Arion
join:2006-07-09
Marquette, MI
 ·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to kewaynco
Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened
If you look at the hughes fap patent that was posted on the forum (at least the link was) after the new fap policy they do state that the use a "soft throttling" scheme. The system assigns you a "cir" committed information rate which is determine by the plan that your on, whether or not your on a DVB-S2 gateway for the HN7000S users, your download history, (i.e. do you download close to your plan limit every day) and other variables and they mix all that together and assign you a certain CIR.
So if you download close to the max every day then they are going to throttle you back and you might not have as good speeds as someone else with the same plan that rarely downloads as much as you do. In other words the "other" guy on your transponder might get a bigger slice of the pie then you do because he doesn't usually download as much as you do.
Knowing that I upgraded to the pro package. I rarely even exceed the home limit of 175mb a day. But since I'm "allowed" 375mb a day and usually average 150mb or less I usually get my full 1000kbps download speed and even get fairly close to that at times during peak times. Whereas others with the same system and package are slower than I am because they download more per day that I usually do.
Is it a perfect system?? Is it totally fair?? No, it isn't. But the number one complaint before the new system was about the terrible download speeds during peak times. We were getting many, many threads asking if something was wrong with their system. Now, some people still have slow speeds. Some of them have poor installs, others download a lot and are soft throttled, even some have trouble on hughes end. But all in all (my opinion only from my perspective) they have achieved a workable balance for most of there customers and it seems like the other providers are still trying to find the "sweet spot" whereas Hughes is close to achieving it. Other than the terrible customer service I have few complaints lately.
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram /Dual Boot WinXP Pro/LinxuS / Firefox 2.0.0.6 |
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Xtreme2damax
join:2007-03-21
| reply to kewaynco
Yup that Fap can be a doosie (or however you spell it). When we first got our system hooked up, I tried to finish a download of Ubuntu Linux I started beforehand. Just so happens I hit the Fap immediately within 15 minutes or less.
I was then clueless as to why I was getting Dial-Up speeds or worse when this was advertised as broadband. Also the deceptive advertising where it is compared as a worthy competitor to Cable or DSL didn't help either.
A quick google search revealed to me the Fair Access Policy which Satellite providers impose on their subscribers. Before the new FAP went in to effect on April 16th the service was much better or usable with Fap and recovery rate wasn't as long as it is now with the service being usable again 4 hours after hitting the Fap.
Luckily and magically I haven't hit Fap in almost a week which is a miracle really. Perhaps hughes is listening and addressing the problems some of us were having.
I just schedule all of my downloads and/or Youtube videos for 3am - 6am EST, which isn't much of a problem since I am not working a job anyways. I'll also be moving out of my parents house into the city in my own apartment where Time Warner Roadrunner is available as well as other broadband ISP's so I'll be saying goodbye to hughes in a while too as well. 
So for now until I move I just use the special hughes proxy to avoid turbo page and TCP acceleration related errors when Fap'd, learn from others as well as help others on this forum. |
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dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
Eureka, CA
| reply to kewaynco
said by kewaynco  :someone else has said that, at less than 50% usage, I am one of the BAD people. Well, you won't find me saying you are one of the BAD people (or abuser, which is the word that was used). In my case that would be highly hypocritical, since I probably average twice the usage that you say you are using.
My arguments here are about a sense of "entitlement" to something which you may get 99% of the time, but are never "entitled" to. You are not paying for 500MB per day. You are not entitled to any break whatsoever, from anybody, when you hit FAP, even if it's the very first time and you don't know about it. That's what this thread has been about, as simply as I can put it.
I likewise lack any entitlement, on an account that costs twice what yours does. I have about the same percentage leeway you do, between what I average and what I can get before FAP, and I've occasionally been FAPped. When I am, I tap my foot very impatiently, but blame nobody but myself and ask for no consideration from others.
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W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|HughesNet IA8/1410/7000 2-watt Business Internet on .98 meter fixed | Datastorm .98 XF2 2-watt on 1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel! |
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kewaynco
join:2007-07-21
Berryville, AR
| I'll say just a few more things, which was the other point of my post:
I have found Hughes' tech support people to be much more helpful and patient than those with my previous ISP - Wildblue.
Hughes provides more helpful tools to its customers so they can see what is going on.
Maybe some day Wildblue will be as good as Hughes. But they were not, which is why I switched (my daughter had Hughes when it was DirecWay and she lives 3/10 mile from me and has never had a single real problem - she turned her nose up at us when we went with Wildblue).
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Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off |
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seaweedsl
join:2006-08-23
Mexico
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to kewaynco
That's great news that you got an intelligent answer from the Hughes sales director. And some of the details are interesting.
As far as FAP goes, for now, just install hpFAPmon and tell it what your account is. Watching it will teach you a lot about how FAP works.
hpFAPmon will do the calculating for you, but, so you understand, here's some details - as far as we can tell:
The 500MB or whatever is your "bucket size". It's not really a per day measurement. Each plan has a bucket size. Each plan also has a fill rate. I'm on Small office, so my fill rate is just over 100 kbps.
You start out with a full bucket.
At any given time, if you are using more bandwidth (downloading, usually) than your fill rate, then you are draining your bucket. If I am downloading at 1000 kbps, then I'm draining my bucket pretty fast. If I'm streaming music at 150kbps, I'm also draining it, but with the refill rate factored in, not much. At 150kbps it will take hours to use up my whole bucket.
As soon as you stop streaming or downloading, or any time your usage is less than your refill rate, then your bucket is refilling. So, you could download 400MB very quickly, then let your bucket refill for a couple hours and do it again. If it's done strategically, you can actually get more than your bucket limit within 24 without Fapping.
But if, at any point, you do empty your bucket, then you're FAPped. What the rules are at that point is still somewhat of a mystery, but it's advisible to keep your modem on and your surfing light for the next 12-24 hours depending on your plan. No updates!
In any case, as someone said, at the rate your posted usage shows, you should not get fapped with any plan.
Use your system as you need to, but be strategic. If you find that your bucket is not big enough or the refill rate not fast enough, go to a higher plan.
Steve
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DW7000,2 watt .98, Small Office, G11, 1050 WHR-HP-G54/DD-WRT
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dougau
Premium
join:2007-08-09
Dickson, TN
 ·AT&T Southeast
| I had DW for four years. Thank God in the last two weeks AT&T has finally started offering DSL in my area and now I can actually download a season of Battle Star Glactia from Itunes or Windows updates without fear of a FAP. When I canceled Hughes I did give them a big speech about the unfair FAP policy. Maybe it'll help but i doubt it. All I can say is good luck to everyone and pray for DSL or cable in your aria soon.
If you live in a aria that had Bell South phone service it seems AT&T is trying to expand DSL in those arias the old Bell South didn't cover so keep checking their web site to see if your line is DSL capable. Finally after four years it happened for me. |
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recola
@covad.net
| reply to kewaynco
So, you did your research, and yet you emailed the company claiming ignorance of the FAP.
Hundreds of people do that every single day. You let someone slide once, you get people asking to slide again, you get people who swear up and down that they couldn't have downloaded that much data, but turns out that they did.
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laserfan
join:2005-01-14
Blanco, TX
| reply to kewaynco
kewaynco yours is an interesting story, but I'm shaking my head that you thought just cuz you are new to HN and made a mistake with it that an exception should be made on your behalf and Hughes should override the FAP for you! If they do it for one, then they have to do it for everybody. Doesn't sound reasonable to me. 
I just did a similar bonehead thing here when I set-up Free Download Manager to DL and save radar weather images every five minutes. I thought this would be a clever way to at least have a record of the last radar before the link drops-out (which it usually does when a storm comes-up). Ya know, when you most need the Internet (in a thunderstorm), it fails you! Anyway, today I find that these images get bigger if the radar becomes complex (duh) and I hit the FAP at almost exactly 500Mb in 24 hours.
Never have I hit the New FAP before! So today the 'net is unusable, and w/o knowing I'm FAPPED I spend some long minutes troubleshooting and among the things I do is unplug the modem to reset it. So here I sit:
1. Apparently unplugging the modem extends my pain another 24hrs
2. My download speeds are only 10kbps which means "dead in the water" for at least the start of this long, rainy holiday weekend! DAMN!
It seems to me that with tho old FAP speeds dropped to 56k Modem levels, but 10k is nasty, downright ridiculous--completely, utterly unusable. Now I know first-hand what everyone here has been complaining about all summer!!!  |
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dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
Eureka, CA
| said by laserfan :1. Apparently unplugging the modem extends my pain another 24hrs That is unlikely in the extreme. Unplugging the modem and having FAP continue has only been associated with LEAVING it off. Even that is controversial - there are enough variations on the 24-hour FAP that it is hard to say for sure if on or off actually matters. |
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taylorb
join:2007-06-16
Bridgeville, CA | reply to kewaynco
wait.
the tech support for Hughes told me to unplug the modem for 24 hours when i first called them about getting throttled.
is there a different thing to do besides that?  |
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dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
Eureka, CA
| If there is any advantage to unplugging the modem it is simply that there is no continued usage, which can extend FAP. The same is accomplished by unplugging the computer or router from the modem while leaving the modem on, or simply not allowing the computer to access the internet.
There is anecdotal evidence that sometimes when the NOC cannot talk to the modem it may extend FAP. Hard to be sure.
Realistically, those here "experienced with FAP" typically leave everything connected and then limit their usage to very, very, little, which is made easier to do because everything is so slow.
--
W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|HughesNet IA8/1410/7000 2-watt Business Internet on .98 meter fixed | Datastorm .98 XF2 2-watt on 1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel! |
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Xtreme2damax
join:2007-03-21
| reply to laserfan
quote:
Apparently unplugging the modem extends my pain another 24hrs
I unplug the modem everytime we get Fap'd and we still come out of it everytime at exactly 24 hours later. So I observed that unplugging the modem does not affect anything with Fap or doesn't extend your Fap period.  |
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laserfan
join:2005-01-14
Blanco, TX
| reply to dbirdman
dbirdman I'd been led to believe somewhere in this thread that unplugging the modem would "reset" and extend my 24-hour FAP countdown. That is incorrect, or I misunderstood, but in any case thanks for your feedback.
I had unplugged my modem to cold-boot it mid-way thru my ordeal, but that in no way affected my FAP imprisonment--it lasted exactly 24 hours...
Free again, free again... 
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DW6000CEv5.4.0.20, G13/H1@127W, 1270MHz, SigTyp74, Toshiba Magnia SG10, LinksysBEFW11S4w, Airlink8portswitch, AirlinkAR410Wwireless, 10-20clients & 6+OSes |
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dbirdman
Premium,MVM
join:2003-07-07
Eureka, CA
| said by laserfan :dbirdman I'd been led to believe somewhere in this thread that unplugging the modem would "reset" and extend my 24-hour FAP countdown. The starting post of this thread said that the OP had been advised to unplug the modem (and leave it off), and had then been advised on a subsequent call that this was a bad idea that could extend FAP. Two pieces of bad tech advice, about par for the course.
There are anecdotes about leaving the modem off and having FAP extended (none, to my knowledge, about any FAP reset just from unplugging/plugging). The problem with such anecdotes is that they are countered by many other anecdotes that did not have a problem with the modem being off, and whether off or on there are cases where FAP has not been exactly 24 hours. |
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c150L
join:2004-06-30
New London, WI
1 edit | Just a guess on unplugging the modem and extending the 24 hour penalty box. Due to a recent 24 hour uFAP penalty I had imposed on me, I was tracking dangerous storms into our area. All my one PC was doing was updating the NWS moving doplar radar. In this one particular hour, I allegedly DL 171 mb, which pushed me over the 200mb limit and I litterally had no internet for the next 24 hours.
More recent tests, I updated the same NWS radar imagery 5 time and it took me 15 minutes. The recorded usage on Hughes web page indicated about .49mb for those 5 refreshes in that 15 minute period. There was no other usage in that hour.
On that stormy day, when I allegedly DL 171mb, my system was offline at least 75% of that hour due to storms/cloud cover.
So, how could I have DL 171mb? I suspect that my numerous refresh attempts may have been received by Hughes NOC, which in turn continually tried to push back out to my modem, which was RED Dottted, due to low signal. I suspect that seeing that info was trying to be pushed to my system, it all counted towards my 171mb. That is the only possibility where 171mb could have been sent my way. I never received 171mb, but was charged for it.
In the case of someone remaining in Hughes' 24 hour P-Box,with the modem off, perhaps an undelivered file or web page(from the NOC) continues to attempt delivery, even though the modem is off. (In my case, the storm was keeping my modem off line) One turns the thing on, the transfer is completed, stopped and/or interrupted in some way, now one starts to pay his 24 hour penalty.
Just a hunch, but it's the only way I can explain downloading 171mb in that one hour, when my system was off line 75% of that same hour AND all I was doing was refreshing those little radar images.
I recently had a 1+ hour rip session with Hughes tech(?!) support and the billing department and neither of those 2 guys even attempted to explain my being FAPPED for 24 hours for this 171mb DL when my system was out of service 75% of that hour. Thus, I have to come to my own conclusion.
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Win 2K and Win XP
DW6000 CE on AMC3 1290
Linksys BEFW11S4 |
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mickier
join:2006-08-22
Moss, TN
| reply to kewaynco
 WOW!
The hnFAPMon application at SourceForge works GREAT!
It now has a little Icon in the taskbar that shows your FAP status!
KEWL KEWL KEWL!!!!!
It even takes into account the FAP-FREE zone.
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Hughesnet/HN7000S/GC3(95W)-1360Mhz/signalstr=80/Pro Plan/0.74 Dish/WinXP/P3-3Ghz-1.5Gb Ram/IE6/ |
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kewaynco
join:2007-07-21
Berryville, AR | reply to dbirdman
OK. It is NOT anecdotal. I was told that by more than one person from Hughes, including those higher up the food chain than the supervisor, to wit, "DO NOT UNPLUG MODEM as that will increase the 24-hour period". |
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Xtreme2damax
join:2007-03-21
| Which is wrong, as I do this everytime we are Fap'd and come out of it at exactly 24 Hours later regardless.
Hughesnet doesn't have a clue over have the time what they are talking about seeing as they can't give us clear answers on the workings of a Fair Access Policy which they created so we can better avoid the clutches of Fap so we better know our limits. Indian tech support is much worse with almost entirely no idea about anything only relying on pre-published scripts or books.
Luckily I haven't had to deal with Fap in over a week even though we've been excessively browsing the web on two or three different computers. Perhaps Hughes has finally heard our complaints and fixed the problems some of us were having. |
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v8rail
join:2003-10-13
Ash Fork, AZ
·HughesNet Satellit..
| reply to kewaynco
As usual when you ask two HN tech support persons you get five different answers.....
---- that's because the higher up in the footchain of HN tech support have also no clue how HN Fap works :uhh
for me it made no difference ...
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Verizon Wireless Rev A, DW7000 with .74 dish (soon to be a birdbath) |
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HN User
@direcpc.com
| reply to dbirdman
Sadly, the false assumptions here are yours. Again, you are acting as if HughesNet's word via advertising and technical support doesn't matter. It does.
The "Fair Access Policy" is not based on our fair access to the service for which we pay good money but on their fair access to their profit and a very behind-the-times set of bandwidth thresholds they refuse to invest in upgrading. If they'd upgrade their systems, both those that provide bandwidth and those that provide customer service, they'd see a lot more happy users instead of a lot of unhappy users clamoring for any other alternative.
Here's the simple math. No happy customers = no happy billing dept. = no happy investors = no Huhgesnet |
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