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 spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC
| FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! * Action Alert: Call Congress Now - NSA Spying Bill Headed for Vote This Week!
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested that Congress may take action this week on a bill that could rubberstamp the NSA's spying program. The Bush Administration is trying to sell its latest proposal as a serious compromise, but don't be fooled -- it represents an unprecedented power grab that endangers the checks and balances that define our democracy. Please call your representatives now before it's too late: »action.eff.org/fisa
Contrary to the Administration's characterizations, its "FISA Modernization" bill is not simply about updating the law and allowing surveillance of foreign-to-foreign communications. Instead, it could radically expand the government's ability to spy on Americans without a warrant.
On its own terms, this bill is awful, and it's highly irresponsible for Congress to even consider it before uncovering the truth about the still-shadowy spying program. In recent weeks, Congress has made strides towards more vigorous oversight and authorized subpoenas for key information, but the proposed bill would short-circuit such scrutiny.
Tell your representatives to stand strong against the Administration and stop the abuse of surveillance powers: »action.eff.org/fisa
"Bush Urges Congress to Update Terrorism Surveillance Program," (Bloomberg, July 28): »www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···refer=us
To learn about EFF's case against AT&T for its role in the spying program: »www.eff.org/legal/cases/att
For this post and related links: »www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005382.php | |
|   spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! »www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291704,00.html
"Democrats Optimistic on Terror Surveillance Compromise
WASHINGTON Democratic congressional leaders said Wednesday they want to expand the government's surveillance authority over suspected terrorists and get it done before going on recess at week's end. But they remain in a stalemate with President Bush over spending, with no signs of progress.
The administration is pushing to update the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) to allow surveillance without a warrant of terror suspects who are overseas. The proposal, offered late last week by Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell, is designed to fix what the White House says is a glaring problem: the missing of significant foreign intelligence that could protect the country against terrorist attacks.
"To the extent that more flexibility is needed, as Director McConnell has indicated, we are prepared to make those accommodations under the law," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said after congressional leaders met with Bush at the White House Wednesday. "We hope to do that this week."
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he, too, thought the matter would be worked out. But he would not predict timing, as Pelosi did.
"In the Senate, I don't promise any legislation," Reid said. He said the hang-up is "what the involvement of the attorney general will be."
Democrats and some Republicans in the Senate have openly questioned the truthfulness of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, whom they also accuse of helping Bush exploit executive power at the expense of civil liberties and possibly beyond the law on an array of matters.
The Senate's Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, said he saw bipartisan willingness to get the legislation done before the Congress goes into recess.
The White House responded with measured optimism.
"I think they understand and appreciate the importance," Bush spokesman Tony Snow said of Democratic leaders. "We will see."
The administration believes the FISA court under existing law must approve certain spying because many conversations and contacts taking place overseas are routed through U.S.-based communication carriers, satellites or Internet providers.
Its latest proposal is narrower than what the administration sought in April: a slew of changes to the 1978 FISA law.
That law created a court which meets in secret to review applications from the FBI, the NSA and other agencies to investigate suspected spies, terrorists or other national security threats. Shortly after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Bush authorized the NSA to eavesdrop without requiring a warrant beforehand from the FISA court on calls between people in the U.S. and others overseas when terrorism is suspected.
After the program became public and was challenged in court, Bush earlier this year put it under FISA court supervision."
=========================================
People - this FISA "modernization" act is a sham that absolutely MUST be stopped. It is simply a massive increase in the governments' ability to ILLEGALLY spy on legitmate, legal citizens and will give the government retroactive cover and blessing for all the spying already done.
PLEASE CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE AND SENATORS (BOTH OF THEM!) - TODAY!
»action.aclu.org/site/R?i=wLTy2l1···uswh0cAg..
Pete | |
|  |   spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! »www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/07/31/···dex.html
"Spy chief: Anti-terrorist programs MORE EXTENSIVE THAN ACKNOWLEDGED
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bush administration's anti-terrorist surveillance efforts are more extensive than top officials have acknowledged, going beyond the controversial no-warrant eavesdropping program, the U.S. intelligence chief said Tuesday."
....
"In a letter defending the embattled attorney general, National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell states that eavesdropping is JUST ONE of the programs President Bush authorized after the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington.
"This is the only aspect of the NSA activities that can be discussed publicly because it is the only aspect of those various activities whose existence has been fully acknowledged," McConnell wrote."
============================================
What's it gonna take, people, before you finally realize that the government wants to - quite literally - stick a microphone and a videocam up your ass and RECORD YOUR WHOLE LIFE so that you can wind up being a "file" in some super-secret government agency?
FIGHT IT! They're behind on "1984" - but they're doing their level-best to catch up and SURPASS that! Pete | |
|   spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC
| (The following are qoutes from the UN-classified version of the "modernization" act - there is also a CLASSIFIED version, which of course, we'll never get to see or know the details of...) - »www.usdoj.gov/nsd/pdf/ODNIintell···3-07.pdf
(First brief mention of "cover my ass")
(h) LIABILITY.No cause of action shall lie in any court against any person for providing any information, facilities, or assistance in accordance with a directive under this section."
(MAIN ***RETROACTIVE*** "Cover my ass"):
SEC. 408. LIABILITY DEFENSE. (a) IN GENERAL.Notwithstanding any other law, and in addition to the immunities, privileges, and defenses provided by any other source of law, no action shall lie or be maintained in any court, and no penalty, sanction, or other form of remedy or relief shall be imposed by any court or any other body, against any person for the alleged provision to an element of the intelligence community of any information (including records or other information pertaining to a customer), facilities, or any other form of assistance, during the period of time beginning on September 11, 2001, and ending on the date that is the effective date of this Act, in connection with any alleged classified communications intelligence activity that the Attorney General or a designee of the Attorney General certifies, in a manner consistent with the protection of State secrets, is, was, would be, or would have been intended to protect the United States from a terrorist attack. This section shall apply to all actions, claims, or proceedings pending on or after the effective date of this Act. | |
|   spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC
| This is their own explanation of Section 408:
"Sec. 408. Liability Defense. Telecommunications providers who are alleged to have assisted the government with intelligence activities after September 11th have faced numerous lawsuits as a result of their alleged activities in support of the governments efforts to prevent another terrorist attack. Companies that cooperate with the Government in the war on terror deserve our appreciation and protection not litigation. This provision would protect providers from liability based upon allegations that they assisted the government in connection with alleged classified communications intelligence activities intended to protect the United States from a terrorist attack since September 11, 2001. Section 408 also provides for the removal of any such actions from state to federal court."
This totally defeats ALL previous, current and FUTURE lawsuits against AT&T and similar telcos who have been handing over your phone calls and Internet activities to the government illegally - INSTANTLY.
Hope you're down wid dat. Pete | |
|  ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
| said by spy1 :* Action Alert: Call Congress Now - NSA Spying Bill Headed for Vote This Week! House Speaker Nancy Pelosi suggested that Congress may take action this week on a bill that could rubberstamp the NSA's spying program. The Bush Administration is trying to sell its latest proposal as a serious compromise, but don't be fooled -- it represents an unprecedented power grab that endangers the checks and balances that define our democracy. Please call your representatives now before it's too late: » action.eff.org/fisaContrary to the Administration's characterizations, its "FISA Modernization" bill is not simply about updating the law and allowing surveillance of foreign-to-foreign communications. Instead, it could radically expand the government's ability to spy on Americans without a warrant. On its own terms, this bill is awful, and it's highly irresponsible for Congress to even consider it before uncovering the truth about the still-shadowy spying program. In recent weeks, Congress has made strides towards more vigorous oversight and authorized subpoenas for key information, but the proposed bill would short-circuit such scrutiny. Tell your representatives to stand strong against the Administration and stop the abuse of surveillance powers: » action.eff.org/fisa"Bush Urges Congress to Update Terrorism Surveillance Program," (Bloomberg, July 28): » www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=···refer=usTo learn about EFF's case against AT&T for its role in the spying program: » www.eff.org/legal/cases/attFor this post and related links: » www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005382.php Thanks for the heads-up! Called Feinstein's office to urge her to vote down any expansion or extension of the F.I.S.A. court authority, or the CYA provisions of this proposed legislation. I'm sure it fell on deaf ears, but I feel better.
Sorry your post wasn't turned into a front page item as it should have been. | |
|  ross
join:2000-08-16
·Digizip
3 edits | The Senate voted to pass the FISA Modernization bill with little alteration from the White House bill submitted.
»news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070804/ap_···eillance
...and, apparently, nobody gives a shit.
edit: it was the Senate, not the House. The House gets its arm twisted off today. | |
|  |  SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
| Re: Dark day for Americans... From the linked article: quote: By the final vote, Senate Democrats had whittled down that demand and approved a bill that largely mirrored what the Bush administration wanted. It requires:
_Initial approval by Director of National Intelligence Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. The administration relented to Democrats leery of Gonzales by adding McConnell to the oversight.
_FISA Court review within 120 days. The final Democratic plan had called for court review to begin immediately and conclude within a month of the surveillance starting
_The law to expire in six months to give Congress time to craft a more comprehensive plan. The White House initially wanted the bill to be permanent.
Before the vote, Democrats excoriated the GOP plan, which Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., said "provides a weak and practically nonexistent court review."
Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis., angrily chastised his colleagues for bending to the administration's will.
"The day we start deferring to someone who's not a member of this body ... is a sad day for the U.S. Senate," Feingold said. "We make the policy not the executive branch."
Likewise, civil liberties advocates said they were outraged that Democratic-led Senate would side with the White House.
"We're hugely disappointed with the Democrats," said Caroline Fredrickson, legislative director for the American Civil Liberties Union. "The idea they let themselves be manipulated into accepting the White House proposal, certainly taking a great deal of it, when they're in control it's mind-boggling."
It was not immediately clear whether House Speaker Nancy Pelosi would endorse the Senate bill after days of rejecting White House offers.
And how long ago was Orwell's book published? And how many of us supposedly read it? | |
|   hpguru Curb Your Dogma Premium join:2002-04-12 | We should be happy because now terrorists cannot kill us. Take that Osama!!  | |
|  OZO Premium join:2003-01-17 | With this kind of attitude what Osama can't do to us - we'll do it to yourself. It's a matter of the time  -- Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... | |
|   GILXA1226 Premium,MVM join:2000-12-29 London, OH clubs:
| Wasn't one of the compromises made with this bill that it dies in 6 months? That it was basically a stop gap so Congress could take their summer vacation? Or when I read that somewhere was the article mistaken? -- We don't give a d@mn for the whole state of Michigan... we're from OHIO! O!H! ... I!O! | |
|  |  |   FiOS Dan Premium join:2001-07-06 Redondo Beach, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| said by spy1 :Contrary to the Administration's characterizations, its "FISA Modernization" bill is not simply about updating the law and allowing surveillance of foreign-to-foreign communications. Instead, it could radically expand the government's ability to spy on Americans without a warrant. Big time FUD. I just read the entire proposal and it does no such thing. In fact, there are several references to "non-U.S. person" and "located outside the United States". For example (underlining mine):
SEC. 405. CLARIFICATION ON THE DEFINITION OF ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801) is hereby amended by adding a new section 112 as follows: "Section 112. Clarifications on the Definition of Electronic Surveillance. (1) Whenever a member of the Intelligence Community, as defined in section 3 of the National Security Act of 1947 (50 U.S.C. 401a), as amended, intentionally acquires the communications of a non-U.S. person reasonably believed to be located outside the United States and the primary purpose of such acquisition to acquire the communications of a particular, known person reasonably believed to be located in the United States, such activities shall be considered "electronic surveillance" as defined in section 101(f) (1)." -- Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
| |
|  |   spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! La Luna and FiOS Dan - You're both living in a constant, never-ending state of denial.
»www.fas.org/irp/congress/2006_hr···sey.html :
"The Chairman's New Legislation Would Not Modernize FISA -- It Would Turn Back the Clock to an Era of Warrantless Domestic Surveillance
Since last December, the President, the Attorney General, and other senior Administration officials have stated that the President's program of warrantless wiretapping is narrowly focused on international calls of suspected terrorists, that the program is used in circumstances where immediate monitoring is necessary for some short period of time, that domestic calls are not covered, and that in every case there is reasonable ground (or "probable cause") to believe that the target is associated with al Qaeda. The Administration has repeatedly assured lawmakers and the public that it is not engaged in a program of "domestic surveillance."
Chairman Specter has negotiated with the Administration a bill that would turn back the clock, not only by repealing FISA's exclusivity provision but also by authorizing a domestic program far broader -- and far more intrusive on the privacy of American citizens -- than the one the President and Attorney General have described.
Section 4 -- The Chairman's Bill Would Not Guarantee Judicial Review of Future Surveillance Programs Affecting Americans
The President has promised that he will submit his warrantless surveillance program for FISA court review if the Chairman's bill is enacted. With the highest respect for the Chairman, this is a small if not meaningless concession.
First, it is not clear that any legislation is necessary to get the President's program reviewed, since the program is already the subject of 30 pending cases. In the lead case, the district court last week turned aside a government effort to dismiss the case and is headed towards consideration of the merits.
Second, the Chairman's bill does not bind this President to submit for judicial review future programs nor does it require future Presidents to submit their programs for court review -- programs that may be substantially different from this President's program.
Third, the definitions used in the Chairman's bill might fail to give the FISA court jurisdiction to review the President's program:
# The President has said that his program only allows short term monitoring, but the Chairman's bill applies only to programs of long term monitoring. # The Attorney General has said that in every case, the President's program targets a specific suspected member or affiliate of al Qaeda, but the Chairman's bill applies only when it is not possible to specify who is being targeted.
Even assuming that the Chairman's bill would allow the FISA court to review the President's program, in other key ways the bill undermines judicial review by forcing transfer to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review (FISCR) of any case initiated by a citizen challenging a communications intelligence activity of the government. In these cases, the government would have the benefit not only of all its normal procedural grounds for seeking dismissal of a case but also of the largely ex parte and in camera processes of the FISCR, making it virtually impossible for parties challenging the government program to overcome the evidentiary burdens they would face.
Finally, the Chairman's bill imposes no consequences on the Administration should the Court refuse to approve the President's program. Unlike FISA, which states that surveillance begun without court approval must cease if the surveillance is later found to be unjustified, the Chairman's bill does not say that the government must cease programmatic activity that the court refuses to approve.
The Price Is Too High -- Turning the Clock Back to an Era of Unchecked Presidential Power and Warrantless Domestic Surveillance
What did it take to get the President to agree to submit his program to judicial review? It took a radical rewrite of FISA: the authorization of a broad new category of domestic surveillance, under "programmatic" or "general search" warrants; the repeal of FISA's exclusivity provision, making the entire statute, including the Chairman's amendments, merely optional; the repeal FISA's wartime exception, granting the President a blank check in domestic surveillance; and, in Section 9, major new exceptions to the warrant requirement for communications to which Americans are a party.
Sections 5-6 --General Warrants
Sections 5 and 6 of the Chairman's bill would authorize (but not require) the Administration to apply for, and the FISA court to grant, "general warrants," which are prohibited by two key provisions of the Fourth Amendment: particularity and probable cause.
With a general warrant, the Chairman's bill would authorize a program of domestic surveillance far broader than President Bush's program. The Attorney General has said that the President's program targets only communications with particular suspected members or affiliates of al Qaeda, only on the basis of probable cause, and only if one leg of the call is with a party overseas. The latest version of the Chairman's bill would authorize seizing the contents of purely domestic calls of American citizens without probable cause, without specific suspicion, and where the call has nothing to do with al Qaeda and not even anything to do with terrorism.
The substitute is especially broad because it allows interception intended to collect the communications not only of suspected terrorists but also a person who "is reasonably believed to have communication with or be associated with" a terror group or suspected terrorist. This means that a journalist who interviews a suspected terrorist, and doesn't even know that the person is considered a terrorist, could be subject to surveillance under this bill. Also, there is no limit on "associated with." Is one "associated with" a suspected terrorist because one goes to the same mosque? Is one "associated with" a suspected terrorist because one has roots in the same village or neighborhood? These connections may be worth checking out, but they are not adequate basis for content interception, which has always been considered one of the most intrusive forms of government invasion of privacy.
Also, the substitute does not use the Constitutional concept of probable cause. It actually does not specify the standard the court must use in determining whether the government has made the requisite showings. Instead, the substitute states that the court must find that the program is "reasonably designed" to intercept the communications of suspected terrorists or persons "reasonably believed [by whom it doesn't say] to have communication with or be associated with" suspected terrorists.
Invoking the FISA court's approval is purely optional under the substitute. Unlike the original version of the Chairman's bill, the substitute does not require the Administration to submit the President's warrantless surveillance program or any future program for judicial review.
The Chairman's bill, unlike FISA, requires either that a "significant purpose" of the program be the collection of foreign intelligence or that its purpose be to "protect against international terrorism," which means that the program can be used when its sole purpose is the collection of criminal evidence
While initial court approval of a program would be for up to 90 days, the court could renew the program for any length of time it deems reasonable.
Section 8 -- The Repeal of FISA's Exclusivity Provision Is Significant
Section 9 of the Chairman's bill would repeal the exclusivity provisions of FISA and allow the President to choose, at his discretion, between using FISA and pursuing some other undefined and constitutionally questionable method to carry out secret surveillance of Americans. This provision would turn back the clock 30 years ago, inviting a return to the era of COINTELPRO and the intelligence-related abuses that created confusion and drove down morale inside the intelligence agencies.
Repeal of exclusivity is not meaningless, for the whole purpose of the exclusivity clause is to constrain any "inherent power" the President has to carry out electronic surveillance in the absence of Congressional action. Indeed, in 1978, this very Committee stated in its Report on FISA that, "even if the President has 'inherent' constitutional power to authorize warrantless surveillance for foreign intelligence purposes, Congress has the power to regulate the exercise of this authority by legislating a reasonable warrant procedure governing foreign intelligence surveillance."
In its recent opinion in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, the Supreme Court majority noted, "Whether or not the President has independent power, absent congressional authorization, to convene military commissions, he may not disregard limitations that Congress has, in proper exercise of its own war powers, placed on his powers." Justice Kennedy, in his concurrence, explained why it is both constitutional and desirable for the Congress and the President to work together to devise a consensus set of rules for the exercise of national security powers and why the President is bound by those rules enacted by Congress:
This is not a case, then, where the Executive can assert some unilateral authority to fill a void left by congressional inaction. It is a case where Congress, in the proper exercise of its powers as an independent branch of government, and as part of a long tradition of legislative involvement in matters of military justice, has considered the subject of military tribunals and set limits on the President's authority. Where a statute provides the conditions for the exercise of governmental power, its requirements are the result of a deliberative and reflective process engaging both of the political branches. Respect for laws derived from the customary operation of the Executive and Legislative Branches gives some assurance of stability in time of crisis. The Constitution is best preserved by reliance on standards tested over time and insulated from the pressures of the moment. . . .
There is no doubt about it: repeal of exclusivity would restore to their full, albeit undefined scope, the President's inherent powers to conduct surveillance, turning back the clock to the era of uncertainty and abuse.
Section 9 -- Total Information Awareness on Steroids?
To cinch the deal with the White House, the Chairman has added to his bill a new Section 9, which would vastly expand the scope of warrantless surveillance that never has to be submitted to a court and create a vast database of phone calls and other information reminiscent of the Total Information Awareness program, which the Administration could data mine at will, outside any judicial or congressional oversight.
Probably 30% of the meaning of FISA is buried in its definitions, especially its definition of "electronic surveillance" and "minimization procedures." Sugar-coated as "conforming amendments," the changes made by Section 9 to these two definitions, and the changes to Section 102 of FISA, would authorize large-scale warrantless surveillance of American citizens and the indefinite retention of citizens' communications for future datamining.
The "cut and bite" amendments of Section 9 are very hard to parse, but so far, we have identified the following remarkable provisions:
# The bill makes major changes to FISA's definition of electronic surveillance. Under FISA, if the collection of information fits within the definition of "electronic surveillance," it requires a court order or must fall under one of FISA's exceptions. If the collection of information is outside the definition of electronic surveillance, then it is not covered by the Act, and can be carried on without a warrant. Therefore, narrowing the definition of electronic surveillance places more activity outside the oversight of the Act. Section 9 makes major changes to the definition of electronic surveillance, permitting the NSA's vacuum cleaners to be turned on any international calls involving US citizens.
# In what may be the most far-reaching provision, Section 9 amends section 102 of FISA (50 USC 1802) to allow the "Attorney General" to authorize warrantless surveillance if it is "solely directed at the acquisition of the communications of a foreign power or agent of a foreign power." Under this amendment, so long as the surveillance is "directed at" a foreign power or non-US person suspected of being an agent of a foreign power, the government can intercept the purely domestic calls of US citizens without court order.
# Under the bill, if he chooses, the Attorney General can designate anyone -- his secretary, the janitor, an official of the department of Defense, a local police officer, as "Attorney General", thereby authorized to approve warrantless surveillance under section 102, to issue certifications to communications companies and others, and to carry out all the other duties assigned to the Attorney General under the Act.
# The bill amends the definition of a non-US person agent of a foreign power to include someone who "possesses or is expected to transmit or receiving foreign intelligence while in the" US."
You are both disgustingly complacent and either incredibly naive or stooges for totalitarian government as the status-quo in the United States.
Have a great evening. Pete | |
|  |  |   Thug21 Just Chillin' Premium join:2005-08-21
4 edits | Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! Since we are told that anyone could be a terrorist (I bet even a Swedish granny from MN! ) what is it to stop all of us from being watched?
It's odd, this country has such open borders yet we have these kinds of bills in the name of "safety"
Something is terribly wrong and both parties are to blame. | |
|  |   TechieZero Tools Are Using Me Premium join:2002-01-25 Wesley Chapel, FL
| said by FiOS Dan :I just read the entire proposal and it does no such thing. In fact, there are several references to "non-U.S. person" and "located outside the United States". I get the same thing. I am also getting the impression that the administration is trying to work out any ambiguity before any issues occur --- which is a wise thing to do so it doesn't get out of hand.
I don't get this "sky is falling" stuff we are seeing in this thread. These people need to STFU & GBTW.
If anything the criteria for a non-US person should be clarified or at least reviewed and not assumed, if people are truly paranoid. | |
|  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
1 edit | Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by TechieZero :said by FiOS Dan :I just read the entire proposal and it does no such thing. In fact, there are several references to "non-U.S. person" and "located outside the United States". I get the same thing. I am also getting the impression that the administration is trying to work out any ambiguity before any issues occur --- which is a wise thing to do so it doesn't get out of hand. I don't get this "sky is falling" stuff we are seeing in this thread. These people need to STFU & GBTW. If anything the criteria for a non-US person should be clarified or at least reviewed and not assumed, if people are truly paranoid. Yes, it will be "clarified and reviewed" by the Attorney General, who is a liar. Previously it was reviewed by a FISA judge, but apparently that wasn't rubber-stamp enough, so now the Executive has the sole authority to decide what "up" means.
A FISA warrant was never rejected before Bush. The FISA Court has now rejected 6 out of his 5,645+ applications. | |
|  |  |  |   TechieZero Tools Are Using Me Premium join:2002-01-25 Wesley Chapel, FL
1 edit | Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by AmeritecTech :Yes, it will be "clarified and reviewed" by the Attorney General, who is a liar. If he lied under oath he would have been slammed by now. Gee...that hasn't happened. Perhaps he is *not* the liar you think he is?
said by AmeritecTech :Previously it was reviewed by a FISA judge, but apparently that wasn't rubber-stamp enough, so now the Executive has the sole authority to decide what "up" means. Not so. It is subject to review by the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Reps *AND* the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate.
Additionally the Chief Justice gets a copy to review and the Director of National Intelligence get consulted.
This actually gets more people involved in all three branches of government. | |
|  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by TechieZero :said by AmeritecTech :Yes, it will be "clarified and reviewed" by the Attorney General, who is a liar. If he lied under oath he would have been slammed by now. Gee...that hasn't happened. Perhaps he is *not* the liar you think he is? Yeah, that's in progress. Meanwhile, the director of the FBI says he's lying.
»www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19975387/
Not so. It is subject to review by the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Reps *AND* the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate. Your saying that each of the President's requests for surveillance will be sent to Congressional committees? Cite a source, please. -- "Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions." -John Callari | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   TechieZero Tools Are Using Me Premium join:2002-01-25 Wesley Chapel, FL
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by AmeritecTech :A) Meanwhile, the director of the FBI says he's lying. » www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19975387/B) Your saying that each of the President's requests for surveillance will be sent to Congressional committees? Cite a source, please. A) No where does it says that the FBI Director says he is lying. In fact it does not detail anything other than there were some perceived contradictions.
They are pissed that the Executive won't bend the knee to them. Well guess what? If the Executive made these SAME REQUESTS to the Legislative --- they can tell them to go fish just as well.
B) THE BILL. It's not the President's requests, but the Attorney General's. It's in the Bill, it is what we are talking about, go read it. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by TechieZero :A) No where does it says that the FBI Director says he is lying. In fact it does not detail anything other than there were some perceived contradictions. FBI director Robert Mueller, the top law-enforcement agent within the Justice Department, testified before that House Judiciary Committee that there was in fact a heated confrontation between senior Justice Department officials and White House aides in 2004, regarding President Bush's warrantless NSA wiretapping program. Two days earlier, AG Gonzales had told the Senate there had never been any disagreements within the administration regarding the legality of the [NSA Wiretapping] program. Mueller testified that the crisis was so severe, he had to intervene to prevent a wave of resignations at Justice.
Tuesday's testimony by the attorney general had already stirrd controversy, as it differed significantly from information already learned in hearings and sworn testimony. According to the International Herald Tribune, "In a separate development, Senate Democrats, who were unaware of Mueller's comments, demanded the appointment of a special counsel to investigate whether Gonzales committed perjury in his testimony on Tuesday about the intelligence dispute."
AG Gonzales reportedly testified that the disagreement that occured in early 2004, which nearly led to a raft of top-level resignations, was to do with "other intelligence activities", and not the NSA-based "terrorist surveillance program", which wiretapped American citizens en masse and without warrants. A Justice spokesman said of Gonzales' testimony that he did not lie, that "confusion is inevitable when complicated classified activities are discussed in a public forum where the greatest care must be used not to compromise sensitive intelligence operations". Gonzales states there was no rift. Mueller states there was a rift so big that he had to intervene to prevent resignations.
They are pissed that the Executive won't bend the knee to them. Well guess what? If the Executive made these SAME REQUESTS to the Legislative --- they can tell them to go fish just as well. Yes, but the legislative branch isn't monitoring phonelines all over the country. This bunch needs oversight because they've proven to be dishonorable.
B) THE BILL. It's not the President's requests, but the Attorney General's. It's in the Bill, it is what we are talking about, go read it. The Attorney General acts as the President's instrument. -- "Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions." -John Callari | |
|  |  |  |   manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs: | "6" rejections out of 5645 applications? That's .1%, you've got to be kidding. | |
|  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
1 edit | Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by manfmmd :"6" rejections out of 5645 applications? That's .1%, you've got to be kidding. If an application is denied by one judge of the FISC, the federal government is not allowed to make the same application to a different judge of the FISC. Instead, denials must be appealed to the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review. Such appeals are rare: the first appeal from the FISC to the Court of Review was made in 2002, 24 years after the founding of the FISC.
It is also rare for FISA warrant requests to be turned down by the court. Through the end of 2004, 18,761 warrants were granted, while just five were rejected (many sources say four). Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004. The four known rejected requests were all from 2003, and all four were partially granted after being resubmitted for reconsideration by the government. Of the requests that had to be modified, few if any were before the year 2000. In subsequent years, according to journalist Joshua Micah Marshall, the breakdown was as follows:[3]
Year Modified requests 2000 1 request modified 2001 2 requests modified 2002 2 requests modified (both modifications later reversed) 2003 79 requests modified (out of 1724 granted) 2004 94 requests modified (out of 1758) »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta···ce_Court | |
|  |  |  |  |  |   manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by AmeritecTech :said by manfmmd :"6" rejections out of 5645 applications? That's .1%, you've got to be kidding. Prior to Bush, 0 applications had been denied. So are you saying that the FISA court, whose members have an expiration date on their membership, are being more prudent? Is that a bad thing? Were they rejected because the Executive refused to amend them? We have no idea WHY they were rejected.
Again, we would need to look at the entire process, through all administrations, since the inception if the FISA court, to see what is going on.
Again, with .1% rejection I think we are roaming into tin-foil hat territory. What is the rejection level in say Houston? How many warrants does HPD have turned down every year? I'm going to wager that it's higher than .1% -- If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by manfmmd :said by AmeritecTech :said by manfmmd :"6" rejections out of 5645 applications? That's .1%, you've got to be kidding. Prior to Bush, 0 applications had been denied. So are you saying that the FISA court, whose members have an expiration date on their membership, are being more prudent? Is that a bad thing? Were they rejected because the Executive refused to amend them? We have no idea WHY they were rejected. Again, we would need to look at the entire process, through all administrations, since the inception if the FISA court, to see what is going on. Again, with .1% rejection I think we are roaming into tin-foil hat territory. What is the rejection level in say Houston? How many warrants does HPD have turned down every year? I'm going to wager that it's higher than .1% This is precisely the concern: with such a compliant court, why would the administration need to subvert the process and hand this oversight power from judges to the Attorney General? The answer is likely that they want to implement a program with a much wider scope, collecting data wholesale, and then requesting warrants when they feel they had collected American conversations. That is to say, surveillance of Americans begins with this law, and if we can trust the Attorney General, he'll request warrants if a particular American conversation interests them. -- "Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions." -John Callari | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
1 edit | Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! You're glossing over the fact that the Executive/AG must also notify the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate.
That's what keeps getting glossed over here: There are committees that see all of this information and can shut this down at any time.
edit: Under the minimization procedures, if they suspect that an American is being monitored, without a warrant, they must stop and get the warrant. I don't see a problem here. -- If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by manfmmd :You're glossing over the fact that the Executive/AG must also notify the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate. That's what keeps getting glossed over here: There are committees that see all of this information and can shut this down at any time. "`(d) An acquisition under this section may be conducted only in accordance with the certification of the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General, or their oral instructions if time does not permit the preparation of a certification, and the minimization procedures adopted by the Attorney General. The Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General shall assess compliance with such procedures and shall report such assessments to the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate under section 108(a)."
In other words, Alberto Gonzales and the Director of National Intelligence need to file a report with Congress saying "Yes, we continue to follow appropriate procedures."
Allowing them to oversee themselves is no oversight at all! This is why judges are supposed to be involved in the process. -- "Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions." -John Callari | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   manfmmd Premium join:2003-01-14 Earth clubs:
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by AmeritecTech :said by manfmmd :You're glossing over the fact that the Executive/AG must also notify the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate. That's what keeps getting glossed over here: There are committees that see all of this information and can shut this down at any time. "`(d) An acquisition under this section may be conducted only in accordance with the certification of the Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General, or their oral instructions if time does not permit the preparation of a certification, and the minimization procedures adopted by the Attorney General. The Director of National Intelligence and the Attorney General shall assess compliance with such procedures and shall report such assessments to the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence of the House of Representatives and the Select Committee on Intelligence of the Senate under section 108(a)." In other words, Alberto Gonzales and the Director of National Intelligence need to file a report with Congress saying "Yes, we continue to follow appropriate procedures." Allowing them to oversee themselves is no oversight at all! This is why judges are supposed to be involved in the process. Judges who are political appointees. *This is not directed at you personally* but, where does the circle of insanity end? How many checks and balances are enough? Who must the government satisfy?
You can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time. -- If the road to Hell is paved with good intentions, what is the road to Heaven paved with? | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by manfmmd :Judges who are political appointees. *This is not directed at you personally* but, where does the circle of insanity end? How many checks and balances are enough? Who must the government satisfy? You can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time. FISA was an extremely low bar. This law essentially gives fewer checks and balances. They no longer have to go to FISA for surveillance of foreign nationals, and while they're still expected to go to FISA on surveillance of American citizens, they're now on their honor.
And they're found lacking in the honor department.
On May 17, 2002, the court rebuffed then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, releasing an opinion that alleged that FBI and Justice Department officials had "supplied erroneous information to the court in more than 75 applications for search warrants and wiretaps, including one signed by then-FBI Director Louis J. Freeh".[4] Whether this rebuke is related to the court starting to require modification of drastically more requests in 2003 is unknown.
On December 16, 2005, the New York Times reported that the Bush administration had been conducting surveillance against U.S. citizens without the knowledge of the FISC since 2002.[5] On December 20, 2005, Judge James Robertson resigned his position with the FISC, apparently in protest of the secret surveillance.[6] The government's apparent circumvention of the FISC may also be related to the increase in court-ordered modifications to warrant requests. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta···ce_Court -- "Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions." -John Callari | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   TechieZero Tools Are Using Me Premium join:2002-01-25 Wesley Chapel, FL
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by AmeritecTech :said by manfmmd :Judges who are political appointees. *This is not directed at you personally* but, where does the circle of insanity end? How many checks and balances are enough? Who must the government satisfy? You can't please ALL of the people ALL of the time. FISA was an extremely low bar. This law essentially gives fewer checks and balances. They no longer have to go to FISA for surveillance of foreign nationals, and while they're still expected to go to FISA on surveillance of American citizens, they're now on their honor. And they're found lacking in the honor department. On May 17, 2002, the court rebuffed then-Attorney General John Ashcroft, releasing an opinion that alleged that FBI and Justice Department officials had "supplied erroneous information to the court in more than 75 applications for search warrants and wiretaps, including one signed by then-FBI Director Louis J. Freeh".[4] Whether this rebuke is related to the court starting to require modification of drastically more requests in 2003 is unknown.
On December 16, 2005, the New York Times reported that the Bush administration had been conducting surveillance against U.S. citizens without the knowledge of the FISC since 2002.[5] On December 20, 2005, Judge James Robertson resigned his position with the FISC, apparently in protest of the secret surveillance.[6] The government's apparent circumvention of the FISC may also be related to the increase in court-ordered modifications to warrant requests. » en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Sta···ce_Court Whatever...
Can you read the f-ing bill instead of grabbing more useless external sources not germaine to the discussion?
READ THE BILL.  | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   TechieZero Tools Are Using Me Premium join:2002-01-25 Wesley Chapel, FL
| said by AmeritecTech :Allowing them to oversee themselves is no oversight at all! This is why judges are supposed to be involved in the process. Judges *ARE* part of the process. You stopped short of your reading as I have stated earlier and if you had continued,
"The Attorney General shall promptly transmit under seal to the court...a copy of the certification..." | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by TechieZero :said by AmeritecTech :Allowing them to oversee themselves is no oversight at all! This is why judges are supposed to be involved in the process. Judges *ARE* part of the process. You stopped short of your reading as I have stated earlier and if you had continued, "The Attorney General shall promptly transmit under seal to the court... a copy of the certification..." Again, that is not true oversight. AG AG transmits a report which states "everything is fine, we are following procedure". That doesn't tell us whether or not that's actually the case, because we can't trust the Attorney General to provide credible oversight. All surveillance requests should be going to the FISA Court, and this bill circumvented that, even after the administration was caught surveilling Americans without FISA approval. -- "Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions." -John Callari | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  See 39 replies to this post | |
 |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   AmeritecTech Change we can believe in, 1922 Premium join:2002-09-06 Houston, TX
| said by manfmmd :That's what keeps getting glossed over here: There are committees that see all of this information and can shut this down at any time. All they see is the report from the AG and Director of National Intelligence that all systems are go and everything is A-OK. Whether or not that is actually true could only be determined with true oversight.
edit: Under the minimization procedures, if they suspect that an American is being monitored, without a warrant, they must stop and get the warrant. I don't see a problem here. No, they're not required to stop. They just need to request a warrant within 21 days of when they notice that they're monitoring an American. Meanwhile, wholesale collection of American conversations will be ongoing while they dig through the data. -- "Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions." -John Callari | |
|  |  |  |  |   jvmorris I Am The Man Who Was Not There. Premium,MVM join:2001-04-03 Reston, VA
| Annnhhh, there was also a (larger) number of requests that were returned to the submitting authority for revision (to satisfy requirements of the law). Some of these were resubmitted and subsequently approved, . . . and some simply weren't.
And then we found that the Administration started conducting the surveillance without submitting requests to FISA. These, rather obviously, were never rejected by the Court. -- Regards, Joseph V. Morris | |
|  |  |   FiOS Dan Premium join:2001-07-06 Redondo Beach, CA
·Verizon FIOS
| Excerpt from an interview yesterday with former CIA Director R. James Woolsey:
------------------------------------------------------------ Former CIA Director: Terrorist Strike Within U.S. Real Threat
Kenneth R. Timmerman Tuesday, Aug. 7, 2007
Asked what three things we need to do to make America more safe, Woolsey said that the first and most important was not to tie the president's hands when it came to intelligence collection. Efforts by Democrats to require court orders to intercept international communications amounted to "shooting ourselves in the foot," he added. ------------------------------------------------------------
Full interview can be read at »www.newsmax.com/archives/article···05.shtml. -- Courage is being scared to death but saddling up anyway.
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|  |  |  |   Crypto Premium join:2001-01-07 Saint Charles, MO
| Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! said by FiOS Dan :------------------------------------------------------------ Former CIA Director: Terrorist Strike Within U.S. Real Threat Kenneth R. Timmerman Tuesday, Aug. 7, 2007 Asked what three things we need to do to make America more safe, Woolsey said that the first and most important was not to tie the president's hands when it came to intelligence collection. Efforts by Democrats to require court orders to intercept international communications amounted to "shooting ourselves in the foot," he added. ------------------------------------------------------------ Putting surveillance cameras in everyone's home would probably cut down on domestic violence too, should we say that everyone who opposes that is trying to "tie the police's hands" ?
NO, BECAUSE THIS IS AMERICA AND WE DONT PUT UP WITH INTRUSIVE SHIT LIKE THAT.
What I am saying is that we are headed towards a police state at a breakneck speed. I am not prepared to sacrifice essential freedoms and liberties in order to let some idiot from the government monitor me in the interest of safety.
It is not worth sacrificing the principles this naiton was founded on just to sleep a little better. -- You have 4 boxes available to you: Soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Utilize them in that order.
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  spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC | They're voting on it on C_SPAN right now, people. You missed the 90 minutes of debate, I guess.
That's a shame - it beat the hell out of "reality" tv. Pete | |
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  whizkid3 Premium,MVM join:2002-02-21 Queens, NY | Well we all know that one can take the title of any Bush Administration bill, and by changing it to the opposite will describe more closely what the bill is for:
The "Protect America Act"
becomes:
The "Screw America Act" | |
|  SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
| 1998 Fatwa: quote: The 1998 Fatwa was signed by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and others. It lists three grievances:1. U.S. occupation of the Arabian Peninsula. 2. U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people. 3. U.S. support of Israel. These three grievances are the motives for al-Qaeda's attacks.
Click above link for more analysis and details.
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From Wikipedia - September 11, 2001 attacks - Motive: said by Wikipedia : The September 11 attacks were consistent with the overall mission statement of al-Qaeda, as set out in a 1998 fatwa issued by Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Shaykh Mir Hamzah, and Fazlur Rahman.[93] The fatwa lists main three "crimes and sins" committed by the Americans: U.S. military occupation of the Arabian Peninsula, U.S. aggression against the Iraqi people, and U.S. support of Israel. The fatwa also specifically condemns the U.S. for "plundering" the resources of the region, oppressing the people by supporting abusive regimes in the region, and dictating policy to legitimate leaders. It also opposes the presence of U.S. military bases and installations in the region, especially on Muslim holy land, which are used to "threaten" Muslim countries, while fomenting disunity and strife. By a similar token, it decries the continued refusal to address the "occupation of Palestine".
The Persian Gulf War, the ensuing sanctions against Iraq and the bombing of Iraq by the United States were cited in 1998 as further proof of these allegations. The fatwa uses Islamic texts to exhort violent action against American military and citizenry until the alleged grievances are reversed, stating "ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries."
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Full text of the second fatwa originally published on February 23, 1998, to declare a holy war, or jihad, against the West and Israel. Read it here.
It is signed by Osama bin Laden, head of al Qaeda; Ayman al-Zawahiri, head of Jihad Group in Egypt, and several other Islamic terrorist groups. | |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |   delenn13 De gustibus nil disputandum Premium,MVM join:2006-03-02 Ridgeway, ON clubs:
| This all sounds like a "repeat" to me of the 50's and 60's with new tech. Anyone remember Joseph McCarthy or J. Edgar Hoover?
How many people's livelihoods or careers were ruined because of finger pointing of others so they could go scot free? Gonna spy on your neighbour? Turn in your parent?
***Grabs*** a copy of Arthur Miller's "Crucible" and starts reading. History DOES repeat itself. -- "Dismissed. That's a Starfleet expression for 'Get out.'" Capt. Kathryn Janeway We CAN Cure Alzheimer's and Cancer. JOIN US HERE | |
|  |  |  See 6 replies to this post | |
 SUMware Premium join:2002-05-21
| From SFGate August 6, 2007: quote: For the first time in nearly four decades, a senior intelligence official not a secretive federal court will have a decisive voice in whether Americans' communications can be monitored when they talk to foreigners overseas.
The bill provides new powers to the National Security Agency to monitor communications that enter the United States and involve foreigners who are the subjects of a national security investigation.
They would give National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales joint authority to approve the monitoring of such calls and e-mails, rather than the 11-member Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
That means an intelligence official is now empowered to sort through the legalistic, secretive world of FISA, rather than a judge or the nation's highest law enforcement officer.
On Monday, White House spokeswoman Tony Fratto dismissed as "highly misleading" any suggestion that the changes broadly expanded the government's authority to eavesdrop on Americans' communications without court approval.
However, the law's wording underscored by conversations with administration officials shows the rules governing when and how Americans' calls and e-mails will be monitored have changed significantly.
Communications that can get caught up in intelligence collection require a spectrum of approvals, depending on the circumstances. Generally, such calls, e-mails, text messages and other electronic exchanges fall into three categories:
- Purely foreign overseas communications. The NSA can monitor these calls and e-mails without any signoff from a judge or a senior government official.
- Domestic conversations between two Americans. The Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable search and seizure requires that the government get approval from a court before eavesdropping on these exchanges.
- Communications between an American and a foreigner, a more complex, gray area. If the American is the target of the investigation, then a court must approve the surveillance, the White House says. However, if the foreigner is the target, no court approval is necessary under the new law. Instead, Gonzales and McConnell will decide together whether to go ahead with the work.
It's this area when an American is talking to a foreign suspect where the Bush administration has acquired powers it didn't have before.
Under government regulations, agencies are supposed to minimize the collection, retention, and dissemination of any information about a U.S. citizen. Often that means names are blacked out, unless the identity is crucial to understanding the conversation.
Lisa Graves of the Center for National Security Studies, which advocates for civil liberties, said the new law will potentially allow the government to intercept millions of Americans' calls and e-mails without warrants as long as the NSA and other authorities have a foreign suspect in their sights.
"This power that they have obtained is a dramatic expansion," she said.
The Bush administration also fixed an odd quirk of the surveillance law that it said had emerged with the rapid technological growth of the past two decades: The government had to get legal approval to listen in on foreign suspects who are located overseas but whose conversations cross into the extensive U.S. communications network, as millions of international calls and e-mails do each day.
While the law is in effect, that legal approval will no longer be required, officials acknowledged.
The power may last longer than some people expect, Graves noted, thanks to a little-noticed provision of the bill. While the law expires in February unless Congress acts to extend it, any surveillance orders that are in place when it sunsets can last up to a full year, she said.
Without a repeal, lawmakers "weren't just giving them the power for six months. They were giving it to them for the rest of the administration," Graves said.
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|   whizkid3 Premium,MVM join:2002-02-21 Queens, NY | Gag orders...surveilance without a warrant...
What we're seeing here is a wholesale dismantling of the Constitution and our basic natural freedoms. | |
|   spy1 Welcome to Amerika Premium join:2002-06-24 Charlotte, NC
| Well, at least the Electronic Frontier Foundation hasn't given up:
"* Action Alert: Push Congress Back Into the Wiretapping Fight to Restore your Rights
Last week, Congress passed horrible legislation that broadly expands the National Security Agency's authority to spy on Americans without warrants. Now Congress needs to undo the damage as soon as possible, and to make it do that, it needs to hear from you: »action.eff.org/fisa
By capitulating to the President's demands for sweeping new surveillance powers, Congress not only trampled on your Constitutional rights but also disregarded its own Constitutional duties. The law permits warrantless surveillance of "persons reasonably believed to be located outside the United States," even when they are U.S. citizens or are communicating with U.S. citizens, with no prior court approval and only minimal court oversight. Rather than setting meaningful boundaries on the Executive, Congress essentially handed him a blank check to invade Americans' privacy.
The most important check on government surveillance still remains though. It's you. Tell your representatives to repeal this legislation and restore your rights now: »action.eff.org/fisa
Congress' actions are particularly disgraceful given how the Administration has concealed the truth about its illegal spying. The President only revealed the so-called "Terrorist Surveillance Program" when press reports forced his hand in December 2005, and, after the Administration deliberately evaded numerous Congressional inquiries, it took the threat of possible perjury charges for the Attorney General to concede last week that the program was broader than first admitted. In its haste to pass legislation, Congress was essentially flying blind, yet it caved in to the Administration's fear-mongering anyway.
This is a knockdown -- but far from a knockout -- in the battle to stop the government's warrantless domestic surveillance. The fight is not over, and, if you push them hard enough, Congress still has a chance to set things right.
For our part, EFF's case continues forward against AT&T for illegally collaborating with the government, with a hearing before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals next Wednesday. We'll keep battling in the courts to uphold the Constitution and restore your rights.
We will also be taking the fight back to Congress, and for that we need your help. It's up to you to hold your representatives accountable for either allowing this egregious change or supporting it outright. Don't let them think for a second that this went unnoticed: send them a letter, call them to voice your opposition, and visit their home offices in your district during the August recess. Spread the word to your friends and family about what Congress has done and urge them to take action, too.
Fortunately, the law has a sunset date, and, more importantly, Congressional leaders are already signaling that they want to revise the law before then. Restoring protections for your fundamental rights shouldn't wait even a day. Neither should our efforts to make sure that happens -- take action now: »action.eff.org/fisa
Read the Center for National Security Studies analysis of the bill: »www.cnss.org/CNSS%20Views%20on%20S1927.htm
For EFF's case against AT&T: »www.eff.org/legal/cases/att
For EFF's page on the NSA's Warrantless Domestic Surveillance: »www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/NSA/
See EFF's earlier article, "Administration Concedes Open Secret: NSA Spying Broader Than Previously Admitted": »www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005386.php
For this post: »www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005395.php " Pete | |
|   CajunTek Insane Cajun Premium,MVM join:2003-08-08 Arlington, TX
·RoadRunner Cable
1 edit | My opinion on this... Is that it has wandered (almost immediately) from a discussion on security to a political discussion.. and should be in either the RED ROOM or the BLUE ROOM...
My actual opinion on the bill will be reserved for the postings in that venue...
Edited to correct a typo... -- da Cajun
Darn I hate Malware | |
|  |  FLHTCU92
join:2007-08-04 Austin, TX | Re: FISA 'modernization" bill - head's up! Thank you!! My thoughts exactly! | |
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