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|  Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
 ·Comcast
 ·Aristotle Internet
| Re: File stealing techs - "Then we caught one well-seasoned Geek Squad Agent copying personal and pornographic images and video from our computer to his company-issued thumb drive"
Another reason to get familiar with a good Mum & Pop store, I have always advocated a local small business environment will stay true to their customers. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | They weren't stealing, they were copying the files.
Edit: This does not diminish the impropriety. The employees should be fired and their conduct prevented in future. I'm just clarifying that theft is the wrong category here. As far as the reports indicate, the techs copied without deleting, so the owners were not deprived of the files. | |
| | Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| Re: File stealing techs - said by swhx7  :They weren't stealing, they were copying the files. *Sigh* Once in a while, customers expect a service without getting shafted!
I have to think your post had the sarcasm button muted~! | |
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pelouzer
join:2006-08-06
Woolwine, VA | 
Lmao@offsite backup
I agree, self maintaining systems is way to go. | |
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brandon
Some truth included in this post.
Premium
join:2003-03-31
Hurley, MS
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | said by n1zuk :said by mers2 :said by swhx7 :They weren't stealing, they were copying the files. Translation: stealing files. No, no, you misunderstood. He was just performing a complimentary off-site backup for you...  I know this is a joke, but if he went to court, this would probably be his defense. I mean, to be safe and all, if something were to go wrong while installing iTunes and the hard drive fails, consumerist (or a real consumer, anyway) would be happy that their valuable vacation photos had been saved.
Otherwise, it's "you didn't install itunes like I said, you broke my computer, and you lost all of my irreplaceable pictures!"
And of course, after he completed the installation, he was going to delete the files off his thumb drive. Of course. | |
| | | | | | | BandHeight
join:2004-08-30
Portland, TX
| Re: File stealing techs - said by Blackhood5 :Now now... Careful. If we call this stealing, instead of copying, it gives the **AA more strength. /sarcasm  Yep.
Anyone who has to strictly limit / simplify the definition of "steal" in order to justify philosophical opposition to the RIAA (copyrights, generally) or allegiance to the idea of FOSS is either too mentally deficient to make rational, logical cases for these philosophies where they do exist or, alternatively, the philosophies are inherently fatally flawed. I suggest the former is the case. | |
| | | | | Desdinova
join:2003-01-26
Gaithersburg, MD
| Re: File stealing techs - "It's nice to know that If a hacker or tech copies file(s)or information on your system that result in them having your name, address, DOB, SSN, and/or a few account numbers and passwords it isn't depriving you of anything"
They're not; your data is still available for you to use. Now if they used that information and deprived me of the benefits accrued to my identity, then THAT'S stealing from me. Using the data is a completely different process from simply duplicating the data. | |
| | | | ydoucare
join:2003-03-12
Rensselaer, IN | Re: File stealing techs - Things like this make me thankful I can build and maintain my own systems. | |
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bigunk
Gort, Klattu Birada Nikto
join:2001-02-10
Santa Clarita, CA | Re: File stealing techs - That was mine too. I even went so far as to buy a floppy drive, but I took it back because I didn't know what I was doing. Had mine talking (terrible voice). A lot of fun. | |
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EGeezer
Go Bobcats
Premium
join:2002-08-04
Country!
 ·Callcentric
·RoadRunner Cable
·AT&T CallVantage
2 edits | said by Desdinova :They're not; your data is still available for you to use. Now if they used that information and deprived me of the benefits accrued to my identity, then THAT'S stealing from me. Using the data is a completely different process from simply duplicating the data. said by Sundance Kid :
You just keep thinkin' Butch. That's what you're good at.
Now, getting back to topic and off the unrelated P2P kiddie pseudolegal rants, the reality is that many people don't have the skills or tools to repair PCs. Consequently, they by necessity need to have someone else do the work, just as an IT pro may still need someone to rebuild an automobile transmission, install a garage door or remove an appendix.
Customers are not only paying for technical competence, they are relying on IT servicers to be objective in their analysis and recommendations and ethical in their practices.
With this in mind, I believe there is a professional, even a fiduciary level of responsibility associated with those who analyze and repair, upgrade or reconfigure systems for customers. Those who violate the trust or who intentionally allow systemic practices should be accountable for their actions.
In the meantime, PC users need to be educated to be wary, even of "brand name" services to the point of doing homework they shouldn't need to do, since the user may be in effect letting the servicer glimpse into their most private affairs.
--
The society which scorns excellence in plumbing as a humble activity and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy: neither its pipes or its theories will hold water.
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Owlbet
Ignite the Ice
Premium,MVM
join:2002-09-24
Palmer, AK
clubs:
·MTA Online
| said by EGeezer :Well, some folks at the Consumerist install a capture program on a PC, then take it to Geek Squad to have them install software. What happens from there on in should make you think twice about leaving sensitive data or even legally owned media on your system when taking it to a shop. Thankfully, some of us prefer to fix our own.
Recently, I started collecting computers to use as crunchers for Team Discovery. I've purchased (for cheap) three complete Dell sytems in various configurations. The first Dell had it's operating system completely reloaded by the previous owner. Smart choice!
The second Dell only had it's documents removed. The previous owner opted not to reformat and left the operating system and some high-end software intact. Once home with this computer, I booted right into the BIOS to begin a reformat and installation of the operating system. I never saw the desktop of that Dell after I purchased it from the previous owner. I wasn't after the data or even the software, I just wanted the computer.
The third Dell had nothing removed. The previous owner was selling me a computer complete with her treasured family photos. I asked why she didn't reload the operating system and she said she didn't know how. I told her that I wouldn't look at her pictures or other documents. I was going to reformat the computer the minute I got it home and that I didn't need to get to the desktop to do so.
While I never violated the privacy of the previous owners of these computers by browsing to see what was left behind, I made sure the previous owners didn't leave anything behind (hardware keyloggers, etc) to violate mine.
I've only taken a computer to a shop (CompUsa) once. Since that was an expensive endeavour, I've made it a point to learn how do "do-it-myself".
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: File stealing techs - said by Owlbet :The third Dell had nothing removed. The previous owner was selling me a computer complete with her treasured family photos. I asked why she didn't reload the operating system and she said she didn't know how. I told her that I wouldn't look at her pictures or other documents. I was going to reformat the computer the minute I got it home and that I didn't need to get to the desktop to do so. Another point to be made is with browser security. SOOOO many people now have their browsers store and remember their site passwords for them.
A dishonest tech or other employees could hijack your paypal account, or your hotmail account, Gmail, your IM, whatever so easily. Many people even have their bank passwords and stuff stored. Ouch.
Why make yourself a target....
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: File stealing techs - said by KrK :Another point to be made is with browser security. SOOOO many people now have their browsers store and remember their site passwords for them. A dishonest tech or other employees could hijack your paypal account, or your hotmail account, Gmail, your IM, whatever so easily. Many people even have their bank passwords and stuff stored. Ouch. Why make yourself a target....
At first I thought this was an excellent point. But don't all the browsers and password-manager programs require a master password to authenticate the user before they will fill in forms? (I don't use these but I've always seen this feature.)
On the general question, in the time it takes to locate and offload everything sensitive, a knowledgable user could fix almost any computer problem one way or another, at least if it's a desktop. The problem is that the people who use "Geek Squad" and similar services are almost exactly the ones who don't know how to backup or encrypt, and won't or don't have time to learn. (With laptop problems, more typically you would send it to the manufacturer.) | |
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mers2
Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-20
USA
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| Re: File stealing techs - said by swhx7 : At first I thought this was an excellent point. But don't all the browsers and password-manager programs require a master password to authenticate the user before they will fill in forms? (I don't use these but I've always seen this feature.) Firefox by default doesn't require a password for the password manager. The one password manager program I have doesn't have it set by default either. I had to set it to lock the passwords after so many minutes of inactivity. The average user is going to be lazy and not want to use a password.
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Team Discovery
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| | | | Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| said by swhx7 :On the general question, in the time it takes to locate and offload everything sensitive, a knowledgable user could fix almost any computer problem one way or another, at least if it's a desktop. The problem is that the people who use "Geek Squad" and similar services are almost exactly the ones who don't know how to backup or encrypt, and won't or don't have time to learn. (With laptop problems, more typically you would send it to the manufacturer.) What I don't understand is why someone would haul a 50 pound computer down to a shop to be repaired. I couldn't carry my 50 pound desktop down the elevator and all the way out to my parking stall. If I couldn't fix the problem and didn't have an extended warranty (which will expire and can't be further renewed when this computer is not even 3 years old), I would have a tech come over to my condo. I would watch everything he/she did so how would the tech be able to steal stuff off my computer? My friends all call a tech to come out. There is only one mom and pop computer store here anyways and they don't like to repair anything they didn't build. As for laptops, they go back to the manufacturer to be fixed so I don't see what the big problem is here.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason | |
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Capp
Capp
join:2005-03-30
Arlington, TX
| Re: File stealing techs - I, for one, Have never trusted store tech benches. I have known and worked with guys that were behind those benches and heard many a story of stuff like this.
With my personal company, I have helped hundreds of people with thier personal computers and I have not once copied files for my personal satisfaction. I do warn the user that if anything illegal is found, it will be reported, but I haven't yet found anything like this.
I'm not trying to sound stuck up or anything, but its trusted services like I provide that has led most of my clients to recommend me to family, friends, bosses, co-workers, relatives and neighbors. Most of my business has come from referrals and it has to do with being trusted. Its suprising and shocking the number of former Geek Squad customers I have that complained about their lack of customer service, their outrageous prices and the fact that they just don't seem like they care. I have taken people's computers to my office/home to be worked on and kept them for over a week at a time and was never questioned about what I had done with their sensitive information.
Not trying pat myself on the back or anything, but just reiterrating the point that small/medium size business owners are sometimes the better choice than taking it to your local Geek Squad or CompUSA tech bench.
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»www.Capp-Ware.com | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| said by swhx7 :At first I thought this was an excellent point. But don't all the browsers and password-manager programs require a master password to authenticate the user before they will fill in forms? (I don't use these but I've always seen this feature.) Nope. It's nice and easy for the average person. Hell, even my PC does it. If I surf to websites, the Auto-fill/password options usually just fill in the login/password.
There's a few sites (Critical financial stuff) where I make it a point to not let it remember my password. However, I do fix my PC and stuff myself, and nobody else accesses my home PC, so I'm not as high risk.... however, that wouldn't help most people if say their computer was stolen, or as in this case, it was taken in to a service for repair.
If they got online and started surfing to popular websites, who knows how many they could just log straight in as that user. And once there, they could hijack the accounts by changing the user info and passwords... etc
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
| | | | | Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| Re: File stealing techs - That, of course, is why anyone who is sane will never enable password remembering by any browser. I agree though that there are a lot of crazy folks with computers who do enable password keeping by their browsers. Maybe they are just ignorant but ignorance of security when using a computer to me indicates some degree of craziness as a sane person wouldn't use a computer without learning at least the basics of computer security. Gee...one of the first things I learned over eight years ago...actually over nine years ago as it was before I got my first computer was to never enable password keeping by a browser. How dumb can users be?
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason | |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| Re: File stealing techs - said by Mele20 :That, of course, is why anyone who is sane will never enable password remembering by any browser. . . . . . ignorance of security when using a computer to me indicates some degree of craziness. . . . . . How dumb can users be? Dumb and crazy are two different things, though it's possible to be both at the same time.
Crazy people usually aren't that dumb though, has been my experience, and dumb people are generally too dumb to be crazy. Craziness takes a certain savoir-faire.
Dumb and ignorant are two separate conditions, also.
Just a side thought, and not specifically security-related--
How much memory is consumed by a browser remembering a password, I wonder, vs. how much is consumed by the human brain remembering that same password? | |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | Re: File stealing techs - People who use Geek Squad do not know: Why computer Is slow,how to check e-mail,click yes on everything. | |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| JKK, I don't think I ever said or implied any excuse for these employees' behavior. It's deplorable and I don't know why you would conclude that my judgement was otherwise.
As for ignorance, etc., you may have mistaken a statement about computer knowledge for a statement about general knowledge. For the most part I don't know what's what in a car engine, for example, and my mechanic may not know the history of Indo-European languages, but it doesn't mean we're "uneducated". People just have different sets of knowledge.
Finally, I do think that figuring out how to identify and back up all the right files, or encrypt them, takes approximately as much time and effort as fixing most common computer problems. Common problems include such things as failing hardware devices, wrong or missing drivers, conflicts between programs, borked configurations. An above-average user can solve most of these by Google plus experimenting to rule out possible causes; an average user needs help with both the fix and the data protection.
If it's anything that would take more expertise, then Geek Squad won't know how either - they're not exactly engineers. They'll just use the "restore" disk. | |
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jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
Scottsdale, AZ
·Speakeasy
1 edit | Re: File stealing techs - I wasn't trying to pick your statement to death...only correct what seemed to like a very negative view. "The problem is that the people who use "Geek Squad" and similar services are almost exactly the ones who don't know how to backup or encrypt, and won't or don't have time to learn" isn't true. Would I call Geek Squad? No. Would I call someone else whom I think I should trust, after doing those things, and yes, I know how to do that and more? Yes and have. I merely thought your statement put all too many people in the same box. There are many of us out here that have to rely upon other services, many even have to call Geek Squad as they may live in a place where there is little else available, heaven help them.
If I took your statement wrong, I apologize, but be careful of how something is said. "Common problems include such things as failing hardware devices, wrong or missing drivers, conflicts between programs, borked configurations. An above-average user can solve most of these by Google plus experimenting to rule out possible causes", also rules out a huge number of us out here who have far more than the average person's knowledge but still have to take the conflicts sometimes outside their own abilities to fix. I was suggesting that those of us who are very computer literate still may not be able to do what needs to be done to fix something and are still left open to those who would steal their files, if they could. That is reprehensible and it sickens me to be in the position to have to count on those people unknowingly.
If I've misunderstood, once again, what you meant, I do apologize. I was not trying to get OT or nit pick. I was merely recognizing that I, and some others I know, for our own reasons have to rely upon others to do our fixing now when we were the ones doing the fixing in prior times. It's not a comfortable place to sit.
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JKK
Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!
»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| Re: File stealing techs - I probably did overstate a little.
Trying again: Customers of Geek Squad are unlikely to be reading forums like this, or getting good computer advice elsewhere. So they're three ways vulnerable: having to take the computer to a store for service, getting sketchy service at Best Buy, and in many cases being subject to the file-raiding. They'd be better off getting on-site service (as Mele notes), it would be more competent probably, but do they realize this? Maybe it would cost more and some can't afford it.
Yes this is a negative assessment, but it's hard to see how ethics and customer service will improve. Big businesses will just do whatever is profitable. Best Buy will make superficial changes and continue hiring the low-end people they can get for peanuts and not regulating them well, while presenting them to the public as real experts. And government in the US today is hardly on a trend to improving consumer protection.
The only long-run solution I can think of is user education. Maybe that can happen only by a new generation growing up with more familiarity with computers. | |
| 
Sindows 7
join:2006-09-13
Hope, BC | Maybe you should learn to use and maintain your own computer. | |
| | Kiwi
Premium
join:2003-05-26
USA
·Comcast
·Aristotle Internet
| Re: File stealing techs - said by Sindows 7 :Maybe you should learn to use and maintain your own computer. Funny & you forgot the /humour switch...LOL | |
| | | | x____
join:2003-02-13
____
clubs:
| said by Sindows 7 :Maybe you should learn to use and maintain your own computer. That's one of the reasons why I learned to fix my own PC. | |
| 
Vamp
5c077
Premium
join:2003-01-28
MD | You can't steal a file because it doesn't have physical existence.
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null | |
| 
rbdwarf
join:2007-01-21
Montreal, QC
| said by EGeezer :Well, some folks at the Consumerist install a capture program on a PC, then take it to Geek Squad to have them install software. What happens from there on in should make you think twice about leaving sensitive data or even legally owned media on your system when taking it to a shop.
Hell, I figured that most people would be wary of computer repair people after Gary Glitter took his computer to the shop and was promptly arrested for child p0rn.
They do look through your computer. Sending it to a shop is effectively giving away everything on your system.
--
Rob | |
| 
Sweet Witch
Be the flame, not the moth.
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-15
Gallifrey
·Comcast
| When I purchased my second computer I went to a local 'Mom and Pop' shop and picked out a 533mhz system. When I got it to the house and connected, I discovered that the previous owner was a guy in New Hampshire, and he had some interesting computing habits. The install was screwy so it went back three times to be 'fixed' (I ended up figuring it out on my own), and it was actually a 466mhz, but that was it for me. When that computer died, I built my own. No one uses my computer let alone works on it!
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"Love is three-quarters curiosity." - Giacomo Casanova | |
| 
MemphisPCGuy
Senior Systems Engineer
Premium
join:2004-05-09
Memphis, TN
·Comcast
| In some states Porn could be considered illegal due to community standards and the cops/feds/homeland security could have been called. Or, if there where home movies of their young children bathing naked... scary, I know.
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»www.memphispcguy.com | |
| 
Happyrat
Google Is Your Best Friend
Premium
join:2002-07-01
Disneyland
| Personally I used to do tech work a few years back.
My policy was to generally ignore anything I found on a customer's machine. To be honest, if I'd had to call the cops and file paperwork and testify against every yutz out there running a pirate copy of MS Office, I wouldn't have any customers left.
Fortunately I never ran into anything really nasty like kiddie pron, but even then I'd think long and hard before turning them in.
When it comes right down to it, we're techs people. We're not cops. Any tech who's seriously just trying to earn a buck couldn't care less about what your files are. That's simply the nature of the business.
--
Help save Netradio from Impossible Royalty Rates... »www.savenetradio.org/ | |
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See 7 replies to this post | |
jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
Scottsdale, AZ
·Speakeasy
| In all due regard, to do or not to do re: KP, that isn't the point to the OP, IMHO. The point is that anyone that cannot, for whatever reason, build and/or take care of their own system, is SOL. That is me and most technically knowledgeable, but not enough so to really handle the tough stuff. The unfortunate part of technology is that it has led to less and less privacy and the feeling of being one's own person. It has allowed for world wide and quick communication, but it has also resulted in those that will to have bits and pieces of our lives, and to maybe steal our IDs. It is, indeed, a sick world we live in when the very people we turn to for help are those people that just may heist our lives and sell to the nearest buyer. 
--
JKK
Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!
»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay
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keith2468
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-03
Winnipeg, MB
| Some people choose to work on their own computers.
Some people choose to work on their own cars.
Some people clean their own apartments.
Other people are busy (having social lives) and get some of that work done for them.
That people make these choices is no excuse for the "tradesman"/"professional" to violate the customer's privacy.
As a tradesman or professional, working unsupervised, making your living doing this work, you are in a special position of trust. And that is how the courts would view it if it came before the courts.
The only excuse would be, if in the course of your work, you stumble across something clearly illegal, like kiddie porn, you would notify the authorities so they could investigate.
Just like my fellow programmers and our managers should ban blackhats from future employment in our profession, and should campaign for stiff criminal penalties against them and their violations of public trust, the hardware end of the business should seek stiffer laws and codes of conduct for technicians.
--
(Virus&Hijacking FAQ + Submit suspected malware + Backups FAQ + Security FAQ TOC) | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| Re: File stealing techs - Personally, my policy is don't look at their data.
I may have to run their desktop, install and remove programs etc but I'm not going to deliberately snoop at their documents, pictures, histories etc.
I also make a point to telling people "If there's data on here that's confidential and you don't want me to see, you should remove it." I explain I'm not going to go looking for it, but in the course of diagnostics and backup it's possible I could be exposed to some of it accidentally. So I explain to them upfront about it.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | LOL Internet Is full of free porn | |
| alkaseltzer
join:2007-02-06
Palm Bay, FL
| I think invasion of privacy.Fraud,theft and losing your tech job throughout the industry is a small part.Ethical behavior is ingrained in some and absent from others.I'm sure these asses would copy money if they thought they would get away with it.Knowing what is right and choosing not to do it is a shame.Some people can justify anything.The ways of the world. | |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
·AT&T Southwest
| IMHO, a guy copying pr0n files to look at/add to his collection is a little different then if he was copying my documents, letters, logins, tax info, etc.
No harm no foul....
HOWEVER this should be a warning to guys who have "naughty" pictures of their WIVES or GIRLFRIENDS on their PC's they better make sure they protect them unless they escape into the "wild" for everyone else to look at.
These days with thumb drives and USB drives and the like it's getting easier and easier to keep private data off the PC if you need to send it in for a repair.
--
"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) | |
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See 6 replies to this post | |
Wildcatboy
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON | Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 26 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »File stealing techs -
stated reason was: Off topic. | |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | I do not know much about hardware so If something goes with my hardware why In the world I would take my computer to the Geek Squad? | |
| Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| i must say i found a computer dumped once when i worked at a supermarket and the drives where loose so i took em home. sadly they both had crashed heads but i was gunna snoop em. though i guess its different when something is dumped as garbage vs getting service where you expect some kinda privacy.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports | |
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File stealing techs -
