, or all the price fixing that the BMG, Sony and alike were guilty of, not to mention the price gouging they commit every day, or their strong arm tactics against anyone not willing to bow to their ever whim...? |
|
mattmag
Premium,ExMod 2000-03
join:2000-04-09
NW Illinois
clubs:
·Mediacom
| reply to Maxo
Re: Thanks Cabal!
said by Maxo :the analogy is only good to make Cabal 's point. You are right, if your neighbor beat your wife it would not be domestic abuse. Likewise, if the RIAA pulls this stunt it's not entrapment. You are incorrect about it being entrapment if law enforcement operates the site. The is no entrapment if the person visiting the site is not enticed or coerced into downloading the alleged material. The person does so on their own accord, and therefore are not entrapped. They are free to cease their action at any time.
Same holds true for police prostitution stings. Fully operated by the police, the suspects come up to the target on their own free will, ask for sex in exchange for money and they are busted. No entrapment. Not even close. |
|
Maddogmike
Premium
join:2007-06-21
Cleveland, OH
| reply to BF69
Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake...
Well, i agree with your point, but i also agree with said downloader, corporations continue to get away with these things, when do they ever get into trouble when they themselves do illegal things. It's always gonna be this way.  |
|
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to Maxo
Re: Thanks Cabal!
So you agree with Cabal that the ethics of the issue changes, when the perpetrator changes.
Beating your own wife is unethical, having your neighbor beat your wife IS ethical. That is the Logic of the Mythical Cabal.
Law Enforcement, using a Malware Distribution Site to snare draw someone into a questionable situation is entrapment, therefore unethical.
A Big Media Conglomeration using Malware Distribution Site to snare draw someone into a questionable situation is not entrapment, therefore ethical.
Would you care to be on the record as saying you would create a portal for the distribution of malicious software (as long as you had financial motivation)? Or would you also like to join the growing ranks of those who are avoiding the core issue in full daylight?
Do tell.
NV
--
The More Alike 2 Religions are, the Stronger the Hate between them. |
|
Noah Vail
Premium
join:2004-12-10
Lorton, VA
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | reply to Maxo
Let's see how Cabal feels about Big Media using Malware to reach it's financial goals.
said by Cabal :It definitely made me smile, though. Like TCH, I find it interesting that Cabal disappears entirely from the tread once his views are elucidated. It's almost as if the glaring light of reason is painful for him.
Nice of you to defend him. Care to clearly state your views on the issue?
NV
edited for missspelnig
--
The More Alike 2 Religions are, the Stronger the Hate between them. |
|
pog
Premium
join:2004-06-03
Kihei, HI
 ·Hawaiian Telcom
| reply to Kearnstd
Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake...
said by Kearnstd :how does this program know something is pirated, ... The program is quite complex as you can imagine... first, it scans your system for *.mp3, *.avi ...then it totals everything up.
--
My Site |
|
jsouth
Jsouth
join:2000-12-12
Wichita, KS
| reply to Maxo
Actually it wouldn't be entrapment even if law enforcement ran it. It's like the "bait car". No one forces you to go to it and get the files. Now if someone from law enforcement said to use this site and you got arrested, that would be entrapment.
--
Bush bashing is old. How about more solutions instead? |
|
BF69
join:2004-07-28
Camden, TN
| reply to jc1350
said by jc1350 :It may not be entrapment, but it should be illegal under the various computer abuse/fraud laws since they are literally spreading a trojan horse and misrepresenting the code they are offering. Kind of like the cocaine user that calls the cops after he's sold baking soda. This is your argument? "How dare they do illegal things trying to get me to stop doing illegal things myself!!!!"
Hard to feel sorry for the suckers that downloaded the spyware crap. They were trying to obtain movies ilegally which makes them more expensive for me, a law a biding citizen, so screw them. |
|
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to Noah Vail
Re: Thanks Cabal!
said by Noah Vail :The analogy is good for the point it makes, which is short and easily understandable. the analogy is only good to make Cabal 's point. You are right, if your neighbor beat your wife it would not be domestic abuse. Likewise, if the RIAA pulls this stunt it's not entrapment. |
|
Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to Noah Vail
said by Noah Vail :His point is because it was a source other than law enforcement it was ethically and legally a really good thing to do. No it's not. Nobody argued that. You pulled it out of thin air. The only point made anywhere in this thread is that this is not entrapment. |
|
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to Cabal
Re: Since I know *someone* will make the mistake...
well in a court of law in front of a jury, id imagine the DMCA wont hold water. why do you think in many questionable cases the MPAA and RIAA do not want a jury trial and prefer a scare settlement.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
|
sporkme
drop the crantini and move it, sister
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-01
Morristown, NJ
·Optimum Online
| reply to Kearnstd
said by Kearnstd :and this ripping is 100% legal under US Copyright law's Fair Use clause. And 100% illegal under the DMCA.
Which wins? |
|
Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to Cabal
how does this program know something is pirated, i mean i could just as easy rip a DVD to my laptop HDD for example for a long trip where i dont wanna lose or damage the optical media. and this ripping is 100% legal under US Copyright law's Fair Use clause.
--
[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
|
N3OGH
Bear patrol must be working like a charm
Premium
join:2003-11-11
Philly burbs | reply to Noah Vail
Re: Thanks Cabal!
I'm PUNCHIN' OUT!! |
|
