Re: Would you put photos of children online? in Digital Imaging http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18730639 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:40:12 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:40:12 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18778591 Dynevor :
said by DreamWraith See Profile :

Again, what makes you think everyone has the exact same education as you did? Education systems and curriculum's can vary greatly from state to state, and even district to district.

There was a class in high school on Vietnam era history, but it was an elective I didn't have room in my schedule for.

That is sad. :uhh: But I presume a discussion of the poor quality of our current educational system is not appropriate to this forum..]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18778591 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:54:33 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18778373 DreamWraith :
said by Dynevor See Profile :

But most people did study history in school and college.

What is fwiw? :uhh:
Again, what makes you think everyone has the exact same education as you did? Education systems and curriculum's can vary greatly from state to state, and even district to district.

There was a class in high school on Vietnam era history, but it was an elective I didn't have room in my schedule for.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18778373 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:24:32 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18778216 Jodokast96 : A side note to pog See Profile's post, with the way civil lawsuits (though I might start calling them frival lawsuits) are nowadays, the knee-jerk reactions by some is something a business like this has to consider. A parent could sue for the littles thing. That doesn't mean they'll win, but the whole process could be enough to put them under.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18778216 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:59:57 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777898 pog : This thread is long but I think I should also clarify some of my earlier posts, too.

A daycare operator... any business owner, really ...need not only consider the actual harm that (in this case) posting pictures might cause to the subjects. It's not just danger from pedophiles, either... more often, probably most of the time, the danger comes from estranged spouses, non-custodial parents, etc.

My point, though, is that the truth of the danger is not the whole story. There's also the harm to the business that will come from knee-jerk anti-perv save-the-children zealots. Negative PR can easily wreck a business. This is a compelling reason for a daycare operator to play it safe, regardless of whether or not that operator believes the danger to be real or present.
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My Site]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777898 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 19:06:45 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777834 aloneworld : I have plenty of pictures of my wife's kids in my gallery and on my wife's flikr.

There's 5 pages of answers for this topic and unfortunately I think that on first one was the most relevant.

Ask the parents to sign a consent form and don't put any name.
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My photo gallery -- My photo blog]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777834 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:56:19 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777769 jvmorris : Well said.

I wasn't trying to create any dissonance (quite the contrary, in fact), I just suspected that there was one of those famous 'failures to communicate' in the emerging dialog. That's why I made that post.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Thank you.
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777769 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 18:46:37 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777392 Kiwi : I was going to leave this alone, but wanted to clarify my comment had nothing to do with what happened on 9/11 and jvmorris See Profile has pretty well summed up how I feel about the media, it's exploitative and generally feeble, lacks scientific inquiry and relies heavily on myth, prejudice, deceit along with an alarmist mentality. Right along with that the facts are hardly ever accurate, just a basis to the story that gets a twisted end result. "Get the story first and then deal with the fallout, we can cover the lies later".

I won't let the media or knee jerking determine what I'll believe. To a large extent the media has served no useful purpose to ending those sick pedophiles, if anything it has garnered an interest where one may not have been before for those sick people, the media glorify the absolute worst in humanity.

It was good enough for past generations of parents to be proud of their kids, so why stop now. I realize I took a turn in the road from the rest of the thread, but someone had to inject some reason.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18777392 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:39:01 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776233 jvmorris :
said by pog See Profile :

. . . Who's worse, though... the viewer getting off on this material or the producers for airing it?
Oh, I'd vote for the producers in a flash (as it were). They're only in it for the money generated from advertising revenues. Any day now, I suspect you'll find an ad on that program featuring "Victoria's Secrets Collection for Children" as a major sponsor.

Ahem, minor point of information: The only reason I even know about this program was when I was channel-surfing on my cable one night (purely out of boredom, of course) and happened to run across it. It must have taken me a half hour this morning to recollect what and where it was. And, no, guys, I've never seen a complete episode. Ten minutes was quite enough, thank you.

I'm sure that Dateline would vigorously defend their decision to air this series because it's 'in the public interest'. But, let's be serious guys, if they wanted to address this subject from a public interest (informing the citizenry and all that) would it really be presented like this?
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776233 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:48:32 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776143 pog :
said by jvmorris See Profile :

... "voyeuristic exploitation of perversion" ...
Sadly, I have to agree with you. That show is not popular because of any noble intentions it has... as you say, it titillates, so it sells. Not much different from anything else in the sex industry: strip clubs, prostitution, porn videos, etc. Well, one difference... they're not upfront with their motives. Even with the law enforcement angle in the show, I have to wonder if they are perhaps fanning the flames a bit, too... titillating a latent pedo into action.

Voyeurism is not unique to our culture or time but I think it's become blatantly mainstream recently. Anything graphic seems to draw viewers like flies... it's not TV's fault entirely, though. They're merely pandering to what audiences say they want... eg, the endless popularity of extreme/bizarre/perverted video clips online. It's not the internet's fault either... before that, there were wildly popular videos like "faces of death", etc.

Who's worse, though... the viewer getting off on this material or the producers for airing it?
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My Site]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18776143 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 14:35:10 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18775031 ccallana :
said by Dynevor See Profile :

What is fwiw? :uhh:

For What It's Worth.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18775031 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:39:13 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774790 Dynevor :
said by jvmorris See Profile :

I wonder if Kiwi (and possibly DreamWraith?) might not be referring rather indirectly to MSNBC Dateline's "To Catch a Predator" series?

I think NBC's background research was done watching "Law and Order". :D
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774790 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:00:05 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774757 Dynevor :
said by DreamWraith See Profile :

Not everyone was alive to experience that, fwiw.
But most people did study history in school and college.

What is fwiw? :uhh:
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774757 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:54:31 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774570 jvmorris : I wonder if Kiwi (and possibly DreamWraith?) might not be referring rather indirectly to MSNBC Dateline's "To Catch a Predator" series?

I tend to characterize that kind of reporting as "voyeuristic exploitation of perversion", so if that's colored their views I could understand why. I suppose that after 50 minutes of titillating revelations of pervs being caught, MSNBC probably provides an obligatory five minute mini-essay entitled "What you can do to protect your children online". Whether that little essay tells parents anything practical or whether it primarily just spreads FUD, I've no idea. At any rate, I'm sure the program is good to go for the remainder of this year.

Incidentally, something similar did happen after 9/11; it's just that I'd call that "voyeuristic exploitation of terrorism".
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774570 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 10:13:38 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774486 DreamWraith :
said by Dynevor See Profile :

Holy crap man, you think 9/11 was media frenzy. You are all heart. :mad:

[EDIT]I would be interested in hearing your views on photojournalism of the Vietnam war. Not
Not everyone was alive to experience that, fwiw.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774486 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 09:56:10 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774098 Dynevor :
said by Kiwi See Profile :

.....This topic reminds me of the after math media frenzy of 9/11.....
Holy crap man, you think 9/11 was media frenzy. You are all heart. :mad:

[EDIT]I would be interested in hearing your views on photojournalism of the Vietnam war. Not]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774098 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:35:24 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774077 Dynevor :
said by DreamWraith See Profile :

said by Dynevor See Profile :

[I don't "hermitize" myself, nor do I live in fear. I do have a big "stick" that I have used on a predator that I caught after he had exposed himself, via an Internet kids messaging center, to one of my young daughters. The messaging center (run by a church) was shut down.

>

But by all means, take it as a personally directed statement if you so choose

...Does that generally clear things up?.

Generally speaking:

....uh..huh?

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."(JFK)
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18774077 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 08:30:37 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18773606 DreamWraith :
said by Dynevor See Profile :

[I don't "hermitize" myself, nor do I live in fear. I do have a big "stick" that I have used on a predator that I caught after he had exposed himself, via an Internet kids messaging center, to one of my young daughters. The messaging center (run by a church) was shut down.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."(JFK)

I don't beleive i directed my post at any one person. But by all means, take it as a personally directed statement if you so choose.

I was making a general statement to the general participation of the thread as a response to a general theme posted in general by some posters. I generally will post a reply directly to an individual if my reply is generally intended to be directed at them.

Does that generally clear things up?

I generally feel fine now.:)

said by Kiwi See Profile :

This topic reminds me of the after math media frenzy of 9/11.
No kidding.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18773606 Mon, 30 Jul 2007 03:31:36 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18766197 Kiwi : This has all been done, stated before. I have four kids, three girls and might I add they are very pretty bias excluded ;)

I'm fairly careful and realize there are a bunch of pedophiles out there, yuk. I'll blame Kennedy for closing Psychiatric hospitals so those fools can breed into what we have today.

I hate the idea of any Pedophile getting loose, but tend to *Gasp* at the knee jerks going on today. Reminds me of many other things in life in America ~Culturally suppressed and indignant of nudity and flows to the other extreme all in the same breath (I can't relate to hard porn). That stated, any TV show, pictorial can be captured, beach scenes and water fountains included no matter the age or even gender; National Geographic no less and that's without the movie industry contribution, on line Bit Torrents ET AL.

I'll post shots of my kids, when I feel like it and they will be tasteful clothed shots or in a bikini (JUST like the beach) they are far too old for what is described below; I'm a parent and won't have it any other way. I won't stop a decent shot getting publicity anymore than I'll curb the concept of the Miss America pageant arena. It's life folks, my kids are not going to be held prisoner by the Pedophile concept, they will continue on as has the rest of previous generations of parents proud of their kids.

In the past I remember a woman who posted her young daughter on a photo site, she was perhaps 6 years old, she was topless and got a lot of grief over the shot. The shot was tasteful and photogenic, at play in a fountain with a butterfly -Could not see a single thing wrong with the shot....Can't say the same for the extreme attitudes she faced though. One would have thought a male nipple would impact as much as a boy of the same age or older.

This topic reminds me of the after math media frenzy of 9/11.

Day Care shot why not, providing the concept and theme is in keeping with the intent.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18766197 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 18:31:33 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18765940 Dynevor :
said by DreamWraith See Profile :

....It is quite another to hermitize yourself, and everything that you do because of fear.
I don't "hermitize" myself, nor do I live in fear. I do have a big "stick" that I have used on a predator that I caught after he had exposed himself, via an Internet kids messaging center, to one of my young daughters. The messaging center (run by a church) was shut down.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."(JFK)

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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18765940 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:40:45 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18765855 DreamWraith : That is all I am getting at. I agree that we can take reasonable steps to protect ourselves. My issue is with the all too common crossing of the grey fuzzy line.

The one between sane reasonable steps to protection, and insane overreactive steps.

It is one thing to use common sense and not post pictures with "LOL KID LIVS HERE".

It is quite another to hermitize yourself, and everything that you do because of fear.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18765855 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:22:00 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764975 Dynevor : From Wikipedia:

...The extent to which pedophilia occurs is not known with any certainty. Some studies have concluded that at least a quarter of all adult men may have some feelings of sexual arousal in connection with children. One study found that professionals failed to report approximately 40% of the child sexual abuse cases they encountered...'

As earlier stated by another member, while the Internet doesn't create pedophiles, it certainly can provide access to their "feelings".

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."(JFK)
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764975 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 14:11:09 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764678 jvmorris : And, especially in this case, I'd bloody well log all accesses to the website!
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764678 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:11:09 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764667 Kalford : Some have commented about how not having a gallery will do nothing to stop pedophiles. And that just may be true. . . .but then again it's also true that locking our doors at night won't really do a thing to stop thieves. But I am pretty sure almost everybody in this day and age will still do that.

We can't allow ourselves to be held hostage by the monsters that pollute our society, but we can take reasonable steps to protect ourselves and more importantly protect those that are both the most vulnerable and the precious to us - our children.

This would be one such case where such reasonable steps can and should be taken.

Thus as others have mentioned, I too think that creating a gallery of the kids should be fine with proper safety concerns being addressed.

Were it my kids attending the daycare or was it me that was putting it together I would look at implementing the following:

Egeezer's suggestion of not allowing robots to crawl the site would be a definite must.

Individual user names and passwords for each parent/family where there is a minimum level of complexity required for passwords.

All new accounts must be manually approved by administrator of the gallery and include proper verification to confirm that people asking for accounts are indeed who they say they are.

Sign-off forms by the parents granting permission for posting their photos in the gallery. Also an separate model release form for if/when you will be using photos of their kids to promote the daycare either on the main portion of the site or in other forms of marketing.

No full names of kids on captions and also make sure not to keep any of full names within the file name(s) or within any information contained within the files themselves. (nor any combination of the above that would provide full names of the children)

I wouldn't worry about make it an unpublished link. Having a username /password access should make it sufficient.

:-)
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Through My Eyes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764667 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:08:32 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764648 AnonProxy : Short answer: NO

Long answer: No, especially if there is an indexing of where the photo or child exists. If the photo exists by itself, with no real information about the child, where they are, where they live or in this case go to school...maybe not so much a problem. But once you tie a picture to an event or static place that is frequented by the child...that is a problem I think.

Example of OK:
Picture of a child at a famous place, with no information about where they live.

Example of NOT OK:
Picture of a child at a famous place, posted on the school website. It ties and image of a child directly to a school.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764648 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:02:44 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764630 jvmorris :
said by DreamWraith See Profile :

I think the point that people are glossing over here, is that a pedophile is going to get his fix, one way or another.
That's quite true. However, I wouldn't want to find myself facilitating any incident.
. . . People act as if the internet creates or somehow further promotes or makes pedophilia easier, and I think that makes it all lose focus.
Not quite sure I follow your logic above. I think it would be a stretch to maintain that the internet creates pedophilia, but it's certainly arguable whether it promotes it (unintentionally, of course) and I don't think there's any real debate at all that it makes it easier for some who might otherwise only remain closet perverts, to coin a phrase. Nor do I quite understand how talking about this makes us "lose focus" on the basic issue. Quite the contrary, I would maintain that ignoring the impact of the internet on the problem of pedophilia simply makes this plague worse.

Also, if I replace the word "pedophilia" in your assertion with the word "terrorism", would you still be so willing to make this statement? Yet, law enforcement agencies (throughout the world) are now devoting (if not more correctly diverting) scarce resources to addressing both of these modern-day plagues simply because of how the internet can be exploited to facilitate them.

Would you deny that the internet has indisputably enhanced legal commerce? If not, why would you maintain that it has not similarly enhanced illegal commerce. I really wouldn't understand such a position. Like so many other technologies, there is nothing inherently good or evil about the internet. It can be used for either purpose and -- just like all the technologies that proceeded it -- we have to do what we can to enhance the good and minimize the bad.

Prior to the mass adoption of the automobile, I don't think speeding was a big problem in most parts of the world. Law enforcement didn't have to devote a significant portion of its resources to apprehending drivers going too fast for conditions and safety and there likely wasn't the current danger of death or serious injury to the general populace. Perhaps it's a simple misconception on my part, but I have trouble envisioning the Texas Rangers devoting a substantial portion of their resources to tracking down the Lone Buckaroo as he gallops across the vast reaches of Texas, yet today, a considerable amount of the resources of State Police (throughout the US) are devoted to just that. And, "the need for speed" has always existed. The automobile simply made it faster, easier, and -- lest we forget -- more dangerous.
We shouldn't be running around scared and hiding because there are pedophiles out there. There always have been, and there always will be, whether you post pictures or not.
Well, I must say I've seen little of 'scared and hiding'. I've simply seen a bit more prudence on what we might do. English publicans didn't worry too much about the village drunk wreaking mayhem after leaving the pub (especially without being subsequently apprehended) when most came on foot and a few on horseback. If you don't think they're not a bit more circumspect these days when they're dishing out the pints, you're kidding yourself.
And the really insane ones aren't ever going to bother trying to "search for a victim" online. They will just go sit outside a school or daycare. It is much easier for them that way.
Oh, I definitely disagree with that characterization. (Did you just add this sentence?)
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764630 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 12:57:00 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764347 Chinabound : I used to post my daughter's picture here, often. I stopped doing so because a forum member here didn't appreciate my finding photoshop mistakes on a few of his pictures, and made a rather inappropriate leading comment under one of her pictures.

Given the possibilities after that incident, I haven't posted her picture here. And this was the only place I ever trusted to do so. What a shame.
I only send them on to friends and family in emails. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764347 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:54:34 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764215 DreamWraith : I think the point that people are glossing over here, is that a pedophile is going to get his fix, one way or another.

If the internet never existed, there would still be pedophiles everywhere. They would simply sit on park benches "reading" their newspapers. Or stand outside a gymnasium looking "at the boats in dock outside".

People act as if the internet creates or somehow further promotes or makes pedophilia easier, and I think that makes it all lose focus.

We shouldn't be running around scared and hiding because there are pedophiles out there. There always have been, and there always will be, whether you post pictures or not.

And the really insane ones aren't ever going to bother trying to "search for a victim" online. They will just go sit outside a school or daycare. It is much easier for them that way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18764215 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 11:30:32 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18763062 sumdumgai : my policy is to not post any pictures of anyone except myself. I would NEVER post children.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18763062 Sat, 28 Jul 2007 03:16:01 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18759161 major marco :
said by Jason Levine See Profile :

I happen to think that there's nothing wrong with doing this, but then again I'm the webmaster that would build the online gallery, possibly the photographer that would take the photos, and a parent of a child that would appear on the site, so I might be biased. So I was wondering what everyone here thought of this. Would you allow a photograph of your child to appear online like this?
As long as crucial information is left out, I don't see a problem. People are going to imagine all sorts of things about any image that may cross their retinas online and there isn't a thing you can do about that. But you can, however, just obscure the data so that someone doesn't get it in his head to show up at the school location and start looking for a specific child, for example. It's just like any other personal image you upload to the Net. Take the appropriate precautions to ensure that person cannot be found/easily identified. Images of children don't belong in any special group, IMO.
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The Toll

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18759161 Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:44:04 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18753764 Dynevor : A bit OT, but sound advice, IMHO.

Pay Attention to Online Photos: Know the type of photos your child is posting online. It is wisest to encourage your child not to post any photos online. Children use various forms of technology to post information and photos online, such as videos and web cams. Photos from camera phones can also be uploaded. Parents and guardians should be aware of the imagery their children post on the Web--these images may pose a risk to their children, exposing them to online predators and people they don't know. Even innocent photos can attract a predator. Check with your child's school to see if students' projects, artwork, or photos are being put on school websites. Schools need to be reminded of the risk and encouraged to allow access to student activities posted on the school's website by password only or posted on the school's Intranet. Webcams should only be used under close parental supervision and sent only to trusted friends and family.
Even innocent pictures of school activity on a school Web site have attracted the attention of one predator who became obsessed and kidnapped a child from his school (Burkey, Martin. "Martin Says Child Exploitation is 'Epidemic'." The Decatur Daily News 23 May 2006).

Cited from:

»www.enough.org/inside.php?tag=rulesntools
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18753764 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:58:14 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751838 jvmorris : Once upon a time, yes, I would have done this without even thinking about it.

Today, I would think twice about it and only with the parents' (signed) permissions. And, even then, I would be extremely circumspect about including any personally identifying information or specifying where the shot was taken. I'm not at all sure that the resulting problems are any worse than they might have been 30 or 40 years ago; we just talk about it more. Well, actually, I suspect the possibility of exploitation are now much worse than they were then.

Furthermore, the thread title addresses a somewhat different issue than your final question. (Not to mention that all of my kids are now adults.)

For years, I've taken photos of middle and high school kids at sporting events, but about five years ago I decided that I'd only publish a photo (of even these kids) with parental permission. Indeed, most recently, I've gotten to the point that I won't even take such photos without parents' permission.

Yes, it's a sad state of affairs, but I think I should be sensitive to the world we live in today.
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Regards,
Joseph V. Morris]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751838 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:56:37 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751693 javaMan :
said by leXicon5 See Profile :

My wife wanted to put up a page with her classrooms daily activities since parents miss so much of what their child does during the day, she thought it would be a nice way for them to see if not experience. No names, just action shots. The access would have been restricted to parents that had the password. The parents that wanted to participate would have received the URL and password in separate communications. No addresses or anything that would give away the location of the school.

The school nixed the idea, even though the site would have been password protected and no names used. They did not want the liability.
This is the bottom line really. If the administrators don't think it's a good idea, no matter how reasonable or well thought out an idea is, it isn't going to happen. And that seems to be the case here.
I can understand a site that is wide open for anybody to go to isn't what I'd like and I can see why others would be opposed. People have yet to grasp that society has changed. There is no more and can never be a "can't happen to me or here" attitude. Children should be protected by all means necessary from exploitation. You cant protect them 24/7 but there is no reason to put them on display without some restrictions/passwords either because you just have no idea what some people will do...
While I don't disagree with your point of view, I don't think we need to let fear rule us either. What is important when incorporating photos like these is the context in which they are taken and the context in which they are used. For example, this website incorporates photos of minors. Now if a pedophile can find some satisfaction from them, well, there is certainly nothing anyone can do about it other than, as some suggest, don't use any at all. But I think it should be evident there in nothing inappropriate or suggestive about them that might cause any concern about using them. The administrators agreed and so did the parents.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751693 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:34:50 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751476 javaMan :
said by Jason Levine See Profile :

When I started reading the replies promoting a password protected gallery, I thought that it would be a good idea. Then I started thinking. To keep it simple to manage, there would need to be one password to get in. (We're not going to assign each parent their own username/password.) Once one password is issued, it's likely to be shared with grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.

Even if it's not shared too much, it's likely to be cracked because I'm sure they'll pick an easy to remember password.

. . .
I don't see that as an issue. It doesn't matter if it is going to be shared with grandma, it's not likely she is going to pass it around. The purpose of the username/password is to make it harder for the casual surfer to have easy access. There is nothing completely foolproof, what you want to do is lower the probability of the occasional passerby having access who shouldn't.

And I'm not sure why some think there is a issue with parents who are not getting along or in witness protection or whatever. A release needs to be signed first and I'm sure anyone who fits in one of these categories will not want to sign it if they feel is might bring unwanted attention to them.
--
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness. . . Isa. 5:20]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751476 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:00:41 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751157 EGeezer : This is an excellent discussion. It's a shame that we have to consider predators and other risks, but an unfortunate fact.

The safety and well being of the kids is first, of course. But the board should also exercise due diligence by consulting with their liability insurer(s) and legal counsel. I'm sure any associations the center belongs to would also provide "best practices" and maybe even web site templates.

Should they decide to provide a gallery, it should be private and secured by passwords with required complexity and possibly even password change rules. The secured section name would be something like "member portal" and not "gallery" "kid pictures", "member information" or anything that would identify the content. A three strikes user ID lock for bad passwords would be a good thing. Reset through the user providing the user ID, then a reset link sent through the user's registered email would suffice.

Finally, don't allow robots to crawl the site. robots.txt is a good thing. Google may not be a webmaster's friend.

As for predators hacking the protected areas, I don't see it as a real issue. A predator who would go to the trouble of trying to hack passwords or IDs would be quite noisy. Also, there are too many unsupervised MySpace kids out there for them to waste time trying to hack a daycare member site.
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Sive enim ad sapientiam perveniri potest, non paranda nobis solum ea, sed fruenda etiam est]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18751157 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:16:53 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18749905 Sid : My wife is a director of a childcare. She said there is no way they would allow the kids pictures to be publicly viewed on a website.

Our teen daughter on the other hand has created her own website where she posts photos of her and her friends just goofy stuff. I do allow her the ability to express herself on her site but I do monitor it. I make sure she doesnt reveal personal things such as names and addresses. I have her keep her domain registered as private. Because its her own domain and not a page posted on a popular site like myspace, its difficult to find unless you happen to know the exact url.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18749905 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:43:34 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18749823 leXicon5 : My wife wanted to put up a page with her classrooms daily activities since parents miss so much of what their child does during the day, she thought it would be a nice way for them to see if not experience. No names, just action shots. The access would have been restricted to parents that had the password. The parents that wanted to participate would have received the URL and password in separate communications. No addresses or anything that would give away the location of the school.

The school nixed the idea, even though the site would have been password protected and no names used. They did not want the liability.

I can understand a site that is wide open for anybody to go to isn't what I'd like and I can see why others would be opposed. People have yet to grasp that society has changed. There is no more and can never be a "can't happen to me or here" attitude. Children should be protected by all means necessary from exploitation. You cant protect them 24/7 but there is no reason to put them on display without some restrictions/passwords either because you just have no idea what some people will do...
--
Honor the memory of the troops that served selflessly and without selfishness.
You have the freedoms today because of what they did yesterday.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18749823 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:20:58 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18748881 Wayne GphFX : The sad facts of life is any image of a child is considered porn to a pedophile. No matter where it was found that was the point I tried but failed to bring out. The person in the article was downloading from the web so who knows what other websites were used.
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»www.flickr.com/photos/waynegphfx/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18748881 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:49:33 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18748787 SND2005 : I really don't see what the fuss is about. The kids are not in a bath tub or in suggestive type shots...I could care less so long as I was ASKED prior to the shots being posted. I have 2 kids in a daycare who have not only been posted online but have also been on television a couple times. Remember, a pedo can easily sit around a playground or beach/pool and snap away and take plenty of shots MANY people wouldn't be happy with.

Personally, I'm not going to live my life running around with some pseudo helmet on, nor should my kids IMO.

Let's be realistic however. Your most likely not submitting the web site to google nor are you really going to get more than say...100-500 visitors at most, the threat is really non existent in my view.

Get permission and make a darn good site!
-dan]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18748787 Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:18:55 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18747453 Jason Levine :
said by KAD Imaging See Profile :

I think that was back at wierdo See Profile (misspelled btw) who stated in his first post that everyone is overreacting because the threats to children have decreased. :uhh: Wayne's and my links prove otherwise. :huh:
Your link was to a grandmother who was questioned by police and charged based on a photo development place's employee calling the cops over a nude grandkid photo. The Internet wasn't even involved until the story was posted online.

Wayne's specifically mentioned that the guy downloaded child porn. Child porn is different than your usual "kid at play" photo.

I would say that the first item could easily have been an overreaction and the second likely didn't involve trolling family photo sites for photos of kids.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18747453 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:13:58 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18747401 yock : The topic at hand deals with candid photographs of children possibly being used by predators to select targets for abuse. The linked news article deals with an individual who sought out pornographic images of children.

I don't think the two are related.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18747401 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 21:06:28 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18747199 wierdo :
said by KAD Imaging See Profile :

I think that was back at wierdo See Profile (misspelled btw) who stated in his first post that everyone is overreacting because the threats to children have decreased. :uhh: Wayne's and my links prove otherwise. :huh:
Yes, my nick is misspelled. Deliberately. Thanks for your concern. :)

Your news articles are interesting, but prove nothing. Check real crime statistics and you'll find that I'm correct. Also, Wayne GphFX's article specifically states that the material was downloaded from the Internet, including the items on the camera, not fresh meat, as it were.

That guy didn't abuse any children, he looked at child porn. Still disgusting, but completely different. :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18747199 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:37:03 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18746816 KAD Imaging :
said by wierdo See Profile :

said by Wayne GphFX See Profile :

Picked from today's news
»www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a···07250493
Maybe I'm just dense, but what does that have to do with the topic at hand?
I think that was back at wierdo See Profile (misspelled btw) who stated in his first post that everyone is overreacting because the threats to children have decreased. :uhh: Wayne's and my links prove otherwise. :huh:
--
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said by Wayne GphFX See Profile :

Picked from today's news
»www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a···07250493
Maybe I'm just dense, but what does that have to do with the topic at hand?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18746345 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:19:48 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18745832 Wayne GphFX : Picked from today's news
»www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a···07250493
--
»www.flickr.com/photos/waynegphfx/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18745832 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:06:12 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18745185 simplykristi : If you are going to do this, the parents must sign a release. We had to sign a release where I used to work to have photos of us. I worked for a life insurance company.

I have a private gallery of family photos at SmugMug. I've been using it for since January 1, 2006. No one knows where the photos are except me and those with whom I share the link.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18745185 Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:42:27 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18739285 CatSnak :
said by yock See Profile :

Back on topic. Does it occur to anyone else but be that sheltering children might be having a negative effect on them? Increased incidences of violence at the hands of minors. Increased incidences of mental illness among minors, along with more and more new diagnosis. Our kids are getting released into the real world and aren't coping with it well at all, and I see that as a direct correlation to the last two decades of parents pulling the wool over their eyes.

The best thing you can do for your kids is to be there, right there beside them. Help them experience both the great and terrible things this world will do to them and they'll grow up to take care of themselves. This notion of hiding a photographic representation of them from any and all curious eyes only perpetuates the mentality that children are somehow too fragile to co-exist with us. It's a farce, and it's weakening our society.
Sadly this is too true. My girlfriend and I just had a discussion while on a mini-vacation up north this last weekend on how kids aren't allowed to be kids anymore. I look back at all the things my brother and I used to do and compare it to what kids are doing these days and it saddens me at the loss of freedom kids these days have to deal with. It wasn't all that long ago when kids could safely walk to the corner market or to the park without their parents and no one worried about it. It's no wonder kids these days seem to be more violent, misguided or what ever other term you want to use for the lack of social skills. Too many no longer get the chance to really explore the world until they're thrust into it with little to no knowledge of how it really works.
--
Founding member, 2002-2003, 2005-2006 Director of Communications, 2004-2005 Secretary for the Crunchenstein Project]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18739285 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:14:15 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18737901 wierdo :
said by KAD Imaging See Profile :

See this post: »Re: How a Photo Can Ruin Your Life and view the Department of Justice site for clarification on that. :huh:
Yes, if you show them naked or in bathing suits in suggestive poses and post those pictures on the Internet, some moronic police officer or prosecutor may give you shit. I presumed we were talking about fully clothed shots of kids playing on a playground or in a room at the day care.

That's got nothing to do with what I posted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18737901 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 15:10:54 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736939 yock : You say naive, I say objective. Thankfully, it's entirely up to the individual to make their decision.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736939 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:41:18 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736581 Dynevor :
said by yock See Profile :

Oh, I think we're all intelligent enough here to identify opinion without prefacing it with four silly letters. Besides, no one said I was being humble.

Argumentative and naive. Besides IMHO is in my honest opinion, IMO. ;)?
--

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736581 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:41:56 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736504 yock : Oh, I think we're all intelligent enough here to identify opinion without prefacing it with four silly letters. Besides, no one said I was being humble.

Back on topic. Does it occur to anyone else but be that sheltering children might be having a negative effect on them? Increased incidences of violence at the hands of minors. Increased incidences of mental illness among minors, along with more and more new diagnosis. Our kids are getting released into the real world and aren't coping with it well at all, and I see that as a direct correlation to the last two decades of parents pulling the wool over their eyes.

The best thing you can do for your kids is to be there, right there beside them. Help them experience both the great and terrible things this world will do to them and they'll grow up to take care of themselves. This notion of hiding a photographic representation of them from any and all curious eyes only perpetuates the mentality that children are somehow too fragile to co-exist with us. It's a farce, and it's weakening our society.
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736504 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:29:16 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736444 Dynevor :
said by yock See Profile :

I understand the concept of mitigating risk, but nothing discussed thus far is even remotely convincing that barring a child's photo from the Internet will protect them in some meaningful way.
Argumentative. I could accept that if you preface it with a IMHO.
--

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736444 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:19:57 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736422 yock : All of those, save one, have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Considering them in a discussion about online photo galleries is just FUD.
said by Dynevor See Profile :

Internet predators
Sure, child predators use the internet now. Is the answer really to not post a child's picture online? Child predators also observe public parks for targets. Should we stop taking children to the park? Predators stakeout schools, are those going to be off limits?

I understand the concept of mitigating risk, but nothing discussed thus far is even remotely convincing that barring a child's photo from the Internet will protect them in some meaningful way.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736422 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:17:09 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736396 Dynevor :
said by Zupper See Profile :

FWIW, I've read this topic and can only think, "Wow" how sad it is that we have become a culture of worst case scenario.
Unfortunately, in many cases, "worst case scenario" is becoming common place...WTC, Internet predators, Iraq war, etc, etc. We can no longer write these things off as "it will never happen to me". :(

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."(JFK)
--

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736396 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:12:16 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736251 Zupper : FWIW, I've read this topic and can only think, "Wow" how sad it is that we have become a culture of worst case scenario. I agree with Yock, and think he said it best.

In this case, I think generic images of groups of kids having fun is a great thing to share, and good advertising for youth oriented places. Who wouldn't want to take their kids to the place (school, daycare, park, museum) where they see other kids having fun? And really, who doesn't want to see pictures of kids having fun?

Yes, I am a parent of young children. I do not think this topic has a definitive NO or even Yes answer. There is always context to consider. But worrying about "the perv with photoshop" is far down my list.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18736251 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:47:46 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735765 yock : I think you're missing my point. Those children are already on public display every time they play outside. How is this so much more acceptable than posting their picture?
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735765 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:33:22 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735753 Jason Levine :
said by NewLife See Profile :

Not only could you have a pic gallery there but lots of other information pertaining to the center.
That was actually one of the things that got this idea moving from the perpetual planning stages to an actual discussion. We recently had a power outage that affected much of the city of Troy (where the daycare is located). Many parents called to see if the center still had power. The director decided that we should have a place to post announcements of this kind along with other center information.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735753 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:30:48 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735727 Jason Levine :
said by yock See Profile :

Presumably, this day care has a playground facility where children play outside within a chain-link fence.
The younger kids play within a chain-link fence playground on the premises. The older kids walk to a nearby public park (again behind a chain link fence, but with a constantly open gate) at predictable hours of the day. This park also features a sprinkler that the kids can play in during warm days. (Of course, there's no question that the "sprinkler shots" wouldn't make it online.)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735727 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:27:22 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735627 NewLife : Could create a special section on the site just for parents. This area would be password protected and you would get your username and password when your child enrolled. Not only could you have a pic gallery there but lots of other information pertaining to the center.
--
With hurricanes,tornados,fires out of control,mud slides,flooding,severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another,and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks,are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735627 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:03:12 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735625 yock : I think that at some point in this country we got the idea that anything which happened to a child was someone's fault. Someone was to blame for not protecting them sufficiently. As a result, we start sequestering children more and more from society in an effort to protect them from all of the bad things that might occur.

Presumably, this day care has a playground facility where children play outside within a chain-link fence. Presumably also these children arrive and depart at nearly the same time everyday and are transferred to and from the building by one of his or her parents. Presumably also these children are in custodian of a caretaker who, while might him or herself be safe, has unknown associates that may or may not present a danger to those children. Presumably this day care is well advertised as such and isn't a nondescript, top secret location whose purpose is hidden from all.

Guys, girls, these are just photographs. They serve the very legitimate purpose of documenting a child's daily activities for the enjoyment of the parents. That they may be used for ill will is no different than all of the other opportunities sick people have to exploit children. Treating them like they serve as a brunch menu for pedophiles is an exaggeration of the danger and I think demonstrates the ostrich method of parenting (hiding by sticking one's own head in the sand).

Unless you're an utterly and willfully neglectful parent, chances are you're doing all that you can to protect your children. This little bit of exposure doesn't even begin to compare with the risk involved with even playing in a park, walking down the street, riding a bike, or any number of other activities where there is real risk of abduction. I know this won't convince any of you, but I felt the need to say it.
--
Laughter is the closest distance between two people. --Victor Borge
"The opposite of war isn't peace, it's creation."]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735625 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 09:02:33 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735411 Jason Levine :
said by 05241201 See Profile :

I wouldn't

btw, threads like this are pointless. Why does it matter what other people do, it obviously isn't going to affect the decision of what you do.
I don't think it's pointless. It actually will affect what I do. I'm reading each of the comments and taking them in. I might not be agreeing with all of the arguments against the daycare gallery idea (I think it's pretty clear that I'm personally for it), but most people are making very good points. Even if we go forward with the gallery, this discussion will change how I implement it.

For example, after sleeping on the "password protected gallery" idea, I'm actually liking it again. (Call me a flip-flopper! ;-) ) We could still select a few photos for marketing purposes that would go on the general website ("this is what your kid could do here" shots) while putting the bulk of them in an area known only to and accessible only to parents.

The daycare itself has locks on the doors that require you to push a certain key combination. It's not perfect. The code is pretty short and parents could easily pass it on to someone else. Parents could also let someone in thinking that the other person is a parent. Still, the code reduces the chance that some pervert (or other random creep) can just walk into the daycare.

The "hidden" gallery and password would serve the same purpose. It wouldn't be a 100% secure solution, but it would provide a "speed bump" against undesirables viewing the photos.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735411 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 08:11:57 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735382 KAD Imaging :
said by ff1324 See Profile :

Perhaps you could use business cards and write a password for each person to type in so they could access the gallery. That would also allow you to see statistically how much the gallery is used. Or make the password the kids full name with no spaces and you could generate the password list off of the daycare's attendance sheets.
Just had another thought...Flickr seems to have pretty good control over it's groups so you could setup a private group and then have the parents register with the group. It allows approvals so you could validate everyone that got access?
--
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I understand where the attorney was coming from by trying to protect the district, but I think it was an overreaction to think that a random picture of kids on a fire truck, with no names, and no way of locating said kids would be a liability. Aggravating and disappointing, but understandable.

Perhaps you could use business cards and write a password for each person to type in so they could access the gallery. That would also allow you to see statistically how much the gallery is used. Or make the password the kids full name with no spaces and you could generate the password list off of the daycare's attendance sheets.
--
What do you want to do to the world, Ronald?
Burn it all.
See you next year, Ronald.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735360 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:55:15 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735271 Splitpair : As prevously posted the answer is simply NO.

Wayne]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735271 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:11:57 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18735242 KAD Imaging :
said by wierdo See Profile :

I just want to say that it amazes me how reactionary people have gotten in recent years regarding pictures of children, despite the actual incidence of sexual abuse declining for quite some time now. The news media and politicians are screaming about it more loudly than ever, though, for ratings and votes, respectively.

That said, I don't have kids and don't photograph them, so all I've got are statistics.
See this post: »Re: How a Photo Can Ruin Your Life and view the Department of Justice site for clarification on that. :huh:

As for the issue at large, there are ways to deal with it in I think, an appropriate manner. You can use a wide aperture to diffuse the children in bokeh. Shoot them from behind so their faces are shown. Or even shoot them with heavy back lighting to safely silhouette them into obscureness. Just a few ideas.

This way you can show them engaged in activities without ever showing who they are...
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On the wider question, personally speaking:

I have some photos of children posted in my Flickr account. All of them fully clothed, etc., and with the explicit written permission of the parents, down to which photographs could, or could not be posted. (No one ever actually said yes to one but not another - they've always looked at them and given a blanket yes or no). I always ask the parents of the children appearing in the photos, and always abide completely by their wishes.

Our local photo club's theme two months ago was children and my brother in law, who had turned me down the first time I asked him about posting photos of his twins (and he said that decision was permanent, and I utterly respect that), was surprised I asked permission to enter a photo of one of his girls since it was a print competition. It never occurred to me *not* to ask.
--
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- John Lydon, last Sex Pistols show]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734789 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:06:41 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734523 FAQFixer : I wouldn't do it. Even though you don't give names associating them with the school gives an edge to a predator. They can see the child and say, "Hi Timmy, I work for ABC Preschool. Please come with me." It actually happened at a fairly prominent private school near me.

It's not worth it. I don't keep my kids covered up or in the dark, but I also don't give anyone an edge. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734523 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:42:47 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734509 DreamWraith : I think there is a slight issue that needs clarification here. You ask a very general question. "should pictures of kids be put online".

Now given the backstory you posted, it would *seem* you want to ask whether a daycare should post said pictures online.

If i take the question as written, i would say there is nothing inherently wrong with posting pictures of children online.

Moving on to the possible interpretation of your question, i would add qualifying statments that said pictures should not be easily tracable to locational information, and of course should be normal, fully clothed pics. Those bathtime pics are best kept at home, in the family.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734509 Tue, 24 Jul 2007 00:39:59 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734281 Nezmo : How about this: »www.photoreflect.com/scripts/prs···2&i=Y10D. I don't see it as any different.
--
My Gallery
Formerly Nezmo ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734281 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:53:19 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734248 pog : The issue is not just perverts. There are a lot of situations... perhaps more prevalent than scenarios involving unknown pedophiles ...where one parent has fled from the other, sometimes to other states, to escape physical and emotional abuse of all types... where the non-custodial parent is likely to interfere, cause harm, etc, etc. This is potential liability (fair or unfair, right or wrong) than no sane child care provider should be willing to take on... without at least considering all the implications and taking all the possible steps to minimize harm.

There is enough at stake, I think, that it would probably be a good idea for the director to talk to local experts... the licensing office, lawyers, detectives, protective services workers... and the insurance rep, most importantly. Would a gallery be considered reckless by the insurer? Would they deny coverage? Will rates go up?

Anyway, if advertising is the goal, there is one very easy approach to take. Take pictures all year long, as often as desired. Then, right before the kids graduate, review the best shots and ask the relevant parents for permission to post. This way, nobody can go online and know what kids are currently enrolled.

If offering a service for parents/relatives, why host the site? Why not offer the images via email on a regular basis? How about uploading to a printing service (like Costco's), use a password for every new folder, and just email the links out?
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My Site]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734248 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:47:59 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734217 05241201 : I wouldn't

btw, threads like this are pointless. Why does it matter what other people do, it obviously isn't going to affect the decision of what you do.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734217 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:42:04 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734117 ErthBndAngel : I used to work for the largest daycare corporation in the country and while there every parent was given a waiver for photos. It was really pretty basic with two sections I believe. One section allowed or declined permission to take a child's photo. The other section allowed or declined permission to use that child's photo for marketing purposes. If the site has a gallery of activities that take place at the school using these images shouldn't be a problem.

You wouldn't be the first to provide parents with a way to see what their kids are doing while away from them. I had a photowall in my classroom and I think that was the highlight of the parent's and kid's day when they came in to see updates. As a parent at the school you have the unique opportunity to discuss this with other parents. You're going to get some of the "hell no" people (waiver) but I think for the most part your going to find some hesitation but eagerness to make it work. Who knows you might find a fellow parent willing to help with website admin stuff enabling you to assign individual passwords.
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I am a contradiction in terms. Good luck.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18734117 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:27:08 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18733775 Jason Levine :
said by Jahntassa See Profile :

If it were a password protected gallery for the parents to visit, that'd be one thing. But a free-access gallery, no way.
When I started reading the replies promoting a password protected gallery, I thought that it would be a good idea. Then I started thinking. To keep it simple to manage, there would need to be one password to get in. (We're not going to assign each parent their own username/password.) Once one password is issued, it's likely to be shared with grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc.

Even if it's not shared too much, it's likely to be cracked because I'm sure they'll pick an easy to remember password.

said by Jahntassa See Profile :

If they want to have pictures of kids 'having fun' or whatnot to promote an image, I would steer more toward stock photographs that have nothing to do with the kids actually attending.
If parents sign off on letting their child's photos be used on the website, then why pay for a stock photo? Plus, we can constantly update the photos and show just what happens in the center instead of using a generic stock photo.

said by Jahntassa See Profile :

Mostly following along the lines of another post, about how the place would be easily found.
As it is, the place can be easily found. The center's address is right on the website. Besides, it's listed in the phone book. Any local pervert might use the phone book to locate daycares to "visit." Should we remove the listing just in case some pervert is reading the phone book?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18733775 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:41:58 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18733693 Rash : A different way to look at it would be this scenario what if one of the families is in some sort of protective program like witness protection?

I was involved in a program at work where we tutored elementary school children for a few hrs a week. (I am a firefighter) We wanted some photos of us and the kids at the end of the school year and started to take photos, the school freaked out and explained some of the kids can not have photos taken of them for various reasons.

It's just not "perverts" that you should be aware of.

BTW I see no problem if parents agree. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18733693 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 22:31:15 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732702 icex _ : No I would not put any childs photograph on any website. There are way to many perverts in this world, who knows what they would do, especialy in photoshop.
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Team Discovery]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732702 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:14:17 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732629 JRSlater8 : I would, but not without a parents permission.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732629 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 20:05:03 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732539 MIRV : Absolutely No.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732539 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:48:21 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732532 Jodokast96 : As a father, I too have been reluctant to post any photo's of any kids, especially my own. I may have (but not 100% sure) posted a few in here when asking for help with things, but I limit it as much as possible. As far as your specific question, I might be ok with large group shots showing certain activities or special events, but would a lot less open to portraits. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732532 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:46:47 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732476 exocet_cm :
said by jjoshua See Profile :

Simple. No.
I concur. Just 'cause.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732476 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:36:26 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732342 wierdo : I just want to say that it amazes me how reactionary people have gotten in recent years regarding pictures of children, despite the actual incidence of sexual abuse declining for quite some time now. The news media and politicians are screaming about it more loudly than ever, though, for ratings and votes, respectively.

That said, I don't have kids and don't photograph them, so all I've got are statistics.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732342 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:17:14 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732006 alninct : No! Not! Never! This aint the 50's no more.

Just my humble opinion.

Allan]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18732006 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:18:12 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731902 B52GUNR : In a word? No. In more words, hell no. Unfortunately given the world we live in the menu analogy rings far too true. A private gallery, maybe, but one that's publicly viewable? No way. Not to mention the releases involved, and the COPPA and Child Protection Restoration and Penalties Enhancement Acts it's more hassle than it's worth, in my opinion.

That said, I do have pictures of children in a wedding on my gallery, but there's no way to readily identify where they live and it is with the full blessing of the parents with a signed release on file.
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Some assembly required, your mileage may vary, no pixels were harmed in the writing of this post. Brain cells, though, are a different matter. You want fries with that?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731902 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:56:58 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731780 tigers : I post pics of my kids on a personal site, but I'll never post them on a more widely known site. I put one pic of my daughter of Flickr and forgot to set the photo to private and got a rather strange comment posted to the pic within minutes.

Also, I keep pretty tight tabs on the visitors to my website and If I see a bunch of ip's hitting that particular gallery that I don't know about, I'll put a password on it.

Maybe I'm overzealous, but while the internet is wonderful, it has also become an enabler for all sorts of wacko behavior.

And our kids daycare had us sign a release to have their photos taken, but not for the internet. These were just photos for the parent newsletter.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731780 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:37:00 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731718 ShootToThril : I think your opinion matters more than most pog, you have been posting enough pictures here that we feel your kids are family ;), i personally can't look beyond and add malice to a photo of a child, it's beyond me how a pervert would look at the same picture with a totally different point of view. If i was a parent with young children i wouldn't worry about posting a photos of my kids on-line but, i can see the point of view of parents who feel a need to protect their kids and wont post photos on-line.

Bottom line i feel that the parents signing a release and the dress code are very appropriate in this situation. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731718 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:25:37 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731638 Jahntassa : If it were a password protected gallery for the parents to visit, that'd be one thing. But a free-access gallery, no way. If they want to have pictures of kids 'having fun' or whatnot to promote an image, I would steer more toward stock photographs that have nothing to do with the kids actually attending.

Mostly following along the lines of another post, about how the place would be easily found.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731638 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 17:12:17 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731500 Nezmo : I've pondered this before because I often take photos of young kids in sport activities and I post them in password protected galleries. But I wonder how big a deal it is putting photos of kids on Websites (with permission of course) when a would be predator could simply sit in the parking lot or nearby road of said school and observe for themselves what kids are there... and even take photos for themselves. Just a thought.

Edit - let me qualify my statement above... I take photos at games etc where the parents have asked me to do so.
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My Gallery
Formerly Nezmo ;-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731500 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:54:15 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731396 jaykaykay : In short, for those who feel they want to sign on to something like this, let them make their own decisions. However, were I asked for a release, they wouldn't get one. Sure, I've posted images of children here, but that's not the same thing as a pre school that has a connected address, etc. I can't imagine a legit reason for doing it other than advertising for their pre school. I am sure there are enough people out there who would not mind having their children on line and maybe even be proud of it with the associated pre school, but no reason I can think of would make me do it.
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JKK:-)

Age is a very high price to pay for my maturity. If I can't stay young, I can at least stay immature!

»www.pbase.com/jaykaykay

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731396 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:41:39 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731253 HFB1217 : I also think it is a bad idea. I have noticed that sites that have school photos of students have them allowed to be accessed by parents only they are in a password protected album.

But like others have said and expressed what is the need for it? Advertising or just because someone wants to be cutting edge. I think not since any real purpose does not out weigh the potential dangers.
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****aka The WIZARD **** A Founding member Seti BBR Team Starfire****]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731253 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:21:33 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731135 jjoshua : Simple. No.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731135 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:06:58 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731108 Maccawolf : I was just thinking. I may be WAY off base here, but a GALLERY could be password protected, couldn't it? that only people who are enrolled in the school would have access, but for just a page of kids showing the different activities and such, the faces could be blurred, couldn't they?
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"The most affectionate creature in the world is a WET dog"---- Ambrose Bierce]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731108 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 16:02:50 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731044 pkalona : I have posted pictures of my daughter here and on my personal website however neither site includes my name or address. The problem here is really that the site would include pictures of the children and where to find them. In general, its probably not a good idea although it is not uncommon for schools and such. I think including names of the children would certainly be a bad idea. Parental consent is a must.

It is a huge liability to the center should something bad happen and the website were implicated as the source.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18731044 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:53:35 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730954 Dynevor : I would definitely oppose any posting of photographs of my kids on the Internet. We all know how easy it is to photochop a face or body of one image to another making a seemingly innocent picture into something else. :mad:

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."(JFK)

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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730954 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:42:44 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730870 pog : First of all, I would question the motive. What need would a gallery fulfill? Who benefits? Who will visit?

If a legitimate need can be identified, then I would ask what are other ways to proceed?

The anti-perv statement is knee-jerk but it's not inappropriate. The day care has a published address and phone number... easily found. The pictures would be like menu items. In most/all states, licensed day care providers have background checks done... despite the fact that the vast majority are decent people. The more important fact is that there ARE some evil people out there. IOW, minor inconvenience to all vs major trauma to a few... I'm glad we choose to protect the few.

I'm willing to bet that the director has no compelling reason to add a gallery other than some inarticulable desire to be more "cutting edge" than competitors, etc. Sorry if I'm unfairly characterizing... but I face this all the time. :)
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My Site]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730870 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:30:25 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730846 ccallana : I've always been reluctant to put pictures of my kids up on this site or any other... just makes me uncomfortable. Maybe I'm too paranoid, or seen too many movies and after school specials ;)
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"We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.... We are far too easily pleased." C.S. Lewis]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730846 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:27:07 EDT Re: Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730639 Maccawolf : First let me say that I have no children. (at least not two legged ones, only a couple with 4 legs and tails). I agree with signing a consent form AS WELL AS no names and fully clothed. Unfortunately, in this day and age you have to think of all the pervs out there.
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"The most affectionate creature in the world is a WET dog"---- Ambrose Bierce]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730639 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:02:31 EDT Would you put photos of children online? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730599 Jason Levine : The director of my son's daycare decided that she wants to have a photo gallery of the kids in the center. The marketing department head nixed the idea out of hand saying "we would be very opposed to putting pictures of children on a website that any pervert could access". Parents would have to sign a consent form before their child's photo would appear online and no names would be attached to the photos. Plus, all photos would feature the kids fully clothed. (No "Beach Day" or "The Kids Play In The Sprinklers" shots.)

I happen to think that there's nothing wrong with doing this, but then again I'm the webmaster that would build the online gallery, possibly the photographer that would take the photos, and a parent of a child that would appear on the site, so I might be biased. So I was wondering what everyone here thought of this. Would you allow a photograph of your child to appear online like this?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18730599 Mon, 23 Jul 2007 14:56:56 EDT