Kearnstd
Elf Wizard
Premium
join:2002-01-22
Mullica Hill, NJ
| reply to EGeezer
Re: File stealing techs -
i must say i found a computer dumped once when i worked at a supermarket and the drives where loose so i took em home. sadly they both had crashed heads but i was gunna snoop em. though i guess its different when something is dumped as garbage vs getting service where you expect some kinda privacy.
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[65 Arcanist]Filan(High Elf) Zone: Broadband Reports |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | reply to EGeezer
I do not know much about hardware so If something goes with my hardware why In the world I would take my computer to the Geek Squad? |
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
 ·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to jaykaykay
I probably did overstate a little.
Trying again: Customers of Geek Squad are unlikely to be reading forums like this, or getting good computer advice elsewhere. So they're three ways vulnerable: having to take the computer to a store for service, getting sketchy service at Best Buy, and in many cases being subject to the file-raiding. They'd be better off getting on-site service (as Mele notes), it would be more competent probably, but do they realize this? Maybe it would cost more and some can't afford it.
Yes this is a negative assessment, but it's hard to see how ethics and customer service will improve. Big businesses will just do whatever is profitable. Best Buy will make superficial changes and continue hiring the low-end people they can get for peanuts and not regulating them well, while presenting them to the public as real experts. And government in the US today is hardly on a trend to improving consumer protection.
The only long-run solution I can think of is user education. Maybe that can happen only by a new generation growing up with more familiarity with computers. |
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jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
Scottsdale, AZ
 ·Speakeasy
1 edit | reply to swhx7
I wasn't trying to pick your statement to death...only correct what seemed to like a very negative view. "The problem is that the people who use "Geek Squad" and similar services are almost exactly the ones who don't know how to backup or encrypt, and won't or don't have time to learn" isn't true. Would I call Geek Squad? No. Would I call someone else whom I think I should trust, after doing those things, and yes, I know how to do that and more? Yes and have. I merely thought your statement put all too many people in the same box. There are many of us out here that have to rely upon other services, many even have to call Geek Squad as they may live in a place where there is little else available, heaven help them.
If I took your statement wrong, I apologize, but be careful of how something is said. "Common problems include such things as failing hardware devices, wrong or missing drivers, conflicts between programs, borked configurations. An above-average user can solve most of these by Google plus experimenting to rule out possible causes", also rules out a huge number of us out here who have far more than the average person's knowledge but still have to take the conflicts sometimes outside their own abilities to fix. I was suggesting that those of us who are very computer literate still may not be able to do what needs to be done to fix something and are still left open to those who would steal their files, if they could. That is reprehensible and it sickens me to be in the position to have to count on those people unknowingly.
If I've misunderstood, once again, what you meant, I do apologize. I was not trying to get OT or nit pick. I was merely recognizing that I, and some others I know, for our own reasons have to rely upon others to do our fixing now when we were the ones doing the fixing in prior times. It's not a comfortable place to sit.
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JKK
Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!
»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to jaykaykay
JKK, I don't think I ever said or implied any excuse for these employees' behavior. It's deplorable and I don't know why you would conclude that my judgement was otherwise.
As for ignorance, etc., you may have mistaken a statement about computer knowledge for a statement about general knowledge. For the most part I don't know what's what in a car engine, for example, and my mechanic may not know the history of Indo-European languages, but it doesn't mean we're "uneducated". People just have different sets of knowledge.
Finally, I do think that figuring out how to identify and back up all the right files, or encrypt them, takes approximately as much time and effort as fixing most common computer problems. Common problems include such things as failing hardware devices, wrong or missing drivers, conflicts between programs, borked configurations. An above-average user can solve most of these by Google plus experimenting to rule out possible causes; an average user needs help with both the fix and the data protection.
If it's anything that would take more expertise, then Geek Squad won't know how either - they're not exactly engineers. They'll just use the "restore" disk. |
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Oleg
Bellsouth Fastaccess
Premium
join:2003-12-08
Birmingham, AL | reply to jaykaykay
People who use Geek Squad do not know: Why computer Is slow,how to check e-mail,click yes on everything. |
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jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
Scottsdale, AZ
·Speakeasy
| reply to swhx7
said by KrK  :The problem is that the people who use "Geek Squad" and similar services are almost exactly the ones who don't know how to backup or encrypt, and won't or don't have time to learn. (With laptop problems, more typically you would send it to the manufacturer.) Wrong. Many of us are not capable of fixing our computer for one reason or another and are still knowledgeable enough to back up etc. We are just not able to fix what might go wrong...period. We still have to call in others to do it. I used to be able to fix other's computers but sure wouldn't and couldn't do so now. To put everyone that needs to call someone else, even Geek Squad (shudder!), in the box with the uneducated really isn't fair and is very judgmental. Our reasons for having to call in outside help are our own, but surely we shouldn't penalized for having to do so by someone raiding our files. I will not accept the label of victim willingly! If I am raped, I am not the guilty party.
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JKK
Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!
»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to Mele20
said by Mele20 :That, of course, is why anyone who is sane will never enable password remembering by any browser. . . . . . ignorance of security when using a computer to me indicates some degree of craziness. . . . . . How dumb can users be? Dumb and crazy are two different things, though it's possible to be both at the same time.
Crazy people usually aren't that dumb though, has been my experience, and dumb people are generally too dumb to be crazy. Craziness takes a certain savoir-faire.
Dumb and ignorant are two separate conditions, also.
Just a side thought, and not specifically security-related--
How much memory is consumed by a browser remembering a password, I wonder, vs. how much is consumed by the human brain remembering that same password? |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to KrK
That, of course, is why anyone who is sane will never enable password remembering by any browser. I agree though that there are a lot of crazy folks with computers who do enable password keeping by their browsers. Maybe they are just ignorant but ignorance of security when using a computer to me indicates some degree of craziness as a sane person wouldn't use a computer without learning at least the basics of computer security. Gee...one of the first things I learned over eight years ago...actually over nine years ago as it was before I got my first computer was to never enable password keeping by a browser. How dumb can users be?
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
·AT&T Yahoo
·AT&T DSL Service
·Cox HSI
| reply to swhx7
said by swhx7 :At first I thought this was an excellent point. But don't all the browsers and password-manager programs require a master password to authenticate the user before they will fill in forms? (I don't use these but I've always seen this feature.) Nope. It's nice and easy for the average person. Hell, even my PC does it. If I surf to websites, the Auto-fill/password options usually just fill in the login/password.
There's a few sites (Critical financial stuff) where I make it a point to not let it remember my password. However, I do fix my PC and stuff myself, and nobody else accesses my home PC, so I'm not as high risk.... however, that wouldn't help most people if say their computer was stolen, or as in this case, it was taken in to a service for repair.
If they got online and started surfing to popular websites, who knows how many they could just log straight in as that user. And once there, they could hijack the accounts by changing the user info and passwords... etc
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"Regulatory capitalism is when companies invest in lawyers, lobbyists, and politicians, instead of plant, people, and customer service." - former FCC Chairman William Kennard (A real FCC Chairman, unlike the current Corporate Spokesperson in the job!) |
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Capp
Capp
join:2005-03-30
Arlington, TX
| reply to Mele20
I, for one, Have never trusted store tech benches. I have known and worked with guys that were behind those benches and heard many a story of stuff like this.
With my personal company, I have helped hundreds of people with thier personal computers and I have not once copied files for my personal satisfaction. I do warn the user that if anything illegal is found, it will be reported, but I haven't yet found anything like this.
I'm not trying to sound stuck up or anything, but its trusted services like I provide that has led most of my clients to recommend me to family, friends, bosses, co-workers, relatives and neighbors. Most of my business has come from referrals and it has to do with being trusted. Its suprising and shocking the number of former Geek Squad customers I have that complained about their lack of customer service, their outrageous prices and the fact that they just don't seem like they care. I have taken people's computers to my office/home to be worked on and kept them for over a week at a time and was never questioned about what I had done with their sensitive information.
Not trying pat myself on the back or anything, but just reiterrating the point that small/medium size business owners are sometimes the better choice than taking it to your local Geek Squad or CompUSA tech bench.
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»www.Capp-Ware.com |
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Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
| reply to swhx7
said by swhx7 :On the general question, in the time it takes to locate and offload everything sensitive, a knowledgable user could fix almost any computer problem one way or another, at least if it's a desktop. The problem is that the people who use "Geek Squad" and similar services are almost exactly the ones who don't know how to backup or encrypt, and won't or don't have time to learn. (With laptop problems, more typically you would send it to the manufacturer.) What I don't understand is why someone would haul a 50 pound computer down to a shop to be repaired. I couldn't carry my 50 pound desktop down the elevator and all the way out to my parking stall. If I couldn't fix the problem and didn't have an extended warranty (which will expire and can't be further renewed when this computer is not even 3 years old), I would have a tech come over to my condo. I would watch everything he/she did so how would the tech be able to steal stuff off my computer? My friends all call a tech to come out. There is only one mom and pop computer store here anyways and they don't like to repair anything they didn't build. As for laptops, they go back to the manufacturer to be fixed so I don't see what the big problem is here.
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"The same ferocity that our founders devoted to protect the freedom and independence of the press is now appropriate for our defense of the freedom of the internet. The stakes are the same: the survival of our Republic". Al Gore, The Assault on Reason |
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mers2
Premium,MVM
join:2004-03-20
USA
clubs:
 ·AT&T U-Verse
| reply to swhx7
said by swhx7 : At first I thought this was an excellent point. But don't all the browsers and password-manager programs require a master password to authenticate the user before they will fill in forms? (I don't use these but I've always seen this feature.) Firefox by default doesn't require a password for the password manager. The one password manager program I have doesn't have it set by default either. I had to set it to lock the passwords after so many minutes of inactivity. The average user is going to be lazy and not want to use a password.
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Team Discovery
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swhx7
Premium
join:2006-07-23
Elbonia
·RoadRunner Cable
| reply to KrK
said by KrK :Another point to be made is with browser security. SOOOO many people now have their browsers store and remember their site passwords for them. A dishonest tech or other employees could hijack your paypal account, or your hotmail account, Gmail, your IM, whatever so easily. Many people even have their bank passwords and stuff stored. Ouch. Why make yourself a target....
At first I thought this was an excellent point. But don't all the browsers and password-manager programs require a master password to authenticate the user before they will fill in forms? (I don't use these but I've always seen this feature.)
On the general question, in the time it takes to locate and offload everything sensitive, a knowledgable user could fix almost any computer problem one way or another, at least if it's a desktop. The problem is that the people who use "Geek Squad" and similar services are almost exactly the ones who don't know how to backup or encrypt, and won't or don't have time to learn. (With laptop problems, more typically you would send it to the manufacturer.) |
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BandHeight
join:2004-08-30
Portland, TX
| reply to AB
said by AB :Did my friend's mother not give him that advice, either? I have no desire to comment on that ... it seems to me to be a different thing than the porn video story.
Posting the Snopes link was not intended to question your veracity, but to call attention to the potential "urban legendum" of your anecdote.
I figure the more people that know what's BS and what isn't may cut down on the number of chain emails I (we) receive in my (our) inboxes. One can only hope.
That's all. |
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OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
2 edits | reply to fatness
said by fatness :How the hell did this thread go off into the dead-end tangent of child pornography, anyway? The original post was about a tech copying some files. Now it's full of theoretical situations, theoretical consequences, and moral posturing. Jeez..... It's happening every time we start discussions about:
• snooping of user browsing habits and search requests (see my post related to it)
• making backdoors in encoding software
• sharing files over the Internet
• snooping for mails and other communications (at work or at home)
• using TOR
• censoring access to web sites
and list goes on...
A lot of things were done in the name of child pornography prevention... And not of all I may agree with.
Returning back to the main subject of the thread - it looks like now customers have to ask help services about kind of EULA (or a service agreement, or kind of NDA) before allowing them to start the work on their computers. It may prevent some of ill-minded techs from snooping in GIF, AVI, PNG, XML, DOC, ... files in personal folders.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to BandHeight
Did my friend's mother not give him that advice, either?
That was a blurb I heard on the news many years ago, as I stated.
If it's pure urban legend, it's an urban legend that was circulating the news channels at one time.
Though I'll grant that's hardly an impossible occurrence. |
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BandHeight
join:2004-08-30
Portland, TX
| reply to AB
said by AB :True anecdote ... I guess it could be:
»www.snopes.com/weddings/newlywed/video.asp |
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AB
Premium
join:2006-04-04
Leesburg, VA
| reply to EGeezer
A friend of mine once told me about a piece of wisdom his mother handed down to him--
If it's yours, you know it. If it's not yours, you know that also. And if it's not yours, you may not know whose it is, but you still know it's not yours. And if it's not yours, it's not yours to take.
True anecdote (at least heard on the news many years ago)-- A guy & his wife get away from the kids one night & have a little fun at some sleazy motel that features waterbeds, mirrored ceilings, porn movies, etc.
About a year later, they return to the same motel for another night of fun. They click on the closed-circuit porn channel-- and guess who's the featured attraction?!! Them from a year earlier!  
Hilarity and lawsuit ensued. |
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Wildcatboy
Premium,Mod
join:2000-10-30
Toronto, ON |  reply to EGeezer
(topic move) File stealing techs -
Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 26 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »File stealing techs -
stated reason was: Off topic. |
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