mammasix
Premium
join:2004-01-10
Frederick, MD
| reply to wierdo
Re: Evolution of the VoIP market?
I have a stripped down landline for my security system...guess how much this little piece of technology costs me? 25 per month. I can only get calls in, any calls out are charged per call.
On the other hand I have a VoIP line that costs me 19 a month and I have unlimited calling and full features.
I don't know where you guys live, but in MD, Verizon is a parasite. Before VoIP, we were paying around 80 per month for phone service. |
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matrix3D
join:2006-09-27
Deep River, CT
| reply to tc1uscg
You did take into consideration that these same "POTS" companies are typically the ones that control the backbone that all indie VoIP provider traffic must travel on, right? Meaning, they end up having to pay The Bell anyway. So, The Bell can charge just enough for the bandwidth consumption where the indie VoIP is forced to raise their rates to match (or, more often than not, exceed) the prices offered by The Bell for the exact same service. Why do you think The Bell has been raising the network neutrality issue so frequently for the past couple of years? They want to raise the prices in order to control more of the market using anticompetitive practices. And, unfortunately for us, The Bell pays off Uncle Sam so there's absolutely no hope of this cycle ever ending in this country.
The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to axus
Comparing AOL to a public utility is apples to oranges, but thanks.
The fact is that the part of the country that is chiming up here needs to remember that you all live in an expensive part of the country. It's expensive!! I know I will get lashed out for one this one, but its true: If you don't like these prices, then move to get relief. The cost to deliver anything to anyone in that area is always going to be higher than the rest of the country. It's certainly not a part of the country to live in if you don't make a good living, that's for sure. But, if it's not phone, it's going to be something else.
No, I am not any of those people you tried to use in your post - sorry. In fact, those days of per byte/hour broadband are on the horizon in case you haven't noticed. Give it a few years and broadband will be sold in tiers or caps with overage charges.
The FACT is, remains, that NOTHING is "free" or "Unlimited".. not even "unlimited long distance" .. read your agreement. Unlimited is equal to about 5000 minutes. You can't give the masses anything unlimited because some people will abuse it. When ever something unlimited is released, it pretty quickly goes back to being limited because, as you said, it's narrowed down to what the market can handle.
From your post, you make it sound like it's just a matter of time before you will get an unlimited service for a good price from that provider from god.. it's not going to happen and it won't happen anytime soon.
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." |
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fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
| reply to La Luna
I LOVE the entertainment this forum provides me when people come here and try to have a world wide / national discussion and then use local world examples.
YOU LIVE IN SOME OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE PARTS OF THE WORLD!!
Did I say that loud enough?? Much of the country can get a land line for about $15 or so a month.. some will pay less, some will pay more.
Why bother...
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"Complaining is the least path of resistance for the self-serving, the lazy, and I’m told it’s a woman’s prerogative..." |
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rec9140
Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL
| reply to morbo
said by morbo  :
i can't help thinking that if e911 was fully operational, even more people would drop pots like a bag of moldy tangerines.
If you have VOIP and your carrier sets up things they can offer E911 service.
The problem arises from the very nature of VOIP. I could be anywhere on the planet that has a internet connection capable of supporting the VOIP link.
So how to determine where I am and route to the correct PSAP if in the US, and if not to route to the correct agency. With out a bunch of rules that would make VOIP useless for those of us not using it for POTS replacement theres not a reliable way to do this for VOIP like cellular and GPS and/or triangulation which are not 100% accurate.
VOIP presents challenges that while large, are not insurmountable with out a making it useful for those using it for POTS replacement, and those using it for out of area DID's, etc..
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to fiberguy
You're going to look back on your post one day and laugh. Those people getting cheap phone service will just go to another provider. Meanwhile prices everywhere come down due to the competition and the "reliable" phone companies get cheaper every day that competitors are present.
Maybe you said the same thing when ISPs started offering flat-rate pricing instead of per-hour? Of course most of the ISPs from that time are gone, but sensible pricing models did win out. It's possible to provide phone service for cheaper, it will just take some time to narrow down to the companies that can keep it going. |
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wifi4milez
Big Russ, 1918 to 2008. Rest in Peace
join:2004-08-07
New York, NY
 ·Verizon FIOS
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·RoadRunner Cable
 ·BroadVoice
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :How much does that savings add up if you weren't able to get someone to your home in an emergency.. and you loose them? How much was that savings worth to you then? Let me add to that. I have a Broadvoice $5.95 per month account that I use as in my house. Although that price may be low, I pay for all calls above the 200 or so free minutes they give me per month. All in all the bill comes out to around $15 or $20 per month which isnt bad. HOWEVER, I would never, ever, ever have my primary/only phone be any VoIP provider, period. As you mention, dialing 911 (and having them answer, know who you are, and actually show up) is more important to me then saving a few bucks every month. Even if you have had no issues with a VoIP provider doesnt mean that 911 will work properly, nor does it mean your service will work all the time. For this very reason I also have a POTS line in my house just for emergencies like 911 or power outages. How much do I pay for my basic POTS line with no features you ask? $45 per month, and its worth every penny. VoIP is just a fun toy for me, not a real service. I would caution anyone who is thinking otherwise to think again.
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я люблю Денди! |
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dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ
| reply to dodgetech2
Vonage may be wonderful for you and that's ok. Me on the other hand want a reliable, always on system that I can hear the other person on the line clearly. I've always gotten that from my POTS service. Downtime over the past 30+ years is maybe once or twice.
Vonage service around here is not on the same level and I'm willing to pay more for what I feel is better service. Plus try to leave Vonage. The stories are legend on this board. |
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Rick
Premium,MVM
join:2001-02-06
Waterbury, CT
clubs: 
| reply to kyler13
If that is in fact the case with the hardware, I agree it could be a problem for some with fios and some cable co's speeds.
How about Verizon's voicewing? Have you looked into that?
My comments really shouldn't be misconstrued as an endorsement for AT^T callvantage...but rather what this competition has done for both these telcos in terms of their pricing, which certainly is very competitive these days and in line even with where vonage is priced at now.
As you point out however..that doesn't make it right for everyone.
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The Coyote captured the RR! Roadrunner Rick is now Comcastic! |
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kyler13
Is your fiber grounded?
join:2006-12-12
Arnold, MD
| reply to Rick
said by Rick :Far be it for me to be AT&T's biggest fan (lol)...but I do have to hand it to them for their VOIP pricing now. 20~25.00 per month unlimited is DAMN good pricing for their callvantage service. And,at least there's much more financial stability behind this company. Doesn't VALUE..also equate to stability in the company you deal with? And, shouldn't being at least a little bit REALISTIC guide your buying habits? I looked long and hard at CallVantage, but being a FIOS customer, I would be stuck with putting the ATA in front of my router. That seems to work well, but since the ATA architecture is 10baseT, I would be throwing away a third of my download speed. At least this was the issue back in January. No thanks. What you lose with bigger, more stable providers is flexbility and features. I would call AT&T the next best choice. You'll have to drag me back to landline kicking and screaming. An even larger price increase for marginal increase in stability and major decrease in features? Again, no thanks. |
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dodgetech2
join:2002-01-01
Gouldsboro, PA
·ProLog
·Vonage
1 edit | reply to dogo88
said by dogo88 :I don't know what part of NJ you live in but i only pay about $60 for unlimited POTS. A simple, no frills, line is much less. Last time I looked(less than a year ago) a no frills line is less that $30 a month. But why would anyone pay $30.00 for a "no frills' line when they can get a full featured unlimited calling line for the same money?
So at @60.00 a month, you pay twice what I pay...for the same thing, or $360.00 a year more....and my 911 works just fine....
Thats not my idea of a good deal. |
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morbo
Complete Your Transaction
join:2002-01-22
00000
clubs: | reply to Michieru2
i can't help thinking that if e911 was fully operational, even more people would drop pots like a bag of moldy tangerines. |
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v35_pilot
Whoops, there goes another AMU
Premium
join:2005-12-12
Fayetteville, NY
·ViaTalk
·Verizon FIOS
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to fiberguy
said by fiberguy :It amazes me how people love their VoIP service at $24 a month or $199 for two years. They love to save all this money and claim that other VoIP and POTS services are too expensive (usually $15 more a month)... In upstate NY, Verizon charges about $36/month before taxes for unlimited local and long distance and only three features: Call waiting, caller ID, and voicemail. Add all taxes and surcharges to that and the cost blooms to $59/month.
The absolute most basic phone service from Verizon in this area where EVERY outbound call is ten cents a call and no features is $12/month plus another $12 for taxes and surcharges.
In my case I wanted to finally use voicemail over an answering machine so I called VZ to enable it. What's that? Voicemail is not available in your area. Okay... that was what finally pushed me away.
So, in September 2006 I signed up with ViaTalk and currently pay about $14/month all inclusive. The control I now have over my phone service (whose phone number can ring our phones and when) is incredible. Over the past year I have had perhaps two weeks worth of VT-related quality problems, but never a service outage.
Am I concerned about VT going under? Sometimes, but this only has to do with the hassle of trying to keep my existing phone number. In the meantime I have saved about $500 per year.
Not a fanboy by any means, but just reporting this one's experience. |
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rec9140
Provoice just DO it
join:2003-07-29
Mulberry, FL
| reply to Michieru2
said by Michieru2 :
The 911 system must be updated to get GPS data from cellphones, and be able to trace the source of a call.
This has already occurred, but many areas do not support cellular E911 and there are various phases of this as well. You can blame PSAPS and carriers alike for the slow implementation of this. BUT....This is still not a 100% resolution to things on the cellular side.
There are areas in FLoriDUH which support Phase 2 Cellular E911. Its not perfect, trust me, the number of phantom calls that are chased to "estimated addresses" is quite annoying. Especially when you have a busy shift and these calls are treated as high priority due to the nature they could be anything. 9 out of 10 times its a nothing call, some sat on the phone and hit the 9 button, or hit the wrong key or stuffed in their bag and hit the 9 key, etc.. Along with the flat out lies..."We don't have no cell phone (as some stupid ringtone plays in the background as the call back number is called...  )
Even in the areas that don't have cellular E911, most get at least ICLID (NOT ANI) the way the calls are routed in some areas is not via 911 trunks but just a forward to a POTS line that is programmed into each cell site. With the ICLID it helps to at least call back if disconnected, but the process to trace it back to a customer, get their co-ordinates from the carrier is not speedy and is laborious on the PSAP end.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·Comcast
| reply to dogo88
said by dogo88 :I don't know what part of NJ you live in but i only pay about $60 for unlimited POTS. A simple, no frills, line is much less. Last time I looked(less than a year ago) a no frills line is less that $30 a month. I pay $40/mo for unlimited minutes local, state and long distance calling in US from Verizon. And they now have that same pkg for $30/mo with fewer add-ons(only 3 allowed).
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My BLOG
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schipperke
join:1999-11-29
Potomac, MD
·PHONE POWER
| reply to Rick
Maybe these VOIP companies getting a couple hundred bucks upfront, are really Hedge Funds using the VOIP business as a front 
Anyway, if SR did have in excess of 200,000 subscribers, that is some serious revenue per year, lets say over $40M. I still think they were banking on being bought, but why would any larger VOIP company want them when they are already commanding a higher fee? Why would I want to buy a competitor with lower margins than I'm getting? |
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dogo88
join:2001-09-24
Old Bridge, NJ | reply to La Luna
I don't know what part of NJ you live in but i only pay about $60 for unlimited POTS. A simple, no frills, line is much less. Last time I looked(less than a year ago) a no frills line is less that $30 a month. |
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Big Dawg 23
join:2002-03-27
Northfield, MN
| reply to fiberguy
Qwest in MN offers basic for $14.76 + taxes. They want $34.99 for Local, 5 cent LD and 10 Features. Additional $25 for unlimited long distance. How does that compare to my ATT Call Vantage @ $29.99 Unlimited? It doesn't. I have the same features and service for a better price. I have had fewer service calls with Charter and At&t Call Vantage then my Qwest landline. I selected AT&T over Vonage over any other VOIP solely on the good chance Banko starts to happen. So far I made the right choice. |
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bmfan
Premium
join:2005-03-15
Saint Helen, MI
1 edit | reply to La Luna
hmm my phone service is 13 dollars a month.. including my dsl and all the fees its 43 dollars a month |
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Michieru2
zzz zzz zzz
Premium
join:2005-01-28
Miami, FL
| reply to fiberguy
The only reason why POTS provides reliability to 911 services is that it was tied in with the 911 system. The 911 system was not designed for VOIP to begin with, it was also not designed for dynamic locations.
A 911 service operator is seeing a screen, when you call all they get is the telco records of what that numbers address is tied too.
Since there is no way to move the line physically, the only way possible is to route it somewhere in a wireless fashion or route it directly to the net. Where you can be in Austria for all we know but you are using your computer to connect to your home server, and from there you open up the connection and place your call.
When you call it still shows that you are calling through your phone line, what address are they going to get? Not the one in Austria, that's for sure.
The 911 system must be updated to get GPS data from cellphones, and be able to trace the source of a call.
But then we get into the whole "privacy" issue and everyone is bent like a nail about it.
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Duct tape, saving lives since 1942. |
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