orph4824
I Ate What??
join:2001-04-26
Greeneville, TN
2 edits | reply to Fox McCloud
Re: more 10 Meg rumors
13594 is his sync rate remember the encapsulation overhead
ie 5mb equals a sync of 5888, thusly 13,594 is roughly 11,800 theroretical max so my 85% is based on that number not the 13,594 and after his initial tweaks... hes doing fine *insert jealous chagrins* 
And according to his speed test ping results 14 on one and 41 on the other hes on fastpath, interleave give higher ping results but are steadier and more predicable unlike fasthpath will reach lower but *can* fluctuate greatly esp given the higher you go in speed increaseing entropy.
--
Life's 3 rules: 1. Stuff happens 2. Stuff happens on a regular basis 3. Better get used to the first two... (not the actual saying but you get the drift) |
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MrMoody
But the Grinch ... did Not.
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
 ·Embarq
 ·Skype
·magicjack.com
| reply to Dezbend
I'm at 4950 ft and my noise numbers are better than Darnell's, but I bet I still won't be able to get it.
EMBARQ> wan adsl linedata near
noise margin downstream: 28 db
output power upstream: 12 db
attenuation downstream: 24 db
carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone)
tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 12 22 34 45 56 66 77 77 77 88 88
tone 64- 95: 78 88 88 88 88 88 87 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77
tone 96-127: 77 77 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 65 55 55 55 55 55
tone 128-159: 54 44 44 44 44 45 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
tone 160-191: 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 50 55 55 25 55
tone 192-223: 55 55 55 55 54 44 44 44 44 43 33 33 22 22 22 22
tone 224-255: 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 20 22 22 20 00 02
tone 256-287: 03 34 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 55 45 55 55 55 55 54
tone 288-319: 44 44 44 22 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 40 43
tone 320-351: 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 04 44 44 44 44
tone 352-383: 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 32 33 33 33 33 33 33 33
tone 384-415: 33 33 33 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22
tone 416-447: 22 22 22 22 20 22 22 22 22 22 02 22 22 22 22 22
tone 448-479: 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 21 11 11 11
tone 480-511: 11 11 11 11 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
EMBARQ> wan adsl linedata far
noise margin upstream: 13 db
output power downstream: 20 db
attenuation upstream: 8 db
carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone)
tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 06 78 99 aa bb bb bb bb cb bb ba a8 76
tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 64- 95: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 96-127: 00 00 00 00 00 70 88 50 6f 5d 31 fd 1f 20 da eb
tone 128-159: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 160-191: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 192-223: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
--
"It is a future in which globalization really does work ... and everybody winds up getting to be part of the third world." - William Gibson |
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orph4824
I Ate What??
join:2001-04-26
Greeneville, TN
3 edits | said by MrMoody  :I'm at 4950 ft and my noise numbers are better than Darnell's, but I bet I still won't be able to get it. EMBARQ> wan adsl linedata near noise margin downstream: 28 db output power upstream: 12 db attenuation downstream: 24 db carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone) tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 12 22 34 45 56 66 77 77 77 88 88 tone 64- 95: 78 88 88 88 88 88 87 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 77 tone 96-127: 77 77 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 65 55 55 55 55 55 tone 128-159: 54 44 44 44 44 45 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 tone 160-191: 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 50 55 55 25 55 tone 192-223: 55 55 55 55 54 44 44 44 44 43 33 33 22 22 22 22 tone 224-255: 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 20 22 22 20 00 02 tone 256-287: 03 34 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 55 45 55 55 55 55 54 tone 288-319: 44 44 44 22 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 40 43 tone 320-351: 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 04 44 44 44 44 tone 352-383: 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 44 32 33 33 33 33 33 33 33 tone 384-415: 33 33 33 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 tone 416-447: 22 22 22 22 20 22 22 22 22 22 02 22 22 22 22 22 tone 448-479: 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 22 21 11 11 11 tone 480-511: 11 11 11 11 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 EMBARQ> wan adsl linedata far noise margin upstream: 13 dboutput power downstream: 20 db attenuation upstream: 8 db carrier load: number of bits per symbol(tone) tone 0- 31: 00 00 00 06 78 99 aa bb bb bb bb cb bb ba a8 76 tone 32- 63: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 64- 95: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 96-127: 00 00 00 00 00 70 88 50 6f 5d 31 fd 1f 20 da eb tone 128-159: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 160-191: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 192-223: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 224-255: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 256-287: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 288-319: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 320-351: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 352-383: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 384-415: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 416-447: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 448-479: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 tone 480-511: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 Nope your numbers won't support 10m if you tried your upstream (you to the CO/RT) it would never hear you rough cut 13/2=6.5 noisemargin just .5 above failure, you might get sync but you could never reliably maintain it. Going by Darrnells stats I'd say hes about 4200 ft from his CO/RT.
--
Life's 3 rules: 1. Stuff happens 2. Stuff happens on a regular basis 3. Better get used to the first two... (not the actual saying but you get the drift) |
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MrMoody
But the Grinch ... did Not.
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| said by orph4824 :Nope your numbers won't support 10m if you tried your upstream (you to the CO/RT) it would never hear you rough cut 13/2=6.5 noisemargin just .5 above failure, you might get sync but you could never reliably maintain it. Going by Darrnells stats I'd say hes about 4200 ft from his CO/RT. OK, explain this. Why cut in half? The upstream band is the same size for both services. Does the 10Mb downstream signal using higher frequencies increase the upstream noise at the low upstream frequencies? And if so I would think it would be by a constant number of dBs. It was running at 10dB before I put in a whole house splitter and CAT5e. The house wiring was straight 4 conductor, no twist at all.
I believe you, but I like to know how this works. From what you're saying the cutoff will be about 4500 ft of clean line.
--
"It is a future in which globalization really does work ... and everybody winds up getting to be part of the third world." - William Gibson |
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orph4824
I Ate What??
join:2001-04-26
Greeneville, TN
1 edit | Correct the higher the sync causes more noise so 4500 is a STABLE number it could go as high as 4800 but i believe you would have sync issues going from my experience and conservatite estimates i play it safe with noise margins if its not atleast 12-14db for the given tier then i consider it unstable for every 3db of loss your useable signal is cut in half and at 6db noise is where the modems will lose sync, 12-14 gives you a safe stable margin cause line conditions do vary up and down.
--
Life's 3 rules: 1. Stuff happens 2. Stuff happens on a regular basis 3. Better get used to the first two... (not the actual saying but you get the drift) |
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MrMoody
But the Grinch ... did Not.
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| Thanks. I'd like know what Darnell's numbers were before the change, and his actual CO distance.
That's just my luck I'm just barely too far.
--
"It is a future in which globalization really does work ... and everybody winds up getting to be part of the third world." - William Gibson |
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DarnellP
join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV
| reply to Fox McCloud
said by Fox McCloud :Say, what's your ping to www.google.com ? Sorry for the delay, Fox.
Ping has started ...
PING google.navigation.opendns.com (208.67.219.230): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=0 ttl=50 time=25.399 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=26.249 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=25.574 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=23.697 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=4 ttl=50 time=25.355 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=5 ttl=50 time=23.217 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=6 ttl=50 time=23.221 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=7 ttl=50 time=23.637 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=8 ttl=50 time=25.746 ms
64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=9 ttl=50 time=23.572 ms
--- google.navigation.opendns.com ping statistics ---
10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 23.217/24.567/26.249/1.131 ms |
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DarnellP
join:2004-10-12
Las Vegas, NV
| reply to MrMoody
said by MrMoody :Thanks. I'd like know what Darnell's numbers were before the change, and his actual CO distance. I wish that I could accurately tell you, MrMoody. Earlier this year during an online tech support session, a rep said that my distance was ~4000'. The tech that came out yesterday claimed that my distance was ~2000' and that Embarq would be offering 10 Meg out to ~8000'. |
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orph4824
I Ate What??
join:2001-04-26
Greeneville, TN
| said by DarnellP :The tech that came out yesterday claimed that my distance was ~2000' and that Embarq would be offering 10 Meg out to ~8000'. I hope for some this is true but I feel that ~5000-6000 excludeing line issues will be the stable max. Time will tell.
--
Life's 3 rules: 1. Stuff happens 2. Stuff happens on a regular basis 3. Better get used to the first two... (not the actual saying but you get the drift) |
|
Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
 ·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| reply to DarnellP
said by DarnellP :said by Fox McCloud :Say, what's your ping to www.google.com ? Sorry for the delay, Fox. Ping has started ... PING google.navigation.opendns.com (208.67.219.230): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=0 ttl=50 time=25.399 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=1 ttl=50 time=26.249 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=25.574 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=23.697 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=4 ttl=50 time=25.355 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=5 ttl=50 time=23.217 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=6 ttl=50 time=23.221 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=7 ttl=50 time=23.637 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=8 ttl=50 time=25.746 ms 64 bytes from 208.67.219.230: icmp_seq=9 ttl=50 time=23.572 ms --- google.navigation.opendns.com ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 23.217/24.567/26.249/1.131 ms No problem, I just thought you didn't see my request....thanks for the results! That's really good latency.
also, Orph, I tend to agree with you...I just can't see Embarq supporting 10 meg out to 8000 feet...unless the lines are exceptionally good, or they install a repeater midway.
I'm just thankful that I'm slightly under 4,500' from a fiber fed RT....*crosses his finger* let's just hope they deploy a DSLAM next year. (I'm fairly certain my line is clean as I could routinely connect at 50.3k with my v.92 dial-up modem). |
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orph4824
I Ate What??
join:2001-04-26
Greeneville, TN
2 edits | I wanna see them get rid of copper and go fiber to the pole(FTTP) then have copper drops from there, would all but eliminate noise and distance limits not to mention a substantial maintaince reduction, copper degrades over time and has to be patched/replaced, all they have to maintain would be the copper from the pole to your home.
--
Life's 3 rules: 1. Stuff happens 2. Stuff happens on a regular basis 3. Better get used to the first two... (not the actual saying but you get the drift) |
|
Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by orph4824 :I wanna see them get rid of copper and go fiber to the pole(FTTP) then have copper drops from there, would all but eliminate noise and distance limits not to mention a substantial maintaince reduction, coppy degrades over time and has to be patched/replaced, all they have to maintain would be the copper from the pole to your home. why not just go with FTTH then? Would it really be that much more expensive?
Also, with Verizon's FiOS service your phone travels over copper (in your home) until it reaches the little box on the side of your house, correct? Would you happen to know if the voice quality of phone service is the same as POTS (relatively, that is, if it's *slighly* better, no biggie) or is it more on par with ISDN in terms of voice quality?
Still, I'd take FTTP too....it'd mean insanely fast speeds. |
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orph4824
I Ate What??
join:2001-04-26
Greeneville, TN
3 edits | just makes more sense to stop at the pole and use copper drops, FTTH given equipment, safety, and meeting local electrical code over various areas would be the problem.
For ISDN the POTS side is of course analog after it leaves the modem its all digital 64kb to the CO. FIOS is the same your phones are analog to the FIOS equipment then from there all digital. You wouldn't be able to tell the diffrence from ISDN to FIOS. I had ISDN back when it was the only "broadband" available and the thing I enjoyed the most was the call quality crystal clear unless the other end had noise, you call most businesses or 800 numbers and it was CD quality clean.
--
Life's 3 rules: 1. Stuff happens 2. Stuff happens on a regular basis 3. Better get used to the first two... (not the actual saying but you get the drift) |
|
MrMoody
But the Grinch ... did Not.
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| reply to Dezbend
My theory on qualifications
Based on my research into how this stuff works, here's my theory on the 10Mb requirements:
DSL standard: ADSL2PLUS (ADSL_G.dmt will not support it)
attenuation downstream: 33 db MAX for full 10Mb (which corresponds to ~6900 ft of clean line)
noise margin upstream: about 12 db MIN at 5Mb
noise margin downstream: about 19 db MIN at 5Mb
If you're right at the noise limit it may not (probably won't) be stable. More attenuation will cause it to sync at a lower rate, but should still work up to a point. 38 dB (~7850 ft) should yield 8 Mb net, above that they probably won't give it to you. This jibes with the tech saying 8000 ft.
Note this is basically educated guessing, time will tell. Seeing before/after noise numbers would allow a lot better minimum noise estimate. If anyone meets all of the above but can't get 10Mb (or it won't run stably), speak up.
--
"It is a future in which globalization really does work ... and everybody winds up getting to be part of the third world." - William Gibson |
|
MrMoody
But the Grinch ... did Not.
join:2002-09-03
Smithfield, NC
·Embarq
·Skype
·magicjack.com
| reply to orph4824
Re: more 10 Meg rumors
said by orph4824 :I wanna see them get rid of copper and go fiber to the pole(FTTP) then have copper drops from there, would all but eliminate noise and distance limits There are no poles here. 
--
"It is a future in which globalization really does work ... and everybody winds up getting to be part of the third world." - William Gibson |
|
Icon
Time Keeper
Premium,VIP,MVM
join:2004-01-07
Crockett, TX
·Windstream
·CenturyLink
| Then fiber to the ped.  |
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Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by Icon :Then fiber to the ped. and neither pole nor ped. here
For me it would be more "fiber to the premise".
Ahh, thanks again, orph. So, I take it with FTTP (pole/ped./premise) and copper from there, into your home, it would be similar to ISDN and FiOS's voice quality? |
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robertfl
Premium
join:2005-10-10
Mary Esther, FL
·Cox VOIP
| Embarq does offer cheap service.
But until we can get 5.0 service or the 10.0 service..
(Not only that, they peer from atlanta to orlando... or has that changed?)
BTW, Fox, nice to see another Ron Paul supporter. I hope he wins.
-Rob |
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Fox McCloud
Crazy like a fox.
join:2006-07-23
·Embarq
·Sprint Mobile Broa..
| said by robertfl :BTW, Fox, nice to see another Ron Paul supporter. I hope he wins. -Rob It's also nice to meet a fellow Ron Paul supporter; I, too, hope he wins. |
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