Interview with Spy Chief Reveals Details About FISA > Finest Fear Mongering Around

reply to jc100

Re: Finest Fear Mongering Around

Truthfully, I had Wiccan in mind when I wrote this statement. However, it's not the only one, people look with disdain upon. You got voodoo, animism, etc etc. Point being, schools are there to learn, not to fight over whose god is better. You've made a good point, and I've argued this one, too. People who tend to want something, want it their way alone. Hence, the federal government was justified by eliminating school prayer. Kids are at school not to pray, but to learn. However, there is a funny joke, on this topic. Wherever a teacher gives a student a test, prayer will always exist in school. While I'm kidding here, it does make light of the situation, to say the least.

reply to Blackened
Your original post contained the phrase "without approval from Congress" which is false since your post was not presented in past tense, implying its happening right now.

Truth and/or deception used to raise fear is fearmongering, both major parties are guilty.

reply to Thaler

Re: Finest Fear Mongering Around

reply to lesopp
Congress had given them the approval only through FISA. The NSA AT&T collaboration bypassed FISA, illegally wiretapping and recording conversations from Americans without permission from a FISA court nor any warrant, rendering the Fourth Amendment in these situations useless.

During those span of years I don't recall there being a convention to discuss removing the Fourth Amendment. I do recall the all important Constitutional amendment proposals to deny homosexuals the right of marriage, and to eliminate the First Amendment right of expression (flag burning as one example), but this one was never brought forth to Congress nor the states, nor did people of any state ever vote on it.

By all means, spin this into deception and fearmongering. The facts are there.

This was part of the President's signatories of "I'll interpret the law how I wish". Hand caught in the cookie jar breaking laws. Republican Congress later tries to cover his ass.

And you're trying to tell me it wasn't illegal. LOL.

You aren't fooling anyone.

No need for me to spin it

The legality question was never answered by the supreme court since no cases have made it that far. As I recall one case was either sent back or dismissed because the complainants lacked standing, which left open the legality question.

The fact that you steadfastly claim its illegal when the legality question is unanswered by the courts along with colorful language meant to raise fear constitutes fearmongering.

I'm not trying to fool anyone, I'm just looking at both sides of the issue.

reply to jc100
I know. It was just odd to see the back-and-forth bickering between who killed more, as if it justifies anything. It was like some religious American Idol or something.

reply to lesopp
The Supreme Court the President put in to tilt his way are not going to tread on the person that put them in there and question Executive Privilege, creating an inter-branch fight as well. Would you fight someone on your side in today's political world? Didn't think so.

Every time questioning the executive branch under oath has come up, "Executive Privilege" is being used. Clearly that's the real problem. Not "lack of standing". In laymans terms, that means "getting the run-around".

You should see how much luck the Democrats (and Republicans) are having with using their Congressional "subpoena" power. Separation of powers my ass. It's clear one branch in this government, this century, is abusing it's power.

You're free to call it fearmongering. I doubt you'd see it any other way anyways. Most logical people, on the other hand, are scared for good reason. We enjoy our Constitutional freedoms, and want the government to fuck off unless it can do things the legal way, like we have to.

reply to Thaler
Well true. Murder is a horrendous crime. We're not trying to make light of it. We're simply pointing out, the magnitude and reaction when others do it is far less. Also, bigotry and hysteria is usually not associated with White Collar Crime. When Mcveigh blew up Oklahoma city, the reaction to it was minor. You couldn't park in front of Federal Buildings for a while. I think you can now, but not sure post 9/11 since I have no reason to be in one. They have metal detectors now, though that's been the normal. More or less, that change was the only one to take place. You didn't have people needing to take off their shoes or being cleared to enter such a building. Yet, toss in the ethnic factor and suddenly every Muslim is out to get you and blow you up. Sure, and every Christian is out to harm me as well (sarcasm). Tit for tat, people need to learn to get along. Since that won't happen, a few preventions are needed. As I said before, the NSA wiretapping, Patriot Act, etc are not those type of preventions we should tolerate.

reply to pnh102
Funny, I'm not white washing anything. You however, have yet to prove a historical and accurate picture. You posted a biblical representation. I'm asking for a factual one. The bible is as credible as Bush getting on T.V. and telling America he's speaking the truth. As for the Balkan War, you my friend flunked history. Go research it. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO with the Muslims per say. IT HAD EVERYTHING to do with the disillusion of Yugoslavia. Serbia didn't want the countries to break away and become independent states. They wanted a Greater Serbia. To get this Greater Serbia, they slaughtered 100s of thousands of Muslim Men , Women, Children in their campaign to rid Serb areas of them. That was this war. Don't believe me, then go read about it yourself. It's not a hard thing to do. It only happened in 1995. Maybe you are too young to remember that year. Who knows, but you sure got a crap recollection of those events if you are old enough.

PNH,

You my friend are the biggest failure of history. First, I said your representation of the Crusades sounded straight out of a bible. Hence, not factual. Give me a FACTUAL, CREDIBLE, resource. I give you the Muslims were expanding. However, the Christian response was to fight back (fine), but then systematically slaughter the Muslims. When I say systematically slaughter, I mean in a genocidal way. Also, let's not forget Christianity's hand in killing anyone non Christian during this time as well. The crusades whole point was to rid lands of those who were pagan and other religions. Ah yes, you seem to cloud history quite well my friend.

Second, Muslims persecuting Christians in Serbia / Albania? You got to be kidding. The countries were peaceful for a LONG time with one another, until the Serbs wanted a Greater Serbia. Do you make stuff up as you go, or just type because it sounds good. GO RESEARCH THE BOSNIAN WAR. Yugoslavia was a pact among all countries. When it dissolved, the other members wanted to break away and form independent states. Hence, Serbia not wanting this, declared war to form a Greater Serbia. While initially a land grab war, it because ethnic in no time. The Christians killed 100s of thousands of Muslim MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN. There are plenty of mass graves and even videos showing the systematic executions of locals. You can toss out that 600 years ago they hated one another, but that NOTHING to do with MODERN TIMES. NOT A THING. As before the war, and before Tito died, EVERYONE lived peacefully. It was only some fifteen years later did everything break at the seams and the war start. Hence, you are out of gas. THE CHRISTIANS not the Muslims were the aggressors there.

Third, here's another wonderful point. Let's not forget the pope's stupidity and recent edict of now condemning Jews to hell. Ah yes, the church is ever so tolerant of others.

reply to jc100

reply to jc100

And yet, the Christian Right has far exceeded these people in the number of deaths in history and worldwide. Amazing huh. In the Bosnia War alone, the Serbs massacred a few hundred thousand Muslims. While this is not meant to justify any actions of violence, your rant of ignorance does speak to your true colors. Obviously, I don't see you condemning the acts of Christianity currently or historically. You know, Christianity has a VERY VERY tainted past and history. However, you seem quite rash to toss crap at Muslims. What basis do you have by the way? Obviously, someone of your limited knowledge doesn't recognize that there are around 1.5 billion Christians and 1.2 Billion Muslims. Am i to assume that the actions of the Christian Serbs against the Muslims or the Muslim Radicals speak for everyone? I guarantee you most followers in either religion are good people. A few bad apples, just seem to overshadow the rest.