Vonage Cancellation Headaches > Terrible customer service abounds

Terrible customer service abounds

Sorry to hear about your father, but that's not the customer service reps fault, it's the executor of your father's estate.

When my mother passed away, I was the executor of the estate, and the beneficiary. Before she died, we had set up a durable power of attorney. Once my mother signed that paper, I had legal authority over all her accounts. My signature was as good as hers on anything. Before I even expected the phone company, or the bank, or the cable co to talk to me, I faxed them a copy of the POA, their legal dept verified it, and within a day or 2, everyone and anyone would tell me anything I needed to know.

After the will was probated, all I had to do was present one of the "short certificates" issued by the county wills office, and it was no issue.

Every year or so, this same story comes up on BBR, and every time I try to tell people they need to be PREPAIRED TO DIE.

1: Have a living will, and a durable power of attorney with a trusted relative or friend. Think about it. You're in a hospital, heaven forbid, with a head injury for 3 months. Who's going to see to your house? Your bills? Your affairs? You need these things set up in advance.

2: Have a will for after you die. Name an executor and beneficiaries. Even if you're flat broke, and think you don't need one, you need one.

I learned this the "easy" way. My mother had all 3 and let me tell you from EXPERIENCE it made a hard time in my life a whole hell of a lot easier and less confusing.

Those 2 pieces of paper (POA and probated will) open all doors and unlock all locks in the event they are needed.

I'll get off my soap box now...
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Welcome to cat noise Wednsday!!

My mother was his executor (defaults to a surviving spouse), and if they want that paperwork, then fine, but...

1) Don't ask her to have her *deceased* husband call in for authorization. That just shows how inattentive the reps are (and that is their fault)

2) Request the proper paperwork from her, and help her through it. A little sympathy and patience for someone who just her husband isn't undue. No need for the rudeness and run-around they gave her.

3) Don't all of a sudden waive all the rules and regulations just because someone found a potential loophole that would deny them money (which it wouldn't, as his spouse with joint accounts I'm pretty sure she would be responsible for his debts as well).

Plus, there's a difference between parents and spouses. I think I have a right to pretty much expect that either my wife or I can make changes to our home utilites and services, seeing as how they'll take either or our monies without complaint.

Surviving spouse is only default executor on JOINT accounts.

Unfortunately, your parents assumed (as most people do) that this included individual accounts.

A surviving spouse estate does not generate a short certificate, or a legally appointed executor.

Don't take my comments the wrong way. I'm not looking to rip into your mom or your deceased dad. I'm not that callous. I'm trying to educate people so they don't go through what your mom did.

The customer service reps were despicable on this one, for sure. Once they see cash on the table, they look to pounce. It's a shit move for sure.

But, if someone had sat your parents down and explained what I just explained earlier, things would have been easier for your mom.

Now, the whole reason I posted this. This is just for you, ajrosen.

It is your responsibility as a son/daughter to explain this to your mother, so that she has a will and a durable POA for when she gets sick and dies. It's going to happen. I know it sounds morbid, but everyone dies sooner or later. Having this stuff squared away now will make things easier for the folks that have to take care of your mom's affairs when she is gone.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, or trying to be preachy. This comes out of genuine concern for my fellow human beings and for you. My cousin's widowed mom passed away a few years ago, and it was total chaos because she didn't have a will.

The lawyer that handled my mother's estate saved me over twice the fee of the probate knowing what was subject to estate tax, and what wasn't. His advice was priceless...
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Welcome to cat noise Wednsday!!

Wacoyle - you're not being a jerk at all, and I do have the paperwork for POA now for my mother. We have learned from this - but why can't they have a script there for the CSRs when they come up against this situation? "Maam, I'm sorry. If you give me your email address, I will send you a list of the paperwork we require, as well as a form you can print, sign and fax back to us and we can make those changes". When all this happened, it just seemed like Verizon had never come across this situation before judging by how they handled it.

And for anyone reading this whole morbid thread - learn from the lessons some have had to learn the hard way. Dealing with the phone company is probably the least of the worries. I'd hate to have a mortgage in that same situation.

reply to N3OGH
In most jurisdictions, a power of attorney does NOT survive death of the donor. There are essentially 3 types of PoA (sometimes with different labels in different jurisdications) ... the durable power of attorney, which comes into effect immediately, and expires on death or revocation ... the non-durable power of attorney, which comes into effect immediately and expires on death, revocation or *importantly*, mental incapacity ... and finally ... the conditional power of attorney which comes into effect upon some condition, and expires on death, revocation, or another specified condition (and it can be durable or non durable). You cannot use a PoA in the name of a dead person. If you have PoA for your parents, and one dies, then you can use the PoA for the surviving parent, where the surviving parent has authority to act.

Upon death, it is the executor(s) of the estate who then act on behalf of the deceased person and his/her estate. It is often a good plan to have a lawyer as one of the executors of your estate, because they can have much more leverage in sorting out problems. When my f-i-l went into a nursing home, someone stole his credit card and presented an authority ... which was totally impossible considering that he couldn't have signed it with advanced Parkinsons! I tried many times to get the CC issuer off but referred it to the estate lawyer who said "Show me Mr X's actual signature on the authority then we'll look at it otherwise, it's your mistake".

Sometimes, even with complete and valid documentation it's hard to get organisations to act to clear things up. Watch the terms "jointly and severally" a lot of organisations try to cover their asses and require initial contact by ALL!

reply to ajrosen
Verizon Customer support as well as Verizon technical support are the very worst.

They may be amongst the worst, but I think we can say the same thing about ALL the large organisations, whether they're cable, phone, wireless, or a whole host of other companies.

The problem is that in this case, they're following the rules without a clear understanding of the nature of the rule they are following. So when they try to give explanations, it sounds stupid.

If they were to have said "Sorry Mrs.X, we cannot process changes requests on this account, because it was set up by your husband and you weren't authorized by him at the time it was set up to make changes. It's not uncommon for us to get requests by disgruntled spouses to terminate the service of the other spouse. If your husband can call in and authorize you to make changes we'd be pleased to."

Or in the case of death "Sorry Mrs Y, we cannot process changes to the account until such time as we receive a copy of a death certificate from the executor or the lawyers representing the estate. It's not uncommon for us to get requests by disgruntled spouses claiming the other spouse died which is why we must proceed this way"

These two examples explain what is needed and why.

I just had to deal with a bank who declined to authorize a power of attorney 3 years ago, but never told me it had been declined, or why! I had for some reason permitted me access to the account several times in the intervening time! Moreover, they continued to pay a preauthorized payment made by me even AFTER they notified me that the poa had been rejected.

I spoke with a clerk who just wanted to argue with me. She would not see reason. I asked to speak with her manager and she replied "I don't see why, she'll give you the same answer ... we can't do anything ... you'll have to visit a branch (sure a 3000 mile air trip!) Fortunately the manager took ownership of the problem, grasped how ridiculous it was and proceeded to find a way to make the Powers of Attorney department happy without my having to fly to England.

The poor behaviour of the people on the front line when they get things that they can't solve themselves is just astonishing. Therein lays the problem ... they want to be able to solve problems themselves. They don't want to escalate problems which they fear would show their own incompetence.

reply to ajrosen

reply to ajrosen

reply to ajrosen
Phone and Sprint were under hubby's name, other utilities/insurance also. When he passed on 8/06, I immediately started to contact all the services, told them of his passing and asked what the proper procedures were to change all accounts to my name.
1. Some did the change immediately into my name on the phone
2. Others- Sprint, VISA, Discover - asked for a certified letter with the Death Certificate, then I got those accounts changed to my name within 1 week after they got the certified letters.
Total time to change everything...10 days.
Guess it depends on where you live and what 'services'/utilities you use (companies).
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Lonnie

reply to N3OGH
You speak as if you KNOW the laws of every state or mistakenly believe that your state's laws regarding survivorship and marriage apply in the rest of the union. I'm quite happy to tell you that you are WRONG.

Only in states where marriage isn't a joint financial relationship do your statements even apply. And especially in states that recognize marriage as truly joint financial and property relationships the husband and wife have automatic durable power of attorney over the other, including joint use of property/assets/finances, joint ownership of all assets and joint responsibility for financial relationships (including responsibility for debt of one partner being shared with the other spouse). As a result by the laws of those states the husband and wife are entitled by law to have access to not only canceling but starting and administering any financial relationship on behalf of both parties. And in these states as opposed to what others have said, contract terms that are contrary to the law of the state are unenforceable. As such any contract term administered in those states that says that husband and wife can't jointly manage the contract is automatically void.

The severability clause exists solely to keep the terms of the contract that are legal in force even when sections of the contract that are against the law are struck. This exists because under standard contract law if any section of the contract is found to violate the law the entire contract is void. The clause prevents this by allowing only the illegal portions of the contract to be struck without impact to the remainder.

lighten up dude, I'm not a lawyer, I'm just trying to help the guy out.

Then again, you sound like a lawyer. Argumentative, combative, and confrontational....
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