texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| Queue Net Neutrality Debate
Now I wait for a lot of people who know nothing about net neutrality to scream bloody murder. Instead of waiting for the government to fix your problem, call Time Warner! Every time you call, they loose money. Better yet, switch ISPs. I understand not all places have an alternative, but most do. I live in a podunk town and I have access to Time Warner, AT&T, at the AT&T lines give me access to a few other ISPs like Earthlink.
I'll give you a hint though, a network neutrality law will not solve any problems. What it will do is cause a price rise as the companies are forced to subsidize the price of the heavy users by making the light users pay more. I have not had a price increase on Road Runner service since I started it several years ago, and I don't want one to pay for people who feel they can download 24/7.
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The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state. |
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PhoenixDown
-- Wants FIOS
Premium
join:2003-06-08
Fresh Meadows, NY
clubs: 
| The trouble is many people don't have alternative broadband connections. I live in nyc and yet my only option for broadband is TWC. I hate to imagine the scenario in smaller towns.
I think the real answer to the issue is legitimate competition. If people had a legitimate second or third choice for providers, then issues like packet shaping and net neutrality will be solved via the market place. |
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deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
00000
| There is no debate. Companies will prioritize traffic based on information available to them in realtime. That means to defeat all everybody has to do is start using IPSEC and the bloody problem will solve itself. Now just try getting everybody to enable that so we can have a truly open internet again lol. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| reply to texans20
Essentially this showcases how different applications on the net have different needs. BT doesn't need a great ping. WOW does. Net Neutrality would just work at making everyone have the same ideal connection which would make it very expensive for network management. |
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deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
00000
| Actually, neutrality would be mob rule lol. whoever used the most bandwidth would (surpise surpise!) have the most bandwidth. Its communism of the internet, and we all know how successful and prosperous those communist countries turned out to be (north korea... the soviet union... etc) |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to texans20
said by texans20  :I'll give you a hint though, a network neutrality law will not solve any problems. What it will do is cause a price rise as the companies are forced to subsidize the price of the heavy users by making the light users pay more. They already do that, so NN wouldn't cause it. Everyone is paying for unlimited usage despite some people barely using their connections.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to deepblackmag
said by deepblackmag :Actually, neutrality would be mob rule lol. whoever used the most bandwidth would (surpise surpise!) have the most bandwidth. Its communism of the internet, and we all know how successful and prosperous those communist countries turned out to be (north korea... the soviet union... etc) Mob rule doesn't equal "communism". Nice red herring though.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :Essentially this showcases how different applications on the net have different needs. BT doesn't need a great ping. WOW does. Net Neutrality would just work at making everyone have the same ideal connection which would make it very expensive for network management. I'd like to see some hard facts that backup that assertion. Applying QoS based on who paid and who doesn't would actually cost more and be FAR more complex.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
00000
| Applying QOS based on who paid and who didnt is bloody PIE on a docsis network where all the users have cable modem configs pushed out by the central office. All you need to do is create one config per tier (paid vs didnt pay) and have it set a certain DSCP priority tag (or equivilant, whatever QoS they like to use). The individual modem would be responsible for tagging and the routers would just have to respect the tag itself. |
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deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
00000 | reply to bmn
As i recall, thats what the russian revolution was with the overthrow of the czar. =P |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to deepblackmag
said by deepblackmag :Applying QOS based on who paid and who didnt is bloody PIE on a docsis network where all the users have cable modem configs pushed out by the central office. You are assuming the USERS are paying for QoS, in which case that would be VERY easy. For example, my business class cable connection is set with a higher QoS priority than the folks using normal residential connections.
However, talking about something TOTALLY different. The expense and complexity of setting up QoS based on whether internet site or service X or Y paid for their customers to have better QoS to their site/service is where the problem is. Your QoS rules become more complex if you say prioritize VoIP provider X's traffic and not VoIP provider Y's traffic instead of doing what would make more sense and just creating one QoS class for ALL VoIP. Doing that would cost far less in time and would be far less complex. And most routers already have the ability to prioritize based on traffic classes in their software, so there is no additional expense to the provider.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to deepblackmag
said by deepblackmag :As i recall, thats what the russian revolution was with the overthrow of the czar. =P Yeah, but if use that, then what about the French Revolution ? The American Revolution ? South American revolutions ? They all were basically mob rule.
And technically democracy is basically mob rule, albeit it a tad bit more, how shall we say, restrained.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
00000 | All of those are just examples of terrorist activities lol =P |
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deepblackmag
join:2004-12-27
00000 | reply to bmn
You are assuming that services would pay for QoS lol. I frankly dont see that happening, meaning the only viable target for billing is the user. Thus my comment stands. |
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texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| reply to PhoenixDown
said by PhoenixDown :The trouble is many people don't have alternative broadband connections. I live in nyc and yet my only option for broadband is TWC. I hate to imagine the scenario in smaller towns. I think the real answer to the issue is legitimate competition. If people had a legitimate second or third choice for providers, then issues like packet shaping and net neutrality will be solved via the market place. You are 100% correct. Thus, we don't need to patch the broken system by net neutrality, lets drop some of the stupid regulations to foster the free market.
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The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
| reply to deepblackmag
said by deepblackmag :You are assuming that services would pay for QoS lol. I frankly dont see that happening, meaning the only viable target for billing is the user. Thus my comment stands. Providers, however, are not looking to bill the consumer, though. They want a cut of the service providers take (Youtube, etc.).
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to texans20
Duh, the price is already higher than it should be for the average user... maybe too low for 5% of users and too high for the rest. Cable and Phone companies make more money that way. And since people are willing to pay that much and there is little competition, they aren't gonna lower it. |
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texans20
Weapons of Masturbation
Premium
join:2002-09-28
Texas!
clubs:
| said by axus :Duh, the price is already higher than it should be for the average user... maybe too low for 5% of users and too high for the rest. Cable and Phone companies make more money that way. And since people are willing to pay that much and there is little competition, they aren't gonna lower it. How do you know it's too high? Do you have some sort of insider information that shows they are pulling in this huge profit, or do you just believe the prices are too high? Do you believe these communication companies should not make a nice profit?
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The true patriot is motivated by a sense of responsibility, and out of self interest -- for himself, his family, and the future of his country -- to resist government abuse of power. He rejects the notion that patriotism means obedience to the state. |
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zerog
join:2002-02-10
Dallas, TX | reply to deepblackmag
didn't see Big Red anywhere in here?
How is commie China doing nowadays? Aren't they buying up Africa and South America? |
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John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
·CenturyLink
| said by zerog :How is commie China doing nowadays? Aren't they buying up Africa and South America? They are buying up the U.S. of A.
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A is A |
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