said by nasadude :

the U.S. wireless industry is raping consumers

said by pnh102 :

How do you figure?

Wireless rates are set strictly by market forces.

said by pnh102 :

...

Making iPhones work with Verizon is not one of those responsibilities.

said by nasadude :

if the carriers weren't allowed to have closed systems, or if competition were sufficient to prevent it from happening, nobody would have to "make" the iphone work with Verizon - it would be designed to work with any carrier. In fact, I thought it already was, but it gets locked by ATT so it won't.

said by nasadude :

this is just a big do loop with no escape; I refer you back to Skippy25 ("Somethings you just can't see clearly with such a clouded vision.")

otherwise, I can see we would clearly be here forever.

said by nasadude :

this is just a big do loop with no escape; I refer you back to Skippy25 ("Somethings you just can't see clearly with such a clouded vision.")

said by Ahrenl :

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH OH.. AHHH. HHAA... HAHAH...

Best laugh I've had all day... thanks!

said by Ahrenl :

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH OH.. AHHH. HHAA... HAHAH...

Best laugh I've had all day... thanks!

said by TechieZero :

How else are they set? Even in a so called "MONOPOLY" they are subjected to market forces as if they charge too high of a price they will reach a point of diminishing returns as subscriptions will go down. The idea is to get as *many* people as possible to buy your services as these people will most likely buy additional related services.

said by TechieZero :

Spoken like an eloquent socialist.

Government has NO BUSINESS in the affairs of how the industry charges for its services. If company ABC nickels and dimes you then company YYZ comes around and does not do that...guess where the people will flock to? This in turn makes all of the companies adjust to be competitive --- this is known as the free market system.

Consumers also never *lost* any money. They made a conscious choice to agree to pay for the services they asked for. The spectrum was bought and paid for by these companies --- not simply granted. The Feds are involved for the obvious reason of not letting people step all over each other and making the spectrum useless. That is about all they should do. No more.

said by SD6 :

Theoretically, competition should make the cellular industry self-correcting. But this isn't happening - operating profits have been at about 30% for several years now. New companies cannot enter the market because spectrum is a finite resource and the existing cellular companies use it all (or own it and don't use it). The problem to be corrected is that, much like Microsoft did with their Windows monopoly, they are leveraging their monopoly over the finite spectrum supply into other markets where there is not a finite supply - into the device manufacturing market (you get a better deal if you buy a branded, locked, subsidized and crippled phone from the carrier), into the services and content market (buy your ringtones and video from them), and into software development (your software has to work with the carrier's devices).

The cellular companies have been able to extend their market power into and distort these other markets. The answer is not socialism, or extensive regulation of cellular service per se, but the return of the free market system to these other markets.

said by nasadude :

I wish it were that simple, but unfortunately there are a lot of things wrapped up in this.

clearly, you believe that govt should either not regulate any industry at all or at least very lightly. the undertone seems to be that if industry were regulated, in the absence of meaningful market competition, to be more consumer friendly this is a bad thing and the poor industry would suffer.

you say nobody is putting a gun to consumer's heads and making them buy these services as a way to justify and excuse the actions of the industry.

turn this around: let's say the government imposes consumer friendly conditions (network neutrality, carterphone, reqts to wholesale to competitors - yes, truly a fantasy) on the 700Mhz auction. I presume your position would be (just like ATT, Verizon, etc): why that's horrible! the auction won't make as much money! nobody will bid under those conditions!

guess what my response would be? nobody is holding a gun to these companies head to make them bid; if they don't like the conditions they don't have to participate.

so why can't we have govt regulate for the benefit of consumers? if the industry doesn't like it, they don't have to play - except that's not what they do, they buy legislators and get the rules changed to overwhelmingly benefit themselves at the expense of consumers.

companies are in the business of making money, not being nice to consumers - I understand that. companies are nice to consumers either because of competition or govt regulation or maybe a combination of the two. In the absence of meaningful competition, the government should step in to regulate for the benefit of consumers. That being said, I would much prefer this happen by competition rather than regulation, but sometimes the government chooses not to encourage or even allow competition and sometimes companies are very successful at rent seeking (buying legislators) and are able to distort the market for their benefit.

I would much prefer competition, but when the market won't allow it, the govt should step in to correct the situation.

said by pnh102 :

...

The idea that government should mandate that the iPhone would work with Verizon or any carrier other than AT&T is ridiculous. Impose enough regulations and we won't even have a cell phone industry anymore.

said by pnh102 :

And paying full price for a phone upfront, along with the full price for service, is better?

The current system helps customers a lot. You can get cell phone service and not pay any money for a phone.