Re: Why billing is screwed up in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18841412 en Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:45:10 EDT Mon, 13 Oct 2008 18:45:10 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845132 anon : They also outsource some fios support to telvista in irving, tx. In an attempt to hide the existence of the outsourcing from certain union areas, telvista ("park west fsc") is to transfer any callers not from Florida, Texas, Calif, Washington, Oregon, or South Carolina.

Telvista fsc reps don't have access to all the tools "real" reps do. They also do not support (and thus transfer) video. However, most are former dsl agents and are more technically inclined than your average verizon fsc rep, a good number of which are former billing/service reps.

Note that the relationship is not new. Telvista has provided dsl support for verizon from the beginning.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18845132 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 02:29:31 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18841412 smokythebear : yes, thats exactly what i was talking about. Thanks for expanding on my post :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18841412 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:16:49 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839415 hobgoblin :
said by JTRockville See Profile :

I wouldn't dump billing into the support bucket - I'd categorize billing as billing, so I'll stick by my claim that FiOS support is superb.

But of course, in my experience billing has been fine too. Has your experience been different than mine, hob?
My experience with Verizon is limited to DSL Support, using the Direct Forum and the Phone system. While the techs in the Direct Forum were pleasant they actually had no clue what the issue was and kept trying to set up a house visit for a router in State College PA. The Billing support was pathetic when I tried to get some sort of credit for the issue. It took three calls to get 20 bucks.

As a support profesional if I was rolling out support for a brand new service it is very easy to look good in the early stages. The Initial take up of the service is normally highly skilled users that in most cases are not a supprt burden. Once marketing starts targetting the next level of the customer base is when the the issues start.

Of Course Billing is SUPPORT.

Hob
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839415 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:55:15 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839412 JTRockville : So true. And first-hand experience trumps all of 'em.

FiOS support rocks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839412 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:54:01 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839375 AmeritecTech :
said by hobgoblin See Profile :

said by JTRockville See Profile :

Predictions of gloom and doom don't change the present. In the here-and-now, FiOS support deserves kudos.
Other than their Billing eh? Oh and their DSL and POTS Support In Maryland.

What was it my Mom used to say. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Hob
You can't judge a book by its cover.
Past performance does not guarantee future results.

There's plenty of worthless platitudes to throw around.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839375 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:47:10 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839366 JTRockville : I wouldn't dump billing into the support bucket - I'd categorize billing as billing, so I'll stick by my claim that FiOS support is superb.

But of course, in my experience billing has been fine too. Has your experience been different than mine, hob?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839366 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:46:11 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839343 hobgoblin :
said by JTRockville See Profile :

Predictions of gloom and doom don't change the present. In the here-and-now, FiOS support deserves kudos.
Other than their Billing eh? Oh and their DSL and POTS Support In Maryland.

What was it my Mom used to say. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear.

Hob]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839343 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:40:09 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839321 JTRockville : Predictions of gloom and doom don't change the present. In the here-and-now, FiOS support deserves kudos.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839321 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:35:39 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839291 hobgoblin : "I don't just think Verizon got FiOS support right, I know they did.

The VZ Direct forum is top-notch, and everyone I've dealt with at FSC was extremely knowledgeable and thoroughly helpful. I never once got the impression that Verizon was trying to deny a problem existed, or was unwilling to resolve it."

Brilliant...its very easy to support a handful of customers (oh and cheap). The problem happens when the customer base grows and support can't keep up. Watch, it will happen.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839291 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:29:26 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839273 JTRockville :
said by hobgoblin See Profile :

What makes anyone think they can get Fios support right
I don't just think Verizon got FiOS support right, I know they did.

The VZ Direct forum is top-notch, and everyone I've dealt with at FSC was extremely knowledgeable and thoroughly helpful. I never once got the impression that Verizon was trying to deny a problem existed, or was unwilling to resolve it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839273 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:24:32 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839198 hobgoblin : "I'd agree, if Verizon billing problems were only FIOS related. But their billing problems across all their products is well known and has been for years."

Their support problems have been well known in the industry for years.

What makes anyone think they can get Fios support right
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839198 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 09:02:52 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839180 TK Junk Mail :
said by AmeritecTech See Profile :

Billing for a new service is always going to have some kinks to work out. I see no pressing reason to write it off as "HURR OFFSHORING" without any evidence that this is the case.
I'd agree, if Verizon billing problems were only FIOS related. But their billing problems across all their products is well known and has been for years.
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-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18839165 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 08:54:38 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18837433 King Duck : Verizon has separate Fiber Solutions Centers (FSC) for Fios, when I was there we had 5 or 6, not sure how many now.
These are solely dedicated to Fios tech support.
Billing also now has separate centers, if we called the old centers we got transferred.

Whilst there have been gliches, Verizon are still trying very hard to get it all right.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18837433 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:55:01 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18837045 RIRWIN1983 : There are no "special call centers" all it is a normal call center that has a few rows of reps who primarly answer calls for certan products and are trained as such. I worked for the DSL side and thats how it was at our center, there was 2 rows for mac support, and 2 rows for the msn software that came with dsl. we all were trained on the dsl stuff, those 2 sets of rows just got extra traning on either mac or msn.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18837045 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 21:59:20 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18836544 TK Junk Mail :
said by TeatherWind See Profile :

Personally, I think that Verizon is also trying to be responsive to what we as consumers want in our billing and our products, and they have to many marketing people trying to push products out the door without getting buy in from supporting departments.(Billing, Tech Support, Provisioning and the like) I have seen that many times, marketing just simply doesn't understand what other groups within the company do, or they really could care less.

I know my marketing folks could care less if they can bill a product, they only want to know how they can get it out to the market, as quickly as possible.
That brings to mind 2 Dilbert cartoons I remember. The battles between marketing and engineering.
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18836544 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:40:01 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18836340 smokythebear : My understanding is that because of the numerous different services that verizon offers and because of the nature of the company structure (i.e. Since verizon is made up of numerous small companies) their billing divisions are completely different. For example, on my monthly bill, I receive three different parts, one from the FIOS TV division, then one from the FIOS data division, and one from the phone part. Then you gotta figure too that the billing with DSL is a whole different matter, and if I had a different phone service then it would be a whole different department.

The good thing though is that they have set up the "special call centers" so at least it is a step in the right direction. But as the article mentions, if there is an unresolved issue, it does become a pain.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18836340 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:09:37 EDT Re: Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18836327 TeatherWind : TCH,
While on one hand I want to agree with you. I think that a lot of companies are starting to fight internally. All of the departments are working to show a profit, so while you say out-sourced, I think that you would be amazed at how many companies have internal departments that code systems, that just don't live up to the specs that are required.

Personally, I think that Verizon is also trying to be responsive to what we as consumers want in our billing and our products, and they have to many marketing people trying to push products out the door without getting buy in from supporting departments.(Billing, Tech Support, Provisioning and the like) I have seen that many times, marketing just simply doesn't understand what other groups within the company do, or they really could care less.

I know my marketing folks could care less if they can bill a product, they only want to know how they can get it out to the market, as quickly as possible.

Verizon only leads with Fiber, it seems that half the time they are playing catch up with Cable companies. Take the mentioned Bundles, for example.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18836327 Wed, 08 Aug 2007 20:07:26 EDT Why billing is screwed up http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18835751 TK Junk Mail : Most likely the issue is that their billing systems have been outsourced(don't know about Verizon FOR SURE) to some 3rd party(probably overseas). And I have seen 1st hand how this usually works. Verizon system designers(process engineers) and project leaders spec out a system. The specs are written up and then turned over to some outsourcer who hasn't the fainest idea about the business they are writing code for. Language barriers; not enough system testers; poor training on the delivered system all conspire to deliver a system that is frequently obtuse and nearly unusable to the customer service reps.

When the customer service rep inputs some correction for billing, he thinks the job is done. But the system is often so screwed up, the end result is a bill that doesn't go away or reappears at odd moments.

Unfortunately, this is now a common occurrence for US businesses. Especially those who have outsourced their most critical systems to the lowest bid contractor. It is a penny wise, pound foolish way of doing business.
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