Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested in http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18925556 en Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:04:19 EDT Sat, 28 Nov 2009 03:04:19 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18940249 anon :
said by BF69 See Profile :

said by StraitShoot See Profile :

If someone is stupid enough NOT to tie up their WiFi with a Password, they shouldn't care if someone else can "steal" the signal. Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded.
So if I forget to lock my door I DESERVE to get robbed? The robber shouldn't be punished because it would be just rewarding my ineptness?
If you left your door unlocked and threw your stuff in the street, then yes I might take it. Just keep your wifi behind your un-locked door and I will not touch it, but extent it to my car and it is mine to take or use.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18940249 Fri, 24 Aug 2007 10:35:23 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18940257 anon :
said by mustang03282 See Profile :

said by BF69 See Profile :

said by StraitShoot See Profile :

If someone is stupid enough NOT to tie up their WiFi with a Password, they shouldn't care if someone else can "steal" the signal. Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded.
So if I forget to lock my door I DESERVE to get robbed? The robber shouldn't be punished because it would be just rewarding my ineptness?
no but if you put something out in the trash should you have me arrested if i take it or better yet if you leave your front door wide open and the wind kicks up and 100$ blows off your desk out your front door and ends up flying through my open window and lands in my house am i a theif for spending it. This case may be diffenet becaus ethey were out in public space but the argument is similar if you dont want me on your network encrypt it or keep it the hell off my land. Wep encryption may be pointless because it can be cracked in under 10 min but its a way of telling people this is not a public access point
Well said!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18940257 Fri, 24 Aug 2007 09:41:29 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937451 anon : It's my oxygen!!! lol! To all you freaks who think this is stealing... then don't come by my house. The plants and trees on my yard are producing oxygen that belongs to me! You can't breath it - even though it's in the public domain.

Of course, I can agree there's something to be said about leaning up against a private building and private property - but sitting on the street?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18937451 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:40:48 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18934559 AmeritecTech :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

So find someone on that list that lives by you offering free wifi for your cheap freeloading ass. If you can't find someone, then go ask your neighbors if you can connect to their wireless.
I don't freeload.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18934559 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:12:58 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18934466 Skippy25 :
said by Mudpie2 :

Exactly,
I do not endorse rouge behaviour, but I do not want to be placed in that position unfairly either.
LOL. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18934466 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:59:25 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18934456 Skippy25 : So find someone on that list that lives by you offering free wifi for your cheap freeloading ass. If you can't find someone, then go ask your neighbors if you can connect to their wireless.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18934456 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:57:39 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18933214 anon : Exactly,

I leave my WIFI network wide open for the simple reason that if someone is using my network (roommate, family member, friend, etc) illegally, "unbeknownst to me", I can not be help liable for the "possibility" that someone accessed my network remotely.

Remember the RIAA case where the RIAA could not prove that the owner of the computer was in fact the person downloading songs because the WIFI network was unsecure and the "accused" DHCP IP address was the wireless router and not the private network IP address/computer name behind the router.

I do not endorse rouge behaviour, but I do not want to be placed in that position unfairly either.

Also, I am not a lawyer nor computer specialist, so I will not "assume" what is or is not legal versus ethical.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18933214 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:46:39 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932837 AmeritecTech :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

Regardless of any technological argument you try to make, you don't know if you are suppose to be using it, you can safely conclude in probably 99% of all cases (especially from your home) that they don't want you to use it, so until you receive permission by the OWNER to do so you should stay the hell off of it.

How you can connect to it and why doesn’t matter. You can blame them for not protecting it. You can blame the router for penetrating your walls. You can blame science for giving us the technology. And you can blame God for giving us the intelligence. But the bottom line is, you can safely conclude in virtually every single case they don't want you there so it is on you to seek permission to be there.
Except that I don't agree with your premise. Many people are happy to offer free access as evidenced by all the listings on nodedb.org.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932837 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:33:27 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932804 Skippy25 : Regardless of any technological argument you try to make, you don't know if you are suppose to be using it, you can safely conclude in probably 99% of all cases (especially from your home) that they don't want you to use it, so until you receive permission by the OWNER to do so you should stay the hell off of it.

How you can connect to it and why doesn’t matter. You can blame them for not protecting it. You can blame the router for penetrating your walls. You can blame science for giving us the technology. And you can blame God for giving us the intelligence. But the bottom line is, you can safely conclude in virtually every single case they don't want you there so it is on you to seek permission to be there.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18932804 Thu, 23 Aug 2007 09:24:54 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18929803 anon : My connection thru RR cant see my posts. My connection thru AT&T can see my posts. Curious developement I will have to be aware of for future reference. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18929803 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:38:59 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18928392 anon : Its about freekin time... How can you even meaningfully participate in any worthwhile discussion when your posts are roadblocked for such lengthy amounts of time? There comes a point when one cant help but think his posts are deleted. And its not like it was borderline vulger and 6 people had to wieght in on wether to allow it to post. Registering and then talking about behavior companies suit you into bancrupsy over is the height of stupidity. Once a person is targeted and served, he has lost. The legal system today is just too expensive no mater wether your innocent or guilty. Even if you win you lose so its best just to stay anonomus and not be a target. Those are the real winners.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18928392 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:29:25 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18928317 Ebolla : why proudly proclaim you have a cantenna lifestyle while hiding behind an anonomous post. THATS being a hypocrite.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18928317 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:20:55 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18928295 anon : Yet another case of my post being deleted... This place is very hypocritical and I would be an idiot to proclaim my identity while talking about my cantenna lifestyle. I am content to talk anonomously, but there is no point when my words are deleted.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18928295 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 16:17:11 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926913 anon : Its one thing for me to journey over to somebodys private property and make entry thru doors that are expected to be locked. Its an entirely different thing for me to be legally bebopping my way thru life and find out that somebodys signals are openly invading my space. I can either complain or be happy. I rather be happy and make the best of the situation. Free internet via unpassworded signals. Yipeeeeeee. But with the huge gray area in prosecutorial law in this respect that might allow me to win aquital of criminal activity, it would still cost me a huge pile of cash to simply defend myself. So anybody is a complete IDIOT to stand up and admit that they "freeload" their wifi if thats what you choose to call it. I claim that I am certainly legal but I in no way can afford to defend my claim finacially in todays court of law. The legal system is simply out of control financialy.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926913 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:44:41 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926743 Ebolla :
said by aurgathor See Profile :

Did the owner of the unsecured Wi-Fi had any monetary loss as a result of the alleged theft?
No but I am sure the person using his internet was using up his bandwidth. Now if the person who pays for the services pays for bandwidth usage then yes the person accessing his services is causing a monetary loss.

Also lets not forget we cant apply US laws to this since this was in UK.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926743 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:13:35 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926572 chris231989 : so what about the other ignorant people that don't know how to stop there laptops from conencting to open ap's. should they be arested also??]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926572 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:55:03 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926467 Necronomikro : I mean for a random joe to connect, it needs to broadcast the SSID. I'm aware that you can have it not broadcast and enter that information manually.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926467 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:42:09 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926381 aurgathor :
said by BF69 See Profile :

said by StraitShoot See Profile :

If someone is stupid enough NOT to tie up their WiFi with a Password, they shouldn't care if someone else can "steal" the signal. Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded.
So if I forget to lock my door I DESERVE to get robbed? The robber shouldn't be punished because it would be just rewarding my ineptness?
Did the owner of the unsecured Wi-Fi had any monetary loss as a result of the alleged theft?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926381 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:26:41 EDT Yep... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926249 roady1 : That's what I said :)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926249 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 12:09:49 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926076 greendragon : And I would say that if a person wants to use technology then they should either know how to set it up or hire someone that knows.

The fact that a SSID is being broadcast is not the problem. If you do not password protect it then it is open for anyone to use.

If my neighbor is transmitting the signal into my house and the router is allowing me to get an IP address then I should be able to. However when I ask for permission and it says no, then I cannot. If the neighbor is breaking his ISPs TOS by sharing his connection then he should be responsible for the consequences.
--
Folding for our future!!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926076 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:44:06 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926050 AmeritecTech :
said by Necronomikro See Profile :

And before the nic could ask for an ip, it had to be told by the router that the router was there. What's your point?
Not true, the SSID can be entered manually. SSID is broadcast for the purpose of people who do not know what the SSID is, or for convenience.

Requesting an IP is a roughly equivalent transaction to asking for entry into someone's house. As long as you represent yourself appropriately, ("My name is Bob and I sell vacuums" / "I am a computer using a wireless card with MAC ID xxxxxxxxx") granted access was not obtained fraudulently.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926050 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:39:15 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926016 Necronomikro : And before the nic could ask for an ip, it had to be told by the router that the router was there. What's your point?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18926016 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:34:06 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925907 AmeritecTech :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

Wrong, your NIC was shooting HEY CAN I HAVE AN IP. At least learn the basics for what your DA is going to argue.

I know, your next response is going to be that the router say yeah you can have an IP so all is good as permission was granted. I would say your fraudently accepted that IP and should be arrested for it.
In what way did I commit fraud? I didn't spoof a MAC to pretend that I am an authorized computer and I didn't guess or brute any passwords. And why do you need to call me a dumb ass to discuss this with me?
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925907 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:20:51 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925883 Necronomikro : Not necessarily, but, if you leave a baby out in a hot car (negligence), you deserve the legal repercussions. This is just another, less extreme, example of negligence.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925883 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:16:42 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925877 Skippy25 : Wrong, your NIC was shooting HEY CAN I HAVE AN IP. At least learn the basics for what your DA is going to argue.

I know, your next response is going to be that the router say yeah you can have an IP so all is good as permission was granted. I would say your fraudently accepted that IP and should be arrested for it. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925877 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:16:13 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925828 AmeritecTech :
said by Skippy25 See Profile :

Regardless, it is not free nor does the owner need to make it clear that it is not free as that should be a given. You have it ass backwards. Instead of assuming everything is free for the taking by default just because it is there and you can access it, why don't you assume you need permission to take it first. The burden is on you, not the owner.

It is people like you that think anything you are not specifically told to leave alone you can mess with that cause a vast majority of the problems in every society.

It isn't yours, you know it isn't yours, so STFU and move on to one that you know is being offered publicly.
I'm puzzled why you'd choose to respond to that particular post, but whatever.

A router that is shouting at my wireless card "HEY BUDDY, HAVE AN IP!" is not even trying to keep me out, indeed, it is inviting me.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925828 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:08:39 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925813 Skippy25 : Regardless, it is not free nor does the owner need to make it clear that it is not free as that should be a given. You have it ass backwards. Instead of assuming everything is free for the taking by default just because it is there and you can access it, why don't you assume you need permission to take it first. The burden is on you, not the owner.

It is people like you that think anything you are not specifically told to leave alone you can mess with that cause a vast majority of the problems in every society.

It isn't yours, you know it isn't yours, so STFU and move on to one that you know is being offered publicly.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925813 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:05:44 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925810 ROCINANTE 2112 : ..and here is another one. The terrorist activity itself is obviously the point of contention. Is there actually a law that states that if someone grabs your signal to conduct terrorist activities, then you are partially liable? How does ignorance of the law apply here? If there isn't a law, then this would be a civil case. Perhaps in the court of public opinion someone would be considered liable, but where is the intent? What would "reasonable" people do? Is there negligence involved? What is the cause and effect? Do reasonable people purchase routers to allow others to conduct illegal activities? Of course not, and it does not matter if they are secured or not.
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CRUNCH THIS! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925810 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:05:18 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925556 AmeritecTech :
said by ROCINANTE 2112 See Profile :

Wow, logical fallacies and invalid analogies are making a comeback in this thread.

Why is the attitude of "innocent people deserve bad things to happen to them when they make mistakes" so pervasive on this board?
Ignorance of the law and of technology is no excuse. If terrorist activity or other criminal activity takes place from an unsecured wireless connection, it may indeed be appropriate to make them partially liable for anything that takes place.
--
"Independent thinkers tend to ALWAYS have someone Not agreeing with them. It's The non-thinkers that ALWAYS come in legions."
-John Callari]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925556 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:30:34 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925538 ROCINANTE 2112 : Wow, logical fallacies and invalid analogies are making a comeback in this thread.

Why is the attitude of "innocent people deserve bad things to happen to them when they make mistakes" so pervasive on this board?
--
CRUNCH THIS! ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925538 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:27:39 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925435 DataDoc : Yeah, it's as if you installed software that misused your PC's file system, adding thousands of entries and didn't even ask first. You should have known better than install it.

Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925435 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 10:11:40 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925328 Noah Vail : Why don't you take all of your belongings, and put them on the street.

At nighttime, anyone equipped with a flashlight could locate them and make use of them.

How smart would you be for doing that?

Are you still offended by somebody using your stuff when you have spent time and money to put it unattended in a public place?

NV
--
The More Alike 2 Religions are, the Stronger the Hate between them.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925328 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:54:27 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925298 mustang03282 :
said by BF69 See Profile :

said by StraitShoot See Profile :

If someone is stupid enough NOT to tie up their WiFi with a Password, they shouldn't care if someone else can "steal" the signal. Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded.
So if I forget to lock my door I DESERVE to get robbed? The robber shouldn't be punished because it would be just rewarding my ineptness?
no but if you put something out in the trash should you have me arrested if i take it or better yet if you leave your front door wide open and the wind kicks up and 100$ blows off your desk out your front door and ends up flying through my open window and lands in my house am i a theif for spending it. This case may be diffenet becaus ethey were out in public space but the argument is similar if you dont want me on your network encrypt it or keep it the hell off my land. Wep encryption may be pointless because it can be cracked in under 10 min but its a way of telling people this is not a public access point]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925298 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:48:51 EDT Of course not... http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925256 roady1 :
said by BF69 See Profile :

said by StraitShoot See Profile :

If someone is stupid enough NOT to tie up their WiFi with a Password, they shouldn't care if someone else can "steal" the signal. Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded.
So if I forget to lock my door I DESERVE to get robbed? The robber shouldn't be punished because it would be just rewarding my ineptness?
But in this case you DESERVE to get into some trouble for redistributing the internet access which you agreed not to do in your ISP TOS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925256 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:41:12 EDT Re: The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925166 BF69 :
said by StraitShoot See Profile :

If someone is stupid enough NOT to tie up their WiFi with a Password, they shouldn't care if someone else can "steal" the signal. Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded.
So if I forget to lock my door I DESERVE to get robbed? The robber shouldn't be punished because it would be just rewarding my ineptness?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18925166 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 09:23:03 EDT The owner of the "Unsecured" WiFi should be arrested http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18924988 StraitShoot : If someone is stupid enough NOT to tie up their WiFi with a Password, they shouldn't care if someone else can "steal" the signal. Ineptness and ignorance shouldn't be rewarded. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18924988 Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:44:12 EDT