moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD | Employees cost too much.....
Management is always looking for ways to cut costs. If you could hire a bunch of part timers that you could rid of anytime you wanted, companies would be in heaven. Full time employees cost too much with their salary, benefits, vacations, etc. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| What happens is you hire 200 In house workers to meet current demand. Demand drops , moving season is over and you have 75 techs with no work to do.
Instead, hire 125 techs and when work load increases contract it out. When the load decreases cut back contractor routes.
Its that simple formula that will always benefit contractors. They are a needed resource.
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Kylemaul
Lovin' My Firefox 1.5.x
Premium
join:2001-03-30
North Port, FL
clubs:
 ·Verizon FIOS
| Ouch! What exactly is it that you have against contractors?
Your 'simple formula' does NOT benefit contractors, it benefits the cablecos. Cutting back contractor routes is damn near the same as laying off an 'in-house' employee. Someone is not going to get a very good paycheck, if any, when the routes get cut back...
That being said, it is a market-based system that sacrifices the job security of a few for the whims of the many (consumers). Sad. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| Thats the nature of contracting. One week they might get 60 routes, the next 40, the next 70. I was a contractor as well. If I didnt get a route at garage A, my company sent me to Garage B. They still work, either with another company that day or another cableco or even just another office.
You cant romise contractos 60 routes a day and if only 40 book still pay them for 20 routes they do not run on.
I think you just might not understand how contracting in general works.
Its sad that you think if there isnt customer demand to fill X amount of routes not only SHOULD the company take the hit in lost possible profits with the lower volume of work, but also take another hit by paying people to NOT work.
Contractors in the cable world ( and most other worlds) exist to fill the gap in manpower and demand if there is one. If there is a big push one quarter they open quota for 70 installs and let the contractors know they will have 70 possible routes they need covered. If they have 30 the next week the contractors do not "lay off" 40 people, they just send the to other areas or, possibly, they do not work those days.
When I contracted I worked Mnday through Saturday every single week. I bounced from shop to shop and never missed a beat. And I was always low man on the totem pole.The veterns always stayed in the same shop. demand gets high, I fill in, it get low, I go to another shop.
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
 ·Verizon Online DSL
| said by CableTool  :Contractors in the cable world ( and most other worlds) exist to fill the gap in manpower and demand if there is one. If there is a big push one quarter they open quota for 70 installs and let the contractors know they will have 70 possible routes they need covered. If they have 30 the next week the contractors do not "lay off" 40 people, they just send the to other areas or, possibly, they do not work those days. Not always how it works. Not in the computer world.
If the slow down is big enough, the contractors go home with no pay. I saw this in my last job where every September the layoffs would begin. Customer would spend their money too fast and then cut back for at least 3 months. And for 3 months, good guys would be collecting unemployment.
So what do you tell someone who was doing good work but now they have no paycheck until they need you again. |
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viperlmw
Premium
join:2005-01-25
·Qwest.net
| said by moonpuppy :So what do you tell someone who was doing good work but now they have no paycheck until they need you again. You tell them to find a real job with an employer who understands that it's the employees who do the work and interface with the customers, and is willing to treat them like their company depends on them (which it must, or there wouldn't be any employees). The jobs are out there for people disciplined enough to show up to work every day and perform for their employer. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| reply to moonpuppy
You tell them Contract work might not be for them? Thats why its contracted.
Its like a temp agency getting pissed because a company no longer needed temps.
"How Dare you take food from their mouths!!"
Thats the business they are in. Most contractors in our industry also do Dish on their off days or low voltage contracting.
Im just responding to KyleMaul who thinks its heartless.
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CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity" |
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moonpuppy
join:2000-08-21
Glen Burnie, MD
·Verizon Online DSL
| reply to viperlmw
said by viperlmw :You tell them to find a real job with an employer who understands that it's the employees who do the work and interface with the customers, and is willing to treat them like their company depends on them (which it must, or there wouldn't be any employees). The jobs are out there for people disciplined enough to show up to work every day and perform for their employer. Those jobs are getting fewer and fewer because companies are going to contractors to lower their costs. Where i used to work was a DOD contractor and they loved contractors because they cost so much less. My department was filling employee positions with contractors as employees left.
We had employees not show up but because they were employees, they are much harder to fire. |
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
 ·LINGO
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
 ·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS
| reply to CableTool
Kylemaul never said it was heartless - that's your word. Kylemaul said it contracting benefits the cable company, not the contractor. Your response did not refute that. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| He said what do I have against contractors and that sacrificing job security of a few for the whims of many was sad. Pardon my paraphrase, I beleive the sentiment was the same. I have nothing against them.
The cable company isnt there to benefit the contractor. The contracting company is there to benifit the contractor and the cable company.
Its contracted work. I wouldnt think that would be a hard concept.
When a huge upgrade needs to be dont they hire contractors. When the upgrade is over they do not keep paying contractors to sit around and watch paint dry. That is why they hire contractors. There is seasonal and demand work that you cant hire fulltime inhouse staff to perform. That is why contracting companies exist. They fill in the gaps and pic up the overflow.
When the work is done, contract is over or things get slow they do dish installs, low voltage work or work for another cable co.
Its the same as construction workers not working all winter. That is their career and you arent building houses or whatnot in the dead of winter. Nobody is saying "Poor construction worker... no one is paying you to build a house in 3' of snow? How sad for this society..."
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs: | Nothing you've said shows how this benefits contractors. I'm not sure why you made that claim. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| said by JTRockville :Nothing you've said shows how this benefits contractors. I'm not sure why you made that claim. In the context of this news article Contractors will always be a needed resource. Work goes up and down but it is always there. This article suggests this area is getting rid of them. Im stating they are a needed resource because of the volatility of the industry, you will never be able to fully get rid of them. This benefits contractors.
Im not sure how being indispensable is not a benefit.
Working on an "as needed" basis ( which is pretty much everyday) is better then an area not using contractors at all. Ask one of em.
Really.. not a hard concept I thought? This thread is exhausting?
Now where in KyleMauls post did it not infer the practice was heartless?
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
·LINGO
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·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS
| Kylemaul 's word was "sad", not "heartless". A dictionary could help you discern the difference.
You seem to be the only one who thinks tossing the left-over crumbs to someone who likely needs a full-time gig is a benefit. Are you a contractor? Why/why not? |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| Honestly, anyone IN this industry understands HOW it works.
KyleMauls comments paraphrased can and are construed as me or the company being heartless, uncaring, unempathitc, etc etc etc. He did say it was sad, he did say I must have something against contractors and likened cutting back routes as laying off workers that will not get a check.
If that doesnt all boil down to "heartless" at the very least.. then YES, I DO need a dictionary. ( Heartless: 3. Destitute of feeling or affection; unsympathetic; cruel.
)
And how me picking up on all those context clues and extrapelating "heartless" from it is such a point of contention for YOU, while KyleMaul has yet to even respond.. is "sad."
And to restate, for the 4th time now-
Contracting Company A has standing contracts with various shops and cablecos in any given area. Not to mention Dish and construction work. If the company cuts back X amount of routes, those techs go to shop B. No one is laid off, no one misses a check. If you think that is "tossing left over crumbs" then you really are out of your element.
Im not a contractor because I didnt like to bounce from shop to shop. I didnt like to pick up two routes and work until 10pm and I didnt like working 6 days a week. ( because again, you work non stop. There is no "lay off" )
I made a ton of money but was exhausted.
My experience is why I am one of maybe none in this thread that can actually speak about the issue with some sort of authority.
The nature of the industry is beneficial to contractors because they will ALWAYS have work. From one shop to another, one area cuts back, another one is adding techs.
In the contractor world you go where the work is. And you always work. Your employer calls you the night before or morning of and they tell you the shop you report to.
So again.. if a contractor wanted a full time "gig" he has it. If he wanted to go inhouse and have some more stability, he is more then welcome to apply. But contractors work CONTINUALLY.
I cant help it if you cant comprehend it.
So me stating in every post that the contractor will always have work to do and will never go without a paycheck apparently boils down to contractors being second class citizens and getting little or no money.
I truely am at a loss.
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Kylemaul
Lovin' My Firefox 1.5.x
Premium
join:2001-03-30
North Port, FL
clubs:
·Verizon FIOS
| Didn't realize my post would become such a focal point. I said what I meant and meant what I said. Apparently what I said is open for interpretation, so I will attempt to clarify.
The most important point I had was that:
It is 'sad' that the "gotta have it RIGHT NOW!" attitude of society is all that is really driving the 'need' for subcontracting in the cable industry. And subcontracting in the cable industry is 'sad' in and of itself for several reasons. I'll list a few here:
1) Absolutely no job stability. If your income becomes inadequate during a 'slow' part of the season, how are you going to get a mortgage for owning a house?
2) Nomadic lifestyle. What if you have to travel 500 miles or more just to keep busy?
3) Limited or no employment benefits, and certainly no assisted retirement fund.
It is also sad that the cable companies either:
1) Lack the vision and planning necessary to maintain a more permanent workforce and keep themselves less dependent upon subcontracted labor.
2) Simply don't care about the laborers doing the work that is keeping them in business and making them money.
Myself, I was a cable contractor for 2 years and an 'in-house' employee for a large cableco for 2 years, so much of what I have said here is directly from personal experience.
CableTool, your moniker fits you all to well. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| A lot of what you say appears to be out of ignorance. Ive been doing this for 14 years.
If a large builindg is about to be built they use contractors. When the building is done, the contractors move to the next project, they dont go on the new homeowners payroll and wait for something to build. Cable is the same way. Quit your whinning.
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
·LINGO
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| reply to CableTool
I think Kylemaul 's reply was quite adequate, but I'll add:
If contracting isn't suitable for you, why do you think its such a treat for others? |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| Honestly... what is your issue/obsession?
Collecting garbage isnt suitable for me either.. Im sure some dont mind.
My job isnt suitable for many, but I love it.
What the hell is your point?
And where did I say its a "treat" Those are "your words" not mine. 
Let me sum up.. again.
One area cutting back on contractors means they will work in another shop.
The work available for contractors goes up and down, thats why most contractors do Dish or other jobs on the side or are assigned to different shops throughout the week. I wired data lines in Downtown Chicago overnights after my install route.
No one is "throwing crumbs" There are no "sad" practices going on.
Its funny, everyone complains about contractors and an article comes out that one area is talking of using only inhouse and suddenly its a horrible thing.
Attache Comcasts name to a cuddly puppy and somoene would most likely stomp him to death.
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JTRockville
Data Ho
Premium,MVM
join:2002-01-28
Rockville, MD
clubs:
·LINGO
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
·surpasshosting
·Verizon FIOS
| Who's stomping Comcast?
It's understandable why Shatlock would rather hire employees than contractors - the article lays that out nicely. No one in this topic (except you) said it would be a horrible thing. In fact, it seems like a good thing, altough from moonpuppy 's original post, it's easy to see how the use of contractors benefits Comcast.
What I don't understand, and what you haven't been able to explain, is how a part-time, limited benefits, no job security, contracting job is beneficial to contractors.
So I don't have any issue, and I'm not obsessed with anything. I'm just curious why you made the statement, though I've concluded that you won't provide an explanation. |
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CableTool
Poorly Representing MYSELF.
Premium
join:2004-11-12
| said by JTRockville :What I don't understand, and what you haven't been able to explain, is how a part-time, limited benefits, no job security, contracting job is beneficial to contractors. "Part Time, Limited Benefits, No job security contracting job" is "YOUR" phrase. Not mine.
Joe blow cannot walk up to Comcast and say "I want to start contracting for you.."
Comcast hires contracting firms who hire their own employees and are responsible for keeping them working. Just like any other contracting firm. They offer their own benefits, sometimes tools trucks and training. If you consider 6 days a week "part time" then Id hate to see what you consider full time?
Your making a lot of assumptions about something you know nothing about.. and then expecting me to validate them.
I never said a contractor working part time with inadequate benefits and no job security would benefit by working for Comcast.
I stated the nature of the business benefits contractors because they are always needed and they will always work.
How you keep changing your "point" when I address it is truly baffling. And tired.
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CableTechs.org/"Horrible People with Integrity" |
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