nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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Alexandria, VA
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| reply to hobgoblin
Re: Pay per Usuage
said by hobgoblin  :The difference between your Gym and amusement park analogy is that you have to be present to ride the rides or lift the weights. Most of the Bandwidth hogs....are setting up huge queues of data that they never could in a 100 years utilize or watch and then leaving for work or going to bed. 1) you're making a huge assumption about the never using/watching; 2) you're splitting hairs on the "being present". But, whatever - clearly anyone that wants to use their connection for more than casual web surfing or email is going to be in the wrong in your eyes.
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bmn
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join:2001-03-15
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| reply to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin :However it makes no sense. It makes perfect sense to people who know what they are talking about...
If i have a 10mb connection it does not mean that I have to max the whole thing out 24/7 just because I am paying X dollars for it. No, it doesn't mean you HAVE to max it out... You don't have to do anything.
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bmn
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| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :The TOS overrides the simplified description you give of what you contracted for. Than that means the ISP is failing to fullfil its part of the contract or that portion of the ToS is void since it contradicts the contract.
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hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
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join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
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| reply to nixen
The difference between your Gym and amusement park analogy is that you have to be present to ride the rides or lift the weights.
Most of the Bandwidth hogs....are setting up huge queues of data that they never could in a 100 years utilize or watch and then leaving for work or going to bed.
Hob
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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Alexandria, VA
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| reply to TKJunkMail
said by TKJunkMail :said by nixen :said by hobgoblin :If i have a 10mb connection it does not mean that I have to max the whole thing out 24/7 just because I am paying X dollars for it. No, but you're getting less value if you don't. When you go to an all you can eat restaurant do you stay 6 hours and eat until you throw up? Because that is the same logic. Yeah, that's even a valid comparison. 
How about we try again? Maybe you might understand amusement parks (I know, doubtful, as you've never struck me as the sort of person capable of understanding the concept of "amusement")? If one goes to an amusement park that charges a steep, flat-fee for the entire day (e.g. Six Flags, Busch Gardens, etc.) rather than charging per ride, it's likely that the ticket-buyer is going to try to ride as many of the rides as possible while there rather than just sitting on a bench or enjoying the economically-priced and delicious foods. Or is it your assertion that, by doing so, they are cheating the park operators out of money?
Ok... How about memberships with a gym like Gold's or Bally's (again, probably well outside your experience)? Again, one generally pays a flat, monthly rate rather than a per-visit (or per-machine or per-rep or per-weight lifted) rate. If I go daily to the gym am I maximizing the value of my membership or am I just ripping off the gym's ownership by being a gym-glutton?
Don't bother to answer. Your history makes it clear what you'd say, any way.
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TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
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| reply to nixen
said by nixen :said by hobgoblin :If i have a 10mb connection it does not mean that I have to max the whole thing out 24/7 just because I am paying X dollars for it. No, but you're getting less value if you don't. When you go to an all you can eat restaurant do you stay 6 hours and eat until you throw up? Because that is the same logic.
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nixen
Rockin' the Boxen
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Alexandria, VA
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| reply to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin :If i have a 10mb connection it does not mean that I have to max the whole thing out 24/7 just because I am paying X dollars for it. No, but you're getting less value if you don't. |
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TKJunkMail
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Avalon, NJ
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| reply to xo
said by xo :When you purchase an X Mbps pipe from a provider, you are paying for the ability to download up to the X gigabytes that the pipe can provide. If you want to go over the X gigabytes that you pipe at X Mbps can provide, you need to pay for a pipe at Y Mbps. The TOS overrides the simplified description you give of what you contracted for. You don't get to download 24x7 at the full bandwidth available. And 24x7 has NEVER been in any agreement with any ISP.
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hobgoblin
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join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
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| reply to xo
said by xo :When you purchase an X Mbps pipe from a provider, you are paying for the ability to download up to the X gigabytes that the pipe can provide. If you want to go over the X gigabytes that you pipe at X Mbps can provide, you need to pay for a pipe at Y Mbps. Good Job at copying a previous post and depositing it here.
However it makes no sense.
If i have a 10mb connection it does not mean that I have to max the whole thing out 24/7 just because I am paying X dollars for it.
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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xo
join:2007-06-15
Perry, FL
| reply to hobgoblin
When you purchase an X Mbps pipe from a provider, you are paying for the ability to download up to the X gigabytes that the pipe can provide. If you want to go over the X gigabytes that you pipe at X Mbps can provide, you need to pay for a pipe at Y Mbps. |
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kfsutops
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join:2002-08-19
Brandon, FL
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| reply to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin :I think at some point its going to have to happen. I know I am getting sick of the "I pay my $35 bucks so I will download all I can" brigade as I am sure are the ISP's. Hob Unfortunately, you are probably correct. The cell phone industry can do what they want as long as there is not competition.
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hobgoblin
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Orchard Park, NY
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| reply to kfsutops
said by kfsutops :You and I both know that is never going to happen. The days of AOL charging per minute (somewhat the same) have been gone a long time ago. Competition in market place made sure of that. The US likes the one price for all model. Look at the cell phone industry. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that is the reality. I think at some point its going to have to happen. I know I am getting sick of the "I pay my $35 bucks so I will download all I can" brigade as I am sure are the ISP's.
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
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kfsutops
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Brandon, FL
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| reply to hobgoblin
You and I both know that is never going to happen. The days of AOL charging per minute (somewhat the same) have been gone a long time ago. Competition in market place made sure of that.
The US likes the one price for all model. Look at the cell phone industry.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but that is the reality. |
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hobgoblin
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Orchard Park, NY
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| reply to FiL
said by FiL :Explain... because I don't see very many people using Dial up where broadband is offered. People are sharing lots of video and music now more so then ever. How is the average usage no where near what many of us here at BBR speak of? Because the average user uses his broadband to surf quicker.
Just because you are sharing music and video, the average user is not....He may look at a few youtube vids....but its no where near the 100's of Gigs that the few download.
Lots of people have lives!
Hob
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"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson
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bmn
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Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
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| reply to hobgoblin
Pay per usage is already in place...
When you purchase an X Mbps pipe from a provider, you are paying for the ability to download up to the X gigabytes that the pipe can provide. If you want to go over the X gigabytes that you pipe at X Mbps can provide, you need to pay for a pipe at Y Mbps.
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TKJunkMail
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Avalon, NJ
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| reply to FiL
said by FiL :Explain... because I don't see very many people using Dial up where broadband is offered. People are sharing lots of video and music now more so then ever. How is the average usage no where near what many of us here at BBR speak of? Because 90% of users don't download music and videos - either free ones or for pay ones.
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FiL
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join:2005-08-16
Silver Spring, MD | reply to hobgoblin
Explain...
because I don't see very many people using Dial up where broadband is offered. People are sharing lots of video and music now more so then ever. How is the average usage no where near what many of us here at BBR speak of? |
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hobgoblin
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Orchard Park, NY
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| reply to kaila
said by kaila :That's fine, as long as ISP's are aware that the average usage for all users will keep rising, and structure any over usage fees/penalties up front. If they can't or choose not to keep up with bandwidth demands, they'll find themselves nailing an ever greater percentage of users with usage fees, ultimately pricing themselves out of the market. The AVERAGE Usage is no where near what the members of this site feel it is. Its the posters that continually brag about what they download in a month that need to bring down their usage or pony up and pay for it and the network upgrades only they are demanding.
Hob |
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kaila
join:2000-10-11
Lincolnshire, IL
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| reply to hobgoblin
That's fine, as long as ISP's are aware that the average usage for all users will keep rising, and structure any over usage fees/penalties up front. If they can't or choose not to keep up with bandwidth demands, they'll find themselves nailing an ever greater percentage of users with usage fees, ultimately pricing themselves out of the market. |
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travelguy
join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM
| reply to hobgoblin
said by hobgoblin :I have always thought that customers should pay for exactly how much they use. Those who download 24/7 from Newsgroups and p2p should end up paying their proportion of the cost instead of moderate users subsidizing them. Thus if you want to download HD Movies and TV shows....You can as long as you want to bear the costs. What you may be overlooking is that the internet is a classic example of a business that has very high fixed costs and very low variable costs. Billing by the byte is analogous to billing by the minute for phone calls. It's a business model that is rapidly becoming obsolete.
What ISPs will need to do is come up with a model that looks at total bandwidth used over a period of time (to cover the average size of the pipe they need to contract for) as well as some form of peak time billing to cover the margins. |
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