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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
reply to Time4aNAP

Re: It don't mean a thing....

The music industry is heading rapidly to a unstable state, they want to eliminate all sources to where the sheep get their music. This is their way of "controlling the content".

Once they control the content, their is no other way of getting music other from them. CD sales might come to a complete halt and DRM infested files are for your viewing pleasure.

Let the music industry starve itself too death, I am sure Beethoven was more concerned about profits than actually making music...

The true purpose of music has lost itself, thanks to money.
--
Duct tape, saving lives since 1942.

Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
said by Michieru2:

The music industry is heading rapidly to a unstable state, they want to eliminate all sources to where the sheep get their music. This is their way of "controlling the content".

Once they control the content, their is no other way of getting music other from them. CD sales might come to a complete halt and DRM infested files are for your viewing pleasure.
They can put as many locks as they want on that barn door. It's not going to be productive when the barn is empty and the horses are nowhere to be found. At a time when AES/EBU quality recording equipment is well within the reach of most any band, studio fees are rapidly becoming a non-issue. And web hosting is practically free, so shutting down the pressing plants, and therefore the brick and mortar outlets will put the major labels in the same window as everybody else. Not too bright of them, but I'm not complaining.

I use open-source software for my multimedia needs. My software simply makes the DRM stuff go away. But I do have high quality standards. The low-bitrate swill that they're peddling holds no interest for me. I wouldn't subject my ears to it if it was free.

Let the music industry starve itself too death, I am sure Beethoven was more concerned about profits than actually making music...

The true purpose of music has lost itself, thanks to money.
Back when only a member of the aristocracy had any hope of gaining the use of a piano-forte, making a living was a non-issue for famous composers. Yes, they could afford to live unproductive lives of luxury if they so chose, and had the luxury of making music for the sheer enjoyment of it. But that means statistically that for every Beethoven, there were a dozen people who had the capacity to blow Beethoven away, but never got the chance because of their station in life.

Classical music isn't superior due to its age, and the relatively small numbers of good classical works speaks more about the lack of technology than it does to the skill of the composer. From Salieri to Biafra, the music industry, just like any other business, has had its spoil-sports. That's human nature; it will never go away. But technology continues to bridge the gap between talent and the audience. And as powerful as the RIAA may seem, they can't put a dent in the advancement of technology.

The technology to create, perform, record and distribute music has fallen into the hands of the Proletariat. And it can't be undone. Why would you want to kill the music industry when you're a vital part of that industry? Do you really want to cut off your head to spite your nose? If you truly think that music should be abolished because it's been spoiled by money, you're just listening to the wrong music.

Right now there's more newly-released music out there than you could hope to compare and contrast over the entire course of your life. If you haven't found the right stuff, you must not have been looking too hard. Or even worse, you may have turned over your free will to corporate marketing departments. It doesn't have to be like that.
--
Dead webcasters don't make cents.


Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL

1 edit
The problem is that those horses are locked under contract by their farmer. But I think horses are the wrong animal and cows or goats will be be far more descriptive on what I am trying to say. The cows and goats eat grass and have their asses cleaned. While the farmer milks the cows and goats for all they are worth he is giving very little in return towards the animals themselves.

But cows cannot grab their tits and sell their milk because they don't know how, which is why I said some can be as dumb as a door bell. So even if we argued how easy it is to get noticed these days with all the technological advancements the learning curve is steep for most, while the younger generation as more understanding on the technology by the time their methods actually affect the industry as a whole will be 10 year's down the road.

Although you use open-source software for your multimedia needs to simply strip the DRM you are removing the protections the music industry has set in place. You do not decide where you can play your music, the industry does, which is why I am sure THC will just label you as some criminal right about now. No matter the quality they still own the rights to that music.

You also don't need a piano to make music, if I am not mistaken Beethoven cut the feet of his piano and placed it on the floor so he can feel the beats of his music through the wooden floor. The man was practically deaf, yet he loved to make music not as a means to make money but as an artist and as a hobby.

The only reason his success was big because he was noticed at an early age and was given the right advantage, that's not to say that others have as well while others where not so lucky themselves where noticed later or never at all.

Also their are many forms of different type of music, classical is just another genre over the many that exist today, beauty lies on those who enjoy the music a specific artist plays.

I also never stated or meant to say that music should be abolished, I am just saying that it's purpose is lost by making it a business which in return seeks profit from music itself. Hell anyone who thinks they should abolish music is a mad man.

Also most of the music I like comes from Asia and Europe and South America, the only North American music I probably listen too is more than likely 100% country.

I would prefer if the music industry died and had a rebirth, because the current system is broken. The RIAA are a greedy bunch of bastards that deserve no respect nor anyone's cash. I worked in the industry, while not in a label I did attend big events and even met some of these artists and attended workshops about working in the industry.

The sad part is that when they popped the magic question of "How many here illegally download music?" The entire audience was with raised hands. I of course was hiding behind the mixing board with my hand down as Pitbull a local Miami rap artist was giving his little speech.

Once the question was asked the question nor a discussion about it was ever brought up. Just goes to that times are changing.
--
Duct tape, saving lives since 1942.


Jason Levine
Premium
join:2001-07-13
USA
said by Michieru2:

The problem is that those horses are locked under contract by their farmer. But I think horses are the wrong animal and cows or goats will be be far more descriptive on what I am trying to say. The cows and goats eat grass and have their asses cleaned. While the farmer milks the cows and goats for all they are worth he is giving very little in return towards the animals themselves.

But cows cannot grab their tits and sell their milk because they don't know how, which is why I said some can be as dumb as a door bell. So even if we argued how easy it is to get noticed these days with all the technological advancements the learning curve is steep for most, while the younger generation as more understanding on the technology by the time their methods actually affect the industry as a whole will be 10 year's down the road.
There are actually a lot of artists who are moving away from the mainstream (RIAA) recording industry and moving to more profitable (for them) models. There are even "recording label-esque" websites like Amie Street and eMusic which help promote the artists music in exchange for a cut of the sales. I say "recording label-esque" because, unlike the major recording industries, these sites 1) don't lock the artists into unfair contracts, 2) don't take most of the sale, 3) don't rely on DRM to maintain an illusion of absolute control, and 4) don't act as if their greatest enemy is the music fan.

I don't see these sites eclipsing the mainstream recording industry tomorrow, but, like you said, the younger generation is more likely to use these services. Eventually, the mainstream recording industry will either adopt their methods or be eclipsed by them. I'd pin the adapt or die date in five or ten years.

Of course, this prediction is invalid if the recording industry somehow rams legislation through Congress declaring these sites to be pirate sites. I'm not sure they'd succeed, but I wouldn't put it past them. (Possibly by a law requiring all music online to be DRM "protected" no matter who the rights holders were.)

said by Michieru2:

Although you use open-source software for your multimedia needs to simply strip the DRM you are removing the protections the music industry has set in place. You do not decide where you can play your music, the industry does, which is why I am sure THC will just label you as some criminal right about now. No matter the quality they still own the rights to that music.
I couldn't agree more. This is why I've never purchased a song on iTunes or gotten a subscription to a music site. I want my music to be mine and not dictated by the whims of the recording industry or my financial state. (If I'm low on funds one month, I shouldn't lose my entire music collection because I can't afford a subscription fee.)

said by Michieru2:

I also never stated or meant to say that music should be abolished, I am just saying that it's purpose is lost by making it a business which in return seeks profit from music itself. Hell anyone who thinks they should abolish music is a mad man.
I think that there's a compromise between music as pure art (no business at all) and music as pure business (current state of the mainstream recording industry -- crank out the "hits" to keep propping up sales). You can produce great music because you love it and still earn money doing it. The mainstream recording industry has just lost sight of the art of making music and instead focuses on draining every last cent out of each artist/trend they happen upon.

said by Michieru2:

I would prefer if the music industry died and had a rebirth, because the current system is broken. The RIAA are a greedy bunch of bastards that deserve no respect nor anyone's cash.
I doubt you'll find many here to disagree with that. On a personal level, though, I'm a lot more interested in music now that I've found the independent material than I have been in a long time. Will I still buy RIAA-produced CDs? Yes, but extremely rarely. Most likely, I will attempt to get them used first and if that fails I'll buy it new after much hesitation. I'm likely to buy only one or two CDs (used or new) per year from RIAA artists, but I've purchased 75 songs in the past 4 months from Amie Street artists.

The music industry is changing/adapting. It's just the RIAA labels which aren't part of this change.

Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
reply to Michieru2
You can only take a metaphor so far. Let's stick with what "locking the barn door after the horses have escaped" means.

Although you use open-source software for your multimedia needs to simply strip the DRM you are removing the protections the music industry has set in place. You do not decide where you can play your music, the industry does, which is why I am sure THC will just label you as some criminal right about now. No matter the quality they still own the rights to that music.
And when I enter into a contract to obtain certain rights to that music, so do I. No amount of name-calling, from THC or anybody else will make anyone a criminal. And yes, I do decide where and when I play my music, as well as what I play. The RIAA might want to take that choice away from me, but the fact is that they aren't that powerful.

I also never stated or meant to say that music should be abolished, I am just saying that it's purpose is lost by making it a business which in return seeks profit from music itself. Hell anyone who thinks they should abolish music is a mad man.
You'd better believe in a sanity clause, then. Because musicians are the cornerstone of the music industry. Without them you have no music. So if the music industry goes away, so does music.

The sad part is that when they popped the magic question of "How many here illegally download music?" The entire audience was with raised hands.
The thing that I find sad about that is that the audience would have raised their hands if asked any number of questions, ranging from marital infidelity, to traffic offenses to cheating on their taxes. But that's another topic.

If you're trying to suggest that, because a group of people somewhere believed that they had done something illegal, without first getting legal council to determine if that was actually the fact, that you can extrapolate that small sample to say that every music listener is a criminal, you're just making a slippery slope. Your example of the psychological phenomenon that causes people to believe most anything if it's repeated enough times underscores how people are all too willing to be lead around by their nose by others. That audience was being manipulated.

Right now we face a singular problem: a trade association that has completely abandoned the charter under which it was established, and has become a parasite. In case you didn't know, taking money from people under false pretenses is a crime. The RIAA is a criminal enterprise. Although the federal justice department is currently unable to do its job, there are still 50 state's attorney offices that can prosecute this case. Any one of them could bring down the RIAA.

But for some reason, the artists who ought to be lining up to file criminal complaints, aren't. Are they being paid off to not report that they've been ripped off? That seems to be an oxymoron, but stranger things have happened. Are they being intimidated? Possibly. Time will tell.
--
Dead webcasters don't make cents.


Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
The music industry we are referring to here is those that are the distributors of the content providers which are the musicians themselves.

You can think of a cow as a musician, but the one who packages the milk, cleans and purifies it for you to drink safely is the distributor/RIAA.

A.k.a

Sony BMG
Warner Bros
Ultra Records

and so forth.

Also any audience is manipulated, because I am sure one of the most notorious (Sony BMG) popped that question. They know people download music illegally, they just don't know how to stop it. They where expecting a safe ground of a few of those who will go "Yeah I do! WOOO!" while the rest of the audience remained quiet.

They cannot find someone that agrees with their point of view. So to even bring up "it's illegal and wrong" discussion was irrelevant.

We can change the metaphor if you want, but I am trying to make my message as clear as glass.

But

Also any audience is manipulated, because I am sure one of the most notorious (Sony BMG) popped that question. They know people download music illegally, they just don't know how to stop it. They where expecting a safe ground of a few of those who will go "Yeah I do! WOOO!" while the rest of the audience remained quiet.

They cannot find someone that agrees with their point of view. So to even bring up "it's illegal and wrong" discussion was irrelevant.

We can change the metaphor if you want but I am trying to make my message clear as glass.

Also remember when I said some artists are dumb as a door bell? Well now you k

Also any audience is manipulated, because I am sure one of the most notorious (Sony BMG) popped that question. They know people download music illegally, they just don't know how to stop it. They where expecting a safe ground of a few of those who will go "Yeah I do! WOOO!" while the rest of the audience remained quiet.

They cannot find someone that agrees with their point of view. So to even bring up "it's illegal and wrong" discussion was irrelevant.

Also we can change the metaphor if you want but I am trying to make my message as clear as possible.

Also remember when I said some artists are dumb as a door bell? Well now you know why they are not suing.
--
Duct tape, saving lives since 1942.

Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
I'd prefer to do without the metaphors altogether.

The music industry includes a lot of honorable professions. I don't like being lumped together with the Big Three record labels when my involvement in the music industry has nothing whatsoever to do with the production of records (that includes CD and other media as well). Call a spade a spade, but leave the clubs, hearts and diamonds out of it.
--
Dead webcasters don't make cents.


Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
Again maybe you know something or how things work better than I do on the matter but the overall picture and aura given out by the music industry is not a good one.
--
Duct tape, saving lives since 1942.

Time4aNAP
Premium
join:2007-04-09
Des Plaines, IL
With all due respect, you might want to examine your own actions, or lack thereof, when handing out blame. The recording industry (the "RI" in RIAA) is a separate entity from the music industry. Not all music is recorded, and not all recordings are music. In fact, spoken voice recordings outnumber musical recordings, both in number and total length.

During the Vietnam War, America's enemies were varied and cunning. However this didn't justify indiscriminate retaliation, like the My Lai massacre. Fortunately the RIAA shenanigans are a far cry from the death and destruction of warfare, but the same principles apply. So if you don't know who is friend or foe, it's best to hold your tongue until you do.
--
Dead webcasters don't make cents.