TommyC19
join:2007-07-19
Brookeville, MD
|  [Xtreme] Random port blocking of Home DSL 6.0 service
I am seeking information on port blocking by BellSouth/ATT. I have had the service for over 16 months and need more than just port 80 traffic. I have a novelty email address (non-bellsouth) that I used for over 10 years before using this service. Learning about the port 25 blocking was no big deal since any ding bat with half a brain can figure out ways around this. Then I noticed they started blocking other ports like 26 and so on... My email provider has changed configuration of his SMTP virtual server like three times in three months and after sending only 10 pieces of mail using these other ports the blocking starts and I have to pick another non-standard port. You know with there being over 65k ports available this could go on till the end of the next century. So I got to talking with my web site/email pop provider and he suggested encrypting the traffic with certificates and pushing it down another one of the 65k ports available. Now the brain trust at Bellsouth/ATT has no way to sniff the packets because they can't crack them.
This makes the entire scenario much more interesting legally. Reason being I am not breaking any laws to begin with. No Spoofing, no hacking, no nothing other than sending about 10 pieces of mail each week. Heck I bet my bandwidth usage is of one of the lowest of all home users since I live on PPTP and VPN. And most importantly I am not Spamming or running a business or server from my home. A quick check on my usage would confirm this which I presume they've already done else they'd have kicked me to the curb long ago. I think this whole Bellsouth/ATT thing has nothing to do with them trying to "Clean up spammers" and more to do with selling business class services which is nothing more than the same dang pipe without all the restrictions. The big hint would be that spammers would just then pay for the business class to avoid the trouble and SPAM anyway and Bellsouth/ATT finds a way to profit from that. Shame on them!
Now before you go reciting that this is unacceptable use of the network for a home user ... show me anywhere the legal terms of use or acceptable use docs posted on the portal says that home use customers can only use port 80 web based traffic.
Today I use NNTP, SMTP, POP3, VPN and PPTP not mention the ports needed to connect to various machines for testing SQL Dev and such.
I personally believe that Bellsouth/ATT is breaking my contract by not providing access to all ports (other than 25 which I could careless about). AND don't get me started about the RIP-OFF of having to pay for a phone line that I don't use. Yep 30 bucks a month for something I've never had a use for. Cable Companies has Bellsouth covered here by offering non-cable subscribers to pay a nominal $10.00 a month charge to elect not having their service shoved down customers throats. Bellsouth/ATT really could learn something from the Cable Companies in America.
As such, I am interested in any feedback from others who have faced this issue and if there are any pending class action suits for such. If so, please forward the info to me tommy@racerpages.com to save me a couple of days of research and phone calls. Also Does anyone know of a good Customer Advocate team at Bellsouth/ATT that is really interested in hearing the problem? After dealing with the general DSL customer service group I was left with the impression today that they really do not care about one customer and pretty much told me to take a flying leap and good luck on my research. They will do what they want when they want and there is little to nothing I can do about it because they left the contractual legal jargon opened end with the key phrase that says this document can be changed at any time with or without notice. I have several of the CEOs and Board members contact informatio nand plan on sending complaints on this to them but would be very interested in group efforts against this of force bussiness class services when they are not needed.
Sorry for the length of this post but I had no easy way to provide detailed feedback on the experience I've had with my DSL service at BellSouth.
Cheers,
-Tommy |
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RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN
| said by TommyC19  :I personally believe that Bellsouth/ATT is breaking my contract by not providing access to all ports (other than 25 which I could careless about... I'm curious as to what reasoning leads you to that belief? |
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karthwyne
join:2003-04-27
Atlanta, GA
 ·AT&T Southeast
| reply to TommyC19
said by TommyC19 :Today I use NNTP, SMTP, POP3, VPN and PPTP not mention the ports needed to connect to various machines for testing SQL Dev and such. i do most of this as well, and vnc connections, connect to ftp servers, and a whole host of other things without any problems.
i can't swear that there is no new blocking going on, but i haven't been affected |
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TommyC19
join:2007-07-19
Brookeville, MD
| reply to RJ44
said by RJ44 :said by TommyC19 :I personally believe that Bellsouth/ATT is breaking my contract by not providing access to all ports (other than 25 which I could careless about... I'm curious as to what reasoning leads you to that belief? Because they confirmed it over the phone after I confirmed it through use of tools like telnet when trying to connect to my externally hosted SMTP server. Use Vista or XP wired directly to the DSL box (firewall turned off) and try to telnet to any known SMTP server on 25, 26, 2525, 2526 and you will see that you cannot not open a telnet session. I'd really be interested in hearing if I am the only one being blocked for non-normal SMTP traffic on ports other than 25 as this will obvisouly confirm they are doing this on a 1:1 basis further justifying investigation into a breach of contract.
Give them a call and do not bother speaking to the front line folks from India. Demand to speak with a "technical" manager and they will confirm exactly what I have spelled out here.
In my mind (and maybe I am wrong for thinking this way) I believe that when I purchase "Internet Access" it should be fully open for me to use provided I do follow the guidelines for normal use and I do not break any laws. If Bellsouth/ATT decide to start blocking and do not spell it out exactly on the Terms of Use legal page from their own portal I feel they have breached the contract of service I have purchased and I believe any court would be interested in learning more about this if for nothing more than to remove any and all ambiguity with respect to what it is the consumer feels they can or cannot do.
I will post back on my progress since it appears that no one has any info on class actions or other consumer protection work happening around this.
Thanks for the emails and replies thus far!
-Tommy |
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FAQFixer
Premium
join:2004-06-28
Powder Springs, GA
| reply to TommyC19
The reason you are not going to find anyone with a legitimate class action suit for this is because it is laughable. In this type of suit, lawyers usually take it on a contingency basis. They have reasonable grounds to think they will prevail and get paid via the settlement. Within 30 seconds of hearing your issues and reading the Terms of Service, AUP, and Service Agreement you will be quietly (and quite quickly) asked to leave. You may want to try EFF, they have like-minded teenagers who bring this stuff up all the time on their blogs and chats.
I'm also curious why you don't use cable since "...BellSouth/ATT really could learn something from the Cable Companies in America"? |
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mikes60
My Paradise
Premium
join:2001-07-31
Boynton Beach, FL
·AT&T Southeast
 ·Vonage
1 edit | reply to TommyC19
Just out of curiosity, Brookeville, MD ???
I didn't think this was BellSouth Territory.
Is there any more to this story?
Since you joined yesterday, I would assume the address is current.
--
No good deed goes unpunished. |
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TommyC19
join:2007-07-19
Brookeville, MD
| reply to FAQFixer
Thanks for your feedback!
ROFL – Unless I conveyed my questions as "like minded teenagers" I really don’t fit the profile and would prefer talking amongst intelligent adults sharing the same experiences. I am 43 and have worked at and still do work for a multi-billion dollar global corporation and head up much of our community (newsgroup and forum) work globally including consumer and internal tools development. Now that we all know a little more about me personally I would prefer to stay on topic and avoid any future redirects without real merit.
The reason I don't use cable today should be as obvious as the nose on both of our faces. I can't get it yet in the rural farm area I live in. It is coming and I certainly plan on moving over as soon as humanely possible. However, today I am stuck with what I would consider “DSL-Lite” that is advertised today as “DSL EXTREEME!!!” (insert that awe-inspiring echo here)
That being said and with no disrespect to anyone on this forum including you after flaming me for even bringing this up, I wonder if anyone else is pondering the legitimacy of this complaint. If so, try it and if you are not completely disappointed at the mind set of "you can't do it merely cause I said so" then I guess you have the perfect service.
You also said, "because it is laughable". Could you please be clearer in that statement? As I have mentioned before, I could be completely out of line here and if that is the case I'd certainly step down and apologize for the time everyone used in reading thought my complaint. However, simply saying “it is laughable” is really … well … laughable – is it not? Touché!
For those that are interested in the subject line and not about me, I did receive some rather interesting email from some that prefer to remain anonymous (hmm … I wonder why?) and this has helped a bit but still not the meat and potatoes I am really seeking. For anyone else that is taking the time to read through this lengthy thread and only if you have experienced this exact issue or have thought of pursuing research into the facts of this thread (the home user version of DSL Extreme 6.0 – THE TOP DSL Package being sold by Bellsouth/ATT requires an upgrade to business class services ) jump in or email your thoughts.
Well, thanks again for your time and I hope to find real answers on this really aggravating, time losing, “DSL-Lite”, limited Internet pipe, money pit of a service I have to use today.
Cheers,
-Tommy |
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TommyC19
join:2007-07-19
Brookeville, MD | Well, I just got pinged by the moderators. They are aksing that we stay on topic which is also what I asked in my last post so before this thread is wiped - please no more flames.
Thank you!
-Tommy |
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TommyC19
join:2007-07-19
Brookeville, MD | reply to mikes60
I am not sure what the address of my posts are showing but I am located in North Carolina just outside of Charlotte.
Thanks!
-Tommy |
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mikes60
My Paradise
Premium
join:2001-07-31
Boynton Beach, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Vonage
| said by TommyC19 :I am not sure what the address of my posts are showing but I am located in North Carolina just outside of Charlotte. Thanks! -Tommy Okay, now it makes more sense. Your location that shows on your posts, which you can see in any of your posts, is determined by the zip code you enter when you sign up. You probably just hit a wrong digit.
If you want to correct it, just click on "Members" in the left column of the home page and update your ZIP. No big deal, but it explains why you're in this forum.
--
No good deed goes unpunished. |
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RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN
| reply to TommyC19
said by TommyC19 :said by RJ44 :said by TommyC19 :I personally believe that Bellsouth/ATT is breaking my contract by not providing access to all ports (other than 25 which I could careless about... I'm curious as to what reasoning leads you to that belief? Because they confirmed it over the phone after I confirmed it through use of tools like telnet when trying to connect to my externally hosted SMTP server. Use Vista or XP wired directly to the DSL box (firewall turned off) and try to telnet to any known SMTP server on 25, 26, 2525, 2526 and you will see that you cannot not open a telnet session. I'd really be interested in hearing if I am the only one being blocked for non-normal SMTP traffic on ports other than 25 as this will obvisouly confirm they are doing this on a 1:1 basis further justifying investigation into a breach of contract. Give them a call and do not bother speaking to the front line folks from India. Demand to speak with a "technical" manager and they will confirm exactly what I have spelled out here. In my mind (and maybe I am wrong for thinking this way) I believe that when I purchase "Internet Access" it should be fully open for me to use provided I do follow the guidelines for normal use and I do not break any laws. If Bellsouth/ATT decide to start blocking and do not spell it out exactly on the Terms of Use legal page from their own portal I feel they have breached the contract of service I have purchased and I believe any court would be interested in learning more about this if for nothing more than to remove any and all ambiguity with respect to what it is the consumer feels they can or cannot do. I will post back on my progress since it appears that no one has any info on class actions or other consumer protection work happening around this. Thanks for the emails and replies thus far! -Tommy I know port 25 is blocked, I was curious as to what made you feel you could successfully sue AT&T for blocking ports at all. Personally I think your impression of your "rights" on their network is incorrect. They don't spell out every possible step they may take, but surely you can't miss all the "cover your butt" terminology in there? They basically can manage it as they please, at least that's the way I read it. |
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RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN
| reply to TommyC19
said by TommyC19 :(the home user version of DSL Extreme 6.0 – THE TOP DSL Package being sold by Bellsouth/ATT requires an upgrade to business class services ) I think I'm lost. Where did that sentence come from and why? There is no requirement to have business class service in order to get Xtreme 6.0. |
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av8r
I'd Rather Be Flying
Premium
join:2002-06-14
Boca Raton, FL
clubs:
1 edit | reply to TommyC19
Have you tried using port 587 (Message Submission) RFC 2476?
This is what the message submission port is designed for. I have had no issues at all using it to connect to non-ATT servers.
As a side note - you stated that you use very little bandwidth as everything goes over VPN. The VPN uses more bandwidth than an open connection due to overhead. Not an issue, as you are entitled to use all the bandwidth you are paying for (within the rules, naturally).
--
If I am not for myself, Who will be for me? If I am only for myself, What am I? If not now, When? -- Hillel |
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TommyC19
join:2007-07-19
Brookeville, MD
| reply to RJ44
Oh - Sorry for the lack of supporting information.
After a number of phone calls and complaints to BellSouth/ATT they are continually telling me that for what I need to do I need to upgrade to the business class service and all of the port restrictions would be eliminated. However, I am not running a business from home and am not hosting a server. |
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TommyC19
join:2007-07-19
Brookeville, MD
| reply to av8r
Thanks AV8R!
This is good information. I will review this RFC and see if this fits as well as it looks like it may. 
You'd think that the folks at Bellsouth/ATT would have customer ready info like this available. (scratching head)
Cheers,
-Tommy |
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RJ44
join:2001-10-19
Nashville, TN
| reply to TommyC19
said by TommyC19 :Oh - Sorry for the lack of supporting information. After a number of phone calls and complaints to BellSouth/ATT they are continually telling me that for what I need to do I need to upgrade to the business class service and all of the port restrictions would be eliminated. However, I am not running a business from home and am not hosting a server. Thanks, I misunderstood then. Business class is required in order to remove the port 25 blocking, but not for Xtreme 6.0 itself. |
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mikes60
My Paradise
Premium
join:2001-07-31
Boynton Beach, FL
·AT&T Southeast
·Vonage
| reply to TommyC19
said by TommyC19 :Thanks AV8R! This is good information. I will review this RFC and see if this fits as well as it looks like it may. You'd think that the folks at Bellsouth/ATT would have customer ready info like this available. (scratching head) Cheers, -Tommy I currently use port 587 for 3 non-AT&T/BellSouth email accounts I use.
I find most other non-telco ISPs offer port 587 because they recognize that telco, and other non-business ISPs, very often block port 587.
The easy way to check is just to change the outgoing port on these non-AT&T/BellSouth accounts and see if they go out. If they do- problem solved. If not call them and ask them to add port 587 access. I doubt that AT&T/BellSouth will ever block port 587.
--
No good deed goes unpunished. |
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Airwolf7
Premium
join:2004-12-12
Franklin, KY
·AT&T Southeast
| reply to TommyC19
I read you post last night before anyone had replied and I was going to help you, then as I was preparing my reply something about the tone of your post just hit me wrong and I said to myself "Well just F**K Him.".
I came back today and I see you are still crying and it looks like it is going to turn into a big flame job on both sides so I went to work on my projects and eat me some lunch. Then while I was eating I thought to myself "If I help him maybe he will quit crying and go away.".
So here is your answer, Now quit crying and go away.
Also Bellsouth ain't blocking no ports, well they ain't blocking my ports anyway. I spent about 15 minutes reconfiguring my network, bridging my modem, turning off firewalls, and scanning ports, and guess what they were not blocked.
If they are blocking your ports then they just don't like you.
If this does not fix your problem then read the directions and try again.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Problem: Unable to send E-mail Using an E-mail Provider Other than BellSouth.net
»help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···23b7080a
Use This Article When:
You are having the following e-mail problems:
Receive an error message, "Could not connect to server", when trying to send e-mail.
E-mail timing out when trying to send.
Solution:
In order to send e-mail using an e-mail provider other than Bellsouth.net (Ex. Yahoo Premium Mail Service, AOL Main, MSN Premium Service, etc...) when Port 25 filtering has been enabled, you will need to set-up your e-mail client (Ex. Outlook Express, Outlook, Netscape Mail) to send outgoing e-mail through the mail.bellsouth.net SMTP server address.
To get customized instructions on how to set-up mail.bellsouth.net for your SMTP (outgoing mail server) address, please select the e-mail client you are using from the list below:
Windows:
Outlook Express: »help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···0914e9e3
Outlook 2000: »help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···eb276045
Outlook 2002/2003: »help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···388c978e
Netscape Mail: »help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···e9f8c766
MAC:
Apple Mail: »help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···ef86a158
Entourage: »help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···f36e75bd
Root Cause:
Port 25 Filtering
Related Solutions:
FAQ: Port 25: »help.bellsouth.net/bellsouth/asp···c6de7fc8
Port 25 Filtering
In an effort to help protect customers against unwanted junk e-mail (spam), BellSouth instituted
a new policy called "Port 25 filtering." Port 25 filtering should benefit customers by reducing spam; however, a small number of customers may need to change their e-mail settings.
WHAT IS PORT 25 FILTERING?
Port 25 filtering helps stop spammers from sending out unauthorized junk e-mail by preventing BellSouth Internet Service e-mail from being sent out through any non-BellSouth mail servers. With Port 25 filtering, anyone logged in to a BellSouth Internet Service access number will only be able to send e-mail through the BellSouth mail servers, thereby allowing BellSouth to help block spam sent through our network.
DO I NEED TO DO ANYTHING?
If you only use BellSouth Internet Service to send e-mail, you should not have to make any changes. If you have a second, non-BellSouth Internet Service e-mail account you may need to make a change.
SECONDARY E-MAIL ACCOUNTS
Any BellSouth Internet Service customer who has a secondary e-mail account (that is not a BellSouth Internet Service account or a BellSouth Web E-mail account) will not be able to send e-mail using that secondary account's outgoing (SMTP) mail servers. You should still be able to receive e-mail normally through these accounts; however, in order to send email with your secondary account you may need to make changes to your secondary account e-mail software.
WEB-BASED E-MAIL ACCOUNTS
You will still be able to send and receive email from any Web-based mail system, such as Hotmail and Yahoo, without making any changes to your Web settings.
E-MAIL SOFTWARE SETTINGS OF SECONDARY E-MAIL ACCOUNTS
In your e-mail software, please change your outgoing (SMTP) mail server for all secondary accounts as instructed below. This will have no impact on how your sent mail appears or on the ability of people to reply to you at your secondary email account. It simply allows BellSouth Internet Service to help ensure that spam is not being sent out through the BellSouth network. If your secondary e-mail account is an AOL account, you should not have to make changes to your e-mail software.
FAQFixer if you read this maybe you can add this to the FAQ when you get time. Most of this info is in the FAQ already but you have to read between the lines and it is not very clear. Thank You |
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creepy
join:2007-05-20
Fairview Heights, IL
1 edit | If you want ATT to unblock port 25 then just follow these instructions. Worked for me and only took about 48 hours.
To request removal of the filter, use the Abuse of Service form at »help.sbcglobal.net/servabuse.php to contact our Abuse team and choose the "Opt-Out Port 25" under Abuse Type. Enter your account Member ID (also called your AT&TIS PPPOE Login ID or User ID) to opt-out. If you have multiple AT&TIS accounts you want to opt-out, please submit a separate form for each Member ID. Do not enter your email addresses from the other mail hosting provider. You should expect that it will take AT&TIS 12-24 hours to process your request.
After receiving a confirmation email, sent to the AT&TIS Member account ID being opted-out, you will need to logoff the AT&TIS network and turn off your DSL router or modem for 1 minute to remove the filter. You should then turn your modem and system back on and log in using the normal procedure. |
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Airwolf7
Premium
join:2004-12-12
Franklin, KY
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | This is AT&T Southeast formally known as BellSouth, we are AT&T Southeast in name only, basically AT&T bought BellSouth and slapped AT&T stickers over the top of the BellSouth logo.
Those instructions most likely will not work for AT&T Southeast. |
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