TKJunkMail
Enjoy the sun
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join:2002-03-03
Avalon, NJ
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
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| reply to bmn
Re: Public utilities should stay out of private competition
said by bmn  :said by bogey780 :Actually fascists were always a nationalistic branch of socialism. I disagree... Socialism and Fascism are vastly different. Socialism is basically a lighter version of communism (small C, not the Soviet/Chinese Communism). On the other hand, Fascists are extremist with respect to capitalism, believing that the interests of business should be the end all and be all of government... Some should have told Adolph Hitler, the leader of the National Socialist Party in Germany, the grandaddy of fascist government.
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bmn
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join:2001-03-15
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1 edit | said by TKJunkMail :Some should have told Adolph Hitler, the leader of the National Socialist Party in Germany, the grandaddy of fascist government. You want to try again... The founding-father of Fascism was Italian... Mussolini.
As well, if you do enough research, you will find that there are some major differences between Fascism and Nazism.
But if we want to argue specifics, then it could be said that conservatism has more in common with corporatism than fascism (corporatism's brother/sister/cousin/whatever).
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| There was little difference between Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. The whole corporatism was pretty much textbook socialism with a quirk. They merged corporate ownership with state control so the state was the owner of all industry by fiat. That's prety much socialism. The difference is they went with a central strongman instead of "the people" having the power. The chief difference between Nazism and Faschism was Nazism was racially centered. |
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bmn
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hiatus
1 edit | said by bogey780 :There was little difference between Mussolini's Italy and Hitler's Germany. The whole corporatism was pretty much textbook socialism with a quirk. They merged corporate ownership with state control so the state was the owner of all industry by fiat. That's prety much socialism. No, because under socialism, there are no longer corporate owners. Socialism is total control of the economic system by a government, ie the government owns all industry. Corporatism is where government serves the interests of business at the expense of the citizen. Major difference.
The chief difference between Nazism and Faschism was Nazism was racially centered. Correct, however there are other significant difference. For example, there is the role of the class system which differs greatly according the the tenants of the two systems. Fascism believes in a strong class system and the tenant of the meritocracy. Nazism sought to destroy the concept of the class system, unifying the populace under their race, ignoring economic factors.
The ideas are similar, but the differences warrant a separation.
edit:typo
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grandpinaple
join:2006-01-03
New York, NY
1 edit | reply to bogey780
Funny you should say that I happen to remember a government protected monopoly that gave us the best communications network in the world. Funny how these break away pieces of that company are once again government protected monopolies. The only way for that to stop is through government action on behalf of tax payers. If there are serious tax payer objections to this project they will surface and the project would stop. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| reply to bmn
'No, because under socialism, there are no longer corporate owners. Socialism is total control of the economic system by a government, ie the government owns all industry. Corporatism is where government serves the interests of business at the expense of the citizen. Major difference.'
6 or half dozen. Same thing. Under fascism the state would control who was in charge of what. Gov't and corporations became linked. The difference is really just semantical. |
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Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX
| reply to bmn
quote:
Fascists are extremist with respect to capitalism, believing that the interests of business should be the end all and be all of government... Much like present day conservatives, seeking to advance the interest of business first.
Hmmmm...
I think you have it backwards. In a fascist society, the interests of the state are expected to be the main concern of business; not the other way around.
From Webster's:
Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
- fas·cist /-shist also -sist/ noun or adjective, often capitalized
- fas·cis·tic /fa-'shis-tik also -'sis-/ adjective, often capitalized
- fas·cis·ti·cal·ly /-ti-k(&-)lE/ adverb, often capitalized
From Wikipedia:
Fascism is an authoritarian political ideology (generally tied to a mass movement) that considers individual and other societal interests subordinate to the needs of the state, and seeks to forge a type of national unity, usually based on, but not limited to, ethnic, cultural, or racial attributes.
From PublicEye.org:
Fascism is a form of extreme right-wing ideology that celebrates the nation or the race as an organic community transcending all other loyalties. It emphasizes a myth of national or racial rebirth after a period of decline or destruction. To this end, fascism calls for a "spiritual revolution" against signs of moral decay such as individualism and materialism, and seeks to purge "alien" forces and groups that threaten the organic community. Fascism tends to celebrate masculinity, youth, mystical unity, and the regenerative power of violence. |
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bmn
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join:2001-03-15
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| said by Thespis :I think you have it backwards. In a fascist society, the interests of the state are expected to be the main concern of business; not the other way around. In other words, business running the country... What I was trying to say but clearly f*cked up on the delivery...
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bmn
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| reply to bogey780
said by bogey780 :'No, because under socialism, there are no longer corporate owners. Socialism is total control of the economic system by a government, ie the government owns all industry. Corporatism is where government serves the interests of business at the expense of the citizen. Major difference.' 6 or half dozen. Same thing. Under fascism the state would control who was in charge of what. Gov't and corporations became linked. The difference is really just semantical. When we come to the point where it gets to semantics we can just let the topic be... I think the best people for this type of discussion are the poli-sci folks. I don't know about you, but it is an area that I didn't spend a lot of time on...
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
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join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to bmn
said by bmn : The best model is the Utopia model, Utopia is pissing away tax payers money and will never turn a profit. Government knows how to tax and spend not run a business. |
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Thespis
I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
Premium
join:2004-08-03
Keller, TX
1 edit | reply to bmn
quote:
In other words, business running the country...
No, in the words I used, the state running the businesses for the good of the state.
Communism, Socialism, and Fascism rely on all facets of society being devoted to the good of the government. Capitalism thrives with less government intervention, but left unregulated will sacrifice ethics for profit. It's not perfect, but it is open to change and improvement.
I don't really have a problem with municipalities getting into the broadband business if the people want it. It's their money... |
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FairMarektWisher
@frontiernet.net
| reply to bogey780
said by Of course they are. If they priced it at fair market value they'd be more expensive than everyone else and the one thing I've learned from this site is people demand bandwidth for cheaper than it costs to provide it.[/BQUOTE :
How is it that the U.S. have the slowest broadband access compared to the rest of the developed countries? It's not fair market when there's only two or three high speed service providers in any market. From where I'm at there's either crappy Frontier, Comcast, or Direct TV.
I wish there were more competition so the govt. won't have to get involve. But until there is, I'll welcome any the govt. |
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bogey780
join:2004-03-19
Here
| 'How is it that the U.S. have the slowest broadband access compared to the rest of the developed countries?'
Because of artificial gov't intervention.
If America wanted to be the number one auto-producer we could be with the gov't mandating cars be made and subsidizing the cost. Hell, China became a major steel producer briefly during the Great Leap Forward. But the growth was artificial and unhealthy. It was also wasteful and counterproductive and ultimately fell flat once it reached a level of effort that could not be sustained.
Americans have the broadband they're willing to pay for. |
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chemaupr
join:2005-06-06
Alexandria, VA
| reply to batterup
said by batterup :said by chemaupr :But those that wait for the SYSTEM to WORK, those are the one that do not understand how it work. How is that SunRocket working for you. You are a funny dude... Not sure what SR has to do with this. But they were one of many companies that tried to provide a service on a very competetive market. And they fail to succeed. Your pall Verizon (Bell) was heavly build by US gov subsidies and they still do receive money from the goverment via the USF fund... and you know what they have done with it. In their favor at least they are moving fwd with FTTH. |
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batterup
I Can Not Tell A Lie.
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join:2003-02-06
Netcong, NJ
clubs:
·Verizon Online DSL
| said by chemaupr : Your pall Verizon (Bell) was heavly build by US gov subsidies and they still do receive money from the goverment via the USF fund... Lies, damn Teletruth lies. The Bell System was built with investor money. The USF goes to independents 10 to 1. There was no USF for the Bell System before the leeches broke it up by spouting the same B.S. that is being spouted today.
Enjoy your third world communication system that is what you deserve.. |
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bmn
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| reply to batterup
said by batterup :said by bmn : The best model is the Utopia model, Utopia is pissing away tax payers money and will never turn a profit. Government knows how to tax and spend not run a business. You have yet to prove that statement with a single shred of data...
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batterup
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Netcong, NJ
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·Verizon Online DSL
1 edit | said by bmn :said by batterup :said by bmn : The best model is the Utopia model, Utopia is pissing away tax payers money and will never turn a profit. Government knows how to tax and spend not run a business. You have yet to prove that statement with a single shred of data... Yes I did. I'm not going to post it again. |
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bmn
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1 edit | said by batterup :Yes I did. I'm not going to post it again. You have never provided balance sheets or any other financial data to prove that it "will never return a profit." Additionally, because you don't possess a magical crystal ball and are not psychic (because psychics are crap), you can not state Utopia "will never return a profit" with any amount of certainty.
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j cox
Premium
join:2007-09-12
USA
| reply to chemaupr
EPB Public Meeting
A turn out with standing room only. 24 folks & local businesses in favor and 1 Tennessee Cable Television Association director not in favor...not informed either! She seemed to miss the fact that fiber to the home is more than cable TV. Fiber technology will empower us to fully use tele-medicine and distance learning not to mention the benefits EPB customers will enjoy from our electric company in the years to come. More power to EPB for making investments into the growth and wellbeing of our community. |
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j cox
Premium
join:2007-09-12
USA | reply to keithps
You are so right on!!! Hope to see you at the City Council Meeting next Tuesday. Were you at the EPB Public Meeting? |
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