mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI
| Doing some legal work, need to see if an email was received.
I do PC support for a law firm and they tasked with tracking an email. They would like AT&T to see if a customer received an email from another legal firm on a certain date.
Who would I work with to go through mail logs (if any)? The AT&T customer is the one requesting that we prove/disprove that they received an email at their sbcglobal.net account. |
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Zaber
When all are gone, there shall be none
join:2000-06-08
Cleveland, OH
clubs:
 ·Expedient
·XO COMMUNICATIONS
·AT&T Midwest
| Not being an expert in this field, and not even being qualified to play one on TV, I do not think there is anyone in AT&T that would help you without a warrant/recipient's written permission that would help you. Even with the recipient's permission I would suspect that you will be told to move along. |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL | reply to mtmra70
You need a warrant/subpoena to even get AT&T to see if they can do something like that. |
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI | reply to Zaber
Actually, it is the recipient (their lawyer) requesting the info.
So to reword it, how does an AT&T customer request help with proving/disproving that they received an email? |
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI
| reply to Dennis
said by Dennis  :You need a warrant/subpoena to even get AT&T to see if they can do something like that. Not if the customer wants it  |
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justbits
More fiber than ATT can handle
Premium
join:2003-01-08
Chicago, IL
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to mtmra70
The AT&T customer should try to get some assistance from the party that they claim they were supposed to have received email from. That will help in narrowing down a time frame for when the email was supposedly delivered by the sender.
If the sending party isn't cooperating, AT&T/Yahoo should have email server logs that they can search through for the AT&T user account in question. But, their retention policy for such information is not public, so they may deny they have it or even that exists. As far as even getting AT&T/Yahoo to dig that deep to get you the information, you're probably going to need to address AT&T/Yahoo through a lawyer. I doubt they'll do this for just any random person requesting a log of all email sent to their address. |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
Host:
Chicago
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| reply to mtmra70
said by mtmra70 :So to reword it, how does an AT&T customer request help with proving/disproving that they received an email? I know of no way, I don't belive it's a function/service that even exists unless the account is being specifially monitored because of a warrent.
Email is not certified mail.
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI
| I guess I'll explain a little more about what is happening.
'Law Firm A' says they sent an email on 'Date1'
'Client' says they did not receive it
'Law Firm A' sent another on 'Date2', which 'Client' received.
'Client' has a lawyer from 'Law Firm B' and is requesting AT&T to browse through their logs to see if they can find any record of receiving the email on 'Date1'.
So really, wouldnt it be a simple search through logs for a specific date? I have the receivers email address and the senders domain. It really isnt difficult, its just WHO to contact. |
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI | One other thing, if anyone has a link to an AT&T policy stating that they will not/do not provide logs, this would be helpful also. |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL | reply to mtmra70
I think the point is more that they never say they do log it. |
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI | But who can I talk to to get them to say that? Should I post in direct? |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
Host:
Chicago
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| said by mtmra70 :But who can I talk to to get them to say that? Should I post in direct? Sure, if you think they can help....or you could read the TOS:
»edit.client.yahoo.com/cspcommon/···page=tos
quote:
Limitation of Liability.
Under no circumstances will either AT&T or Yahoo! be liable in any way for any Content, including but not limited to any errors or omissions in any Content or any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of the use of any Content posted, emailed, transmitted or otherwise made available via the Service.
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My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.
Mainegirl and my Beer Review's |
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI | That just tells me you can sue AT&T.
I guess I will try direct. |
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Dennis
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-26
Algonquin, IL
·AT&T Yahoo
Host:
Chicago
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| section 22, sub section 22, part ii
quote:
AT&T, YAHOO! AND THEIR SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES, OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, AGENTS, PARTNERS AND LICENSORS MAKE NO WARRANTY THAT (i) THE SERVICE AND/OR SOFTWARE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, (ii) THE SERVICE AND/OR SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, SECURE, OR ERROR-FREE (FOR EXAMPLE BUT WITHOUT LIMITATION, AT&T YAHOO! DOES NOT WARRANT THAT YOU WILL ALWAYS RECEIVE EMAILS ADDRESSED TO YOU), (iii) THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM THE USE OF THE SERVICE AND/OR SOFTWARE WILL BE ACCURATE OR RELIABLE, (iv) THE QUALITY OF ANY PRODUCTS, SERVICES, INFORMATION, OR OTHER MATERIAL PURCHASED OR OBTAINED BY YOU THROUGH THE SERVICE AND/OR SOFTWARE WILL MEET YOUR EXPECTATIONS, AND (v) ANY ERRORS IN THE SERVICE AND/OR SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED.
I really believe that should answer your question.
--
My Blog. Because I desperately need the acknowledgement of others.
Mainegirl and my Beer Review's |
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI
| Actually, it doesnt. Again, that is telling me that they wont be held liable.
What I am looking for is PROOF (via logs) if an email was received by AT&T. If AT&T cant find reference to a particular email, that is perfectly fine. The AT&T customer's lawyer would just like some info saying if they did or did not receive it. |
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Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Brownsburg, IN | reply to mtmra70
I doubt anyone at AT&T would be willing to help you without a subpoena. It shouldn't be hard for the law firm to subpoena AT&T for the records. |
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hereagain
@sbc.com | reply to mtmra70
this is probably the direct number you are looking for...
1-877-722-3755 |
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mtmra70
Premium
join:2001-03-22
Portage, MI | Just talked with the customers lawyer and he would be willing to provide a subpoena.
Where does that number ring to? |
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nwrickert
sand groper
Premium,MVM
join:2004-09-04
Geneva, IL
 ·AT&T U-Verse
·AT&T Midwest
| If the "Message-Id:" is known (that's part of a header line), then request all information on that message from both AT&T and Yahoo. The AT&T servers are running sendmail, which does log that information. I'm not sure whether Yahoo's software logs it.
That would be about the best you could do.
If message-id is not known, then you would need to give the envelope sender (return-path), the envelope recipient, and the approximate time of day. The AT&T logs corresponding to that should also have the message-id and the report of passing it along to yahoo. |
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Old_Grouch
Don't just sit there silly DO something
Premium
join:2004-05-26
Greenwood, IN
clubs:
·AT&T Midwest
| reply to mtmra70
Let me offer a different set of thoughts.
First, neither AT&T nor Yahoo! will likely admit to having logs to the level of granularity that you are talking about because it sets them up to provide files and testimony in a whole lot of cases. It would also open them to searching back-up tapes created on or after the date of transmission (Ollie North would testify to that one).
AT&T (Indiana Bell, Ameritech, SBC and AT&T) have long had record retention rules and they try to adhere to them. When files are no longer required to be held..they are disposed of for exactly this reason. I have testified on behalf of one of those mentioned companies about records in my care & custody and how records were disposed of.
Second, either at&t or Yahoo! would have to have your friend's copy of his/her message to get header information that they could pull data from to tell them where to begin their search. If your friend had the message to provide that data, you wouldn't be asking.
Third, the sending law firm can initiate an investigation with their e-mail "post office". Again, keep in mind they would have to have a copy of the sent message with header information so their post office company would know where to begin their search. And, their search would have numerous dead ends since they would (MAYBE) be able to show receipt from the law firm and delivery to some intervening transport or mail store service. Which would result in a new inquiry and etc etc etc. However, the first call would be from firm A to their e-mail provider.
Consider the paper mail analogy - - Law firm A put a letter into an envelope and dropped it into the USPS' blue box. Days, weeks or months later, they want to know for certain that it did or did not get delivered. The intended recipient claims it was not received. Whatcha gonna do? The post office has logs showing how many things came from which blue boxes but without a unique identifier to associate with that single letter (registered mail or whatever) then they ain't gonna know what went where.
Back to the 'puter scenario. The header information is not merely from and to names. They use serial numbers to identify and track messages. If they don't have the message's unique identifier, all involved are likely SOL.
As to where either AT&T or Yahoo! accepts legal service....I think your friend or their attorney are the wrong end of the question.
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At Team Discovery we know how to get more outta that danged 'puter of yours! |
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