Topic 'Re: Idiocy...' in forum '' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18623697 en Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:08:15 EDT Sat, 11 Feb 2012 16:08:15 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18629886 said by snolsen:

The everyone in MS' QA department should be fired then?
Wouldn't be the first time. Windows ME anyone?
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What I used to be I no longer am... God, why can't you freeze time for my sake?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18629886 Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:13:34 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18628674
Kaspersky failed to implement the API correctly. just because an API/Program works doesn't mean there isn't a "Logic" error in the way the program was made, thus the code runs without error but really messes something up.

Trend Micro, Norton, and other companies have been using this same technique for awhile now(What Kaspersky calls ISwift) and none of those users have had any issues with CHKDSK or any other app

Kaspersky ISwift is has some serious Logic flaws in its code, and it is messing up the NTFS Idetifiers which in turn is not Mtaching up with the MFT(Master File Table) this is what is really causing the issue

if the Identifiers(Which ISwift changes) do not match what the Identifies should be in the MFT it causes a serious problem with CHDSK they must match....Kaspersky failed to update the MFT with the proper Values when it modifies the identifentifiers on the said files, so the original data in the MFT doesn't match the files ISwift changed.

this is "ALL KASPERSKY'S FAULT" Not Microsoft's.

Like i said Trend Micro's "Turbo Scan" has been using this for a bit now, so has Norton, and other products, and there have been no issues because these products update the MFT properly to reflect the changes to the identifiers that they made, Kaspersky failed to do this and has fragged peoples systems because of it

Persnoanlly if i was a businesses owner dealing with this, I would have every reason to file suit against them...there is definitly reasonable grounds to sue, loss of data, ect, you could most definitly sue them on this for sure, but it wouldn't be worth it unless you were a businesses....a EULA does not protect a software maker from damage "due to negligence" which is exactly what this is. There have been countless cases where a EULA said "We can not be held liable for any damages" yet a lawsuit was brought and the plantiff won, so don't buy to much into EULA'S its up to a judge if the cases deserves merit,

I sued a cellphone compnay once, even though the contract said "i cna't sue and must agree to arbitration
" a Judge threw out that clause stating i had "sufficent grounds to sue" due to harrassment, failure on the wireless company to provide adequate service" among other things

but this is definitly Kaspersky's fault

there right up there with norton, i would never install a piece of garbage software like this on my Machine, i thought Norton was bad, even McAfee (which i used for years) never fragged my computer...i don't even think Norton has ever fragged a PC this bad before...

how pathetic

Kaspersky gets a thumbs down from me for not manning up and admitting their mess up and doing the best they can to fix the problem.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18628674 Sat, 07 Jul 2007 09:45:02 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18625039 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18625039 Fri, 06 Jul 2007 15:33:29 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18624176
Kaspersky's blame is that they surely knew there was a problem and yet released it without resolving this with MS first. If they didn't know of the problem then every person in their QA department should be terminated.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18624176 Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:35:30 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18624044 said by ThrowDemsOut:

They blame Microsoft because the operating system let them break the directory structure. That is the same philosophy hackers use. MS should have prevented my exploit from happening - so that is their fault and not mine for creating the exploit.Actually--- that's not so much the case in this particular issue.

As I understand the issue, Kaspersky hasn't done anything that is proprietary or non-standard. From what I've read, their method uses a documented feature of the NTFS filesystem--- ie one that's supposed to work fine. However it turns out that NTFS backwards compatibility with CHKDSK wasn't properly tested by MS. Since this feature hasn't been widely used before (if it all) the issue hadn't come up.

So, basically, they're both right. Yes, the problem has arisen out of a feature in the NTFS that isn't backwards compatible with CHKDSK. MS's fault there...

... But since Kaspersky is using it, and breaking customers applications, Kaspersky is also at fault in the eyes of the user. I'm betting Kaspersky will have to change their programs before MS does....
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18624044 Fri, 06 Jul 2007 12:07:01 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18623981 said by ThrowDemsOut:

said by cali310:

If CHKDSK works before installing Kaspersky and doesn't after installing how can they blame MS??
They blame Microsoft because the operating system let them break the directory structure. That is the same philosophy hackers use. MS should have prevented my exploit from happening - so that is their fault and not mine for creating the exploit.
Insecure programming is the fault of the person who finds it? Really?
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Interested in open source engine management for your Subaru?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18623981 Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:51:38 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18623814 said by ThrowDemsOut:

said by cali310:

If CHKDSK works before installing Kaspersky and doesn't after installing how can they blame MS??
They blame Microsoft because the operating system let them break the directory structure. That is the same philosophy hackers use. MS should have prevented my exploit from happening - so that is their fault and not mine for creating the exploit.
no no NO. This is a feature of NTFS that has never been used heavily up untill now and it turns out that chkdsk chokes when encountering the tags because it was never properly tested !! This IS totally MS's fault for not properly testing their chkdsk program with all the features that NTFS file system supports.

Adi]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18623814 Fri, 06 Jul 2007 11:14:19 EDT Re: Idiocy... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Idiocy-18623778 said by cali310:

If CHKDSK works before installing Kaspersky and doesn't after installing how can they blame MS??
They blame Microsoft because the operating system let them break the directory structure. That is the same philosophy hackers use. MS should have prevented my exploit from happening - so that is their fault and not mine for creating the exploit.
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