macaholic
Premium
join:2003-08-31
Jackson Heights, NY
1 edit | reply to kapil
Re: Lies!
windows coders put backdoors into their code to make their lives easier regarding coding.... but these little short cuts mean the user is not even aware when something is installed. Even Vista has some of this "legacy" code.
Vista addresses this by popping up a confirm window whenever something runs... (whether its run before or has the checksum). The end result is the user clicks yes all the time without even reading...
MaxOSX requires a user to enter a password whenever a program tries to install an application or if a program is about to change a system setting... its a little more picky. So the enduser knows the program/website is doing something naughty...
very simple.
This is why worms and virii are harder to implement and have much less bang for the buck on Apple hardware.
I use both window and osx... and I can say hands down Mac OSX which is debian unix based has nifty concepts of user permissions and admin user privs. OSX is a much more hardened OS than any version of Windows can hope to be....
Ben
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"You don't subject minority rights to a referendum." Justice Minister Irwin Cotler of Canada |
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Maxo
Your tax dollars at work.
Premium,VIP
join:2002-11-04
Tallahassee, FL
clubs:
| reply to jaa
said by jaa  :I have yet to see any pc exploit in "the wild" destroy my data or obtain my information. Never had any of my friends ever say this happened. In fact, I can't even remember any news reports about someone's pc getting hacked and having their personal information compromised, or data lost. This iphone story is the closest I can remember. Why would people bother looking for technical exploits to gat personal information, when it is so much easier to just ask people for it? Pay »Security Cleanup a visit.
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jaa
Premium,MVM
join:2000-06-13
 ·Optimum Online
 ·Vonage
| reply to ColorBASIC
I have yet to see any pc exploit in "the wild" destroy my data or obtain my information. Never had any of my friends ever say this happened. In fact, I can't even remember any news reports about someone's pc getting hacked and having their personal information compromised, or data lost.
This iphone story is the closest I can remember.
Why would people bother looking for technical exploits to gat personal information, when it is so much easier to just ask people for it?
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NOTHING justifies terrorism. We don't negotiate with terrorists. Those that support terrorists are terrorists. |
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dda
Premium
join:2003-12-29
Bolton, MA
| reply to WileEC
said by WileEC :So what hacker would bother exploiting less than 1% of total computers worldwide? (for the slow, those be macs). Mac sales make up about 5.8% in the US and about 2.3% in the rest of the world.
said by WileEC :What the Mac people will NEVER understand is that I don't want some pre-packaged overpriced hardware that Steve Jobs signed off on... I talked to the other 299 flip-flop wearin' hippies and none of us really care what you want. If you want to build your own PC from components of your choice more power to you; perhaps I'm missing where people are trying to force you to get a Mac or an iPhone. If you don't want to buy a Mac, I strongly suggest not buying one; that seems to keep everyone happy.  |
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Yawn
@cgocable.net | reply to JoeG4
Re: Don't like it, don't buy it. Nobody's asking you to.
I stopped at one. |
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JoeG4
join:2001-12-16
945941
 ·AT&T DSL Service
·Comcast
 ·Clearwire Wireless
·Vonage
| reply to BuriedCaesar
I've been on the fricken internet for quite a while now, and it seems every time the A word is mentioned, a few things come up:
1. The whole "Macs are just as insecure!" BS.
2. In result, security in obscurity
3. Nothing proven
4. Someone comes along, or a whole slew of "diplomats" that give their unsolicited opinion on why Apple customers are evangelist freaks and how they have macophobia, and then give a long-ass explanation about how Apple stuff isn't for them
5. I come along, and say to the #5s, who cares? I sure don't.
6. I use every OS I can get my hands on, prefer OS X, and don't give a crap otherwise.
7. I don't run anything outside of a firewall on the router as far as protection is concerned, and with our 6 macs (and 4 PCs), there hasn't been an issue with any of them - in the many years we've had all of the above
8. F all of you armchair security experts
9. Anyone who uses the word enterprise in these discussions is a jack***
10. There is no #10. |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to ColorBASIC
Re: Lies!
said by ColorBASIC :Mac OS X population is obscure because it's not big enough to get the desired results. Then why all the hubbub? Why does just about every mainstream news outlet practically fall over themselves any time there is even the slightest hint that the Mac OS might have been compromised in some tiny, insignificant manner, that, to date, hasn't affected even ONE Mac separate and apart from whatever testing environment in which the exploit or flaw or hole or whatever you want to call it was created?
Seems a bit out of proportion.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
4 edits | reply to ender7074
Yep, my 3GHz Quad Xeon workstation t'is WAY underpowered. I'm amazed that I can squeak by with only 6GB of RAM and only a single GB of video RAM. But that's not so bad considering it was $700 cheaper than the equivalent Dell and $380 cheaper than buying the equivalent parts from Newegg. Perhaps I could have had something as cool as you have but I spent what little money I had left on an iPhone and these slick Steve Jobs Underoos. But hey, I did get these two very cool white Apple logo stickers so I can show off my obvious superiority to anyone I can get to pay attention. (Now THAT is a joke...my Mac Pro really is fast and I don't have a pair of Steve Jobs Underoos).
Got any more fables in that Apple Hater Handbook of yours?
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to kapil
said by kapil :Yes, thanks to a concept us IT and Security folk call security-through-obscurity Uhm, no. That may have been true back in the pre-OS X days, but that isn't the case any more. OS X is basically the same OS that the hackers are using, just with a pretty GUI and some nice apps.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
1 edit | reply to ColorBASIC
Ahh your next master move, to make no sense. Nice comeback. I'm bored with you now. Goodbye. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
1 edit | reply to ender7074
You dizzy yet? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
| reply to BuriedCaesar
You can't take attackers as a sum. When each individual choice to deploy an exploit is made, they're going to do what will give them the biggest impact. In that sense, Mac OS X population is obscure because it's not big enough to get the desired results.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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ender7074
join:2006-11-21
Saint Louis, MO
·AT&T Southeast
1 edit | reply to ColorBASIC
said by ColorBASIC :It wasn't a joke and now you're into this spin. You made claims you couldn't support and have no clue what you're talking about. And of course it was only a matter of time before bring up 1 button mice as virtually all the clueless Apple haters do. They're all playing from the 1990 Gate$ playlist. FYI, Mac OS has had contextual menus since OS 8.6 (that's about 10 years now) but don't let facts get in your way. Don't like Apple's products, don't buy them. It's really not that hard of a concept to get, but endlessly whining about products who aren't interested in or don't own is simply silly. It's certainly not inaccurate for a Mac OS user to make the statement that OS X users don't face threats. That is a simple fact that has your panties in a bunch. Get over it. I believe that it's your panties in a bunch. Again, let me add this just because you can't seem to comprehend the word joke. Note the very last line in the definition. If this doesnt work, maybe we can all pitch in and get you a hooked on phonics book.
I do love your amature attempt at psychology by trying to tell me what I was thinking when I wrote the original post. You must be a real expert, or psychic, to be able to deduce what I was thinking. I also love your comment about "spin". Now THAT was funny. Do you actually think I care if some people on a website are angry with me? You think this is some kind of popularity contest? BWAHAHAHAHAHA, now THATS a joke.
One final thing before I give you the definition of joke, which you seem to sorely need. You have said in multiple posts that Macs are only vulnerable in a lab setting and then dared anyone to prove you wrong. You seem to be the "spin" guy here with your last line. Contradicted yourself nicely, I would say. And I believe that you are the one who needs to "get over it".
I could care less if anyone buys Apple products, as I have stated in previous posts. I'll never buy them. They are overpriced and underpowered. Oh, and I don't think the Almighty Jobs needs your defense so you don't need to be making this some kind of personal crusade.
joke (jôk)
n.
Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement, especially an amusing story with a punch line.
A mischievous trick; a prank.
An amusing or ludicrous incident or situation.
Informal.
Something not to be taken seriously; a triviality: The accident was no joke.
An object of amusement or laughter; a laughingstock: His loud tie was the joke of the office.
v., joked, jok·ing, jokes.
v.intr.
To tell or play jokes; jest.
To speak in fun; be facetious.
v.tr.
To make fun of; tease. |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to kapil
said by kapil :Yes, thanks to a concept us IT and Security folk call security-through-obscurity. There isn't as much malware targeted at Apple products because the criminals profit more by targeting Windows machines since there are many more of them. 23+ million estimated installed base for Mac OS X is considered "obscure"? I suppose the converse of this overly-used and simplistic concept is "insecurity-through-ubiquity"? Maybe also known as "job security"?
Or, maybe, are those criminals also profiting perhaps because targeting a Windows machine is just flat easier from a security standpoint?
And, the first person to successfully create something (anything) that will not require some sort of significant user interaction before wreaking even the mildest havoc on a Mac will effectively shake the entire computer universe to its very core. And become immortal in the process. You don't think they're out there trying right now? I don't believe that for a second.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
2 edits | reply to AnonShawUser
Surfing unimpeded I would think because these lab exploits haven't appeared in the wild. All OSes and browsers have vulnerabilities, but to be a problem they have to be exploited. Because of Safari (and Mac in general) low population and quick patching, no one is bothering to take one of these lab-exploits and put it into practice.
In terms of actual OS X security, it looks to me that Vista is just as secure or more so. If OS X saw the same relentless onslaught that the Windows platform does, you would see the same results we do with Windows and I would be buying and installing a NOD32 for Macintosh.
That's the weirdness, OS X is more secure but not because it's more secure.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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AnonShawUser
join:2006-06-17
Calgary, AB
| reply to BuriedCaesar
Wait.. surfing unimpeded? You mean even through all those repeated Safari bugs that have caused them to have to patch more often than Firefox?
And 23 million OSX installs is nothing, when you have to stretch that out over 6 years. Not when you have literally over 250 million windows installs(all the way back to at least win98).
But, I will grant you.. there is heightened security by not locking the browser right to the OS itself. Shame Linux can't take that lesson as well, since I truly hate that design feature, for the same reason I don't use IE on windows. But keep in mind, a lot more windows users don't keep their systems up to date. I've seen far too many times where the OSX patches are deemed critical for security reasons, which readily leads one to believe that if the relatively few Mac users out there weren't keeping their system patched up constantly, there'd be a lot more issues to worry over. |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
2 edits | reply to BuriedCaesar
That's the thing...installed bases don't dictate the number of viruses.
The fact that Mac OS X have zero viruses in the wild is due to in large part it's small installed base. You aren't going to have 16% of virus writers choose to attack OS X. You'll have each of them choosing to attack platform with the largest installed base as that will give them the biggest return on their time investment.
If Mac OS X represents 50% of the desktop market, THEN you'll see OS X regularly attacked. So long as Mac OS desktop share remains single digits, no one is going to bother attacking it other than to get some money or fame (lab exploits).
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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BuriedCaesar
It's Not Polite To Stare.
join:2004-03-27
Richardson, TX
·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Yahoo
| reply to AnonShawUser
said by AnonShawUser :"That means, the hackers out in the rest of the world simply don't care about Macs. And if they aren't trying to hack it, it's not going to be exploited. Systems don't hack themselves, and the last time I looked, security companies don't actively try to hack systems outside of their safety network. Thus, your Mac security is 100% based on obscurity."
I'll 100% respectfully disagree with your "100% based on obscurity" claim and toss a few questions back at ya.
"There are zero-percent (0%) of viruses for the Mac OS X platform that should, logically, have some 10-16% of the world's viruses if platforms' install bases dictate the numbers of viruses. The fact that Mac OS X has zero (0) viruses in the wild totally discounts "security via obscurity." 23+ million Mac OS X installs is not an "obscure" platform at all, but 6+ years of Mac OS X users surfing unimpeded certainly is "secure." There should be at least some Mac OS X viruses. There are none out there. The reason for this fact is not attributable solely to 'obscurity,' it's attributable to superior security design."
Source: »www.macdailynews.com/index.php/w···_iphone/
Yes, the link is from a well-known fan site, and you're probably eager to brush it off as such, but 23+ MILLION users - and growing? How in the world can that number possibly be considered "obscure"?
And the first person who successfully releases a virus into the wild that significantly affects even ONE Mac will be hailed as a virtual deity in the haxor community, for all eternity. What hacker wouldn't want that sort of world-wide accolade?
And I don't believe for a second that people aren't trying. Otherwise this whole issue wouldn't be garnering such attention in the first place - from all corners.
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That was preposterous! Utter Nonsense! Totally unsupportable drivel! You can't be serious!....Um, what did you say? |
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ColorBASIC
8-bit Fun
Premium
join:2006-12-29
Corona, CA
4 edits | reply to ender7074
It wasn't a joke and now you're into this spin. You made claims you couldn't support and have no clue what you're talking about.
And of course it was only a matter of time before bring up 1 button mice as virtually all the clueless Apple haters do. They're all playing from the 1990 Gate$ playlist. FYI, Mac OS has had contextual menus since OS 8.6 (that's about 10 years now) but don't let facts get in your way.
Don't like Apple's products, don't buy them. It's really not that hard of a concept to get, but endlessly whining about products who aren't interested in or don't own is simply silly.
It's certainly not inaccurate for a Mac OS user to make the statement that OS X users don't face threats. That is a simple fact that has your panties in a bunch. Get over it.
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Macintosh Users Group Serving the Inland Empire |
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