Anon | Residentail customers are a drain on resources I can completely see where Phoenix are coming from on this one. If anyone has ever worked for a provider that sells both commercial and residential DSL. You will find that corporate customers will be more knowlegeable and pay a lot more and require a lot less babysitting. Residential customers will pay $40 and expect the world and in the mean time tie up billing, tech support, in fact anyone they think that will listen to them. I think this guys approach makes complete sense. Get one customer paying $250 bucks per month who knows what a default gateway actualy is or have someone paying $40 bucks per month who can't even find the start button on the windows desktop without having a map drawn for them. If you were in business to make money, which option would you choose ? |
|
|
|
| Well said, you get a vote! |
|
 drjimPremium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
Long Beach, CA
kudos:3 | reply to Anon
Sad, but true. Maybe part of qualifying for the $40 price should include a test of basic PC and networking skills!
Regards, drjim
--
Takeoffs are optional......Landings mandatory! |
|
acepoint
join:2000-11-04
Roslyn Heights, NY | reply to Anon
thats all great, but what the hell am i supposed to do if i can't get any support when my freaking line is down! |
|
 MENINBLKPremium
join:2000-01-25
Yonkers, NY
| That is what your Local TelCo's job is. To provide Residential xDSL technology.
Just look at Verizon. They merged NorthPoint under their wing, and took over all of the residential accounts. Now NorthPoint only has to worry about contracting Business and SOHO accounts while Verizon takes care of everyone else.
Verizon already has the equipment and the employee base to handle Customer inquiries and trouble, NorthPoint doesn't. It will take some time for NorthPoint to get to the position where Verizon is today. The same goes for many of the xDSL ISPs out there today.
They are in a position to help the few thousand knowledgeable users they have, but when it comes to the millions of users who only know how to throw away the product manuals, it takes a much larger base of employees to match the expectations of someone who expects the world on a platter. And threatening to cancel your service is the BEST thing you could do, as far as they are concerned.
DSL is a NEW technology. If you want it, you are going to have to WAIT for it. You are also going to have to accept the mergers, as this technology matures. If you don't like it, you have three options, either,
1) Stick with your Dial-up,
2) Go with a Cable Service Provider (if they are in your area),
3) Start your own ISP and see how hard it really is.
As blunt as it is, this is where the technology is today.
Pete...
Did I hear someone demand a MANUAL re-count ?
--
Pete Romano
promano@email.msn.com
[text was edited by author 2000-11-13 16:36:24] |
|
| reply to acepoint
For all I care.. Megapath can go under as well. Lets see if someone files a law suit again them.
BTW, I am ready to get my new DSL line installed soon!
SO SCREW MEGAPATH AND PHOENIXDSL!
And to think that I almost purchased a business account with PhoenixDSL!
--
JRamos
------------------------------
HOME: Phoenix/Northpoint SDSL - Bergenfield, NJ
784/392 get 800/800, but only when it works!
WORK: Verizon Infospeed DSL - Ridgefield, NJ
640/90 ADSL PPPoE I am lucky if I get 520/80 on a good day! |
|
Reviews:
 ·Verizon FiOS
| reply to Anon
Hey, that flex.net service is looking better and better every day now. If only I lived in Hawaii. 
--
=C= (the poster formerly known as "csaia") |
|
davork
join:1999-08-21
Jersey City, NJ | reply to Anon
In the UK there are a number of 'free' ISP's
These make their money via two routes: -
o They get a share of the profits when the telephone call is terminated on their systems by a long distance carrier (the calls to the ISP's aren't free as you've realised by now!)
o They can charge a premium fee for support. As much as a buck 50 a minute...
I'm *really* surprised that the cheapie DSL providers haven't stopped winging and moved support to a 1-900 number at 50c/minute...
Tom
(Who is not with a cheapie DSL provider and narrowly avoided moving to Phoenix...) |
|
| reply to MENINBLK
This attitude is why the cable modem people are blowing away the DSL providers and will continue to do so. |
|
 sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY | reply to Anon
said by Kagey:
I can completely see where Phoenix are coming from on this one.
That's like saying that it's OK he killed his neighbor because he played his music too loudly. Phoenix MADE A CHOICE IN ORDER TO SELL RESIDENTIAL banking on getting a large userbase to make lots of money. Because they couldn't hack it is no excuse to screw customers out of their money and time. They wanted in solely to make money... well, part of that is providing support. They knew and YOU know it too.
Your comments on 'customers' are untrue and insulting. Most customers never use technical support. They call when there is a problem, and if an ISP isn't prepared to support those people then they are not competent and should never have started. IT'S PART OF THE SERVICE!
I'm so sick of this let's make excuses for the abuses and incompetentcies of business and their management.
MegaPath is even worse than Phoenix. It was THEIR decision to cutoff support. Their decision to throw clients into the garbage. What do they think this little stunt has left as an impression in the minds of the professionals here and the people who know former Phoenix users and who read this stuff? That in the end MegaPath does not respect its clients and will turn on anyone at the drop of a pin. You can make all the excuses you want for them but THEY made the decision. They showed their lack of ethics and their inability to deal with a simple problem through communication. |
|
| reply to dslamguy
Until everyone on your block and the block next to you and so on all get cable and you bandwidth drops to about 8 kbps, from 1.5m. Then come and talk to us about cable. |
|
Anon | reply to dslamguy
That is so funny. Anyone that has even the most basic grasp of how the cable service is provided, and how quickly the bandwidth disappears is now having a little smirk at dslamguys expense. Cable is very nice, but only if no one else on your block knows about it. |
|
| reply to sadowski
Well I am one that almost purchased a DSL line from Phoenix for the office. Good thing that at the time of the order we got cut off. If they are treating me this badly on my residential account, what am I to expect about their business accounts!?
It just sickens me to see how Megapath users are on here saying that tough... pay more to get our service. Well I am sorry there are plenty of ISPs out there that do residential.
Megapath can just shove their DSL up their A$$E$.
--
JRamos
------------------------------
HOME: Phoenix/Northpoint SDSL - Bergenfield, NJ
784/392 get 800/800, but only when it works!
WORK: Verizon Infospeed DSL - Ridgefield, NJ
640/90 ADSL PPPoE I am lucky if I get 520/80 on a good day! |
|
Anon | reply to sadowski
My comments about residential customers are neither untrue or insulting. It is a simple fact. If you have a large customer base of residential customers you had better set aside a whole pot of money to provide 24 * 7 tech support who are going to be used to breaking point and be prepared to deal with the complete spectrum of intellects and abilities. It is also a fact that if you deal with purely business customers your financial return is greater and your costs to support that customer are less than those for residential.
--
"I said it was impossible, I didn't say I couldn't do it" |
|
sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY
| Business customers cost more to support since they require more personal and often on-site attention - they are simply charged more. The fact is MOST residential people NEVER contact customer support unless there is a problem.
In any event, it is the ISPs responsibility to service those residential customers at the contracted price. That is their business responsibility and their legal obligation. You can't say 'well, we aren't making enough dollars off them to support them so to hell with them!' They should never have entered into the business if they weren't prepared to accept their responsibility. It's that simple both legally and ethically.
Addendum:
The only reason MegaPath thinks it can get away with this is because it's cocky due to growth. They think they can do anything now. That is a sure sign of poor and stupid management.
[text was edited by author 2000-11-15 15:16:27] |
|
| I totally agree with you. I was one of those customers who waited 3 hours just to open a trouble ticket and another week to get any kind of feedback. It is PhoenixDSL/Megapath's responsibility to provide at least a working DSL line. Infact, that responsibility is stated on the contract when I signed up for PhoenixDSL! It is pure and simple, MegaPath felt they can't make money on residential customers and because of their ignorant attitude, they decided to throw them in the trash and left them to fend from themselves. This behavior is just morally wrong and I hope MegaPath gets punished for their lack of customer care.
The comments about residential customers is totally untrue. Except for those few who know nothing about computers and DSL, most subscribers are very knowlegable. And those who doesn't know where the start button is located are very unlikely to get DSL in the first place because they probably don't even know the technology. In fact, I , a residential customer, tried everything to fix my DSL line myself except digging up the wire or visiting the CO.
So clearly, the fault is at MegaPath and I hope they get punished for their behavior. |
|
Anon | reply to Anon
Missing the point.... You're missing the point - we're not angry at Phoenix and Megapath because they aren't giving us the bargain of our lives, we're angry because they sold us one thing and are delivering us something else - nothing, in fact. You're probably right about the financial aspects - I don't deny I have my doubts about the business model most of these DSL providers are using. However, Phoenix made the decision to offer DSL at $39 a month to residential costumers AND touted itself as "A new breed of ISP" with excellent support, etc. Now they have failed to live up to that and that is why people are upset.
Oh, and for the record, I don't need support, I just need for the line to work! |
|
tothemax
join:2000-05-13
Briarcliff Manor, NY | reply to MexiCubAZ
Re: Residentail customers are a drain on resources Have megapath at home and have no problems.
You get what you pay for!
At work had a phoenix soho account go live on d-day
Took about 3 days to get hooked up. Megapath called each day
to follow-up and after I was going called to verify every thing was all right.
Happy as can be. Got champange service at beer prices for
my work account |
|
yazdzikPremium,MVM
join:2000-07-26
Honesdale, PA
kudos:1 | reply to Anon
Re: Missing the point.... Dear Friends,
Of course, if a contract is unreasonable, it may be considered void ab initio, and if what people here are saying were true,and that is a big "if," that no company can be expected, rationally, to provide tech support for the technically challenged, for the pittance of thirty-nine dollars a month, one could consider that unreasonable. However, if many, if not most ISPs provide service for thirty-nine to forty-nine dollars per month, it must, as a matter of law, be considered to be a reasonable assumption that it can be so provided. If the ILECs block competition, the dreadful service many of us may receive has another exegesis than fraud in the essence, or fraud in fact. And while the ISP or CLEC, may argue that they cannot meet their promises because of unforeseeable, or uncontrollable circumstances, that makes the contract voidable, on the part of the promisee. If ISP ABC, and CLEC DEF believed that they could survive, and offer service, &c, and discover that their unforeseen costs are far higher that a rational person would have anticipated, the end-user has the right to either enforcement, or redress. If enforcement were impossible, the contract is not, in my opinion, binding.
In short, the factors were far more complex than most could have foreseen, and, I am not sure which view of the law a court might take, but, unless proven otherwise, Megapath is obligated to provide service. Or pay the piper.
All good wishes,
Yazdzik |
|
sadowskiI Am My Own DoppelgangerPremium,MVM
join:2000-04-14
Buffalo, NY | said by yazdzik:
Dear Friends,
Of course, if a contract is unreasonable, it may be considered void ab initio, and if what people here are saying were true,and that is a big "if," that no company can be expected, rationally, to provide tech support for the technically challenged, for the pittance of thirty-nine
Let me tell you about my contacts (or attempts at) with Phoenix:
1) Can you provide DNS for my domain
2) I'd like my 'free webspace'
3) Can't connect to the Cisco rack at the co.
1 - never answered.
2 - never answered.
3 - after 3 hours finally talked to someone. Next day they stopped all telephone communications including voice mail messages. Never answered email sent before and after phone call. Three days later still no service. I called the CLEC who said Phoenix canceled the trouble ticket on my problem. He says by contract he can't tell me more - he laughed and said, "Oh, Phoenix" as he read what they did, and said he sympathised with all of us residential customers. I then FAXed a complaint giving them a time limit and said if it's not fixed or I am not called by x date then the credit issuer will be advised to disallow all further charges from Phoenix. Only then did they call me and did a conference call with the CLEC who immediately found the line was open and arranged for repair. 9 days without service.
Please feel free to tell me where any of my contacts have been unreasonable or inappropriate and how the behaviour of Phoenix can be considered acceptable? 9 days of no service for a problem that took 2 minutes to diagnose. Certainly you agree that that they have an obligation to provide a minimal amount of support staff to handle foreseeable problems, both technical and administrative in nature. And that they must deal with such problems in a timely fashion. I can not imagine anyone arguing that an open line is my problem or responsibility beyond reporting a problem (pr attempting to since they have made damn near impossible) and that they are not obligated to repair such problems as arise through no fault of my own to their equipment whether leased or owned or otherwise under their control. They have, as I said, even prohibited the CLEC from acting on anything I tell them. They have required that all problems be sent in the first instance to them for any action to occur. This is not a legal complexity. They set this up this way. They are obligated to perform or to release us without penalty for their failure to perform.
I appreciate your opinion but I don't want to make this into a general discussion of the responsibilities of a business. This is focused on Phoenix and MegaPath and their current behaviours.Content-Disposition: form-data; name="follow"
on |
|
