DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
 ·Bell Sympatico
| reply to Happyrat
Re: Thomson SpeedTouch 5x6v6 FirmWare v6.2.H (v6.2.17.5)
said by Happyrat  :All the same, this is the Canadian Broadband Forum, not the Thompson Speedtouch Forum. If you really feel you need permanent representation petition Justin to create one instead of posting your daily firmware fixes as a sticky in here... I already have. I suggest you take the matter up with Fatness.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to maxfield
Hi MaxField,
My evaluation of v5.3.2.6 and v5.3.3.4 didn't last
long because newer FirmWares kept coming in at the
time but i do recall being surprized how high they
made my SNR Margin; i'm unable to find any recent
post i may have made about this on DSL Reports and
my memory is failing me so that's all the comments
i can express right now. Relatively to v6.2.17.5,
my opinion is that it "traded" a 5 dB SNR loss for
a 5 % lower RCO which translated as stability. It
was weeks ago and i'm loosing track without quotes
i can rely on but i've found this while searching:
TSI Rick himself recommended it but the result may
be variable from what i gathered of the customer's
feedback... Speaking of which, i appreciate those
efforts you display trying to provide useful clues
to us! I may fail to help you but you are helping
me by re-enforcing my will to get my hands on this
SpeedStream of yours so i thank you for the input.
You problem reminds me of threads about the "pure"
bridge mode the SpeedTouch was said to have awhile
ago and which a TekSavvy worker wrote didn't exist
lately. Well, it raises more questions than i got
answers so i wonder what a pro would make of it... |
|
maxfield
join:2007-09-01
Lasalle, QC
| reply to Bicephale
Hi Bicephale,
You might have some difficulties finding an exact sample of my Speedstream. It is a Bell-issued (with custom Symaptico firmware) Efficient Networks Speedstream 5200 E240. According to another poster in the know, it contains a TI AR5 ADSL chipset. Too bad this modem has to go back to Bell.
DMT Tool ver. 9.01 didn't completely work with this Speedstream because of its crippled firmware. It only showed the attenuation and SNR on the download side. On the whole, it feels snappier than the Speedtouch and has faster upload in bittorrent.
The ST516v6 I bought to replace this Speedstream is an OK modem. The amount of on-board RAM seems a little on the low side, only 8 MBs. For now, firmware 6.2.T will be the firmware of choice for my situation, I will give 7.1.4.7 another try in the future. I can't complain though, I bought this ST516v6 for dirt cheap.
In the end, the total perceivable performance of a modem can't depend solely on the firmware or attenuation or SNR, but has more to do with its construction (on-board memory and the chipset).
Btw, the reseller where I bought my ST516v6 has access to all the ADSL2+ modems that GNet makes or distributes, so I could have gone with another ADSL2+ modem. |
|
maxfield
join:2007-09-01
Lasalle, QC
| reply to Bicephale
7.4.1.7 DMT stats |
After much grief in the past weeks and past few days, I've finally made 7.4.1.7 working, and it is working beautifully.
Before 7.x.x.x refused to sync. Now it sync and it syncs solid. Although I can't tell the improvements in terms of the perceivable speed, but the quality of the connection has certainly improved. Improved both in downstream SNR and upstream attenuation, compared to 6.2.29.0 (6.2.T).
One curious behaviour of the 7.4.1.7, it takes much longer to sync than 6.2.T, but the quality of the sync is definitely better.
I still believe, whenever new firmwares come out for all the different brands of DSL modems, it takes some time before all the Bell COs get them working in the DSLAMs. Some COs get them working faster, some later. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by maxfield :Now it sync and it syncs solid. Although I can't tell the improvements in terms of the perceivable speed, but the quality of the connection has certainly improved. Improved both in downstream SNR and upstream attenuation, compared to 6.2.29.0 (6.2.T). One curious behaviour of the 7.4.1.7, it takes much longer to sync than 6.2.T, but the quality of the sync is definitely better. That reflects my experience with that particular firmware, as well.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | reply to maxfield
So you didn't need black-magic spells?... Great! |
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maxfield
join:2007-09-01
Lasalle, QC | reply to Bicephale
I wonder what comes after 7.4.1.7 ?
Is this one the last of the 7.x.x.x series? |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Euh...
The HardWare is a v6 and its FirmWare a v7 so what
does it tell about the manufacturer's methodology?
That Thomson cares for its customers or that we're
purchasing unfinished devices, because of a rather
agressive marketing approach?... I'm sorry to say
i'm no fortune teller and yet i find most unlikely
to be offered a ST546v7 by some ISPs like TekSavvy
in the future - not to mention they're aware of my
preferences as a customer. Have you ever tried to
DownLoad your SpeedTouch's FirmWare from Thomson's
own web site during the last few months? Mine all
came from alternative sources and quite frankly it
seemed to me Thomson was ready to drop their ST5x6
series months ago when i needed a FirmWare update.
The Speedtouch 5x6 must be re-evaluated seriously,
i'm confident valuable alternatives arrived on the
market while the 3rd-party ISPs were contemplating
a statu-quo. Trouble-shooting is Paramount for us
since ISPs are totally powerless when Bell's phone
line suffers from physical disruptions and i doubt
they'd be willing to develop the resources which a
SpeedTouch actually supports even if they could!!!
I guess we can expect more releases after this one
but i begin to find it excessive to turn customers
into guinea-pigs for so long and Thomson knows it:
their "black-box" attitude came as a result of the
ISPs (their real customers) not wanting us to look
inside and i'm tempted to write it suits them well
knowing that at least one FirmWare caused the unit
to reboot when using 'DMT', a 3rd-party utility...
Who wants a guinea-pig to decide of its own faith?
Certainly not Thomson and i foresee new SpeedTouch
series coming where most remaining holes have been
patched conveniently. Other brands/models will be
built around the sacro-saint BroadCom ChipSet so i
hope one of them will be of the "Open" (GPL) type;
that would justify the price-tag of a SpeedTouch!!
 |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to maxfield
The new "TG" (Thomson Gateway) series... (Translation) |
|
TSI Steve
TSI Steve
Premium,VIP
join:2007-01-12
Chatham, ON
| reply to Bicephale
said by Bicephale :Euh... The HardWare is a v6 and its FirmWare a v7 so what does it tell about the manufacturer's methodology? That Thomson cares for its customers or that we're purchasing unfinished devices, because of a rather agressive marketing approach?... I'm sorry to say i'm no fortune teller and yet i find most unlikely to be offered a ST546v7 by some ISPs like TekSavvy in the future - not to mention they're aware of my preferences as a customer. Have you ever tried to DownLoad your SpeedTouch's FirmWare from Thomson's own web site during the last few months? Mine all came from alternative sources and quite frankly it seemed to me Thomson was ready to drop their ST5x6 series months ago when i needed a FirmWare update. Let me understand your methodology. If a company creates a product and maintains it by correcting bugs and releasing new features in the firmware they are simply trying to pull a marketing scheme over everyone to make them purchase their devices? Maybe I am wrong .. but that would make all electronics vendors scheming capitalists? Including companies such as.....NASA, who has highly skilled programmers working for them to constantly improve the space shuttles (and obviously not just the space shuttle) effectiveness by increasing the productivity of the astronauts because they need worry less about the systems in place..
As far as I am aware code/software is written by people. People are not perfect .. I think everyone can attest to that? If everyone and every product was perfect, what would be the point in research and development? What would be the point to trying to make devices more functional?
Can you name one product that is mass produced that has a fair price point that works perfectly under every possible situation? I can't.
What I can say is that SpeedTouch modems provide a cost efficient product that is consistent in its functionality and has a support team that tries to improve the device on a regular basis.
said by Bicephale :The Speedtouch 5x6 must be re-evaluated seriously, i'm confident valuable alternatives arrived on the market while the 3rd-party ISPs were contemplating a statu-quo. Trouble-shooting is Paramount for us since ISPs are totally powerless when Bell's phone line suffers from physical disruptions and i doubt they'd be willing to develop the resources which a SpeedTouch actually supports even if they could!!! I can not speak for other ISPs but I can tell you that we have evaluated many other products. For the price, none of them compare to the SpeedTouch's versatility. Are their other products that work better in some situations etc ? Of course there are.. As stated before though, the SpeedTouch has a very reliable/consistent base of operation.
As for trouble-shooting .. of course efficiency on the phone is important. However do we force our product on clients? No. Do we have a strong recommendation? Yes. Why? We know we can rely on the results .. that inherently makes us more efficient on the phone. Which also makes the end user happier, as most clients don't want to be on the phone with tech support for hours trying to solve an issue.
As for Bell, we are not completely powerless. If we were, we wouldn't exist as people wouldn't bother dealing with us. Bell has spent vast amounts of money to setup a wholesale department just so that we can effectively and efficiently do business with them and clients/end users.
Of course we'd never try to develop a DSL modem. We are not in that line of business and why try to re-invent the wheel?
said by Bicephale :I guess we can expect more releases after this one but i begin to find it excessive to turn customers into guinea-pigs for so long and Thomson knows it: their "black-box" attitude came as a result of the ISPs (their real customers) not wanting us to look inside and i'm tempted to write it suits them well knowing that at least one FirmWare caused the unit to reboot when using 'DMT', a 3rd-party utility... Who wants a guinea-pig to decide of its own faith? Certainly not Thomson and i foresee new SpeedTouch series coming where most remaining holes have been patched conveniently. Other brands/models will be built around the sacro-saint BroadCom ChipSet so i hope one of them will be of the "Open" (GPL) type; that would justify the price-tag of a SpeedTouch!! I believe I covered this with my opening statements. Companies employee people. People are not perfect. People write code that is not perfect. Therefore fixes to the code need to be made.
When it comes to availability of Firmware, Thomson does limit the distribution. Why? So when a Telco/ISP/DSL provider finds a very comfortable DSLAM/DSL-firmware compatibility level they can control who is running what firmware to increase efficiency by having consistency in the market place. If that doesn't make sense for a business and a consumer, please inform us what does!
What's the big deal about them using Broadcom chipsets?
When it was owned by Alcatel, they used Alcatel chipsets, which only make sense. When Thomson bought the electronics division of course they changed to a company they felt was more economically appealing, whats wrong with that? I do believe all companies do this? All companies tend to have alliances with other companies they are comfortable doing business with, at least as far as I know.
At the end of the day, my point is that SpeedTouch is a good product. Has a lot of functionality that both consumers and ISPs can agree. It functions consistently. It is cost effect.
If you want higher end functionality from a $100 device, try buying a Cisco 1720 Router with the WIC-ADSL card. See if matches the $100 price tag of a SpeedTouch. Cisco can definitely hold its own. As far as I see it, the SpeedTouch's functionality isn't that far off considering the price.
Thank you,
Steve
--
TSI Steve - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
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Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| Hi TSI Steve,
There's been times when manufacturers had to write
code correctly since they engraved it permanently,
on a ROM chip. Perfection was even more difficult
to attain but it worked, nonetheless, and they did
it without ever relying on yet-to-come Flash chips
which are so forgiving they spontaneously call for
abuse! I'm not as gullible as you imagined, i can
recognize a guinea pig when i see one and no smoke
screen with "NASA" written on it will work... You
seem to suggest that i should feel "cheap" because
i didn't spend more money over this, i wonder if i
must also feel ashamed should i fail to prove that
i can beat your technical background! Please keep
in mind that i'm an ordinary customer who can't be
expected to learn and discuss about such things at
your level (i'm not the one who gets paid for it)!
Euh... Would you mind showing us numbers and, why
not, some details relatively to the test bench you
used? If we are going to debate methodology, then
it's natural to have a look at the test results on
which your high opinion of Thomson's SpeedTouch is
based! I'm not a child, provide evidence and i'll
pay attention, insult me and you loose my respect.
Attenuation levels, noise, cross-talk would do for
a start; you do have the means to reproduce those
variables, right? Otherwise it's no test bench...
I'm not asking you to evaluate my ready-made "Twin
PPP" setup, it's clear you have no spare time just
to try it (even less to comment it), euh... I got
a hint that 24 h Error Curves are possible using a
SpeedTouch but i don't require you to build a 3rd-
party tool only to please me! All i ask right now
is numbers demonstrating that i was right to buy a
SpeedTouch from TekSavvy in February, even if it's
not the backup device it was supposed to become...
Isn't that reasonable? It's not exagerated in any
way, not as if i wanted the TekSavvy staff to read
all the information i tried to provide them hoping
to be told what kind of tripple personality Bell's
line have been displaying since my subscription!!!
Lets begin with numbers and how you obtained them,
or if you prefer an easy one, to stay on topic: i
am sure many of us wonder which FirmWare to use!!!
 |
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R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| Hi Bicephale,
I'd asked Steve to answer to this as he was the best person, knowledge-wise to do so.
From a numbers standpoint, it's never been a secret as we've always sold the ST, following our stint with the GNet models.
We were running a huge difference in returns with the GNet models compared to the ST ones. To boot, they were performing much more steadily and not experiencing flakiness over 3-3.5KM over the GNets....
We'd fooled/tested with the ST, GNet and Ovislink models. The goal, unlike an end user is to get something that will be accepted by the public but at the same time very performing in the 90% or better circumstance. The ST won, which is why we went with it. The Ovislink didn't do too bad but had a different level of performance at over the 4KM+ range from the ST.
So, as far as benchmarks, we've always used the modems ourselves first to see how it was with us, and from there compared results side by side with others to see which gave the best results.... always trying to take the worst case scenario.
It's not a secret that we've identified some strengths in certain products. For example, the Gnet model performs very well and even outshines the ST within 2 to 3KM (or less) at 5Meg speeds. It seems to be able to yield better speeds.
In any case, I've stated in the past, which, again is why Steve jumped in, we can't blanket a statement on hardware as they each perform differently and have different results depending on where you trying things from.
Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
|
DKS
Damn Kidney Stones
Premium,ExMod 2002
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
clubs:
·Bell Sympatico
| said by R0CKY :In any case, I've stated in the past, which, again is why Steve jumped in, we can't blanket a statement on hardware as they each perform differently and have different results depending on where you trying things from. Rocky Well said, R0CKY. As in all DSL situations, the caveat "Your mileage may vary" is always operative. In my situation, the SpeedTouch 516v6 that mysteriously flashed to a 536v6  is a rock solid and stable modem for my situation of between 3000m and 5500m from the CO.
--
Need-based health care not greed-based health care. |
|
Bicephale
join:2005-09-24
·TekSavvy Solutions..
| reply to R0CKY
Hi Rocky,
Thanks but i already noticed that the GNet BB0060B
outerforms the SpeedTouch in my situation! I wish
i had known before spending money over it and that
is the point of objective testing for an end user.
I always suspected that the ISP's goal wasn't that
of the end user, i understand your concern about a
return rate and inventories. Nonetheless, you had
a chance to pretend being on topic so i repeat the
question: so far i see eleven FirmWares to "fool"
with (as if testing was futile) and the rest of us
wants to know one thing, which one must we use?... |
|
R0CKY
TSI Rocky
Premium,VIP
join:2005-05-19
Chatham, ON
| Bicephale,
Not sure how I'm off topic right now... and by the fact that I'm on here, as well as quite a few of my colleagues, every day, I can't see how you make the statement that we're not here for the end user.
You know, if you can't find a way to be happy with the ST, I'll gladly return your money.
Rocky
--
TSI Rocky - TekSavvy Solutions Inc. |
|
onvacation
@aol.com
| reply to Bicephale
Re: Thomson SpeedTouch 5x6v6 FirmWare v6.2.H (v6.2.17.5)
Bicephale,
You need to realize that you are 100 times more demanding than the average user, heck, even than some of the power-users that visit these forums.
Your obsession with these trivial issues with the Speedtouch modems, as well as your responses directed to the Teksavvy techs are not very nice.
They don't claim the ST modems can turn water into wine. However, this is what you seem to want it to do. Stick with what works in YOUR situation, and just leave this be.
You are a valuable asset to the DSL forums here, but you often go out of line and you've lost quite a bit of credibility amongs the regulars here. |
|
Bicephale
join:2005-09-24 | I wished to have a civilized discussion but it won't happen here. |
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macedon
Jazz me baby
Premium
join:2006-02-12
Canada
clubs:
| reply to Bicephale
TP-LINK TD 8810 on DMT
DMT and TP-LINK stats |
hi everyone
well i need some help from you DMT experts out there.
-------------
-> I just bought TP-LINK TD 8810 (has the same chip as ST516) for 30 bucks inclusive (more about this modem you can find here: »have you heard about TP-LINK dsl modem/router?)
-> i know my line is bad; i usually get 2500/450 net every day
-> However, i get better speeds with Bell Speedstream 5200 than the newly purchased broadcome based modem (bcm6338kfbg chip)
Let me know if i can somehow improve my speed based on the info, DMT snapshot, TP-LInk Stats presented
Thank you in advance! I am kind a new to this so your help will be highly appreciated.
Cheers,
macedon |
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