Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened in HughesNet Satellite

Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened in HughesNet Satellite http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18978532 en Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:14:39 EDT Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:14:39 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19095511 CMoore2004 : spcsdns.net - 815/279 kbit
(726 samples last 14 days)

»/mspeed?domains=1

Perhaps looking at more reputable sites is a good idea.
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Charter 5M | Windows XP MCE SP2 | Mobile AMD Athlon 64 4000+ | 1.5GB RAM | ATI Mobile Radeon X600 128MB | 120GB HDD]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19095511 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 00:24:46 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19095462 Argus P : I have been researching the EVDO things for a week now and one website listed the pros and cons of the different wireless providers and one of the pros of Verizon was faster speeds across the board, the cons was the TOS/5 gig cap ( but read this: »www.evdoforums.com/thread5965.html ). I have been to a couple of hundred sites so I couldn't begin to tell you were this was that said Verizon was faster. Another plus for Verizon was that PC5750 modem was free and Verizon has dropped the price to $59 without a qualifing voice plan which it used to be $79.

My buddy is a EE and used to maintain large commercial radio station transmiters for a living and he seems to think that the 20 ft or so of cable might not hurt that bad, particularly if I get an antenna with a fair amount of gain to begin with.

One thing I noticed this afternoon driving around the area with a laptop is that I hit a Rev A broadband conection that only had one bar, but the testmynet test was 575 down and "UP", amazing to say the least after using Hughes.
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Direcway-DW7000/Pro Dynamic, G4R - 1110 Mhz. XPpro/SP 2, 5 users (up to Six PCs) on Lynksys WRT54G Wieless Router - 1075 Down/180 Up consistantly]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19095462 Tue, 18 Sep 2007 00:14:19 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19093873 CMoore2004 : Just out of curiosity, where do you get the idea that Sprint's speeds are slower? I've heard many claims about Verizon crippling their EVDO service. If you can get Sprint, I'd recommend going that way.

And if you get an external yagi antenna, you're likely to lose much of the gain with the long cable. I'd recommend an amplifier instead.

I'm still in disbelief that someone would say Sprint's speeds are slower than Verizon's. Perhaps some references would help me believe there are people crazy enough to make this claim.
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Charter 5M | Windows XP MCE SP2 | Mobile AMD Athlon 64 4000+ | 1.5GB RAM | ATI Mobile Radeon X600 128MB | 120GB HDD]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19093873 Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:23:21 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19093693 Argus P : I was fully satisfied with Direcway/Hughesnet performance when I purchased it 3 years ago last month. I got close to what was advertised speeds day-in & day-out over those three years with an occasional hiccup, but understandable with this type of technology. I also came from town with previous internet service provided by RoadRunner Cable, so I do know the difference between the two, Hughesnet is inherently slower due to the technology, but I accepted it and learned to live with it, FAP and all. What I am unwilling to accept is the current slowness of browsing, email and just plain poor overall performance of a service I am paying $80/month for. If Hughes could continuously provide the level of service they did for 3 years on the money I paid them, I fully expect them to continue to do so now, even raise my rate if inflation makes it more costly to do this business these days.

Below are the speeds I have been getting for the last week:

September 17th, 11:22PM - 59/129 kbps
September 17th, 08:38AM - 734/148 kbps
September 16th, 11:17PM - 554/140 kbps
September 16th, 08:24AM - 736/149 kbps
September 15th, 10:16PM - 198/137 kbps
September 15th, 09:03AM - 683/148 kbps
September 15th, 12:02AM - 266/146 kbps
September 14th, 11:27PM - 89/144 kbps
September 14th, 08:44AM - 721/147 kbps
September 13th, 06:36PM - 89/37 kbps
September 13th, 12:30PM - 431/127 kbps
September 13th, 12:07PM - 585/139 kbps
September 13th, 12:05PM - 625/138 kbps
September 13th, 08:59AM - 730/146 kbps
September 12th, 09:23PM - 50/95 kbps
September 12th, 04:44PM - 138/80 kbps
September 12th, 04:40PM - 93/117 kbps
September 12th, 03:29PM - 725/146 kbps
September 12th, 02:09PM - 554/145 kbps
September 12th, 01:05PM - 514/133 kbps
September 12th, 08:58AM - 677/161 kbps
September 12th, 01:49AM - 853/142 kbps
September 12th, 12:49AM - 791/145 kbps
September 12th, 12:46AM - 857/142 kbps
September 12th, 12:43AM - 838/148 kbps
September 12th, 12:20AM - 536/142 kbps
September 11th, 11:26PM - 104/121 kbps
September 11th, 11:25PM - 107/114 kbps

Early morning has been fine, not what I used to get, but close enough to live with. Afternoons and evenings are a completely different matter. Just checked 15 mins ago and I had 59 down and 129 up. Everything slow as molasses.

The Verizon modem came in late this morning and got it activated a few hours ago. Can’t get Broadband Rev A here at the house, but can close by. I went up on the roof after supper and got a Broadband Rev A signal there, weak, but stable with quick browsing. I guess I’ll order a roof mount external antenna and see if that helps as I have 30 days to cancel the service. I am aware of Verizon’s TOS and have looked at my monthly usage, could be a go. I also have Sprint EVDO as an option and they are truly unlimited usage from what I have read, just overall speeds appear to be slower, coverage looks better for my area though.

If you don’t take care of your customers, the shareholders have no business to own. It’s called balance.
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Direcway-DW7000/Pro Dynamic, G4R - 1110 Mhz. XPpro/SP 2, 5 users (up to Six PCs) on Lynksys WRT54G Wieless Router - 1075 Down/180 Up consistantly]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19093693 Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:57:52 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19089923 Arion : I can boil it down pretty easily I think. Satellite Internet is what it is and ain't what it ain't. They problem comes when people have had dsl/cable/wireless and expect the satellite internet to be the same level of performance at the same price and then complain bitterly when it isn't.

A number don't get close to the performance that is advertised. Some of that comes from poor or shoddy installs and others from being on overcrowded gateways. The rare times I've had multi day slowdowns has been remedied when Hughes load balanced.

In many rural areas were never going to see cable or wireless unless you want the congress to mandate it as an inherent right. It's just too expensive for companies to make the investment looking at how few customers there are to pay the bills in those areas.

I could move back to the big city but no thanks. I'll stay in the boonies where I can watch the deer, bear, wolves and occasional moose while I sit by the fire and have a cup of coffee surfing the net at 1000kbps down most of the time. Pretty good trade off to me... :)
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HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram /Dual Boot WinXP Pro/LinxuS / Firefox 2.0.0.6]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19089923 Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:16:37 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19089839 hjriver :

said by Argus P

said by dbirdman

said by Argus P

:

The real world to me is that Hughes has been selling of a portion of the service that I had been paying for to someone else, but didn't share the proceeds with me.

And it will never matter to you that this is not true. Your performance went down, and it must be due to greed or a conspiracy. You are wrong, but unconvincable.

This is why I have a Verizon BroadBandAccess package on the way and if it works it's bye-bye hughesnet.

What are you going to do when you reach Verizons' 5GB monthly limit? Their TOS plainly states the service is intended for internet browsing and email all other functions are prohibited. I looked into it as I can well get it and talked to their customer service. It ain't for me. Now it would be a different story if I could get Sprint EVDO.

HN overall is not that bad most of the time as long as one doesn't have to deal with their customer service in India. I can't complain much about my speeds as they usually are up to par. I think some people just have misconceptions of how the service works. BTW, Hughesnets primary concern is the return on the shareholders investement, not making you happy.

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HN7000S/Satmex6/1190/0.78/pro-plus/Sig level: 65]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19089839 Mon, 17 Sep 2007 10:03:20 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088806 CMoore2004 : A public corporation HAS to be more concerned with their shareholders. In case you don't understand the concept, it is the shareholders that own the business.

Before I argue some things you said, I'll agree with a few.

Many people are seeing decreasing speeds, even the long-time customers
I also agree that they somehow took bandwidth that was ours and gave it to someone else when they changed the FAP. In all reality, with the FAP-free time, it's much larger. But I think the people that were customers before the new FAP should have been able to stick with the old, where you could have a usable service by waiting 30 minutes or so.

Now, you seem to have cited other technology advances and how their prices are going down while their quality is going up. In case you're forgetting, these operate on licensed frequencies. You can't just make more of these when you run out. Last I knew, satellites were also very expensive. I don't foresee the price of the satellite transponder leases to go down.

I'm not any longer a HughesNet customer, but understand the frustrations. At the end of the day, I usually felt it was a lot better than dial-up. Reliability was around 99% (averaged all the years I had it).

Some here on the forum think that HughesNet's residential market will fade over the next few years, while some will argue that the most remote areas still won't have coverage. I'm not sure about 2-5 years, but I can't imagine in 10 years what will be available. Perhaps they'll have towers with the 700MHz spectrum they're supposed to offer soon that will travel many miles. Maybe broadband by blimp. Maybe they'll have the very small satellites that sit just outside the atmosphere covering smaller areas with frequency reuse and lower latencies. Right now, Hughes has to please its investors.

On another note, many people will download 2+GB/night with their FAP-free time. Give that a try with your Verizon card. They can terminate you JUST for watching a streaming video. How's that for an inherent right? My Sprint serves me well, and I wouldn't do business with a company like Verizon anyways.
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Charter 5M | Windows XP MCE SP2 | Mobile AMD Athlon 64 4000+ | 1.5GB RAM | ATI Mobile Radeon X600 128MB | 120GB HDD]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088806 Mon, 17 Sep 2007 01:34:57 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088708 dbirdman :

said by Argus P

:

You can't tell me that hughes has not over-sold the bandwidth to a very serious extreme

No, I can't

and at the expense of long time customers.

Yes, I can.

The difference in the two answers is because they have ALWAYS severely oversold the bandwidth, and there is zero objective evidence that the overselling has changed. The fact that you may have been lucky enough to be on a gateway with just a bunch of e-mailers in the past, and now are on one with others who use it just as you do, does not change this premise.

I also understand from reading your posts over the years that hughesnet has a large part in what you do for a livelihood

Then you fully misunderstand. The Internet has a great deal to do with the way I make my livlihood. Satellite, whether by Hughes, iDirect, or UnaSat (had them for a short while) is simply my method for accessing the internet when it would otherwise be impossible. That is true for most here.

The day I find a way to string a cable or phone line behind my bus I will be as happy as the next guy to drop satellite. I could also choose to travel only where there is EVDO, just as all of the others here could choose to move away from where they are. We weigh all factors, and for hundreds of thousands of us there are more important things, whether lifestyle or economic factors, that place us where only satellite will do. Now if you can show me someone where Hughes has placed a gun to their head and said "Live there" that will be a different thing entirely.

On the hobby side I have chosen to support other mobile users, both with forums and with software. It happens that most have Hughes, so that ties me rather heavily to the Hughes modem and is why I am keeping a Hughes account even though I rarely need it for my own access. I doubt my hobby costs more than the hobbies of many here.

In a thunder/wind storm here this evening in Cheyenne I did put my big dish down to protect it and used the Hughes account on the small dish - nice having a fallback.
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W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|iDirect 3100 on Datastorm 1.2 meter XF3 with 4-watt BUC|HughesNet IA8/1390/7000s Pro on Datastorm .74 F1|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088708 Mon, 17 Sep 2007 01:01:56 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088354 Argus P :

said by dbirdman

said by Argus P

:

The real world to me is that Hughes has been selling of a portion of the service that I had been paying for to someone else, but didn't share the proceeds with me.

And it will never matter to you that this is not true. Your performance went down, and it must be due to greed or a conspiracy. You are wrong, but unconvincable.

This is why I have a Verizon BroadBandAccess package on the way and if it works it's bye-bye hughesnet.

The "if it works" is that the average throughput on Verizon looks to be around 800k which is the best that hughes has been able to deliver lately and if I get a reasonable/stable signal where I am. The coverage in my area for Verizon and Sprint is something newly available and according to Verizon's maps, their highest speed coverage ends just across the street from my new home, so I feel pretty sure it will work. For 2 years I have been getting a stable 1075/175 from hughes, pretty much 24/7. Lately that has not been the case, 750/140 is the best it gets and between 3pm and 12am central it's more like 105/120 which is absolutely ridiculous for this service. You can't tell me that hughes has not over-sold the bandwidth to a very serious extreme and at the expense of long time customers. They are also luring in new customers with the promise of speeds that they will not be able to deliver on even a reasonably consistent basis. That is actually fraudulent advertising, but hughesnet will pull out the fine print to prevent these people from doing something about it. I also understand from reading your posts over the years that hughesnet has a large part in what you do for a livelihood and/or hobby, but don't defend them to the extent that you overlook the fact that hughesnet is way more concerned with the shareholders of the corporation than the customers.
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Direcway-DW7000/Pro Dynamic, G4R - 1110 Mhz. XPpro/SP 2, 5 users (up to Six PCs) on Lynksys WRT54G Wieless Router - 1075 Down/180 Up consistantly]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088354 Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:46:30 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088220 or270 : I have not other choice but dial-up,Just have to make the best of it, have the proplus plan just for the extra room. The FAP free time between 3-6 am eastern time helps especially since I am trying out Directv's Video on demand, able to download a little over 2GB in 3 hours.

As soon as Frontier gives me the promised DSL I'm gone.
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HN7000S/satmex5 1170/.74 1 watt/Sig 77/ProPlus
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19088220 Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:24:39 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19087137 fell_away : Like I said: my previous ISPs never gave me a problem or reason to doubt them. Only on satellite do I realize just how lucky cable subscribers are and I was. I'm sure my constant downloading made a difference somewhere along the line, but not for me or any other people I knew who subscribed to the same service. The prices only kept going DOWN and the speeds only kept going UP.

I don't know why anyone would call me wrong for wanting more? Do you not use the internet? Download music, videos, software?

And where does anyone get the greed and conspiracy thing? I have no idea what you are talking about. HN's market will eventually start shrinking once newer, faster, better, and easier technologies begin to spread and leak into even the most rural locations leaving room for only subscribers that use HN for their RV.

I'm not trolling just trying to understand the "whys".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19087137 Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:31:56 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19084051 dbirdman :

said by Argus P

:

The real world to me is that Hughes has been selling of a portion of the service that I had been paying for to someone else, but didn't share the proceeds with me.

And it will never matter to you that this is not true. Your performance went down, and it must be due to greed or a conspiracy. You are wrong, but unconvincable.

This is why I have a Verizon BroadBandAccess package on the way and if it works it's bye-bye hughesnet.

Do you expect to get an argument about that? The key is in "if it works" which it would not for an awful lot of people on satellite. If it does, do you think people, just because they are reasonably satisfied with their satellite connections, would tell you that you are crazy to jump ship? You are only crazy if that's what you think!
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W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|iDirect 3100 on Datastorm 1.2 meter XF3 with 4-watt BUC|HughesNet IA8/1390/7000s Pro on Datastorm .74 F1|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19084051 Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:18:02 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19083990 Argus P :

said by Bill00

said by fell_away

:

...But as far as I'm concerned it is my inherent right no matter what ISP I pay for to have a limitless data flow...

I don't know if you are just trolling or if you are serious about this.

If the latter, you might seriously consider joining The Real World. In TRW, TANSTAAFL applies (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch).

Who do you think is supposed to subsidize your 'inherent right...to have a limitless data flow,' either in reduced bandwidth for the rest of us or in higher prices to compensate the vendor? In TRW, someone ALWAYS pays the freight.

On a positive note, you CAN exercise your 'Inherent Right;' all you have to do is get with an ISP who will gladly sell you a dedicated connection such as a T1 or similar, or even a dedicated satellite link with guaranteed throughput and unlimited data. All you have to do is come up with the up-front installation costs (most likely in the 4 digit range) and add a couple of zeroes to your current monthly ISP bill.

Welcome to The Real World!

Bill.

In the early/middle '70s my Dad bought a VCR for $800. It was grainy, expensive, slow to fast forward/rewind, but acceptable for the time. Blank tapes were $20+ each.

Today we have DVD for $40. It's sharp & clear, cheap and if you have a recorder, blanks are about $.25.

Technology has progressed and brought a lot of things to the masses for a reasonable cost. The masses expect things to make their lives easier/better for cheaper. Companies realize this and the ones who deliver make vast amounts of money.

I have friends not very far away that have cable or DSL. They pay less than I do and have better performance. Is it wrong for me to expect the same thing for my home and my family? I understood the limitations of hughesnet when I bought into it and was satisfied with the performance....then. Today it ain't cutting it, although I am paying for a higher plan than before I have a more restrictive FAP and the performance of the system is considerably less today than it was 6 months ago. The real world to me is that Hughes has been selling of a portion of the service that I had been paying for to someone else, but didn't share the proceeds with me. This reduced performance and higher costs goes against every other business model out there right now. This is why I have a Verizon BroadBandAccess package on the way and if it works it's bye-bye hughesnet. YMMV
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Direcway-DW7000/Pro Dynamic, G4R - 1110 Mhz. XPpro/SP 2, 5 users (up to Six PCs) on Lynksys WRT54G Wieless Router - 1075 Down/180 Up consistantly]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19083990 Sun, 16 Sep 2007 08:56:43 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19082684 Argus P :

said by kewaynco

:

The other problem with Hughes is their "transmission failure policy". They say 25% is acceptable. I agree if it is 25% over a long period of time.

However, I experience transmission failures of 80% or 90% within a two or three minute period (I've kept track - I know, I should get a life). A 90% failure rate is totally unacceptable.

Looks like you had a crappy install/point. My transmission error rate over the last three or 4 days is about .22% (2254 failed against 1019455 successful). Might need to gripe about the install and see if they will float you a repoint.
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Direcway-DW7000/Pro Dynamic, G4R - 1110 Mhz. XPpro/SP 2, 5 users (up to Six PCs) on Lynksys WRT54G Wieless Router - 1075 Down/180 Up consistantly]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19082684 Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:37:54 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19080001 laserfan :

said by dbirdman

:

I finally (mostly) jumped the HN ship two days ago... I retained a low-end Hughes account for testing...

Glad you will still be around, then! :whew: :D

I would "jump ship" myself if I had any better options--but I do not. HN is what it is, and I for one am VERY GLAD it exists, and is reasonably priced too.
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DW6000CEv5.4.0.20, G13/H1@127W, 1270MHz, SigTyp74, Toshiba Magnia SG10, LinksysBEFW11S4w, Airlink8portswitch, AirlinkAR410Wwireless, 10-20clients & 6+OSes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19080001 Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:19:39 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19079396 dbirdman :

said by fell_away

:

I realize the FAP is in effect because satellites do have limitations as far as throughput and usage on a national basis is concerned, but that doesn't make me any more content with it.

I think you hit the whole thing right there. You realize the reasons it has to be there, but you are not content. I hope nobody here is saying that people should be contented, just realistic.

There are very few HN users so happy with their service that they would not jump at the first cable or DSL offering that comes their way.

We have these arguments continuously, and those of us who "realize" try to get others to do so as well - you can't make consumer satellite into something other than what it is. Remain discontented, but stop trying to make it into something about greed, incompetence, or conspiracy.

I finally (mostly) jumped the HN ship two days ago in favor of a much more costly iDirect account (costly in terms of both hardware and service) simply because I could justify it. I retained a low-end Hughes account for testing, since I write so much software against the modem and and I have to concern myself with them breaking it.
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W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|iDirect 3100 on Datastorm 1.2 meter XF3 with 4-watt BUC|HughesNet IA8/1390/7000s Pro on Datastorm .74 F1|1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19079396 Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:11:57 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19078922 laserfan :

said by fell_away

:

...as far as I'm concerned it is my inherent right no matter what ISP I pay for to have a limitless data flow. You can debate my opinion...

No need to debate--your position is completely untenable. What is ironic of course is that you are complaining about something that is in place precisely because of this kind of thinking/attitude/wrongheadedness! :p
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DW6000CEv5.4.0.20, G13/H1@127W, 1270MHz, SigTyp74, Toshiba Magnia SG10, LinksysBEFW11S4w, Airlink8portswitch, AirlinkAR410Wwireless, 10-20clients & 6+OSes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19078922 Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:01:37 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19078905 Bill00 :

said by fell_away

:

...But as far as I'm concerned it is my inherent right no matter what ISP I pay for to have a limitless data flow...

said by fell_away

:

That's right as some of you point out I apparently abuse my ISP privileges. When I had a 10mbps connection my usage was in excess of 200gb per month. But as far as I'm concerned it is my inherent right no matter what ISP I pay for to have a limitless data flow.

Is it any wonder that HN is the only of many ISPs I have ever had that limits data flow? Even during peak usage periods on dial up, dsl, and cable I never had any problems with any of my ISPs and I was very happy until I had to go with satellite internet to even marginally function online.

You can debate my opinion, but HN has tightened their FAP since a few months ago which I see as a step in the wrong direction. I realize the FAP is in effect because satellites do have limitations as far as throughput and usage on a national basis is concerned, but that doesn't make me any more content with it.

And....thus the need for FAP. BTW HN is not the only ISP putting limits on. Comcast, Alltel wireless and many others are finding the need to slow down the hogs.
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HN7000S/Satmex6/1190/0.78/pro-plus/Sig level: 65]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19076714 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:10:54 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19076234 fell_away : This is quite an interesting thread. Unfortunately I am seeing a lot of defense for the FAP as opposed to outrage.

I am not a new HughesNet user. I have had 2 installs over the past 6 months. The first, I cancelled because I moved out of Alabama and back to Pennsylvania. In PA, my local cable company offered 10mbps broadband which I subscribed to.

But I moved back and to my dismay HN changed their FAP since I was last a subscriber. The first time around once I hit the FAP, which I did daily, I would be limited to about 25kbps actual download speeds and I wouldn't have to wait 24 hours, rather there was a recovery rate that allowed me to leave the FAP within 3-4 hours depending on my usage.

That's right as some of you point out I apparently abuse my ISP privileges. When I had a 10mbps connection my usage was in excess of 200gb per month. But as far as I'm concerned it is my inherent right no matter what ISP I pay for to have a limitless data flow.

Is it any wonder that HN is the only of many ISPs I have ever had that limits data flow? Even during peak usage periods on dial up, dsl, and cable I never had any problems with any of my ISPs and I was very happy until I had to go with satellite internet to even marginally function online.

You can debate my opinion, but HN has tightened their FAP since a few months ago which I see as a step in the wrong direction. I realize the FAP is in effect because satellites do have limitations as far as throughput and usage on a national basis is concerned, but that doesn't make me any more content with it.
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HN Home Plan - HN7000S]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19076234 Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:42:06 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19041032 v8rail : That's why I told it first ... I'm considered a bad guy tooo :D ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19041032 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:38:24 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039719 laserfan :

said by JLDunn

:

I have an elderly neighbor lady who saw the Hughesnet commercials and was ready to order. She wanted to provide an internet connection for her kids/grandkids who have cable in the city because when they visit they complain that they cannot download U Tube, TV shows and movies etc.

Hmm, I thought it was only the parents today who are responsible for the excessive exposure of children to (mostly useless) video, audio/music, and computer games.

Shame on you, grandma! :p
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DW6000CEv5.4.0.20, G13/H1@127W, 1270MHz, SigTyp74, Toshiba Magnia SG10, LinksysBEFW11S4w, Airlink8portswitch, AirlinkAR410Wwireless, 10-20clients & 6+OSes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19039719 Sun, 09 Sep 2007 09:28:49 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19038586 anon :

said by kewaynco

:

(....) And someone else has said that, at less than 50% usage, I am one of the BAD people.

You will find that response is not out of the norm when you start dragging HN's con into the light.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19038586 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 23:43:49 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19037520 c150L :

said by JLDunn

:

I suspect that there are thousands of satellite subscribers who have no idea that they do not have true broadband.

And there would not be anything misleading in their ads either....
--
Win 98 and Win 2K DW6000 CE on AMC3 1290 Linksys BEFW11S4

]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19037520 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:21:29 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19037373 taylorb : get hnFAPmon its a great program.
does NOT change the fact that you will get FAPped if you go over your limit but at least you can monintor EVERYTHING using it.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19037373 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:54:15 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19035554 JLDunn : I suspect that there are thousands of satellite subscribers who have no idea that they do not have true broadband. Only when some family member starts downloading U Tube, movies, or music and they get hit by the FAP do they realize something is wrong. They see the news reports talking about all the things one can do nowadays on the internet and think they can do the same things. Hughes does not say anything in their advertising to discourage them from signing up.

I have an elderly neighbor lady who saw the Hughesnet commercials and was ready to order. She wanted to provide an internet connection for her kids/grandkids who have cable in the city because when they visit they complain that they cannot download U Tube, TV shows and movies etc.. After I explained to her how little they could download with a 400MB limit and the penalty if they go over she wisely decided not to order. Probably many non-technical people do not find this out until later.
--
Hughes | HN7000S Pro Plus| SatMex5 1050mhz | 256k 2/3 (TC) | Win XP SP2 | static addr.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19035554 Sat, 08 Sep 2007 13:39:41 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19032934 dbirdman : Simply amazing that there are people who continue to think that somehow there are "upgrade" which can be done to turn consumer satellite into something it can't be. Sigh.

Good satellite service is out there for the asking. All it takes is $$$ and there are many companies willing to hook you up. Got $4000 per month available? For that you can get 512K up 4M down with low contention rates. For a mere $500 per month you can get 64K guaranteed bandwidth. Actually, you can get 64K CIR for around $320 per month. Figure $5 per K, with some economy-of-scale as you go higher.
--
W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|HughesNet IA8/1410/7000 2-watt Business Internet on .98 meter fixed | Datastorm .98 XF2 2-watt on 1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19032934 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:24:15 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19032162 anon : Sadly, the false assumptions here are yours. Again, you are acting as if HughesNet's word via advertising and technical support doesn't matter. It does.

The "Fair Access Policy" is not based on our fair access to the service for which we pay good money but on their fair access to their profit and a very behind-the-times set of bandwidth thresholds they refuse to invest in upgrading. If they'd upgrade their systems, both those that provide bandwidth and those that provide customer service, they'd see a lot more happy users instead of a lot of unhappy users clamoring for any other alternative.

Here's the simple math. No happy customers = no happy billing dept. = no happy investors = no Huhgesnet]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19032162 Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:00:13 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19006866 v8rail : As usual when you ask two HN tech support persons you get five different answers..... :D

---- that's because the higher up in the footchain of HN tech support have also no clue how HN Fap works :uhh

for me it made no difference ...
--
Verizon Wireless Rev A, DW7000 with .74 dish (soon to be a birdbath)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19006866 Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:50:43 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19006034 Xtreme2damax : Which is wrong, as I do this everytime we are Fap'd and come out of it at exactly 24 Hours later regardless.

Hughesnet doesn't have a clue over have the time what they are talking about seeing as they can't give us clear answers on the workings of a Fair Access Policy which they created so we can better avoid the clutches of Fap so we better know our limits. Indian tech support is much worse with almost entirely no idea about anything only relying on pre-published scripts or books.

Luckily I haven't had to deal with Fap in over a week even though we've been excessively browsing the web on two or three different computers. Perhaps Hughes has finally heard our complaints and fixed the problems some of us were having. :D]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19006034 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 22:26:50 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19005566 kewaynco : OK. It is NOT anecdotal. I was told that by more than one person from Hughes, including those higher up the food chain than the supervisor, to wit, "DO NOT UNPLUG MODEM as that will increase the 24-hour period".]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19005566 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 21:19:00 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19003130 mickier : :o WOW!

The hnFAPMon application at SourceForge works GREAT!
It now has a little Icon in the taskbar that shows your FAP status!

KEWL KEWL KEWL!!!!!

It even takes into account the FAP-FREE zone.
--
Hughesnet/HN7000S/GC3(95W)-1360Mhz/signalstr=80/Pro Plan/0.74 Dish/WinXP/P3-3Ghz-1.5Gb Ram/IE6/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,19003130 Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:09:22 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18997330 c150L : Just a guess on unplugging the modem and extending the 24 hour penalty box. Due to a recent 24 hour uFAP penalty I had imposed on me, I was tracking dangerous storms into our area. All my one PC was doing was updating the NWS moving doplar radar. In this one particular hour, I allegedly DL 171 mb, which pushed me over the 200mb limit and I litterally had no internet for the next 24 hours.

More recent tests, I updated the same NWS radar imagery 5 time and it took me 15 minutes. The recorded usage on Hughes web page indicated about .49mb for those 5 refreshes in that 15 minute period. There was no other usage in that hour.

On that stormy day, when I allegedly DL 171mb, my system was offline at least 75% of that hour due to storms/cloud cover.

So, how could I have DL 171mb? I suspect that my numerous refresh attempts may have been received by Hughes NOC, which in turn continually tried to push back out to my modem, which was RED Dottted, due to low signal. I suspect that seeing that info was trying to be pushed to my system, it all counted towards my 171mb. That is the only possibility where 171mb could have been sent my way. I never received 171mb, but was charged for it.

In the case of someone remaining in Hughes' 24 hour P-Box,with the modem off, perhaps an undelivered file or web page(from the NOC) continues to attempt delivery, even though the modem is off. (In my case, the storm was keeping my modem off line) One turns the thing on, the transfer is completed, stopped and/or interrupted in some way, now one starts to pay his 24 hour penalty.

Just a hunch, but it's the only way I can explain downloading 171mb in that one hour, when my system was off line 75% of that same hour AND all I was doing was refreshing those little radar images.

I recently had a 1+ hour rip session with Hughes tech(?!) support and the billing department and neither of those 2 guys even attempted to explain my being FAPPED for 24 hours for this 171mb DL when my system was out of service 75% of that hour. Thus, I have to come to my own conclusion.
--
Win 2K and Win XP
DW6000 CE on AMC3 1290
Linksys BEFW11S4]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18997330 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 13:43:12 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996790 dbirdman :

said by laserfan

:

dbirdman I'd been led to believe somewhere in this thread that unplugging the modem would "reset" and extend my 24-hour FAP countdown.

The starting post of this thread said that the OP had been advised to unplug the modem (and leave it off), and had then been advised on a subsequent call that this was a bad idea that could extend FAP. Two pieces of bad tech advice, about par for the course.

There are anecdotes about leaving the modem off and having FAP extended (none, to my knowledge, about any FAP reset just from unplugging/plugging). The problem with such anecdotes is that they are countered by many other anecdotes that did not have a problem with the modem being off, and whether off or on there are cases where FAP has not been exactly 24 hours.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996790 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:25:37 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996342 laserfan : dbirdman I'd been led to believe somewhere in this thread that unplugging the modem would "reset" and extend my 24-hour FAP countdown. That is incorrect, or I misunderstood, but in any case thanks for your feedback.

I had unplugged my modem to cold-boot it mid-way thru my ordeal, but that in no way affected my FAP imprisonment--it lasted exactly 24 hours...

Free again, free again... :)
--
DW6000CEv5.4.0.20, G13/H1@127W, 1270MHz, SigTyp74, Toshiba Magnia SG10, LinksysBEFW11S4w, Airlink8portswitch, AirlinkAR410Wwireless, 10-20clients & 6+OSes]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996342 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 09:11:02 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996329 Xtreme2damax :

quote:
Apparently unplugging the modem extends my pain another 24hrs

I unplug the modem everytime we get Fap'd and we still come out of it everytime at exactly 24 hours later. So I observed that unplugging the modem does not affect anything with Fap or doesn't extend your Fap period. ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18996329 Sun, 02 Sep 2007 09:06:05 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18993554 dbirdman : If there is any advantage to unplugging the modem it is simply that there is no continued usage, which can extend FAP. The same is accomplished by unplugging the computer or router from the modem while leaving the modem on, or simply not allowing the computer to access the internet.

There is anecdotal evidence that sometimes when the NOC cannot talk to the modem it may extend FAP. Hard to be sure.

Realistically, those here "experienced with FAP" typically leave everything connected and then limit their usage to very, very, little, which is made easier to do because everything is so slow.
--
W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|HughesNet IA8/1410/7000 2-watt Business Internet on .98 meter fixed | Datastorm .98 XF2 2-watt on 1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18993554 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 17:54:19 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18993082 taylorb : wait.
the tech support for Hughes told me to unplug the modem for 24 hours when i first called them about getting throttled.
is there a different thing to do besides that? :uhh:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18993082 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 15:56:36 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18992443 dbirdman :

said by laserfan

:

1. Apparently unplugging the modem extends my pain another 24hrs

That is unlikely in the extreme. Unplugging the modem and having FAP continue has only been associated with LEAVING it off. Even that is controversial - there are enough variations on the 24-hour FAP that it is hard to say for sure if on or off actually matters.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18992443 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 13:08:26 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18992215 laserfan : kewaynco yours is an interesting story, but I'm shaking my head that you thought just cuz you are new to HN and made a mistake with it that an exception should be made on your behalf and Hughes should override the FAP for you! If they do it for one, then they have to do it for everybody. Doesn't sound reasonable to me. :p

I just did a similar bonehead thing here when I set-up Free Download Manager to DL and save radar weather images every five minutes. I thought this would be a clever way to at least have a record of the last radar before the link drops-out (which it usually does when a storm comes-up). Ya know, when you most need the Internet (in a thunderstorm), it fails you! Anyway, today I find that these images get bigger if the radar becomes complex (duh) and I hit the FAP at almost exactly 500Mb in 24 hours.

Never have I hit the New FAP before! So today the 'net is unusable, and w/o knowing I'm FAPPED I spend some long minutes troubleshooting and among the things I do is unplug the modem to reset it. So here I sit:

1. Apparently unplugging the modem extends my pain another 24hrs
2. My download speeds are only 10kbps which means "dead in the water" for at least the start of this long, rainy holiday weekend! DAMN!

It seems to me that with tho old FAP speeds dropped to 56k Modem levels, but 10k is nasty, downright ridiculous--completely, utterly unusable. Now I know first-hand what everyone here has been complaining about all summer!!! :mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18992215 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 12:09:23 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18990722 anon : So, you did your research, and yet you emailed the company claiming ignorance of the FAP.

Hundreds of people do that every single day. You let someone slide once, you get people asking to slide again, you get people who swear up and down that they couldn't have downloaded that much data, but turns out that they did.
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18990722 Sat, 01 Sep 2007 00:35:30 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18984599 dougau : I had DW for four years. Thank God in the last two weeks AT&T has finally started offering DSL in my area and now I can actually download a season of Battle Star Glactia from Itunes or Windows updates without fear of a FAP. When I canceled Hughes I did give them a big speech about the unfair FAP policy. Maybe it'll help but i doubt it. All I can say is good luck to everyone and pray for DSL or cable in your aria soon.

If you live in a aria that had Bell South phone service it seems AT&T is trying to expand DSL in those arias the old Bell South didn't cover so keep checking their web site to see if your line is DSL capable. Finally after four years it happened for me. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18984599 Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:47:40 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18983307 seaweedsl : That's great news that you got an intelligent answer from the Hughes sales director. And some of the details are interesting.

As far as FAP goes, for now, just install hpFAPmon and tell it what your account is. Watching it will teach you a lot about how FAP works.

hpFAPmon will do the calculating for you, but, so you understand, here's some details - as far as we can tell:

The 500MB or whatever is your "bucket size". It's not really a per day measurement. Each plan has a bucket size. Each plan also has a fill rate. I'm on Small office, so my fill rate is just over 100 kbps.

You start out with a full bucket.

At any given time, if you are using more bandwidth (downloading, usually) than your fill rate, then you are draining your bucket. If I am downloading at 1000 kbps, then I'm draining my bucket pretty fast. If I'm streaming music at 150kbps, I'm also draining it, but with the refill rate factored in, not much. At 150kbps it will take hours to use up my whole bucket.

As soon as you stop streaming or downloading, or any time your usage is less than your refill rate, then your bucket is refilling. So, you could download 400MB very quickly, then let your bucket refill for a couple hours and do it again. If it's done strategically, you can actually get more than your bucket limit within 24 without Fapping.

But if, at any point, you do empty your bucket, then you're FAPped. What the rules are at that point is still somewhat of a mystery, but it's advisible to keep your modem on and your surfing light for the next 12-24 hours depending on your plan. No updates!

In any case, as someone said, at the rate your posted usage shows, you should not get fapped with any plan.

Use your system as you need to, but be strategic. If you find that your bucket is not big enough or the refill rate not fast enough, go to a higher plan.

Steve
--
DW7000,2 watt .98, Small Office, G11, 1050 WHR-HP-G54/DD-WRT
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18983307 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:36:13 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18982908 kewaynco : I'll say just a few more things, which was the other point of my post:

I have found Hughes' tech support people to be much more helpful and patient than those with my previous ISP - Wildblue.

Hughes provides more helpful tools to its customers so they can see what is going on.

Maybe some day Wildblue will be as good as Hughes. But they were not, which is why I switched (my daughter had Hughes when it was DirecWay and she lives 3/10 mile from me and has never had a single real problem - she turned her nose up at us when we went with Wildblue).
--
Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18982908 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:29:37 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18982275 dbirdman :

said by kewaynco

:

someone else has said that, at less than 50% usage, I am one of the BAD people.

Well, you won't find me saying you are one of the BAD people (or abuser, which is the word that was used). In my case that would be highly hypocritical, since I probably average twice the usage that you say you are using.

My arguments here are about a sense of "entitlement" to something which you may get 99% of the time, but are never "entitled" to. You are not paying for 500MB per day. You are not entitled to any break whatsoever, from anybody, when you hit FAP, even if it's the very first time and you don't know about it. That's what this thread has been about, as simply as I can put it.

I likewise lack any entitlement, on an account that costs twice what yours does. I have about the same percentage leeway you do, between what I average and what I can get before FAP, and I've occasionally been FAPped. When I am, I tap my foot very impatiently, but blame nobody but myself and ask for no consideration from others.
--
W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|HughesNet IA8/1410/7000 2-watt Business Internet on .98 meter fixed | Datastorm .98 XF2 2-watt on 1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18982275 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 18:41:46 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18982020 Xtreme2damax : Yup that Fap can be a doosie (or however you spell it). When we first got our system hooked up, I tried to finish a download of Ubuntu Linux I started beforehand. Just so happens I hit the Fap immediately within 15 minutes or less.

I was then clueless as to why I was getting Dial-Up speeds or worse when this was advertised as broadband. Also the deceptive advertising where it is compared as a worthy competitor to Cable or DSL didn't help either.

A quick google search revealed to me the Fair Access Policy which Satellite providers impose on their subscribers. Before the new FAP went in to effect on April 16th the service was much better or usable with Fap and recovery rate wasn't as long as it is now with the service being usable again 4 hours after hitting the Fap.

Luckily and magically I haven't hit Fap in almost a week which is a miracle really. Perhaps hughes is listening and addressing the problems some of us were having.

I just schedule all of my downloads and/or Youtube videos for 3am - 6am EST, which isn't much of a problem since I am not working a job anyways. I'll also be moving out of my parents house into the city in my own apartment where Time Warner Roadrunner is available as well as other broadband ISP's so I'll be saying goodbye to hughes in a while too as well. :D

So for now until I move I just use the special hughes proxy to avoid turbo page and TCP acceleration related errors when Fap'd, learn from others as well as help others on this forum.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18982020 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:49:44 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18981509 Arion : If you look at the hughes fap patent that was posted on the forum (at least the link was) after the new fap policy they do state that the use a "soft throttling" scheme. The system assigns you a "cir" committed information rate which is determine by the plan that your on, whether or not your on a DVB-S2 gateway for the HN7000S users, your download history, (i.e. do you download close to your plan limit every day) and other variables and they mix all that together and assign you a certain CIR.

So if you download close to the max every day then they are going to throttle you back and you might not have as good speeds as someone else with the same plan that rarely downloads as much as you do. In other words the "other" guy on your transponder might get a bigger slice of the pie then you do because he doesn't usually download as much as you do.

Knowing that I upgraded to the pro package. I rarely even exceed the home limit of 175mb a day. But since I'm "allowed" 375mb a day and usually average 150mb or less I usually get my full 1000kbps download speed and even get fairly close to that at times during peak times. Whereas others with the same system and package are slower than I am because they download more per day that I usually do.

Is it a perfect system?? Is it totally fair?? No, it isn't. But the number one complaint before the new system was about the terrible download speeds during peak times. We were getting many, many threads asking if something was wrong with their system. Now, some people still have slow speeds. Some of them have poor installs, others download a lot and are soft throttled, even some have trouble on hughes end. But all in all (my opinion only from my perspective) they have achieved a workable balance for most of there customers and it seems like the other providers are still trying to find the "sweet spot" whereas Hughes is close to achieving it. Other than the terrible customer service I have few complaints lately.
--
HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram /Dual Boot WinXP Pro/LinxuS / Firefox 2.0.0.6]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18981509 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:18:56 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18981146 snowman41 : Welcome to Catch-22, Hughes style.

Sometimes, you even think you're getting what you bought.

:)

Snowman
--
Hughes HN7000s 1.0 Mbps/200 Kbps 375 MB Cdn Plan G16/99W 1230mhz .98m 2w RSL93 ACP75 DLink624 XP & VISTA]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18981146 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:22:56 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980698 kewaynco : So, essentially, you are verifying what I already know. It is not until I reach and pass my maximum that I fall under uFAP. Only, you are looking at it from a different perspective - that I might not be able to reach the maximum every day. And I am stating that my normal is 200mb-300mb per day, with less than 100mb on weekends. And someone else has said that, at less than 50% usage, I am one of the BAD people.
--
Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980698 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:06:24 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980655 Arion : To boil it all down your plan may be 175mb/day 375mb/day whatever...

However the thruput and physics of the transponder your on and the gateways don't even come close to allowing each and every user to download there maximum plan allowance per day.

Birdman has it right. What happens is that "usually" you can get your plan limit because not everyone is maxing the system out. However during times of heavy useage and if you have downloaded a fair amount your going to get soft throttled even if your not close to the daily max. On days when big MS updates and other like stuff comes out and everyone's automatic updates are running you'll find the system crawling and you might be a close to dial up speed.

Yes the plan says you can have a certain amount each day but that amount is not guaranteed in the contract. The fap and all the assorted controls try to keep the behemoth running with the minimal disruptions and downtime. What they do is guarantee you a connection but no where in the contract are you "guaranteed" a certain download/upload speed or a certain amount of MB you can download.

If you want that guarantee then you have to go to a true commercial internet service and sign on to a plan and a contract that has a guaranteed contention ratio so you have the absolute guarantee of your speed and bandwidth allocation but your going to pay many times more than what your paying right now.

At least give them a little bit of credit for developing the fapless zone that you can access with a DL manager so you don't have to stay up to the wee hours of the morning and (if the email is valid) coming up with a software revision that will give you a "real time" picture of where you standing in the system.
--
HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram /Dual Boot WinXP Pro/LinxuS / Firefox 2.0.0.6]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980655 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:59:19 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980415 dbirdman :

said by kewaynco

:

My plan states:

No. Again, you are reading what you want, where you want, and applying it as though it mattered. Your plan does not state that; an advertisement for your plan says that. It appears nowhere in the contract you agreed to when you signed up. Read the actual contract.

In the contract there is no mention of throughput except that they may limit it as they see fit, and everything related to service levels says they expressly disclaim that there are any. They say (shouting is theirs): "THE SERVICE IS MADE AVAILABLE ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS WITHOUT WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND"

That is what you are paying for.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980415 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:17:19 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980040 v8rail :

said by kewaynco

:

I would have to respectfully disagree about not paying for 500MB.

I agree .... actually when I signed up, I bought a refresh rate and payed for that data amount.

said by kewaynco

:

So, by their definition, it is only when I exceed the threshold that I drop into uFAP. What they do not define is "continuously". Maybe that is where you are getting your definition. You may be thinking this does not mean in a contiguous 24-hour day, but in any 24-hour period. So, if, say, beginning at noon, I download 300mb by midnight and then another 300mb the next day before noon, I would be in that uFAP sea.

just as a side note, there is no 24 hour period. In the above scenario you would have been stayed very clear outside the FAP.
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Verizon Wireless Rev A, DW7000 with .74 dish (soon to be a birdbath)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18980040 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:10:40 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18979954 kewaynco : I would have to respectfully disagree about not paying for 500MB.

My plan states:

Download Threshold 2 500 MB with '2' pointing to explanation "2 Download Threshold is the volume of data that can be downloaded continuously before the Fair Access Policy may restrict the download speed."

and

"The Fair Access Policy is straightforward. Based on an analysis of customer usage data, Hughes has established a download threshold for each of the HughesNet service plans that is well above the typical usage rates. Subscribers who exceed that threshold will experience reduced download speeds for approximately 24 hours."

So, by their definition, it is only when I exceed the threshold that I drop into uFAP. What they do not define is "continuously". Maybe that is where you are getting your definition. You may be thinking this does not mean in a contiguous 24-hour day, but in any 24-hour period. So, if, say, beginning at noon, I download 300mb by midnight and then another 300mb the next day before noon, I would be in that uFAP sea.

This should not happen to me as I use my internet for work and the 200-300 per day all happen predictably at certain times of the day.

Date Time From Time To Min Used Download In MB
08/29/2007 6:00 07:00 60 2.93
08/29/2007 7:00 08:00 60 10.94
08/29/2007 8:00 09:00 60 20.59
08/29/2007 9:00 10:00 60 17.89
08/29/2007 10:00 11:00 60 10.04
08/29/2007 11:00 12:00 60 7.85
08/29/2007 12:00 13:00 60 3.99
08/29/2007 13:00 14:00 59 2.77
08/29/2007 14:00 15:00 60 4.18
08/29/2007 15:00 16:00 60 3.58
08/29/2007 16:00 17:00 60 3.41
08/29/2007 17:00 18:00 60 1.87
08/29/2007 18:00 19:00 60 1.12
08/29/2007 19:00 20:00 60 15.36
08/29/2007 20:00 21:00 58 0.52
08/29/2007 23:00 00:00 59 0.48
08/30/2007 0:00 01:00 60 0.53
08/30/2007 1:00 02:00 60 0.97
08/30/2007 2:00 03:00 60 0.53
--
Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18979954 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:53:22 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18979840 dbirdman :

said by kewaynco

:

If I pay for 500mb per day

That is the issue: Start with a false assumption/assertion and everything you do/say related to it will be skewed.

You do not pay for 500MB per day.

You pay for a connection, plain and simple. That connection does not come with speed or throughput guarantees. It does have a maximum cap, after which they come down hard on you. That cap is moveable at their discretion, and they've moved it a few times.

Hughes doesn't really care what an individual uses; they care what the aggregate uses, and it is necessary to throttle the individual to control the aggregate. Whatever it takes to keep the aggregate below an average of 50MB per day per customer is the order of the day. We (and I'm a heavy user) are very lucky that the overall customer base is made up mostly of very light users, so they can cap you at 500MB, and me at 1250MB, and still keep the average under 50MB.
--
W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|HughesNet IA8/1410/7000 2-watt Business Internet on .98 meter fixed | Datastorm .98 XF2 2-watt on 1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18979840 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:35:11 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18979693 v8rail : like I said don't shoot the messenger :D

But it is simple. HN oversells massive. When all users would pull 50% of what they paid for the system would be death.
This is also why HN makes the FAP that hard and why they still don't give any details about FAP. It is just to scare the customer. :mad:

BTW I think most of Mr. Cooks answer is just BS. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18979693 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:14:19 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18978532 kewaynco : If I pay for 500mb per day, how does using 50% of it make me an abuser? My wife and I work from home for companies out of state. 200-300mb is very small usage given the circumstances.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18978532 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:41:02 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18978261 anectine17 : I agree with virtually everything written. I'm impressed with the quality of the OP's e-mail as well as the reply from Mr. Cook. It's also nice to hear that a FAP monitor of some sort is forthcoming...I'll be anxious to hear how it works.

I do have to side with Don (dbirdman) on the rigidity of the FAP, however. Ignorance (not meant to be derogatory) of the rules is no excuse for violating them. The fact that you're a new user who only uses so much per day should count for exactly what it counts for...zilch. If people thought there were even the remotest chance that they could convince someone on the other end to give them a break.....just this one time, you can bet the phones and reps would be so tied up with FAP pity calls, that nothing else would get done. The FAP needs to be hard-coded, black and white with no do-overs.....not even once. That may sound harsh, but anything less would lead to absolute anarchy, IMO. Good luck with all of it!! I'll be watching!!

Alden
--
HN7000S Small Office | G16/1210 | Static IP | .98m Dish | 2 Watt X-mit | FF 2.0 | Wired/Wireless Network w/ Modded Linksys WRT54GS v.2 w/ DD-WRT | Asus P4S800D-X/P-4 2.8ghz (OC'd to 3.2) Home-Built Desktop | Inspiron 1150 Laptop | Multi-Layered Security]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18978261 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 03:49:39 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18977956 v8rail :

said by bumwolf

:

Additional Hughes gives you more now than wildblue with the fap free window I average 30gb a month sure beats out 17 with wildblue.

the fap free window is nice and dandy when you are close to the civilization and connected to power. I'm off grid (and actually like it), but off grid you have to save power and running computers 24/7 will drain the batteries fast ;)

also I use the internet for much more then downloads, most of my payed for bandwidth I will (and have to) use during the time I'm sitting in front of the computer. ;)

yeah since HN faped me four times by mistake back in april, I never got faped again. The first couple months because I watched my traffic, the last couple months because HN messed up Satmex 5 (and the sad part, they have no clue what is going on :o. I'm sure the tech support that could have fixed this mess got outsourced to script readers in India)

and BTW kewaynco, with 200 to 300 MB a day you are an abuser in the eyes of HN (and some guys in this forum). You are surely part of the 10% that uses 90% of the usage ... don't shoot the messanger, it is just the simple sad truth :D
--
Sprint Wireless , currently just 1xRTT, but still faster then HN on Satmex5, DW7000 with .74 dish (soon to be a birdbath)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18977956 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:36:34 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18977849 bumwolf : I've often thought if a person doesn't fap that much should have a softer fap. Knock them out for four hours and if they come back and fap again they are an abuser. Then give them the 24 hour pit of death. I can say I haven't fapped in two months since the 3 hour free window. Schedule your updates for overnights an enjoy light surfing and podcast downloads during the day. I download nearly 200mb a day draining my bucket in podcasts then again I'm on pro. FAP indicator would be nice if it was a real time solution. Maybe add something that halts your modem when it reaches 20 percent. (Pipe dream) Additional Hughes gives you more now than wildblue with the fap free window I average 30gb a month sure beats out 17 with wildblue.
--
Hughesnet | DW7000 | Pro Package | Windows XP SP2 | AMD Athlon 64 3000+ | 1GB RAM | ATI Radeon 9550 256MB | 250GB HDD]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18977849 Thu, 30 Aug 2007 01:07:18 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974929 kewaynco : I, also, over an extended period of time, see only 1/10% failure rate (except at first, when the installer had to come out and redo the alignment of something he called "polarity"). I was worried that it was possible that the wind was causing my dish to shift, but I guess that is not the case since after the times I see the large failure rate, everything goes back to normal for several hours to a day. I suppose it could be a problem with the modem, but being intermittent, I suppose it would be hard to diagnose.
--
Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974929 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:26:28 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974801 Arion : There is a big problem with the system with a transmission failure like that!! It's a power supply problem or a transmitter problem. I hardly ever see over a 1/10th of 1% transmission failure rate.
--
HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram /Dual Boot WinXP Pro/LinxuS / Firefox 2.0.0.6]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974801 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 17:05:25 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974566 snowman41 : Let's hope when they put in the FAP indicator, it's like a traffic light ... Green OK, Yellow WARNING, Red FAPPED or something similar, preferably in a tray Icon or tiny stand-alone application.

If you don't have it yet, you need to download and install the FREE hnFAPmon software, which will do much the same, except it's real time. The Hughes indicator will probably be based on their delayed usage page, but we'll see.

»hnfapmon.sourceforge.net/

Snowman
--
Hughes HN7000s 1.0 Mbps/200 Kbps 375 MB Cdn Plan G16/99W 1230mhz .98m 2w RSL93 ACP75 DLink624 XP & VISTA]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974566 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:28:29 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974362 kewaynco : I actually did my homework and went with Wildblue first. One of only two affordable choices out in the boondocks.

The good thing about Wildblue FAP is it is on a rolling 30-day period with the limit being SEVENTEEN GIGABYTES for the period. That is about the same as what I got with the small business package with Hughes.

However, one unusual day of 500MB on Wildblue caused no problem. My average is between 200mb and 300mb. That is actually a FAIR access policy. Hughes needs to move to the 21st century.

However, the drawback with Wildblue was the inability to know what was going on with my system. Hughes provides the tools to monitor what is going on. And Wildblue was down for me almost as much as it was up. Had to do with my beam being out of Syracuse where the weather was always raining or snowing or someone would sneeze and I'd be down.

After one year with Wildblue, I went with Hughes based on the experience my daughter, 3/10th mile from me, had.

The other problem with Hughes is their "transmission failure policy". They say 25% is acceptable. I agree if it is 25% over a long period of time.

However, I experience transmission failures of 80% or 90% within a two or three minute period (I've kept track - I know, I should get a life). A 90% failure rate is totally unacceptable.

With Hughes, I've now run out of affordable options. And I thought Al Gore was going to make sure all us rural folk got internet comparable with what you city folk got. Instead, he is too worried about the great warm weather we now have ;-)
--
Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974362 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:55:25 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974283 Arion :

quote:
Secondly, our latest software will include a FAP indicator on our 'system control center' web page which is embedded in the modem

That's a tremendous piece of news!! That and having a real time indicator instead of a 1 hour or several hour delay. One of the biggest problems is not knowing exactly where your at in the system as regards to your limit on any given day and time.

That being said it's up to the end user to educate themselves about the fap and about the system before having it installed. Yes, I realize it's advertised as a panacea for everything and they hawk it like it's comparable to dsl or cable. Yet your entering into a 2 year contract with them. Does one get a car loan or a lease without doing their homework and reading the fine print??

I already know the answer. Many do not and they end up getting a nasty surprise quite often. Ask the sub prime mortgage people who got a low rate and didn't realize that their rates would get jacked when the mortgages reset. Many of those people didn't do their homework and read the fine print either. And that's on a house!! Let the buyer beware!! Regardless if Hughes comes through with the promised software revision and continues their fap free zone then they have gone a long way towards solving the problems they started with dumping the new policy on the subscribers with hardly any notice or warning.
--
HN7000S IA-8 1270 / 8-PSK 3/4 (14) / Router:67.142.140.95 /.74 1 watt / Pro / Pentium 3.2ghz, 1gb ram /Dual Boot WinXP Pro/LinxuS / Firefox 2.0.0.6]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974283 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:45:54 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974262 kewaynco : Yeah. But a human who was empowered to make decisions, not just follow policy, could have looked at my experience level and made a decision. If Hughes cannot trust their employees to make rational human decisions, then the employees should be fired.

Plus the fact that no one explained to me "By the way, DO NOT turn off your modem. The 24 hour period will be reset when you turn it back on." No way for me to know that. At my level of experience, it was a logical choice. I was told "Stay off the internet". Well, if the modem was not on, I COULD NOT BE on the internet, even by mistake.

So, I was without internet for 48 hours because of their mistake and because no one there had the authority to do something about their mistake.

The company has policies, not human beings who are empowered to make decisions. The sure sign of a bad company.

Maybe, if I was not being shined on, my email to the VP of Sales may engender some necessary changes. The email, in the form of a letter, was also sent to 5 other corporate executives and Customer Service.
--
Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974262 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:42:26 EDT Re: [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974181 dbirdman : It's a nice reply, but I personally feel that, if they were to actually give someone the authority to override FAP it would do damage to a necessary part of the satellite operation. If there were any chance that spending hours on the phone to get escalated to the guy with the "FAP turn-off switch" would work, there are some who would insist on going through that. Whether their fault or an accident, FAP exists to do exactly what yours did: Give you a very painful wakeup jolt when you hit it. Anything to lessen the pain damages the utility of the mechanism.
--
W2K Server|Toshiba Satellite XP Pro|HughesNet IA8/1410/7000 2-watt Business Internet on .98 meter fixed | Datastorm .98 XF2 2-watt on 1990 Blue Bird Wanderlodge "Blue Thunder" 22 tons of rolling steel!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18974181 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:31:09 EDT [DW7000] Hit Hughes FAP limit and this is what happened http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18973075 kewaynco : In the FWIW department....

I ran into the FAP this weekend by accident, after downloading updates to Itunes NPR Podcasts and not thinking about how much data it was going to be.

After conversations with help desk and supervisors, I found the email address of the sales VP for North America and emailed him the following:

I seem to be having trouble with my 30-day old experience with Hughes. I am going to be sending a nice letter to several people in your company, but thought I'd bring you up to date first.

On Sunday, August 26, I accidentally went over my 500mb/day limit (I say accidentally because I downloaded a file without knowing how big it was and had already passed the FAP limit before realizing what was going on and shutting down the download. But it was my mistake.). I noticed the problem when my Internet access began to slow down, and
then become non-existent. A quick check of the wonderful usage screen showed me the problem (but, since it is updated only once an hour instead of real time, it was over an hour before I knew I had caused the problem).

I called your wonderful technical support team only to find that no one had the authorization or ability to do anything. I thought someone might take a look at my account, see that I had it only 30 days, and that my daily download essentially was between 200mb and 300mb. I thought someone putting all those things together might have said to themselves, "We want to keep this customer and he is new to the whole thing, so, what the heck, let's cut him some slack this one time. He's learned his lesson."

Unfortunately, after a nice long conversation with Gervon, and then with Ryan Summers, no such help was forthcoming. Mr. Summers told me I could still use the Internet if I kept below 1mb per hour, but told me he could not guarantee this would not restart the 24-hour FAP period.

Not getting a guarantee, and having to use the Internet for a living, I unplugged my modem and used dial up for all day Monday, August 27.

On Monday, August 27, around the same time in the evening I spoke with Mr Summers, I called your wonderful technical support team to find out what time my FAP restriction would end. After Kelly took my information, she put me on hold for quite some time and, after coming back on line, asked if I had shut off my modem. When I said, "Yes", she informed me that was a big mistake (of course, on Sunday evening,
no one told me not to turn it off).

After she passed me to Mike Sidious, I found, once again, he had neither the authority, nor the ability to fix the problem immediately so I could once again use my Hughes Internet service. Not only that, he told me he could not talk with anyone who had the authority to fix the problem that, frankly, I believe was caused by incomplete
information being given to me on Sunday evening by Mr. Summers.

I actually find the whole thing ludicrous - first, that there is no consideration given to new users and their lack of experience, and, secondarily, that it is impossible for any human being to intervene, when necessary, in the whole FAP situation.

I have had quite a few good results when speaking with technical support, and with them very patiently explaining things to me when I don't understand them. The installation went very well, although there was a minor glitch with alignment which the installer came out and repaired in a timely manner. And that is "quite a few" because I have
had quite a bit of trouble with the signal and web-page downloads.

Hughes is light-years ahead of Wildblue (my former satellite Internet provider) in providing me, the lowly user, with tools to see what is going on with my Internet access. With Wildblue, I never knew what was going on, but it always seemed to turn out to be the weather in Syracuse.

If I would wish one thing for Hughes, it would be to give someone the authority and ability to deal with situations like mine as if I was talking with a human being who cared about his or her customer.

I have a two-year contract with Hughes and I certainly hope things get a whole lot better than they have been the past two days.

I am going to make sure my friends and relatives know the good experiences I have with Hughes, but I am definitely going to strongly emphasize the fiasco of the past two days.

Mr. Cook, I hope that you get to see this email and that it is not just read and discarded by an administrative assistant.

Thanks for your consideration.

---------------------------------

The next day, I got a reply from Mr. Cook

Ken,

Thanks for your email - I really appreciate the balance and the constructiveness of your comments.

You are making some very interesting points and I'll certainly be looking into them with my colleagues here. In the meantime, I'd like to give you a couple of immediate responses:

I'm sure you understand why we have FAP - unfortunately a 90/10 rule applies to Internet usage in the sense that 10% of Internet users consume 90% of the bandwidth and this impacts all ISPs to a greater or lesser extent. We have implemented the Fair Access Policy to ensure that all users get their fair share of the service at all times. You are right in the sense that we have made a lot of effort to communicate with our users and let them know what is going on - firstly we now have a 'FAP Free Zone' from 3am to 6am eastern during which FAP is essentially turned off. You can already take advantage of this and it is possible to set up downloaders which will schedule activity for this period. We have some of these in test right now and will be choosing one to recommend in the near future. Secondly, our latest software will include a FAP indicator on our 'system control center' web page which is embedded in the modem (type in www.systemcontrolc! enter.com or check the user manual for the IP address). This will enable real time information on FAP status - which will eliminate the 1 hour delay there currently is when you use the billing system. I believe the software is ready for roll out over the next few weeks (you don't need to do anything about it - we automatically update the software in the modem for you).

I've not heard about problems if the modem is on or off - basically when the modem is in the FAP status, you can continue to use for browsing, but obviously you don't want to start any large downloads because this may stack up and cause you more problems when you get out of FAP.

Look out for the downloader - remember that all your systems (operating system, virus checkers etc) download stuff all the time and the Microsoft ones are very big (we know - we see the impact across the whole network!). You'll be much more efficient if you time these for download during the FAP free times.

I'll look into the issue of the manual override for FAP - I've never asked the question, but its a good one! In the meantime, I'm copying Ellen Martz who is a key manager in our customer support team and she'll be in touch with your shortly.

Thanks for joining the HughesNet Customer family and I hope that you the service provides you with good support for your business.

Regards

Mike Cook
Senior Vice President
North America
Hughes Network Systems
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Satellite
Transmit Path: Satellite
Outroute: Primary
Longitude: 113 West
Receive Frequency: 1150 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate: 30 Msps
Receive Polarization: Vertical
Transmit Polarization: Horizontal
22KHz Tone: Off]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,18973075 Wed, 29 Aug 2007 12:48:16 EDT