TK Junk Mail
Go ahead, make my day
Premium
join:2002-03-03
Margate City, NJ
clubs:
 ·Comcast
|  Public utilities should stay out of private competition
»www.chattanoogan.com/articles/ar···1695.asp
Construction of the system would be paid for with revenue bonds. Taxpayer supported utilities shouldn't be in competition with private companies. And if their revenue predictions don't work out, the taxpayers get stuck with the bill thru higher electric rates.
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA | When the private companies fail or refuse to provide or deliver the best services I see no problem with the gov jumping in. If anything this might force the private companies in that area to stepup the services and improve their technology. |
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pnh102
Reptiles Are Cuddly And Pretty
Premium
join:2002-05-02
Mount Airy, MD
| reply to TK Junk Mail
said by TK Junk Mail  :And ifwhen their revenue predictions don't work out, the taxpayers get stuck with the bill thru higher electric rates. Fixed it for you.
This is what happened back in 2001 when Tacoma's utility company raised rates by 50% to cover the cost of their broadband network.
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Only SHATNER is Kirk. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| reply to chemaupr
One of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century linguistically was when communists started calling themselves socialists and socialists started calling themselves centrists.
Businesses price their services based on the market. You inject an artifically low service(because of taxpayer subsidization) you're not helping the marketplace. People advocate gov't intervention because of a complete misunderstanding of how the system works. |
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ShadezeRO
join:2006-04-24
Fort Lauderdale, FL | reply to chemaupr
Damn right.
If it doesn't work out, I'm sure some larger company will buy it and make the service worthless. ATT might even offer the whole 6.0 on that fiber (whoop de-effin do).
/sarcasm |
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psychosmurf
Premium
join:2002-06-26
Maysville, KY
·Limestone Cable
| reply to TK Junk Mail
The only upside is that EPB already runs a pretty successful telecom branch using strictly fiber. Also, if you need a good example, take a look at Dalton Utilities, they seem to be pretty successful in the utilities world. |
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
| reply to bogey780
no one is saying to price it below market. But if the industry do not wants to give you the latest technology, because they wont make money (which seems reasonable) what the local or state government should do? Just sit back and way for F** ATT or Verizon to change their mind. This is going to take some both private and government sectors. If there was a company willing to provide the latest services sure gov participation will be counter productive and a waste. But this is not the case. The companies are telling you what do you NEED and WANT.
And how the system works???? Tell you how, they want to maximize profits. Chattanooga will be a lost for decades if they deploy FTTH. They DO NOT CARE ABOUT THEM. So what they will do, suck up the dsl and crappy cable? They could because that is what the SYSTEM is telling them to do. But they can tell the SYSTEM this is not what we want. Sure the whole project can go wrong, but it can also work.
But those that wait for the SYSTEM to WORK, those are the one that do not understand how it work. |
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Emiya
join:2006-03-30
Southington, OH
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :One of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century linguistically was when communists started calling themselves socialists and socialists started calling themselves centrists. Quoted for truth. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| reply to chemaupr
'no one is saying to price it below market.'
Of course they are. If they priced it at fair market value they'd be more expensive than everyone else and the one thing I've learned from this site is people demand bandwidth for cheaper than it costs to provide it.
Why don't you demand the gov't run auto-dealers, grocery stores, and other assorted businesses? They cost far more than broadband and are more necessary than it. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to TK Junk Mail
why?
is it "the taxpayers will be stuck with the bill if it fails"?
is it "it's not a level playing field for the [sarcasm] poor, struggling [/sarcasm] incumbents"?
NO, of course not, it's the "incumbents and their supporters hate competition of any sort and will promulgate whatever FUD is necessary to stop it"! |
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jc100
join:2002-04-10
·RoadRunner Cable
edit:
August 18th, @05:12PM
| reply to chemaupr
Well as long as not federal money. States want something, states should pay for it. Plain and simple. Taxpayers from NY or Ohio shouldn't be footing the bill for TN to have this service. If thats that not case, I got no problem with local dollars being spent on local issues. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA | reply to nasadude
NASA is a gov't monopoly. How's that been working out for the past 30 years? |
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psychosmurf
Premium
join:2002-06-26
Maysville, KY
·Limestone Cable
| reply to jc100
said by jc100 :Well as long as not federal money. States want something, states should pay for it. Plain and simple. Taxpayers from NY or Ohio shouldn't be footing the bill for TN to have this service. If thats that case, I got no problem with local dollars being spent on local issues. Its actually not even really state money. EPB is owned by the city of Chattanooga, so it would really be city money. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
 ·Packet8
·Cox HSI
edit:
August 18th, @03:14PM
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :NASA is a gov't monopoly. How's that been working out for the past 30 years? We are still doing science in space and haven't filled space with tons of garbage... Privatize the whole shebang and the science evaporates because it isn't profitable and the orbital space around the earth will be an even worse mess.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
edit:
August 18th, @03:41PM
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :One of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century linguistically was when communists started calling themselves socialists and socialists started calling themselves centrists. And fascists started calling themselves conservatives... Forgot that one.
Businesses price their services based on the market. That assumes there is competition for there to be a "market". If there is only one provider, the market doesn't exist. No competition, no free market.
You inject an artifically low service(because of taxpayer subsidization) you're not helping the marketplace. That's a load of hogwash. It forces the existing players to reduce the price of their service to a price point more consistent with what services costs to deliver. No company is entitled to a profit margin, they are suppose to have to work for it, unfortunately, most companies forget that fact.
People advocate gov't intervention because of a complete misunderstanding of how the system works. You have a PhD in voodoonomics ?  Seriously, when providers fail to deliver services, there is absolutely no reason for the people of a locality or region not to decide to deliver it on their own... Okay, except for extremist thinking. The idea that people in regions should never get services because company X and company Y say so is ridiculous.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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nasadude
join:2001-10-05
Rockville, MD
·Comcast
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :NASA is a gov't monopoly. How's that been working out for the past 30 years? is that a reply?
an attempt at humor?
the only thing you could think to say?
it's hard for me to tell, since it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
thanks for your contribution, though. |
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :'no one is saying to price it below market.' Why don't you demand the gov't run auto-dealers, grocery stores, and other assorted businesses? They cost far more than broadband and are more necessary than it. Becouse ther is no need...ther are many dealer, grocery stores and other assorted business providing the service. That is the point!!!! In this case no company in there area want provide them FTTH, so they are moving fwd. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
Premium
join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to chemaupr
said by chemaupr :But those that wait for the SYSTEM to WORK, those are the one that do not understand how it work. How is that SunRocket working for you. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Covington, LA
| reply to bmn
Actually fascists were always a nationalistic branch of socialism. Some fascists did call themselves conservative...others called themselves other things. But it didn't rewrite the word the same way socialists did with liberal.
A lot of conservatives that are decidedly not fascists still are around.
'That assumes there is competition for there to be a "market". If there is only one provider, the market doesn't exist. No competition, no free market.'
The market is small but there still is a market.
'No company is entitled to a profit margin, they are suppose to have to work for it, unfortunately, most companies forget that fact.'
There is no way to make a profit on selling 20$ for 19$. When you're working against someone who can always undercut you, you're not going to do well. If the undercutting is through artificial means then the market suffers. |
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bmn
? ? ?
Premium,ExMod 2003-06
join:2001-03-15
hiatus
·Packet8
·Cox HSI
| said by bogey780 :Actually fascists were always a nationalistic branch of socialism. Some fascists did call themselves conservative...others called themselves other things. But it didn't rewrite the word the same way socialists did with liberal. I disagree... Socialism and Fascism are vastly different. Socialism is basically a lighter version of communism (small C, not the Soviet/Chinese Communism). On the other hand, Fascists are extremist with respect to capitalism, believing that the interests of business should be the end all and be all of government... Much like present day conservatives, seeking to advance the interest of business first.
A lot of conservatives that are decidedly not fascists still are around. That number is shrinking constantly... Barry Goldwater style conservatism is a dying thing.
'That assumes there is competition for there to be a "market". If there is only one provider, the market doesn't exist. No competition, no free market.'
The market is small but there still is a market. With one provider, that can't be a market in the strictest sense of the term. Without competition, the sole player dictates price without the affects of competition.
'No company is entitled to a profit margin, they are suppose to have to work for it, unfortunately, most companies forget that fact.'
There is no way to make a profit on selling 20$ for 19$. Of course not, but without evidence showing that is what is going to happen, it can't be used to determine the validity of the muni model. To presuppose that undercutting will take place is to jump the gun. The costs of transit bandwidth to a telco or MSO are the same price that a muni operation would pay. Equipment and labor will cost the same to. The only way that undercutting could take place is with tax subsidization and so far, that isn't a widespread phenomenon, more the exception to the rule than anything.
When you're working against someone who can always undercut you, you're not going to do well. If the undercutting is through artificial means then the market suffers. There are easy ways to prevent that from happening... The best model is the Utopia model, where the last mile infrastructure is an open network on which everyone can provide services if they want, even telcos and MSOs. Access providers then provide retail access to the network for businesses, small/home offices and ordinary consumers.
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Prove it...
Save the Internet Time (NTP) service, use the pool. |
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