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Jerkface

join:2005-06-05
Hackettstown, NJ

[northeast] Verizon FiOS ONT Failures

Heylo All

I searched for a couple minutes and i couldn't find anything about this subject, so i thought i would bring it up and see if you guys have heard/seen anything about this.

I have a family member who is a Verizon tech in New Jersey and i was playing 20 questions with him about the Verizon FiOS system and how it works. Come to find out, Verizon screwed up. A "good" portion of the ONTs manufactured and installed around the tri-state area fail which leads the Good 'ol verizon tech to come out and do a complete reinstall of the ONT. He says that its something to do with the hardware of the ONT that makes it fail, and he finds himself replacing ONT after ONT almost every single day.
Has anyone ever had this issue before? He makes it seem like its a really big deal and that VZ is doing nothing to help this misuse of resources.

»community.moertel.com/~thor/pix/···0820.jpg



matcarl
Premium
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

I needed an ONT replaced a few months ago and other people here have also reported needing ONT's, not a good sign!


TheOtherPete

join:2001-06-28
Boyds, MD
reply to Jerkface

said by Jerkface:

A "good" portion of the ONTs manufactured and installed around the tri-state area fail which leads the Good 'ol verizon tech to come out and do a complete reinstall of the ONT.
I haven't heard about this but I would like to point out that a "complete reinstall of the ONT" aka swapping ONT's is a pretty easy job and is nothing like the amt of work that the original FIOS install requires since the wires are already run.

nh5

join:2006-01-21
Old Bethpage, NY

original ont here since december 05 not a problem yet. Also it is a 611


splicingdan

join:2005-10-13
Staten Island, NY
reply to Jerkface

said by Jerkface:

Heylo All

I searched for a couple minutes and i couldn't find anything about this subject, so i thought i would bring it up and see if you guys have heard/seen anything about this.

I have a family member who is a Verizon tech in New Jersey and i was playing 20 questions with him about the Verizon FiOS system and how it works. Come to find out, Verizon screwed up. A "good" portion of the ONTs manufactured and installed around the tri-state area fail which leads the Good 'ol verizon tech to come out and do a complete reinstall of the ONT. He says that its something to do with the hardware of the ONT that makes it fail, and he finds himself replacing ONT after ONT almost every single day.
Has anyone ever had this issue before? He makes it seem like its a really big deal and that VZ is doing nothing to help this misuse of resources.

»community.moertel.com/~thor/pix/···0820.jpg
How would your family member know what is going on in the "tri-state" area?

Verizon doesn't manufacture the ONT's and their associated equipment. So how does this equal a screw-up on their behalf?

And what credibility does the attached photo add to your claims?

Your post amounts to nothing but hearsay.


Mr SoWhat

@swbell.net
reply to Jerkface

So what! Problems happen all day long with new products. Is Verizon attempting to correct the situation? If the answer is yes then what are you concerned about. It sounds like to have nothing better to do.



Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro
reply to splicingdan

said by splicingdan:

said by Jerkface:

Heylo All

I searched for a couple minutes and i couldn't find anything about this subject, so i thought i would bring it up and see if you guys have heard/seen anything about this.

I have a family member who is a Verizon tech in New Jersey and i was playing 20 questions with him about the Verizon FiOS system and how it works. Come to find out, Verizon screwed up. A "good" portion of the ONTs manufactured and installed around the tri-state area fail which leads the Good 'ol verizon tech to come out and do a complete reinstall of the ONT. He says that its something to do with the hardware of the ONT that makes it fail, and he finds himself replacing ONT after ONT almost every single day.
Has anyone ever had this issue before? He makes it seem like its a really big deal and that VZ is doing nothing to help this misuse of resources.

»community.moertel.com/~thor/pix/···0820.jpg
How would your family member know what is going on in the "tri-state" area?

Verizon doesn't manufacture the ONT's and their associated equipment. So how does this equal a screw-up on their behalf?

And what credibility does the attached photo add to your claims?

Your post amounts to nothing but hearsay.
1. He is a VZ tech in New Jersey, so he knows what is going on in the tri-state area.

2. So what if VZ doesn't manufacture the ONTs? They are the company using them, they struck the deal with the manufacturer, and thus they are the ones responsible for the failure of the hardware when the customer calls up complaining... It's a major problem for them if it is true.

3. I think he was trying to show what he was talking about. I don't see how ANY picture would make his claim more "credible" and I never saw him try to say that.

-Tzale
--
"I'm a Geek, Are You?"


Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro
reply to Mr SoWhat

said by Mr SoWhat :

So what! Problems happen all day long with new products. Is Verizon attempting to correct the situation? If the answer is yes then what are you concerned about. It sounds like to have nothing better to do.
Of course they're attempting to fix it. The thing is they are losing thousands of man hours and money..

It's more or less THERE problem than OUR problem.

-Tzale
--
"I'm a Geek, Are You?"


KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS

The original manufacturer, American Fiber Concepts, as known as AFC, produced the original 610x SFH ONT.

They were later acquired by Tellabs. Which along with Motorola make the current models in use.

The 610, and even 611's would fail due to video problems.
The current 612's use a different Power Supply, and BBU, and are supposed to be free of the prior problems.

The 611 and 612 look almost identical, with the exception that the 611 supports 4 Pots ports, and the 612 only 2.

The 612 is the first MoCA enabled unit, which runs everything off of the coax, and eliminates the need for CAT5 wiring between the ONT and router.

All 3 units utilize a completely different PS and BBU, so the re-install can be quite lengthy in some cases.


splicingdan

join:2005-10-13
Staten Island, NY
reply to Tzale

said by Tzale:

1. He is a VZ tech in New Jersey, so he knows what is going on in the tri-state area.

2. So what if VZ doesn't manufacture the ONTs? They are the company using them, they struck the deal with the manufacturer, and thus they are the ones responsible for the failure of the hardware when the customer calls up complaining... It's a major problem for them if it is true.

3. I think he was trying to show what he was talking about. I don't see how ANY picture would make his claim more "credible" and I never saw him try to say that.

-Tzale
Are you kidding me?......

jerkface posts vague claims based on a conversation with a "family member" and you seem to accept them as fact.

Tzale, are you a VZ tech?


nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:14
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to KA3SGM

said by KA3SGM:

The original manufacturer, American Fiber Concepts, as known as AFC, produced the original 610x SFH ONT.

They were later acquired by Tellabs. Which along with Motorola make the current models in use.

The 610, and even 611's would fail due to video problems.
The current 612's use a different Power Supply, and BBU, and are supposed to be free of the prior problems.

The 611 and 612 look almost identical, with the exception that the 611 supports 4 Pots ports, and the 612 only 2.

The 612 is the first MoCA enabled unit, which runs everything off of the coax, and eliminates the need for CAT5 wiring between the ONT and router.

All 3 units utilize a completely different PS and BBU, so the re-install can be quite lengthy in some cases.
AFC = Advanced Fiber Communications. The original 610 and 610x used a different APSU/BBU than the 611/611i/612, since the older ONT's were manufactured by AFC. Tellabs completely redesigned the 1600-series ONT's after AFC was purchased. The newer APSU/BBU can be used with the older 611i/612, so it depends on which ONT is currently in place when an ONT replacement is required.


fiber4tw

@verizon.net
reply to Jerkface

That's news to this fios tech. Did he say what type of ONT, or what piece of hardware was failing? Of course some ONT's go bad, but it certainly isn't a common occurence or something that I would even consider note worthy. I am not trying to hoot Verizon's horn, but for a roll out of a completely new fiber based network which offers all 3 services, it has gone pretty darn smooth.


CopperMux

join:2005-01-18
reply to Jerkface

Just because this "tech" is in NJ, it does not mean he has any clue about anything outside of his garage and area. TZale, take it all with a very large grain of salt.



Tzale
Proud Libertarian Conservative
Premium
join:2004-01-06
NYC Metro
reply to splicingdan

said by splicingdan:

said by Tzale:

1. He is a VZ tech in New Jersey, so he knows what is going on in the tri-state area.

2. So what if VZ doesn't manufacture the ONTs? They are the company using them, they struck the deal with the manufacturer, and thus they are the ones responsible for the failure of the hardware when the customer calls up complaining... It's a major problem for them if it is true.

3. I think he was trying to show what he was talking about. I don't see how ANY picture would make his claim more "credible" and I never saw him try to say that.

-Tzale
Are you kidding me?......

jerkface posts vague claims based on a conversation with a "family member" and you seem to accept them as fact.

Tzale, are you a VZ tech?
No, I am not... However, I wouldn't discredit him right away. There seems to be a similarity between what he says and what has been showing up on this forum.

-Tzale
--
"I'm a Geek, Are You?"

littlebird

join:2004-01-25
Carlisle, PA

FYI,

The first 6 months I had Verizon FiOS, I was having constant outages. After replacing the ONT 4 times, I finally got a good one and haven't had an outage since.
(By the way, how long are ONT's supposed to last? )

Bird


justin9876

join:2006-04-21
Keller, TX

said by littlebird:

(By the way, how long are ONT's supposed to last? )

Bird
Mine is two years old and counting, never a problem.

I am curious: does anybody here know approximately how many different people are actually posting FiOS problem reports here? And what percentage that is of the entire number of FiOS users here? And how representative their experience is versus the entire install base? I am just wondering if the problems with FiOS are as bad and frequent as they might appear just by reading this forum.

When a complete newcomer visits this site, they may get the impression that everybody that gets FiOS has constant trouble. And I don't think that is true. Certainly when Verizon starts installing FiOS in a new area they are bound to have some startup problems, but I believe that would go down as they gain experience.

One last comment: the August 2007 issue of PC World magazine has survey results from 6400+ readers (I know, not a big sample) comparing their satisfaction with different internet connection types - power-line, cable, dial-up, DSL, fiber, fixed wireless, and satellite. The most far and away satisfied group was fiber users, in all catelgories: overall service, connection reliability, download speed, and upload speed. The way I read the article most if not all of the fiber respondents are FiOS customers. FWIW...
--
Justin
Verizon FiOS TV and Internet
Motorola QIP6416 HD DVR
Sony KDL-V40XBR1

new2fios

join:2006-07-20
Camillus, NY

1 edit

It's almost a year to the day that we got FIOS and except for one total outage (phone and Internet) lasting a few hours, the service has been perfect. We are on the original ONT. I suspect that ONTs are often replaced needlessly because techs don't have the tools or knowledge necessary to pinpoint the problem. There are so many reports where the ONT has been replaced - then when that doesn't solve the problem, something else is done on the next visit.

PS. My Actiontec is fine (wireless, too) and it's the most stable router I ever owned (I think I own it now).


kingspud

join:2006-01-18
Massapequa, NY
reply to Jerkface

Well I had my first two weeks ago. We had some pretty bad storms on the Island and the power dipped for half a second. That was all it took to knock the system off line and not come back. After a half hour of no video/internet I called encore service and they said that they were able to get to the ONT. Seems the ONT was running off the battery. Checked the outlet for the power supply and it was good, plugged the PS into another outlet, still the same thing, it wanted to run off the battery. Rather then getting back on the phone I just pulled the plug in the battery housing and the system ran off the house power. Next day tried trouble shooting again, same thing. Back on the phone, tech tried remotely clearing things and rebooting, then said they would dispatch a tech. So I left the battery unplugged. Two days later (Sunday of all days!) the tech showed up, plugged the battery back in and everything was green and happy. Tech then called FSC and advised him to replace the ONT with a new one. So I went from a 610, to a 612. Much smaller and the battery has that button for additional power when needed. All in all, it took the Tech about an 30 minutes to swap out, and about 45 minutes with FSC activating everything. So far, so good.


fios2u

join:2005-03-22
Grapevine, TX

From my experience you have to take what a tech says with a grain of salt. There a large number on ONTs that get replaced when they were good in the first place. The end result of these problems have been dirty fiber (improper cleaning), misconfiguration of serial numbers or type of ONT(FSC) or the wrong fiber in the splice box was jumpered. Some techs will say it was a bad ONT instead of saying they messed up.
There is actually a small amount of defective ONTs. There are some cases the ONT was loaded with older software versions. The latter will be resolved with an auto-upgrade feature coming out soon.
As with any electronics with new technology there will be some glitches along the way. Considering there is close to 2 million subscribers, I think Verizon has been doing pretty good.
I just wish they wouldn't nickle and dime you to death with their video service.


doopstr

join:2004-11-12
Hightstown, NJ
reply to Jerkface

I had a power supply fail on my 610.

When I added TV service they swapped out my 610 with a 612. I imagine that the 610 found its way into the trash. Seemed like a big waste of money to me.



noping
no route to host
Premium
join:2007-01-09
reply to fios2u

I'm on my sixth ONT. Half of them weren't even defective.

610 - VOD not functioning properly
611 #1 - dead unit
611 #2 - BBU wired improperly, all services intermittent
611 #3 - Replaced because someone at the FSC screwed up, serial number and model type not registered properly under the account; easier to just install a 612 than to force account back to a 611
612 #1 - Replaced out of desperation by technicians trying to fix image quality issue (not the problem)
612 #2 - current
--
# rm -rf /



pcdebb
RIP dadkins
Premium
join:2000-12-03
Brandon, FL
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Bright House
reply to Jerkface

dont know which one I have, but it's been going strong since around sep 05. even held up after a six hour blackout over the weekend.
--
babbling | a time for change...



KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS
reply to nycdave

NYCDAVE, when they replaced my AFC 610x with a Tellabs 611, that required a new PS/BBU.

Three days later they upgraded my NEW Tellabs 611 to a NEW Tellabs 612, requiring a DIFFERENT PS/BBU.

Does that sound right to you???

Or were the Tellabs 611 and 612 able to use the same PS/BBU??

Do you know if subsequent Single Family Home ONT's(i.e. GPON units) are supposed to use the same PS/BBU's for the foreseeable future??

Unless they are doing the upgrades to improve reliability problems of the old equipment, it seems like a lot of waste of time and equipment.



nycdave
Premium,MVM
join:1999-11-16
Melville, NY
kudos:14
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 edit

1. 610x -> 611 requires a new OPSU/BBU.

2. 611/611i -> 612 does NOT require a new OPSU/BBU, but it does require a APSU/BBU combination with the same power output (38w vs. 50w). The safest way to make sure everything is compatible is to swap the OPSU/BBU when the ONT is swapped, but it is not the most cost-effective way...

3. GPON ONT's will not be compatible with existing OPSU/BBU's, so there will be new requirements.


KenAF

join:2006-01-23
Arlington, VA

3 edits

Is there any particular reason Verizon is not using one of the new BPON/GPON hybrid ONTs? Perhaps reliability was not acceptable?


proletarian2

join:2007-01-08
00000
reply to Jerkface

i can count on one hand (ok, maybe two) the amount of bad ont's i've had to replace over the last two years...610,611,612,621. they run like champs from my experience.

if the post is in fact true, then it would have to a localized problem how one area got a bad batch. i'm still not sure i buy it.



KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS

I was on my 3rd ONT in a week, and the Network techs were telling the field techs to hang a 4th.

The local tech hung op on the NT guy.
The network tech was convinced that there could be NO other problem but the ONT itself. No matter how many of them they tried. 2 replacement Actiontec routers didn't help either

After several weeks of messing around with my account, they found that 'somehow' the account became not provisioned for any data service, Just POTS and TV

Because the TV service still needs a data connection for VOD and guide services, and they could not turn the data on, so they kept replacing ONT's.
Even the tech that connected his own laptop directly to the ONT could not pull an IP address

It turned out to be an account configuration problem that they could not solve, so they canceled my account completely, then recreated it.

Problem solved.

More than 3 weeks of getting the specific error 'IP REQUEST WAS DENIED BY THE SERVER', and of course that must have been an ONT problem.

They had already scrapped 2, and were getting ready to scrap #3, #4, #5..... No matter how many, the problem was elsewhere, but all they knew was to replace ONT's until the problem was fixed.

I don't know how many ONT's they needlessly replace each month, they need better diagnostics, and beter test equipment, because it must be costing them millions.



matcarl
Premium
join:2007-03-09
Franklin Square, NY

said by KA3SGM:

I don't know how many ONT's they needlessly replace each month, they need better diagnostics, and beter test equipment, because it must be costing them millions.
I agree, they simply go to people's houses and replace boxes, routers, splitters, ONT's like it was nothing. What do they do with them all? It is money wasted. They better get thier act together or this whole Fios thing will end up a loser for them.

mdfios7

join:2007-04-01
Waldorf, MD

like any other service provider, there will be a percentage of equipment that will go bad. remember the big converter recall from motorola a couple of years back that affected almost MSO?

keep in mind this is new technology but the techs can probably do better troubleshooting rather than just swapping equipment that they think may be bad.



KA3SGM
- -... ...- -
Premium
join:2006-01-17
West Chester, PA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Cricket Broadband
·Verizon FiOS

said by mdfios7:

like any other service provider, there will be a percentage of equipment that will go bad. remember the big converter recall from motorola a couple of years back that affected almost MSO?
Yea, but that Motorola converter recall was because of faulty power cord connectors, a safety issue that would not cause a problem unless you repeatedly pulled the cable out of the back of the box, involved a 75 cent part, and probably cost less than $15 per box to repair.

ONT's cost a bit more than settop boxes, and there is no evidence that Verizon is repairing/refurbing ONT's at this point. Everything being installed is New-In-Box.